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Paranormal Cops S01E01 Big Timer's Sound Shop

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6:19 am
January 20, 2010


Learjet

Australia

Lead Investigator

posts 1122

Finally the much awaited episode of Paranormal Cops is here. With the integrity of police officers, one would think the evidence presented should be more credible. But here is where I sank into my chair with much disappointment as they showed dust orbs, passing them off as something paranormal. Sigh… Not even Ghost Hunters would do that. They reckon they've never seen dust move like that. Well guys, I have and it looks like dust to me.

I don't know what to make of the EMF sessions. The meter they use is a Cell Sensor. I don't have one so am not familiar with it's frequency response, only that it is an AC EMF meter.

The question and answer blinks were uncanny. There were some misses but how does a meter blink 3 times when asked for 3 blinks if by accident?I find these sessions as frustrating as K-II sessions.

I thought tape across the doors was a good idea, a pity no cameras were on them though.

I dunno, they might be cops by day, but at night they use the same dodgy techniques with equipment that have tricked other investigators before them. Paranormal dust indeed.

I'm not sure what to make of them yet. Like GL, a few more episodes should show their true colours.

OD'd on EMF

11:19 am
January 20, 2010


Revenant

Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage"

Lead Investigator

posts 1393

I think they lost me at the very beginning of the investigation.  Going through a "protection ritual" where one "imagines a great white light going through them" isn't inspiring me with notions of logic and slanting towards science.  It is almost an admission that ghosts are real and they're going to "bust 'em" as opposed to scientifically trying to prove an hypothesis pertaining to the paranormal.

I think the only portion of the episode that I liked is when the main guy (with the cigar) entered a room and said "How 'you's' guys doin'?"  I suddenly felt homesick.  Yet overall…I'm very apprehensive about "dose" guys and "dem" ghostly orbs… 

"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer

1:15 pm
January 20, 2010


phillyk48

Indiana

Investigator

posts 81

During the tour, I was 'somewhat' impressed by all the questions they asked the client and thought maybe, perhaps MAYBE they were going to do things a little differently.  But like Learjet and Revenant, I was so let down by them saying the orbs were paranormal, I just couldnt go with much of anything they said after that.  Though I did like the idea of them really looking up past history on a place and the interviews they did, especially with the guy that used to frequent there years ago and knew the owner.  I thought the tapes on the doors was great, but yes why not have cameras on them.  And that psychic, she left one room because she coudn't handle it anymore…WHERE'S CHIP WHEN YOU NEED HIM!  Tongue out  I will watch the show again to see what happens.  It's kinda nice though watching a group from Chicago…I live in NW Ind.

If your cat's speaking Latin, you might have a problem

4:04 pm
January 20, 2010


blinddog

Special Agent Zombie Elimination Agency

Moderator

posts 857

A dash of PS, a tbsp of GH, a cup of GL and pinch of MH.
Set out in the sun for two weeks and Presto!….PC.

Double tap to the head. Don't become Undead.

7:40 pm
January 21, 2010


Buffy

Investigator

posts 93

I'm with you phillyk48! I live in the Chicagoland area so it's nice to have a local group.  I was hoping people on this site would like this show, but I knew what would come out when the "orbs" were "studied." At least they didn't go into a long drawn out explanation about the difference between dust and orbs like GA. Learjet, I agree about the tape on the doors and was thinking the same thing about having the cameras on them.   Maybe they will progress into better camera angles.  I was curious to read what everyone thought about the Cell Sensor that they were using.  It would go off when and how many times they wanted it too, so it would be interesting to read if anyone knew how that could happen.  I liked how the Southside cigar man would ask it do what he requested more than once instead of "allowing it" to "behave" the way it wanted. I also liked how we didn't hear a bunch of squealing when the whole incident was taking place. 

Did anyone think it odd that all of a sudden they went into "cop mode" and scoped the place out for intruders when they discovered the door?  At one point, there was a camera shot of a gun on the hip of one of the officers when they were investigating for the possible intruders.  I thought the whole vibe of "we are cops and you must believe what we are presenting you as evidence of the paranormal because of that" was a little overdone. All in all, too soon to tell what will become of it.  Like I said, I hope that it succeeds because it's great to have something local. Chicago is supposed to be a very haunted city! 

