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10:50 pm April 30, 2009
| Revenant
| | Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage" | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1393 |
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On Monday night, I watched the new episode of PS. I think it was called "The Tillie Pierce House; Ghost of Gettysburg, PA." Since there's been some mention of Gettysburg on the forums, I thought I'd watch. And…I wasn't disappointed. I'll hit a couple of highlights and then get to the…paranormal event.
First, Chip Coffey almost doubled over in pain due to some shooting pain in his stomach or side. I suppose he "felt" the pain of a spirit. (I haven't seen such bad acting since "Taxi " with Jimmy Fallon.)
Then Ryan and the gang got to play dress-up and "re-enact" a moment from the Civil War. (Again, the Jimmy Fallon "Taxi" reference is applied.)
And then…true evidence of the paranormal.
(I must first apologize for not providing a Youtube clip to show. I've been waiting to post until I found a clip, but…hopefully down the road, one will show up. Thanks in advance to anyone who can provide one.)
So…Chad is standing in the bathroom doorway, hears a noise, turns around and the door pushes up against the wall. He claims he didn't touch the door, yet, he was standing right by it when it moved. Whatever, no need to argue because it gets so much better.
Now, when he made this move he was also holding a handheld camera…the camera was pointed at the sink. A soap dispenser is on the right side of the sink (to the right of the faucet). Now, this places him directly in front of the sink with the doorway on the right side. He was shown earlier holding the camera with his right hand. He pans out to his right, out of the doorway, hears a noise behind him, pans back around, and the soap dispenser is now on the left side of the sink (left of the faucet).
Finally…we have undisputed proof of the paranormal.
Oh…wait…I am going to dispute it.
One possible explanation: He is standing in front of the sink. The camera is in his right hand and he pans to his right. With his left hand, he can move the soap dispenser from the right side to the left side. Since he's doing this in the dark, the dispenser hits the left edge of the sink as he's placing it, thus making a sound…giving him the excuse to turn back around to see that the soap dispenser has now magically moved from the right side to the left. You know…it's just a theory… 
I haven't seen this kind of thing since Grant from GH and the mysterious moving picture frame at the Cashtown Inn…shockingly near Gettysburg:
http://www.skepticalviewer.com/2008/03/27/gh-cashtown-inn/
Hmmm…maybe there's something in the water in Gettysburg that makes people who hold cameras do highly questionable things…
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"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
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11:30 pm April 30, 2009
| Learjet
| | Australia | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1073 |
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1:29 am May 1, 2009
| Bobarino
| | Valencia, CA | |
| Investigator | posts 181 |
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Hmmm
Well, I didn't watch the episode, but watch the (Learjet) clip. Is it possible one of the shots was looking in a mirror? I mean they were in a bathroom, yes?
Just an idea
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I've found that being AWESOME is a full time job…
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6:28 am May 1, 2009
| blinddog
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| Moderator
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Absolutely some the most shocking video evidence ever recorded. Puhleeez.
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7:37 pm May 1, 2009
| ghostgirl74
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| Investigator in Training | posts 17 |
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First, let me start off by saying that I believe 100% without a doubt in my mind that Gettysburg is a very haunted place. I have visited the town at least a hundred times, but only once did I ever have a paranormal experience there. Still, if you ask anyone who lives or visits there, at least half the people you talk to will tell you that they, too, have had a paranormal experience.
That being said, I have seen numuerous "ghost hunting" shows that were filmed in Gettysburg, and every single one of them has had "something" happen. Now, I'm not saying that's not possible, but it's not very probable. Like I said, I myself have only had one experience out of all the times I've visited the town, but these people get knocks, taps, "phantom pains" (Chip!), and ghostly voices five minutes after they walk into the building(s). Nope, I'm not buying it!
I think the thing that irked me the most about this episode was when Ryan told the couple who own the house that he and his team were developing a theory that the ghosts in the town are more apt to be attracted to modern people in period dress. This is NOT a new theory, and it certainly isn't THEIRS! This is a theory that's been around for quite sometime, and I have read it in numerous books as well! In fact, I think it is these sorts of things that bother me most about PS, although there are quite a few things that bother me about PS! Here are these young KIDS "counseling" ADULTS on things they know nothing about, and then take an idea and make it their own!
Sorry about the rant, but Gettysburg and its ghostly inhabitants (as well as its human inhabitants) are things I hold very dear to my heart, and I LOATH to see them being made a mockery for entertainment! Although I will say this: At least PS has one up on Most Haunted, and they knew the difference between the Civil War and the Revolutionary War!
