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8:05 am August 11, 2010
| Nosfer
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In the lineup for this episode, we have credible witnesses (I haven't seen any other sort on this program) as a result of people reporting having seen strange lights on the horizon in Paulding, Michigan. While this may sound like a "solid" UFO case, explanations and legend have a more earthly background such as the light carried by a brakeman. Another explanation stems from the story of a mailman and his sled dogs that were slain "about a hundred years ago"
Here is a link to a video of one occurrence, if you look on the right side, you will see links to many more videos. If you can determine ANYTHING from this vdeo, I'm impressed. It could be Mars for all we see.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOtq7kQPfMw
A few of the other videos probably do not have an astro-possibility, although I wonder where the train tracks are (train headlight) given that one of the stories contains a train brakeman.
The test is going to be the second one, though. In this, the team will investigate a haunted railroad crossing in San Antonio, Texas, where the ghosts of school children killed in a horrific bus/train accident are said to linger around the crossing waiting to push stalled (or even just parked) vehicles over the track to safety.
Why is this going to be a test? Well, this one has been debunked already…another case of FoF and their illustrious research skills. I understand Kris is consulting for them. The elements surrounding this story are that local streets are named after the children, cry and screams can be heard at night, cars will roll uphill across the tracks on their own, and previously wiped backs of cars will mysteriously have fingerprints show up on them.
The street names actually derive from the names of the grandchildren(?) of the developer, the screams and crys are from a local peacock farm, the cars don't roll uphill since a survey of the road showed that it is actually a downgrade, and a fingerprint expert indicated that you REALLY have to wipe an area to get rid of prints. Oh, and the San Antonio connection? Well, the crash actually happened in Utah and was a STORY in a San Antonio newspaper.
This should be a gimmee for the FoFF (Fact or Faked Folks), and after last week, they really need one in order to redeem themselves. Of course, one could ask if they are really redeeming themselves when someone has already given them the answers to the test?
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10:47 am August 11, 2010
| Lindy
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Nosfer said:
If you can determine ANYTHING from this vdeo, I'm impressed. It could be Mars for all we see.
What more could you ask for? If this video isn't proof positive of the afterlife………what is?
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7:19 am August 12, 2010
| Patrick
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$10 says FoF comes up with unexplained on this one.
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7:21 am August 12, 2010
| HollyDolly
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Will have to watch the video.As far as the San Antonio Tracks are concerned, on another program where they visited the tracks, they spoke to the Head Librarian of the San Antonio Public Library and an officer from the San Antonio police department.Both said that in their archives, there is no record of any school bus crash happening in San Antonio. Now how this story about the crash in Utah changing into a local San Antonio urban legend,i have no idea. This story has spread so far to other places. Someone on the Unexplained Mysteries forum posted the story and said it happend in El Paso until someone reminded the poster the supposed accident happend in San Antonio.Have even seen posters in like Iowa and elsewhere say their area has such a story as well. Meanwhile, no one remembers the original accident in utah.
That's like most people know about the Columbine Killings.But few are aware of the Bath School Massacre in Bath,Michigan in the 1920s. Andrew Kehoe, a member of the school board was having financial problems, he was upset over the school taxes as well as other personal financial issues. He also did repair work around the school.While working on the school doing repairs,he was secretly stashing dynamite in various places under the school.He did the same on his farm as well. He set off the explosion and when talking to the Superintendt, while in his truck, he aimed a shotgun at the floor and wound up blowing up himself and the school superintendent. Also when rescuers were trying to get the teachers and kids out, they also discovered more dynamite,which for some reason did not explode.
When people went to kehoe's home to let his wife know what happend, they discovered she was dead,and so were the animals in the barn,etc.www.crimelibrary.com at Tru Tv has information on it, as well as the net.
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7:25 am August 12, 2010
| Nosfer
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HollyDolly…not sure what your last two paragraphs have to do with this case?
The bus crash story became tied to San Antonio because it showed up in a San Antonio paper (the article still mentioned that it was in another place) but because the story was under a San Antonio banner, it was "transferred" to a local area.
HollyDolly said:
Meanwhile, no one remembers the original accident in utah.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705338209/Bus-crash-in-1938-led-to-train-laws.html
Or, check down in the second paragraph under "Twentieth Century" here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Jordan,_Utah
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7:26 am August 12, 2010
| Nosfer
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Patrick said:
$10 says FoF comes up with unexplained on this one.
10 days ago I might have taken you up on that bet. After last week, though, I'm not betting ANYTHING when it comes to these folks!
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10:14 am August 12, 2010
| Revenant
| | Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage" | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1393 |
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Having gone to Michigan State University, I heard about the Paulding Lights years ago. Yet, I think back then it was actually called something else. In any event, it was thought to be headlights and tail-lights on a highway a few miles away. A cool effect, pretty fun to see I'd imagine…but nothing mysterious. From what I remember, it was more of a drinking/having fun sort of thing as opposed to "Oooooo…it's a ghost!" type of thing.