9:14 pm
January 21, 2010


Learjet

Australia

Lead Investigator

posts 1122

"Did anyone think it odd that all of a sudden they went into "cop mode" and scoped the place out for intruders when they discovered the door?"

Not at all. That's exactly what I would have done to rule out intruders. In fact to me this is the strongest evidence of the episode of "something" going on.

The Cell Sensor scene still  has me puzzled. The guy holding it doesn't stand still though and at times he seems to be right on the "edge" of an EMF field. If this is so his slight movements may be unintentionally giving the results shown. I've seen this happen a few times in various videos. But I'm on the fence with this one.

OD'd on EMF

11:45 am
January 22, 2010


Crassus

Washington, DC

Investigator in Training

posts 21

There's a popular assumption that being a cop somehow makes you more hardnosed and more skeptical than the average bear.  James Randi has done a better job that anyone of pointing out that police officers believe some really strange things sometimes – thus the phenomenon of the "police psychic."  A lot of cops and departments rely on mediums in some cases; "any port in a storm."  I have nothing but anecdote to back this up, but I imagine that police officers tend to be a bit more religiously minded than, say, a general cross section of the population and, thus, at least open to the possibility of an afterlife.  My dear old grampa was a copper and was quite a devout believer in all things woo woo – from ghosts and aliens to drinking a swig of horse linament to help your sore muscles.  He was still a good cop. 

This show was fun because the guys in it were so damn serious.  If I had to draw a picture of a Chicago cop I would have come up with something that looks a lot like this show's lead investigator.  If this thing were pure fiction, it would be too OTT to get a greenlight. 

My issues were these:

1. Historical background.  I'm a historian.  For the federal government.  I make a lot of money doing research.  I'm pretty darn good at it – I couldn't have come up with that much background info on a building sitting in a van in the middle of the night on a Chicago street while a TV show was being filmed.  That takes time and some speciality databases/indexes that would only be available at a good library or to someone with enough cash to subscribe to them.  So I'm assuming the historical finds were staged – it looked like that background research was done before the show was filmed.  Which, of course, opens up the possibility that the medium had done her own research or had research fed to her viz. Paranormal State. 

2.  The lead investigator said they liked to go in cold – except they didn't.  They spent a long time getting info from the client and then had the aforementioned historical research business going on in the van.  Going in cold means just that.  You investigate without knowing ANYTHING!  Then if what you find matches the claims, maybe you've got something.  The closest thing to a double-blind study you could get in ghost hunting.  (I can't believe I just said that.)

3.  What's up with the tech and the medium?  It would have been nice if this really proceeded like a police procedural instead of an episode of Ghost Lab.  It really was Ghost Lab: Cops Edition.  I liked the sealed building.  All ghost hunters should do that.  I really dug the story of them uncovering this cool old mob hangout.  I liked the blood splatter stuff.  Grant and Jason wouldn't do that.  But at the end of it – about 15 minutes of the show was spent with a bunch of people standing around a blinky light thing talking.  We know nothing about that tech so it basically boils down to watching a bunch of dudes playing with a Quija board.   

"Just think of the tragedy of teaching children not to doubt." – Clarence Darrow

12:19 pm
January 22, 2010


Revenant

Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage"

Lead Investigator

posts 1393

Crassus- Nice catch on the difficulty and time-consuming aspect of their historical research.  And…welcome to the site.

Hmmm…it seems that a few people here are impressed by, or at least happy with, the tape on the doors.  I'm wondering why?

I am not seeing what the police tape does.  If a member of the cast or crew wants in, they can simply take the tape off, go in and have another replace it.  In other paranormal shows, we question the integrity of the team and crew right from the start.  So, whether they are "locked down" or "taped in" is immaterial really since they are probably behind the shenanagins in the first place.