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2:12 am May 2, 2009
| MissMissy
| | LA County, CA | |
| Investigator | posts 51 |
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Didn't see Gettysburg but it sounds like they're at it again. I agree with ghost girl in that all these shows have the same m.o. in that they seem to find things too quickly. I'm not versed on Gettysburg but I take it it requires a little more then a brief walk through to have an experience. I wish these shows would give the statistics on how many of their so called cases turn out be natural or man made occurences.
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If the truth is out there than why haven't I found it yet?
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10:10 am May 2, 2009
| alicat
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| Lead Investigator | posts 1214 |
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Gettysburg. Like MissMissy, I too agree with ghostgirl74 only in the fact that they find things too quickly and everytime. I and many of my friends have visited often since we are only 2-3 hours away and it is a beautiful Park. The first time I went I was about 8 or 9 (many, many years ago) when there was absolutely no talk about ghosts or paranormal activities. Yet, my friends tend to go more than I these days and every time they go, they decide to check out the houses and tours to see if anything is different. And, everytime these "haunted" places or on the ghost tours guarantee something will happen. Guess what? It does. I have a problem with a place or tour that sells tickets to this type of experience where people, for example, see chains move and chairs rock every time. However, the ghost tours and haunted places still sell out because people want to believe. I'm sorry but sometimes I can't believe that even some of these friends, who tell me they are highly educated, actually are so suckered in by this stuff and I've told them so. When they ask me why I don't believe it it, I explain that any place like this that takes money, tells you what has been "reported" and then produces exactly that, is flat out in it for the money. It's like going to the fun house at the fair. The structure you see is painted on the outside to tell you what you are going to experience and when you are sold your ticket you are told you will see and hear scary things. "Can you take it?" Darn if they aren't right! Wonder how they know that?
While I'm not saying ghostgirl74 has not had a paranormal experience there, I believe her to be honest and that she believes she truly did have an experience, but what everyone has to remember is that because of this history of death on the battlefield and Park, Gettysburg has become the PA paranormal mecca of sorts and a lot of people derive a living from that fact. It provides a source of income all year long for the residents there because people are coming and spending money in every aspect such as tours, food, clothing, novelties, rooms, etc. Why would anyone in their right mind want to discourage it? It's very smart business, with free advertising (local and national) and an income for a town that needed an economic shot in the arm as the Park was nice but not pulling it in for them. New outlet centers started sprouting around the area to bring people in on bus tours, etc. They saw the success of the old outlets less than an hour away in the Reading and newer ones in the Lancaster area nearby (again, less than an hour away) and for that purpose, combined with the ghost hunting experience, ratcheted up the paranormal experiences as it was not just based around Halloween anymore like the "haunted house" we all had in our hometowns one month during the year. In other words, they are cashing in on what people want and giving them the experience they want to believe in.
Again, I do believe ghostgirl74 believes in her experience and that's okay with me. But, places that perform on command, I do not. It's up to everyone to make up their own mind and, if they want to shop the outlets, have fun!
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10:16 am May 2, 2009
| ghostgirl74
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| Investigator in Training | posts 17 |
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Thanks, alicat! That was exactly the point I was trying to get across, although I was very pressed for time, and actually too angry at PS and others like them to express my opinions properly. LOL!
Anyway, you say you are only 2-3 hours away from Gettysburg. I am too. I'm in NJ. Where are you?
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10:41 am May 2, 2009
| alicat
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| Lead Investigator | posts 1214 |
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ghostgirl74, you are welcome. I understood your position as it has been the topic of discussion with my friends that we have been having for some time now. I'm afraid I actually stopped one dinner conversation in its tracks one night at a very nice restaurant in the area. I guess that was the best place because it didn't give rise to any loud comments but oh those looks! Eventually, things got back to normal and I drank the wine not the kool aid.
I sent you a pm as to your question so be on the look out for it. 
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2:26 pm May 5, 2009
| Revenant
| | Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage" | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1393 |
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First, a thanks to Learjet for the video clip. I was looking for something smaller, but that will do.
Now, I've been thinking about the moving soap dispenser. In fact, I've been thinking about stories of moving objects (either seen on TV or personal experiences on websites, forums, books, etc) for some time now. I've come to only one conclusion…I'm not entirely sure if their evidence is proving what they think it is.
