The Forum [is where Ancient Roman skeptics hang out.]

Current User: Guest Login Register
Please consider registering


Lost Your Password?

Because I Am Haunted

Reply to Post
UserPost

1:55 am
May 2, 2009


Revenant

Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage"

Lead Investigator

posts 1393

There are moments that define our lives.  If only you had changed lanes like you wanted to, you may not have been hit by that car.  If you hadn't gone to that basketball game and volunteered to go get hot dogs for the gang, you may never have met your wife.  These moments come and go in a blink of an eye, yet they alter your life forever.  But every now and then, you actually realize that one of those moments is upon you.  In that split second, you are aware that your next decision can change everything for you.  This story is about one of the moments.  And, of course, the paranormal.

It was my freshman year at Michigan State University.  With 45,000 students, you get to meet a great variety of people.  There was one girl who stood out to me.  I shall call her Cassie (not her real name).  She was pretty, striking really.  Smart, articulate, funny.  But that isn't what interested me about her (I had a girlfriend at the time and I'm not the cheating sort).  She had a certain…darkness about her.  I couldn't really put my finger on it.  She lived in my dorm and on my floor (guys lived on west side, girls east).

One night, a few of us were in the "common study area."  One by one, people began to leave until only Cassie and I remained.  She asked me if I was leaving soon.  I told her no, not for at least a couple of more hours.  She said "good" and continued to study.

Another hour went by.  I was working on a fluid dynamics problem that was literally tearing my brain apart.  I looked over at Cassie just to clear my head and caught her just staring at the door.  In that instant, I realized something about her.  I had never seen her alone.  Not in the common area, not in the cafeteria, not even walking to class.  Her roommate left every weekend.  So every weekend, various young men would escort Cassie to her room…which gave her quite a nasty reputation.  It dawned on me, she's afraid to be alone.

So, I just asked her "Why are you afraid of being alone?"

She looked at me like I had hit her with a baseball bat.  She just stared at me for about two minutes.  Two minutes of someone that you don't know very well just staring at you is a long time.  She finally spoke and said "Because I am haunted."

THIS…is the moment that I was talking about.  I can read people pretty well.  Really well.  My friends call me the human lie detector test.  I realized that she wasn't joking.  She wasn't just being weird or coy or "different."  She knew I had seen past her guard, called her out, and she was responding honestly.  So…my two choices.  Walk away or talk to her.  If I walk away, I wouldn't have to deal with anything that I had no business dealing with.  If I talk to her, I get involved.  I chose.  I talked to her.

She told me about her parents.  When she was a little girl, a man entered her home.  Taking a long knife from the kitchen, he brutally slayed her parents.  She hid behind a couch while it happened.  She stayed behind the couch as the man searched the home, presumably for her.  He finally left.  (I did verify this story at the MSU library.)  The man was caught, convicted, jailed, and was himself killed in jail (also confirmed this.)

Since that time, she said that she could sometimes see her parents.  She said she also felt the presence of the man who murdered them as well and he was still searching for her.

What does a twenty year old kid say to that?  I decided to ask what her parent were like.  Get her to talk about happier memories.  She began telling me about her mom.  She was laughing a bit when she told a story about how much trouble she got into for using her mom's favorite perfume.  We both laughed…and suddenly heard a snapping noise.  We both instantly smelled perfume.  Cassie's purse was on a chair, about three feet from both of us.  We looked inside…her perfume bottle had cracked and spilled out within the purse.  She laughed and said "See?  She's still mad over that."

Swear to god…I almost had a "DUDE, RUN!" moment there.  How do I explain that?  I'm three feet away and right on cue…no strings, no smoke, no mirrors…just a cracked bottle of perfume.

After that, we "sort" of became friends.  Some days she would talk, other days…not so much.  I had talked her into getting some professional help, but she said it wasn't working out all that well.  The school year ended, we drifted apart, both moved off campus and rarely saw each other.  We would talk on the phone though every now and then.  

A couple of years past.  I picked up the school paper and saw that she had taken her own life.  It was so sad.  So smart and so much to offer.  Even to this day, I still think the world is a little less bright without her in it.  A little less colorful.

