angelfire said:

People always say 'but they can't be ets because intersteller space travel is impossible according to Einstein' etc, but maybe ufos just come from mars or the moon or venus lol – but we haven't yet discovered them.

There's so many explanations.

Just a thought.

Egads, brilliant hypothesis there. Why didn't I thunk of that?

Nosfer said:

Well, instead of jumping right to theories that run counter to what our present day knowledge of physics tells us, you COULD assume a much more conventional way of traveling the distance using, say, multi-generational travel?

Who's to say that aliens live a similar lifespan to ours? They may have found a way to turn off or at least slow the biological clock that ages them (assuming they ever had one) and may live many fold longer than us.

They may have also found shortcuts. In scifi the idea of wormholes and stargates for instance. Snakes and ladders in space LOL. It's all rather speculative.

I remember seeing some drawings from the early 20th century and what the future may be like. They couldn't even imagine. As for 50k years of advanced technology and science…. I don't think we have any idea.

Okay then let's say they are a little closer, not in this solar system as proposed above but from an inhabited planet, presently unknown of course, revolving around one of our neighbouring stars within a few light years of us. If they can acheive near light speed then the trip might be possible with technology not too far in advance of ours. 

Kind of reminds me of the old Daedalus project. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Daedalus

Or project Orion. Only 44 years to Proxima Centauri. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_%28nuclear_propulsion%29

Maybe for a couple of generations. There could be problems over that with a limited crew count and gene pool.

WaveyDavey said: "I'll risk repeating myself and say that I think all of you are staying firmly stuck in the box of our current technological limitations. I submit to you that that is no more logical than the hot air ballon space travel concepts that might have existed 200 yeas ago."

I believe that all of us understand what you are saying.  However, we ARE "firmly stuck in the box of our current technological limitations."  Frankly, there is no other choice.  We must use our current understanding of the universe in which to intelligently discuss things.  If not, we start talking gibberish or we completely change the subject.  In your previous post, you used an example of an alien race that was 500 centuries old.  It's a great example of your point in that post…and now in mine.  How can we intelligent discuss an alien race that has been around for 500 centuries?  We simply can't. 

So…we keep it in terms that we can understand and mutually talk about.  Simply saying that an alien race and their technology may be beyond our comprehension, although probably right, well…it does end the conversation pretty quickly.  And what fun is that?  

So in the spirit of our steadfast hold on to the box of our current technological limitations…I like Nosfer's multi-generational idea.  I've always had a different spin on it.  Always envisioned auto-piloted space craft with robots and such.  Once the craft nears the destination, they use a cloning system to "grow" their species to do the investigation themselves.  Once the mission is complete, they simply die off and the craft returns home (you know…acceptable losses and all…for the hive…). 

WaveyDavey said: "OK, from a certain standpoint that may seem sensible, but let's dissect what the motivations are for feeling that way. The truth is, few people, if anyone, on this planet really have any idea how likely or unlikely alien visitation is. They have no frame of reference for establishing it, and yet they do anyway, by forming the bias that says to them that it is unlikely that aliens are flying, or in some other exotic way, transporting themselves over vast stretches of space to reach Earth."

I would like to respectfully disagree.  Nothing personal…except for maybe the last bit about Friedman because that's just a bunch of crazy…

*sighs*  I'm not a fan of this argument.  The "universe is a wondrous thing and filled with possibilities that man, who knows practically nothing and can prove even less, can't possibly understand anything about it much less postulate anything about it."  I've heard it many times and on the surface, it sounds good.  Yet…

Let us use pink unicorns who speak Italian as an example.  They are not in our box of current technological limitations.  They have not been proven to exist.  Yet, by your argument, the possibility of their existence must be given equal weight with the notion that they do not exist simply because no one is qualified to make that determination.  By your argument, anything in our imaginations must be given weight as a possibility due to mankinds lack of knowledge.  That is not logical.

There must be a line in the sand.  A starting point.  As in…"this is what we know and this is what we can prove."  Aliens in space craft visiting Earth are on the other side of that line.  As of right now, we (as in man) have no other recourse but to look at that concept with a raised eyebrow and skepticism.  One can concede a possibility of something yet not get all crazy with giving that possibility much weight. 

You said: "The truth is, few people, if anyone, on this planet really have any idea how likely or unlikelyalien visitation is."  Hmmm…that's one way of putting it.  Another is "No one on this planet has provided the public with an alien body or an alien craft so at this given time, alien visitation is highly doubtful."  With that sentence, you have the possibility but not much weight.  Kind of the way it stands now…isn't it?  

And giving Friedman credit for being open-minded about UFO's?  Seriously?  That was a joke, right?  Tell me that was a joke…