And really…that was over twenty years ago. I don't see the point in doing something on this considering that it's pretty easy to debunk. Everything has been done for them at this point. Then again, that could be exactly why they are doing it.
Put one person at the "observation point." Coordinate with a car on that highway a few miles away. Put your hazards on. Botta-boom, botta-bing…you see the Paulding Light…now blinking at you. Great work, Scooby…here's a Scooby-snack…
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"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
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10:39 am August 12, 2010
| Nosfer
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I believe that Dog Meadow Lights is another name under which this one goes. I think you're right, at this point I think they need the slow-ball cases!
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3:03 pm August 12, 2010
| Lindy
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Revenant said:
Having gone to Michigan State University
I live about an 8 iron from MSU…..in Holt.
After the first 10 minutes last week, I found myself counting how many times I heard someone say the word "actually". I think it was 16 times from that point forward. I'll see if it is "actually" more tonight.
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7:37 pm August 12, 2010
| kevin
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Noooooooo!!!! EVP sessions!
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8:02 pm August 12, 2010
| Nosfer
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Argh, these both were painful. I was expecting an EVP session at the railroad crossing. Enough for me tonight. I'll put together reviews for both of them tomorrow.
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9:59 pm August 12, 2010
| Moviemark
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Aaaarggghhh both were very painfull to watch. They could not come up with an explanation for the lights but I saw the explanation on the show. It's night time she is standing there and saying we can't explain it and behind her is a cop car and behind him is a streetlight a streetlight high in the air that comes on every night at dusk, they quickly switch to the guy watching the light and in almost the same position on my TV as the previous shot is the mystery light. Also maybe I missed it but did the light ever disapear or did it stay on all night?
Thank god they got the second one right I was yelling at the TV the whole time use a level, use a level because depending on the camera angle the road looked like it was going uphill and downhill.
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6:42 am August 13, 2010
| Patrick
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The train track one was especially painful. They must be desperate for stories. They needed a 20-ish filler investigation. That is why they waited until the very end to measure the grade on the road. Wouldn't that have been the first thing you do? I don't have alot of faith in the upcoming episodes if it took the entire investigation on this one to finally decide to measure the grade. Perhaps I am dismissing the power of that optical illusion too much though.
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8:34 am August 13, 2010
| Lindy
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They should have flown the airplane from the base camp towards the Paulding light while it was visible.
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9:02 am August 13, 2010
| Nosfer
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The original Time Magazine story about the crash from 12 December 1938:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,760486,00.html
Explained in 2003 by North Texas Skeptics:
http://www.ntskeptics.org/2003/2003november/november2003.htm#ghost
Yes, 2003!
I understand that Agent Ben is closing in on Dillinger and will have him apprehended any day now with the aid of Jael whom he's convinced to wear red.
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11:55 am August 13, 2010
| hyacinth
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I'm surprised that the isn't , that I'm aware of , a gift shop close to the crossing selling mini school buses and trains , t-shirts , finger print kits etc considering all the people who go there to have the " ghost children " push their car.
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12:00 pm August 13, 2010
| Revenant
| | Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage" | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1393 |
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A fine review on the Paulding Light, Nosfer. I just have a few things to add:
I went to the Paulding Light website (…of course it has it's own website…):
http://pauldinglight.com/
I went through the forum and found it, essentially, useless. It swings from true and absolute belief into genuine puzzlement into skepticism and then into unabashed "hatin' on the Light." I have no idea who is being truthful or what information can be trusted. I will say this though…I can see a certain level of "misinformation" and I completely understand that. With the Paulding Light, Paulding and the surrounding area has something. They are…different. They stand out from the crowd. Take it away and claim "headlights" and they instantly become Everytown, USA. So beyond profit, there is a motivation to not be entirely truthful on that website. Anyway…
Nosfer commented on Austin and Jael racing towards the light on their ATV only to come up empty-handed so they settled into some random testing. This showed me a couple of things. First and foremost, that seeing the Light is heavily dependent upon the viewer being in a particular location. This is the first tell-tale sign that we may be dealing with perspective, as seen in the other half of the episode entitled "Rollover." Although the path that Austin and Jael may have seemed even to the naked eye, I'm willing to bet that it was actually a down slope, thus taking the pair out of the line of sight for the Light.
The other thing it showed me was some very bad science. As Nosfer mentioned, the pair just sort of randomly (at least it appeared random) stopped, claimed they couldn't see the light and began some testing. Um…ok. You cannot see the light. You do not know the location of the light. Yet, you take readings and declare that the lack of any significant reading is proof of something. And speaking of bad science…
Let's talk about their headlight test. They took the closest spot that they could on a nearby road and couldn't emulate the light, although…the light was still seen. A few things wrong with this "experiment (and am I the only who gets queasy when they mention the word "experiment?")." First up, not all headlights are created equal, as in the height from the ground to the headlights themselves. A compact car will be different from a large sedan to a SUV to a pick-up truck and lastly to a semi-truck. To do testing on a single vehicle is not the end all and be all of testing for headlights.