When you go through something like this, you're supposed to learn something.  What did I learn?  It's something that we talk about on this forum all the time actually.  Whether you believe or not, just try to be patient and tolerant of those around you.  Did I believe everything that she said?  Even then, I knew that maybe it was just important to listen and not try to solve it.  Even if I wanted to, I couldn't have solved it.  Could I have done more?  I don't know.  I wish I could have.  And lastly…do I believe that she was haunted?  I don't know what ghosts are.  I don't know what ghosts can do.  But I believed Cassie…and always will…      

"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer

9:47 am
May 2, 2009


Learjet

Australia

Lead Investigator

posts 1122

That's very sad. It sounds like you did all you could. With your kindness maybe you even extended her life to some extent.

I can't imagine being in her situation but it must have been overwhelming.

OD'd on EMF

12:59 pm
May 2, 2009


Hannah

Texas

Lead Investigator

posts 361

What trust Cassie placed in you that night.  I have no doubt that it was a story she rarely shared.  You did all any human could do.  Most importantly, you believed her. 

Something was going on. . .what?, well, like you said, what is a ghost, what is a haunting?  We don't know.  Was what she was seeing a product of a child's mind that was terrified beyond its limits that night?  The broken perfume bottle a poltergeist-type of thing produced unwittingly by her?

So many questions, and no definitive answers.  I would think that her parents appearing to her would have been a comforting thing; the broken perfume bottle as an affirmation of her mother's love.   The 'bad' guy still looking for her, to me, would be a issue of some  sort like a post-traumatic stress disorder.  I separated the two: one a positive and one a negative, one psychological another paranormal, but is that logical?  I don't know. 

Thank you for sharing. . .I will be thinking about this for a long time. 

12:57 am
May 3, 2009


Revenant

Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage"

Lead Investigator

posts 1393

Thanks for the kind words.  I wasn't sure about writing the story.  I've written over 200 posts on the forums and finally worked up the courage to share that.  I guess it was the Paranormal State episode of "I Am Six" that prompted me to write it.  Cassie and Laura (from the show) really having nothing in common, except for one thing.  I can see Laura going down that same self-destructive path.  I think…no, I know that's why I've come out so forcefully against that one particular show (actually now 2 shows…).

Hannah- Yes, I've asked myself many of those same questions.  Back then, and I'm aging myself now, there were really no personal computers yet.  No web.  No one to talk to about it (like you guys).  All the books at the time were simply trashy "ooo…ghosts are spooky" kinds of things.  So, I was on my own.  I had a terribly troubled friend, who for some unknown reason…picked me, to help her with her problems.  Give me a math problem, I can solve it.  Give me an utterly traumatic childhood experience and compound it with the paranormal…I've got a bunch of nothin'. 

There was a ton of things that I wanted to add to the post, but the post was already pretty long and my aim wasn't to write a book.  There were a couple of other "strange" events, but nothing like the perfume bottle.  For years, I've racked my brain over how that bottle could have split into three separate segments…and on cue no less.  I even kept the pieces of the bottle and examined them under a couple of different microscopes.  Took samples of the glass and the perfume itself and examined those too.  I found nothing out of the ordinary.  Hmmm…I guess I was ahead of my time in using scientific methodology when it comes to the paranormal.  Never even considered that… Laughing   

Well, anyway…I hope no one was offended by some of the topics brought up in the post.  I know they were rather "heavy."  It was not my intention to "shock" anyone.  I just wanted to tell her story as it was.   

"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer

3:48 am
May 3, 2009


brookelloyd

Investigator in Training

posts 2

Thanks for sharing.  I'm sorry you lost your friend.  I can't begin to imagine what she must have been going through.  It sounds like your ability to be someone she could trust was invaluable.

Someone close to me has similar occurrences and your story helped me to understand that sometimes looking for the truth in a situation isn't always what we need to be doing.  Sometime we just need to trust the person who has chosen to confide in us.  I had no reason not to believe the person that confided in me, but I found myself questioning everything he told me.  I didn't want to be taken for a fool.  My preoccupation with that came before trusting someone I love very much.  I'm going to think of this story next time he chooses to talk about his experiences.

Thanks

12:13 pm
May 3, 2009


alicat

Lead Investigator

posts 1215

Revenant,

Thank you for sharing that personal story.  I feel the same way as Learjet.  You did all you could do and your kindness may have extended her life.