And if it's simply to keep out the owners, the people involved with the building, or just anyone else out…that wouldn't work either.  If the owners or people associated with the building want to hoax a team, I'm sure they could develop ways to do so without being there (speakers in the wall and set on a timer, pressure switch in the floor to move an object, etc).  And for those who just want to mess with them…I'm pretty sure they wouldn't go through the front or back door.  You want to enter a building without being detected…you use a window.

So…not seeing why people are liking the tape…

"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer

12:53 pm
January 22, 2010


blinddog

Special Agent Zombie Elimination Agency

Moderator

posts 857

http://www.ghosttheory.com/2010/01/22/paranormal-cops-review

The investigative techniques, both paranormal and criminal, are some of the most absurd that I have seen.
Orbs? Pleeze, I thought that this was settled years ago.
The laid back attitude with a witness to several open case murders?
Seems as though this would warrant a trip downtown if for nothing more than a statement for the records.
Did not the witness seem a bit young for having been there so many years ago?
Discovery of, at a minimum, of 50 yr. old bloodstains.
??????????
No wonder the show sat on the shelf for so long.
I think this will be my first and last viewing.
Now, I want my phone call.

Welcome Crassus.

Double tap to the head. Don't become Undead.

1:13 pm
January 22, 2010


Crassus

Washington, DC

Investigator in Training

posts 21

blinddog50 said:

http://www.ghosttheory.com/2010/01/22/paranormal-cops-review

The investigative techniques, both paranormal and criminal, are some of the most absurd that I have seen.
Orbs? Pleeze, I thought that this was settled years ago.
The laid back attitude with a witness to several open case murders?
Seems as though this would warrant a trip downtown if for nothing more than a statement for the records.
Did not the witness seem a bit young for having been there so many years ago?
Discovery of, at a minimum, of 50 yr. old bloodstains.
??????????
No wonder the show sat on the shelf for so long.
I think this will be my first and last viewing.
Now, I want my phone call.

Welcome Crassus.


Thanks for the welcome!  Been a long time lurker, but I need another way to waste my time, honestly!

On the bloodstains – actually, you can recover really old blood spatter evidence.  Blood, like a lot of organic stains, are hard to remove and trace evidence sticks around.  I do a lot of document examination in my line of work, and on a case about ten years ago, we had an analyst identify bloodstains on a document from 1803!  So, that's not that crazy.

However – on the witnesses.  Man, those guys looked like actors.  Really.  I meant to mention that.  What was that – a composite recreation.  But they were very, very polished.  And that one fellow was too young.  Even if that place was in business in the 60s – 70s and that guys was 20, he still wasn't old enough.  My thought is that those "witnesses" were actors recreating testimony.  The client acted like a legit guy that'd never been on TV before – but those other guys were too polished.   

"Just think of the tragedy of teaching children not to doubt." – Clarence Darrow

4:40 pm
January 22, 2010


The Doctor

Lead Investigator

posts 488

Revenant said:

I think they lost me at the very beginning of the investigation.  Going through a "protection ritual" where one "imagines a great white light going through them"


First question to ask these cops is just how is one kept safe by an imaginary "light of protection" ?

Does it keep you from harm by imaginary creatures ? 

Do Chicago cops normally start investigations by getting themselves in the frame of mind where they simply make things up ?

Floating specs in the rim room, where they show us him puffing on his cigar ? … really ?  …are they serious ?

I was amused by the tape on the door … are we to believe that Casper unbolted and opened the door, breaking the tape, then closed it and  rebolted it ?

5:04 pm
January 22, 2010


The Doctor

Lead Investigator

posts 488

I would love to see Sgt. Fabiani in court-

My client says they both distictly heard the disembodied voice of the victim's's deceased wife say " I'm gonna kill you " … do you believe that it is possible it happened just that way Sargent ?

My client says he did not throw the victim down the stars, that it appeared as if a ghost had grabbed him from behind and hit his head … do you believe that it is possible it happened just that way Sargent ?