The assumption in the paranormal/ghost-hunting community is that there are "intelligent" hauntings. Alright, let's go with that for a moment. They also say that these ghosts are trying to communicate with the living by moving objects, EVP's, simply appearing, etc. Alright, let's go with that too.
What exactly does moving a soap dispenser from the right side of the sink to the left of the sink communicate? Beyond the many jokes, is there an answer? And actually, for once, I'm being serious.
I mean, here's a "professional" paranormal investigatory team presenting this event as evidence of the paranormal. Even if we accept it as such…what does it actually prove? That random ghosts are moving random objects in a random fashion? That's an awful lot of randomness in that last sentence.
Think about it…if objects moved in a random fashion like the soap dispenser or the brick from GA (considering the fact that brick did not fly in their direction, it flew in a random direction) then wouldn't it stand to reason that this may be an unexplained natural occurrence as opposed to the theory of a ghost moving it?
Kind of weird to think about, isn't it? That a "ghost-hunting" team that is providing evidence of ghosts might actually be providing proof of their non-existence.
(And for the record…just having some fun here. )
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"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
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10:10 am May 6, 2009
| Hannah
| | Texas | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 361 |
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The theory is they move stuff to get our attention. Then, what? An item moves, then no message? I did not see the show, so did he try to get an EVP to receive the "message"? It would make sense if that is the theory. Another is playful ghosts: they get bored hanging around and like to freak the living out.
Random movement to inanimate objects just might happen as a random anomaly, no paranormal involvement. Definitely something that could be tested with scientific guidelines, yes?
MissMissy, Alicat, ghostgirl74, in agreement on Gettysburg. Still want to spend a week or more there, especially Devil's Den, the triangular field and the wheatfield (Pickett's Charge). Thanks for the heads up on avoiding places that always have stuff happen. I want to go mainly because I had ancestors that fought there.
Revenant: "Kind of weird to think about, isn't it? That a "ghost-hunting" team that is providing evidence of ghosts might actually be providing proof of their non-existence."
Maybe not all ghosts? There are so many types. Crisis apparitions are fascinating.
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10:45 am May 6, 2009
| Nosfer
| | Rotaredom | |
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In theory a given object could do something like that just by chance. Imagine if all the atoms in an object somehow managed to do something all at the same time in the same way as far as their movement, alignment, etc. Problem with that "theory" is that since things like this happen quite often, the odds would have to be fairly high (relatively speaking) that this movement would occur like this. Given the sheer number of atoms, I'd say the odds would be far lower (approaching zero, in fact), thus we can rule out random chance.
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Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.
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3:04 pm May 6, 2009
| Revenant
| | Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage" | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1393 |
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Nosfer said:
In theory a given object could do something like that just by chance. Imagine if all the atoms in an object somehow managed to do something all at the same time in the same way as far as their movement, alignment, etc. Problem with that "theory" is that since things like this happen quite often, the odds would have to be fairly high (relatively speaking) that this movement would occur like this. Given the sheer number of atoms, I'd say the odds would be far lower (approaching zero, in fact), thus we can rule out random chance.
What?!? I totatlly disagree! I…..no…just kidding. 
Just playing the "what if" game using known, and still unproven, paranormal theories. The "intelligent haunting (ghost with…consciousness I guess) moving objects about" simply fascinates me. I always place myself in the position of the ghost. Instead of using my "energy" to pick up a pen (which is so much lighter) and write down the name of my killer or a couple words to a loved one…I'm moving soap dispensers and tossing bricks. I just have such a tough time with that concept…
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"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
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4:58 pm May 6, 2009
| Nosfer
| | Rotaredom | |
| Moderator
| posts 2866 |
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One thing to consider, though, regarding moving an object or writing something helpful down is that the ghost of a human may have the same traits as a human. Come on, think about it…you're haunting a place and some bunch of Ryans come through. Can you honestly tell me you're not going to have a little fun with them :) I'd be scooping up 3-10 pound bricks like you wouldn't believe!
I just hope I'm haunting the manor house when Yvette says to "throw something"!!
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Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.
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5:34 pm May 6, 2009
| alicat
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| Lead Investigator | posts 1214 |
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Agreed Nosfer. Ooh la la! 
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10:51 pm May 6, 2009
| Revenant
| | Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage" | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1393 |
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Nosfer said:
Can you honestly tell me you're not going to have a little fun with them I'd be scooping up 3-10 pound bricks like you wouldn't believe!