Sometimes in life you find that kindred spirit in someone and when you do, you feel like you can trust and confide the most difficult situations and feelings inside of you.  At 20 years old, that was a huge burden for you but she sensed you were that kindred spirit who obviously offered the compassion, refuge and understanding she needed to tell her story.  I can't even imagine going through what she did and at such a young age.  What a horrible burden for someone to carry around for all those years.  The fact that you kept in touch is wonderful and I suspect Cassie's happiest moments were knowing you believed in her and still do.

Like Hannah, I will be thinking about this story for some time to come.

2:37 pm
May 3, 2009


Revenant

Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage"

Lead Investigator

posts 1393

brookelloyd said:

Someone close to me has similar occurrences and your story helped me to understand that sometimes looking for the truth in a situation isn't always what we need to be doing.  Sometime we just need to trust the person who has chosen to confide in us.  I had no reason not to believe the person that confided in me, but I found myself questioning everything he told me.  I didn't want to be taken for a fool.  My preoccupation with that came before trusting someone I love very much.  I'm going to think of this story next time he chooses to talk about his experiences.


Well, yes and no. 

Yes, someone has come to you for help.  Whether the paranormal aspect is the true reason or a symptom of something else, it's hard to tell.  The main thing is that the first step has been taken.  Someone who needs and wants help is asking for help.  That, on itself, should always come first.  However…

No, no one wants to be taken for a fool.  You have to remember the qualities in which you possess that led that person to confide in you in the first place.  Cassie knew I was studying science.  She knew I wasn't likely to "fall" for "spooky tales" and would instead use logic, reasoning, and skepticism to understand particular events in her life.  She also knew that her normal "tricks" wouldn't work on me.  Like getting away with something just based on the fact that she was pretty.  Or that she was clever.  I was in a rock solid relationship at the time and…I'm a little clever myself.  Wink 

So, like I said, yes and no.  You want to help someone that you care about.  That's human nature.  But to do so, don't lose track of who you are and why that person chose you to help them.

Alicat- Thanks, I appreciate what you said.

"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer

2:56 pm
May 3, 2009


alicat

Lead Investigator

posts 1215

@ Revenant – I only speak the truth.  It was very evident you shared a special bond of kinship/frienship with Cassie.  Again, thank you for sharing with us.

3:57 pm
May 3, 2009


Hannah

Texas

Lead Investigator

posts 361

Revenant, again thank you for sharing, and no, I do not think too "heavy" for this forum.  Cassie's story is sad, but also very, very thought provoking. 

In that time period (hey, I am familiar- writing in Fortran.  I am old as dirt, just ask my kids) there was not that much out there, no parapsychologists, nothing to the extent that is available today.  Thinking about it, I wonder if she was able to work with someone in therapy that was willing to accept the possibilty of the paranormal. 

The perfume bottle: I was assuming was just cracked, but three pieces.  Not questioning it happened, but the glass is thick on perfume bottles.  The force it would take to break it.  The story she chose to tell. 

11:29 pm
May 3, 2009


Revenant

Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage"

Lead Investigator

posts 1393

Hannah said:

The perfume bottle: I was assuming was just cracked, but three pieces.  Not questioning it happened, but the glass is thick on perfume bottles.  The force it would take to break it.  The story she chose to tell. 


When I first saw the bottle, I thought it had only cracked.  The bottle itself was "square-ish."  I carefully picked it up by the top and two small shards of glass fell from it, thus three separate segments.  The two small shards were on opposite sides of a corner. 

So, if I were to recreate it, best guess, I'd take a small hammer and give a corner a good tap.  Yet, I even question that.

Upon examining the main bottle piece, I couldn't find any flaws in the glass that would point to stress fractures.  Of course, this proves nothing.  The bottle may have had only two stress fractures…the two fallen shards that had already fallen off.  But the way the shards came off the bottle was curious too.  Smooth.  Not very jagged at all.  Even if there was a point of impact upon the bottle, I'm not entirely sure as to how they came off from the main bottle.  I can see one shard on one side of the square-ish bottle, but not the other shard from its position on the other side.  Then again, I wasn't all that into fracture mechanics back then and the only professor that I knew who was…well, I wasn't about to ask that guy for anything (yes…he was one of those prof's… Undecided ).