6:50 pm
January 22, 2010


Buffy

Investigator

posts 93

"Crassus said:

My issues were these:

1. Historical background.  I'm a historian.  For the federal government.  I make a lot of money doing research.  I'm pretty darn good at it – I couldn't have come up with that much background info on a building sitting in a van in the middle of the night on a Chicago street while a TV show was being filmed.  That takes time and some speciality databases/indexes that would only be available at a good library or to someone with enough cash to subscribe to them.  So I'm assuming the historical finds were staged – it looked like that background research was done before the show was filmed.  Which, of course, opens up the possibility that the medium had done her own research or had research fed to her viz. Paranormal State. "

2.  The lead investigator said they liked to go in cold – except they didn't.  They spent a long time getting info from the client and then had the aforementioned historical research business going on in the van.  Going in cold means just that.  You investigate without knowing ANYTHING!  Then if what you find matches the claims, maybe you've got something.  The closest thing to a double-blind study you could get in ghost hunting.  (I can't believe I just said that.)"

Welcome Crassus!

My apologies, but the librarian in me could not resist responding to this portion of your response and I by no means wish to convey any disrespect to a fellow researcher. :)  I do believe that they could have obtain the historical research by simply sitting in their van, albeit with some minor film editing for time.  The database that they were using was the Chicago Tribune Historical Archives so they were not searching multiple databases or indexes. This happens to be a very popular database in the Chicagoland area as you can imagine.  It can be accessed remotely so long as you have a password to a subscription, which the researcher could have used their Chicago Public Library card so no need to pay for their own subscription, but you would think the show gets a discount if they subscribe because it would feature the Newsbank product.   Anyways, to test my theory, I logged into my library's subscription from my home, which is not a CPL one btw.  I did a Boolean search for De Grazia, Rocco and Melrose Park (which they would have this location information already). I found 78 articles in which I found that some of these were "featured" in the show, mainly the one with the handy dandy floor plan.  Some of the articles were listed twice so no need to review them a 2nd time. Depending on how fast their Internet connection was, in regards to the length of time that it would take to go to the next article when they clicked "Next", combined with how fast they skim the article, would account for the time editing because a lot of these articles were short one pagers.  It took me about 1/2 hr to retrieve about the same amount of information as they gave us on the show and most of which was making sure I was spelling De Grazia properly :) and also finding out what Chicago suburb they were in. Thank you Internet! :) I even switched it to Casa Madrid and De Grazia, Rocco and narrowed it to 40 articles, so I guess it just depends on what key terms they used to search. This database could also be narrowed down by decade or specific date. They could have searched on the address alone in this database and probably could have found some of the same articles because many of the headline grabbing ones listed the address.

I agree with you about the going in cold though.  When he said "cold" I really did think they knew nothing of the site short of how to get there and what it's currently called and thought finally, a paranormal group willing to just investigate and use their psychic or findings to give them the information to research.

Total side note though, in my quick research I found that Rocco De Grazia's brother, Andrew De Grazia, died from choking on a sausage. The headline read "De Grazia's Kin dies; choked by a sausage." I originally envisioned links of sausages wrapped around the guy's neck and thought it was a weird whacking, but then I actually read the article.

7:55 am
January 23, 2010


Crassus

Washington, DC

Investigator in Training

posts 21

Ah ha!  That is great information regarding the ability to remotely search the Chicago paper.  I admit to never having done research in Chicagoland – only been there as a tourist.  That is a very cool resource.  I discovered I can get access to it through work – who knew?  Maybe watching Paranormal Cops is good for my brain after all!  Thanks much!

"Just think of the tragedy of teaching children not to doubt." – Clarence Darrow

12:33 pm
January 23, 2010


avidmike

Florida

Investigator in Training

posts 20

I'm just happy to see REAL cops getting paid instead of PRETEND plumbers. :-/

"If you push something hard enough it will fall over" – Fudd's First Law

11:27 am
January 25, 2010


HollyDolly

Investigator

posts 194

Revenant said:

I think they lost me at the very beginning of the investigation.  Going through a "protection ritual" where one "imagines a great white light going through them" isn't inspiring me with notions of logic and slanting towards science.  It is almost an admission that ghosts are real and they're going to "bust 'em" as opposed to scientifically trying to prove an hypothesis pertaining to the paranormal.