Also, Austin and Jael showed with their ATV adventure that the geographical location of the viewer of the light is the key in actually seeing it. So…you may be dealing with some sort of optical illusion. When people start thinking geographically, many people tend to think two-dimensionally. That is why the group looked at a map and chose the closest location that the road had to offer. But, was this necessarily the best choice? Perhaps, they should have looked at elevation instead. There is a national park nearby. If one looks at a terrain map of the area, you can see various points of elevation throughout the entire area.
I'm thinking that the Light is actually a blur of headlights from a higher point of elvation (much farther than the point that the FoF team chose). And much like in "Rollover"…it is just difficult to see with the naked eye.
One last thing…could there have been some hoaxing going on? Quite possible and we should not rule it out. It's a VERY small town. FoF did come in and actually close down a road. You want to see a light? We'll show you light…that sort of thing. I'm not saying that this was the case…just saying that it should remain a possibility.
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"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
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4:14 pm August 13, 2010
| hobart
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There were a lot of problems with this episode. I think it was the Paulding part of the episode when they were driving to meet the couple, the driver asked "When are we supposed to meet them?" The guy in the back said "To be honest…." That is not the kind of question that needs "to be honest" as a response. "Have you been drinking?" is the kind of question that needs "to be honest…" as a response. Second, when they wen't to see the light, they did not keep the camara pointed at it as they were driving their little atv, at least not that they showed us. When they got to "where the light was" the camera was only pointed at the ground. How about showing us the view from where you are standing, unless you really think it was a ball of light on the ground. Third, do some research. Was there ever even a railroad nearby? Fourth, what kind of lantern was that brakeman using if they felt they needed a 25 zillion candlepower spot light to recreate it? Fifth. why didn't they use the plane to track the light? Common sense would have told them the first night that it wasn't a plane. Sixth, common sense would also tell you it was not combustible gas coming from the ground and igniting. I have seen fire (I'm a firefighter afterall), and I have seen lights. That was a light, not a fire. It does not count as an experiment if it is obviously wrong. Seventh, at the begining of the episode the lady said it looked like a brakeman's lantern to her. The "investigator" started asking a question "Have you ever…" A good way to finish that question is "…seen a brakeman holding a lantern on a moving train before?" Instead he asked something else (I don't remember what.)
In the train episode, it was really frustrating that they intentionally angled the cameras to make the road look like it was a steep incline. Seriously, that is lame. Then they go through all of this "experimenting." Instead of testing a bus to see if the kids are strong enough to move something heavy, why not just set a ball or skateboard down and see if it rolls. That ought to tell you pretty quickly that the road is on a decline. Unless the Utahian ghost kids like balls and skateboards. Of course, how come they only push them towards the tracks? That reminds me, wasn't the story that the kids were trying to save everyone from the trains? Why did they only push them towards the tracks? Lastly, what was the deal with the first test "Oh my! A train! We had to hit the brakes so we didn't get hit by it!" Stinking murderous ghost children. Sorry, you can hear a train from a long, long way off. Especially if you are standng next to the tracks with no motor running. Besides, by law the engineer has to blow the train horn a certain distance from every crossing. Seriously, I don't mind debunking something that has already been debunked, but you don't have to try to make it so dramatic.
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4:30 pm August 13, 2010
| Nosfer
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The problem I have with them debunking something that has already been debunked is that it makes it seem like they have done absolutely no research whatsoever. I found the 2003 article in less than 5 minutes of searching. By Ben declaring "Solved" at the end of this one they try to give the impression that this thing was totally mysterious and unknown until last night. Until they came along and saved the day.
Either 1) They independently solved it…which speaks very poorly of their research skills and puts forth the idea that rather than spend 5 minutes in front of a search engine that they would rather waste who knows how many dollars on plane tickets etc to investigate this case. Or 2) They knew what the situation was all along and faked the episode so that it appeared that they were putting their investigative skills to work solving this mystery and then giving no credit to those who solved it earlier.
Chi-Lan talks about the original Utah crash as an afterthought. How did she find out about that? From the locals or did she type in a quick google search? Whether it's 1) or 2) above, it does not speak favorably of the team. Much like the UFO case where they do all these tests and then call up a park ranger who tells them, oh, yeah, there were a bunch of people here who launched a big UFO. That episode should have consisted simply of a minute and thirty-eight second phone call.
And the San Antonio portion of this episode should have been nothing more than a 5-minute google search. That way maybe they could have devoted the remaining time to doing some actual investigative work up in Michigan rather that what they foisted on us. I had hopes for this series. They are dwindling.
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