I wish I had the technology of today to re-examine the bottle segments.  I've seen plenty of weird things in labs in my time.  Results I never expected.  Experiments gone bad.  Even a couple of explosions (yeah, don't ask Laughing ).  It just makes me laugh and kind of embarrasses me that a little bottle of perfume has absolutely stumped me.  I have no workable theory on how that bottle broke.   

"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer

1:24 pm
May 4, 2009


Mary

Pondering what you're pondering

Investigator

posts 147

This is a very sad story.  That poor girl.  I couldn't imagine trying to deal with an experience as awful and traumatic as that.  Ultimately, in the end, the murderer got all three of his victims, didn't he?  It just took longer to murder the child.  (Suicide or not, I do blame her death on the murderer, since he put her in such a terrible mental state that she couldn't bear to live)

"Quando omni flunkus moritati" ("When all else fails, play dead") – Possum Lodge motto. Jason and Grant should adopt it as their own.

2:17 pm
May 4, 2009


Hannah

Texas

Lead Investigator

posts 361

Mary said:

This is a very sad story.  That poor girl.  I couldn't imagine trying to deal with an experience as awful and traumatic as that.  Ultimately, in the end, the murderer got all three of his victims, didn't he?  It just took longer to murder the child.  (Suicide or not, I do blame her death on the murderer, since he put her in such a terrible mental state that she couldn't bear to live)


I had the same thought, Mary. 

9:10 pm
May 16, 2009


Oubliette

Igloo in NJ

Lead Investigator

posts 574

I have the goosebumps.  What can one say?  This story has touched my heart in a way I can't really describe. 

There was once a man on a documentary about ghosts who said "There are no haunted houses, just haunted people".  I don't know if I agree with him about haunted houses, but I do believe in haunted people.  People who have gone through extreme events that we can only try to understand–what does something like this do to a person's mind?  Does it give them an ability beyond our understanding? 

My rational side wants to think that the trauma made her believe she could see her parents and the killer, and also that there was some kind of communication going on.  Perhaps it was her mind's way of coping with something that is so terrible.  But then the other side of me kicks in–how can one explain the perfume bottle and the scent?  Coincidence?  Perhaps, and yet….

Revenant, thank you so much for sharing something that most people will never, ever experience in a lifetime.  This experience was special and I am sure you will remember it always.  At least we can hope that she has finally found peace.

If 50 million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.
Anatole France

4:21 am
May 17, 2009


MissMissy

LA County, CA

Investigator

posts 51

Again Revenant you astound with your posts. I too find myself passionate about the "Six" episodes. Maybe what people like Cassie and Laura need aren't crucifixes, excorsim or Chip Coffey having to squeez in another molestation assertion. What people like these need are someone to compassionately study their allegations of hauntings. I think that properly done if there are no "demons" to speak then in a gentle way steer someone like Laura away from such things. If there is validity to the story than help her deal with it.

I understand these girls to a certain extent for reasons I rather keep to myself. Someone like Laura needs someone like Revenanat or one of us to help her not Scooby Doo and the Gang in Mystery van driving up to  make things worse. Just my two cents.

If the truth is out there than why haven't I found it yet?

12:42 pm
May 17, 2009


Oubliette

Igloo in NJ

Lead Investigator

posts 574

MissMissy:  It goes deeper than that.  Ryan Buell does not have a license as a psycho-therapist, or anything close.  He has no business doing what he is doing.  I have written A & E about this show and the fact that it needs to be taken off the air, as they did with Chip Coffey's kidfest "Psychic Kids".  And even so, one can still find that show's reruns on other A & E owned channels.

Can you imagine what Buell & his Magical Mystery Tour would have done with "Cassie"?  The abuse of people in pain is something I cannot stand for.  Even laying aside all the rumors circulating about Ryan, Chip etc., just taking what they do for the sake of $$$ and entertainment should be illegal.

I've got to stop writing about PRS or it will end up as a 3 page rant.  I've been against that show from the first episode, and the arrogance of not only airing Laura's first episode but daring to go back and continue this mistreatment is beyond belief.  That's why my initial post on the subject was so full of anger.