I think the only portion of the episode that I liked is when the main guy (with the cigar) entered a room and said "How 'you's' guys doin'?"  I suddenly felt homesick.  Yet overall…I'm very apprehensive about "dose" guys and "dem" ghostly orbs… 


I imagine the 'protection ritual" was because some paranormal groups who have  investigated places, have on occassion mentioned that they felt they were followed home by someone or something after an investigation.One doesn't excatly know who or what might be at a location, so henceforth the ritual.While certainly the paranormal should be investigated with scientific methods and equipment, there is also a spiritual side to it, though people seem to forget that. After all why else chase ghosts,aren't these people seeking the answer to what happens to us after we die? When we die, is that the end, or is there more?

 In regards to orbs, most investigators consider them dust, or some sort of energy form, if one saw an orb that changes shape and color,etc.

Maybe the show will get better with time.They can't be any worse than Ghost Hunters, which I still enjoy watching when my sister flings down dvds she's recorded my way.

1:18 pm
January 25, 2010


Crassus

Washington, DC

Investigator in Training

posts 21

I imagine the 'protection ritual" was because some paranormal groups who have  investigated places, have on occassion mentioned that they felt they were followed home by someone or something after an investigation.One doesn't excatly know who or what might be at a location, so henceforth the ritual.While certainly the paranormal should be investigated with scientific methods and equipment, there is also a spiritual side to it, though people seem to forget that. After all why else chase ghosts,aren't these people seeking the answer to what happens to us after we die? When we die, is that the end, or is there more?

 In regards to orbs, most investigators consider them dust, or some sort of energy form, if one saw an orb that changes shape and color,etc.

Maybe the show will get better with time.They can't be any worse than Ghost Hunters, which I still enjoy watching when my sister flings down dvds she's recorded my way.


Yes, I'm sure that's what the protection ritual was in aide of.  But that shows me at the outset that these guys have already bought into the whole paranormal belief system.  I was disappointed at that because I was hoping that this show might be more objective than, say, Ghost Hunters, but sadly not so. 

I wonder if a Pranormal Mythbusters would getting ratings?  Probably not, because Mythbusters has to blow crap up to get ratings!!  Smile

The orbs were a bit disappointing.  The one flying in a circle was obviously a bug or a moth.  You could even make out the wings on my TV set.  How does that work if you're a cop?  "Yes, your honor, that video clearly shows the defendant stabbing the victim.  No, I don't believe he's simply handing her a newspaper, even if the 'knife' does say Chicago Tribune on the side of it." 

"Just think of the tragedy of teaching children not to doubt." – Clarence Darrow

4:45 pm
January 25, 2010


The Doctor

Lead Investigator

posts 488

Anyone else notice that when the team is getting their initial breifing a picture of the client, the basement, and the starway are already posted on the board behind him and what could be a drawing of the basement is on the blackboard ?  So much for going in cold.  I wonder who the other guy on the board with the mustache is since he does not seem to appear in the show.  

5:45 am
January 26, 2010


Crassus

Washington, DC

Investigator in Training

posts 21

The Doctor said:

Anyone else notice that when the team is getting their initial breifing a picture of the client, the basement, and the starway are already posted on the board behind him and what could be a drawing of the basement is on the blackboard ?  So much for going in cold.  I wonder who the other guy on the board with the mustache is since he does not seem to appear in the show.  


Yes, I noticed that on a second viewing (my wife wanted to see it!)  I figure the Moustache Man was the owner.  When they find the door open and radio the van, one of the guys says "the keys are here in the owner's pocket." But we already know the client wasn't the owner – just and employee.  For whatever reason (probably because he knew the history of the building he owned from the deed records) the owner's screen time was cut. 

"Just think of the tragedy of teaching children not to doubt." – Clarence Darrow

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