I just hope I'm haunting the manor house when Yvette says to "throw something"!!
I would go after Zac from GA. He would wish that I would throw bricks at him…
Even as a human, I don't care to be provoked. So as a ghost, if my weight lifting ability is capped at 3-10 pounds and I can materialize and dematerialize at will…then moving around a couple of vital organs should be no problem. Yes…I would be a very bad ghost. Come to the house that I'm haunting and you better leave Chip and the EMF meters at home and instead bring a couple of paramedics and a defibrillator.
Yes…a very bad ghost indeed… 
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"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
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1:44 am May 9, 2009
| MissMissy
| | LA County, CA | |
| Investigator | posts 51 |
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Revenant said:
I would go after Zac from GA. He would wish that I would throw bricks at him…
Even as a human, I don't care to be provoked. So as a ghost, if my weight lifting ability is capped at 3-10 pounds and I can materialize and dematerialize at will…then moving around a couple of vital organs should be no problem. Yes…I would be a very bad ghost. Come to the house that I'm haunting and you better leave Chip and the EMF meters at home and instead bring a couple of paramedics and a defibrillator.
Yes…a very bad ghost indeed… 
After almost falling over laughing I have finally composed myself enough to agree with you. I would atack winnies that wear skin tight shirts for the camera and yell out to me to f*** with them! Forget the damn thing flying across the room I would chuck it at his fat head!
If spirit contact were possible how about figuring out how to send them going to where ever it is we go and if that's not possible then stay away from these places. I'm sorry but anyone who buys a reportedly haunted location should get used to the idea that they may get more than they bargained for.
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If the truth is out there than why haven't I found it yet?
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11:42 am May 9, 2009
| Hannah
| | Texas | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 361 |
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I would make Ryan Buell think that being chased by a demon was more preferrable.
One of the threats my mother used to make when she has absolutely had it was "If you don't do/stop xyz right this instant I am going to snatch you bald-headed!" Ryan is so enamored with his own image. . .well, you all get the picture.
Revenant, re-arranging internal organs? Ooo, hadn't thouight of that. Very nasty ghost behavior. 
Why not more intelligent communication? Certainly throwing bricks, etc. would indicate they didn't want you there, but writing get out in the dust would work also and use less ghostly energy.
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1:59 pm May 9, 2009
| Revenant
| | Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage" | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1393 |
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Hannah said:
Why not more intelligent communication? Certainly throwing bricks, etc. would indicate they didn't want you there, but writing get out in the dust would work also and use less ghostly energy.
I agree and disagree with you. I do agree about communicating using written words. I like your "writing it out in dust" much more than my "picking up a pen" technique. It would be easier to do.
However, I disagree with "Certainly throwing bricks, etc. would indicate they didn't want you there." That is what started my grand hi-jacking of my own thread (in a way). What is a brick being thrown communicating? The first and only thought seems to be "they don't want you there." I am disputing this as the only reason behind the supposed communication. (Again, I am approaching this as if both the flying brick and moving soap dispenser are "real" paranormal events. For the record, I do not believe either were. Yet, the "what if" stuff is still fun to debate. )
The brick did not fly towards the Zac and the other guy. It landed no where near the doorway. They saw a brick "being tossed in the air," screamed, turned and ran…still screaming. Am I to take the interpretation of the event from two screaming men as the only possibility? Were they reacting to the object or the event? Say instead of a brick, it was a pink, fluffy stuffed rabbit. Would they have still screamed and ran? They would have been startled, but I do not think the reaction would have been the same.
Does seeing a pink, fluffy stuffed rabbit tossed across room "indicate they didn't want you there?" I believe the brick itself causes that interpretation of the event. The brick is threatening. A pink, fluffy stuffed rabbit is not. In fact, seeing the rabbit fly across the room would probably be seen as a ghostly child playing with a toy. Funny how the object determines the interpretation of the event, isn't it?
Now, back to the soap dispenser and my point. With a brick and a pink, fluffy stuffed rabbit…people can interpret the event. With a soap dispenser…not so much. We are forced to look at it from a different perspective. A perspective that should be used with all moving object events. Regardless of the object, what is the actual movement implying? Is a form of communication being issued? Is symbolism being used?
Overall, I feel that most interpretations of these types of events are flawed and biased based upon the object itself. The "obvious" interpretation is always taken and is almost never questioned as to its validity.
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"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
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