If 50 million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.
Anatole France

1:14 pm
May 17, 2009


Hannah

Texas

Lead Investigator

posts 361

Oubliette said:

MissMissy:  It goes deeper than that.  Ryan Buell does not have a license as a psycho-therapist, or anything close.  He has no business doing what he is doing.  I have written A & E about this show and the fact that it needs to be taken off the air, as they did with Chip Coffey's kidfest "Psychic Kids".  And even so, one can still find that show's reruns on other A & E owned channels.

Can you imagine what Buell & his Magical Mystery Tour would have done with "Cassie"?  The abuse of people in pain is something I cannot stand for.  Even laying aside all the rumors circulating about Ryan, Chip etc., just taking what they do for the sake of $$$ and entertainment should be illegal.

I've got to stop writing about PRS or it will end up as a 3 page rant.  I've been against that show from the first episode, and the arrogance of not only airing Laura's first episode but daring to go back and continue this mistreatment is beyond belief.  That's why my initial post on the subject was so full of anger.


Unfortunately, Psychic Kids is now filming a second season.  Chip currently filming and announced via Twitter: "We are taping an episode of Psychic Kids this weekend in the Poconos near the NY/PA border."

I will add this: Chip Coffey's educational background has been questioned.  He claims to have a bachelor's degree from Elmira College and a Master's in Counseling.  Funny, but Elmira College does not offer a Masters in Counseling and never has.  Now, it is possible that he received his Masters elsewhere.  Chip will not divulge where he received it. 

chipcoffey said…

This time, I will not post anonymously.

"I refuse to disclose personal or professional information that has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the work that I do. No amount of petty badgering or harassment will make me choose to do otherwise."
http://www.theskeptoidzone.com/2008/07/skeptics-attack-coffee.html 

9:02 pm
May 17, 2009


MissMissy

LA County, CA

Investigator

posts 51

Ah the Scooby and the Gang are back for more fun next season. God help us and those poor children. If these kids really and truly are "gifted" this isn't a way to help them. They might as well post an "I am a freak" sign to them so when they go home the bullies won't have any trouble finding them!

I REALLY HATE THESE LEECHES!!!! Yell

If the truth is out there than why haven't I found it yet?

9:38 pm
May 17, 2009


Revenant

Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage"

Lead Investigator

posts 1393

Oubliette said:

Can you imagine what Buell & his Magical Mystery Tour would have done with "Cassie"?  The abuse of people in pain is something I cannot stand for.  Even laying aside all the rumors circulating about Ryan, Chip etc., just taking what they do for the sake of $$$ and entertainment should be illegal.


Hmmm…interesting question.  If somehow that time period, with Cassie and I, co-existed with this timeline and the PS team came to MSU to investigate Cassie?  Laughing

Trust this, believe in this, know this for an absolute constant in the universe…I wouldn't let Ryan, Chip and the rest of the gang within 100 yards of her.  They would literally be in very real physical danger.  The dorm that I lived in at that time also housed many of the freshmen and sophomore football players.  PS is from Penn State (who in the Big Ten conference now…same conference as MSU, thus we are rivals).  All I would have to do is spread the word that a few people from Penn State are here to hurt one of our girls.  It would not be pretty.  They want to be Spiritual Warriors?  Cool.  Meet the Michigan State Spartan football team.  And this was before all the steroid testing too, so some of those boys were very big, very mean, and just a touch crazy.  Um, yeah…good luck with that…

And thanks to Oubliette and MissMissy for the kind words.  I appreciate it very much.

"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer

12:46 am
May 18, 2009


MissMissy

LA County, CA

Investigator

posts 51

I should send my kid to MSU sounds like the only thing that gets out of hand there are the keggers! And your welcome. Good thought provoking thread I must say.

If the truth is out there than why haven't I found it yet?

Reply to Post


Reply to Topic:
Because I Am Haunted

Guest Name (Required):

Guest Email (Required):

Smileys
Confused Cool Cry Embarassed Frown Kiss Laugh Smile Surprised Wink Yell
Post New Reply

Guest URL (required)

Math Required!
What is the sum of:
7 + 7
   



Permalink Print
Copyright 2010 SkepticalViewer.com - The Ghost Hunters Fansite for Skeptics