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1:00 pm August 27, 2010
| blinddog
| | Special Agent Zombie Elimination Agency | |
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http://www.wsoctv.com/news/24780894/detail.html
The story has a tragic end, but you can't help the term 'thinning of the herd' cross your mind.
From another source one witness said "We were standing on the tracks and saw the train, but we weren't alarmed.
We thought it was the 'ghost train' approaching.
Ughhh!
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Double tap to the head. Don't become Undead.
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1:43 pm August 27, 2010
| Bobarino
| | Valencia, CA | |
| Investigator | posts 181 |
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This is sad, but it is also rediculous. They thought it was a ghost train not a real one?
I wonder if the family can sue GH for this?
But, with the popularity of ghost hunting thanks to GH, GA and the like, more and more this will happen: Getting hit by trains, getting shot by owners, assaulted by homeless etc.
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1:50 pm August 27, 2010
| Nosfer
| | Rotaredom | |
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Bobarino said:
I wonder if the family can sue GH for this?
Hope not…well, they can, but hope it wouldn't get anywhere. There IS such a thing as common sense, regardless of what is shown on TV.
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2:08 pm August 27, 2010
| Bobarino
| | Valencia, CA | |
| Investigator | posts 181 |
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I agree, there are too many lawsuits as is. But people sue…and win… for more ridiculous things. Well, for equally ridiculous, lets say.
But my point is this: GH is misleading people. Now many more people are out there trying to find these things. There WILL be more incidents. And it is a direct result of people watching and believing. So now they want to go and see first hand. So they will go into abandoned buildings where who knows is waiting for them, or stand in front of ghost trains, or venture onto someones land unannounced and he shoots them thinking its a robber.
I'm just sayin'
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2:20 pm August 27, 2010
| Nosfer
| | Rotaredom | |
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But where is the line drawn? There probably isn't a TV show out there that doesn't give some moron somewhere some stupid idea…including "the News" I know there have been lawsuits for even more ridiculous things, including ones involving trains. Misleading or not, though, I'm not sure GH should be held responsible for anything. I'd say some of these video game makers would be a bit more responsible for some of the things we've seen than GH.
I think they've made a few comments from time to time about trespassing, so to sue over being influenced by them to go ghost hunting but to then admit that they weren't influenced by the trespassing statements is, well, probably par for the Legal System these days :(
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2:39 pm August 27, 2010
| Bobarino
| | Valencia, CA | |
| Investigator | posts 181 |
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I agree with all but the video game comment. I agree they SHOULDN'T sue.
And it is true that people will mimic what they see on TV. I remember in the 1990's some kids set something on fire and the parents blammed Beavis and Butthead.
I think the difference is that GH is shown as a reality show, and as such an exponentially larger number of people will try some of their stuff hoping to catch a glimps of something in person. Should GH be held liable? Naaa. That wasn't the meaning in my post – rather it was that more of those tragic events will take place due to the paranoormal's popularity right now. The sue comment was more a statement about our current culture
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2:50 pm August 27, 2010
| Nosfer
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Bobarino said:
The sue comment was more a statement about our current culture
And a sad statement it is…especially since you are completely right. Not so sure about the video games. Kind of a tangent here though, but… My line of reasoning on it was how real they are getting (reality again) but no consequences for the actions taken in them. Shooting a bunch of ASCII art 25 years ago was one thing but when the person you blow away is hardly distinguishable from a real human…and then with no consequences for it…and that people are starting off on these things at a younger and younger age (despite the "rated M for mature" warning lol) I'm starting to wonder.
I need to find it, but there was something a few days ago where some guy was suing a game manufacturer because it pretty much left him unable to function in society. If I can find it again, I'll post it. Extreme, but probably not isolated.
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2:56 pm August 27, 2010
| Nosfer
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http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/08/lineage11-addiction/
No, this isn't the type of situation I was referring to above when I wondered about more of a leg to stand on with video game suits lol
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3:06 pm August 27, 2010
| Bobarino
| | Valencia, CA | |
| Investigator | posts 181 |
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Well I disagree, but for selfish reasons. For years I was a programmer for one of the largest video game companies out there… 
There are many games that are very realistic, and you are doing some very graphic things. But, this is where the parents need to be parents. Are you going to let a kid watch porn? The ratings are there for a reason. If you as a parent let a 8 year old kid play a FPS war game like Call of Duty or Battlefield, then that is YOUR fault. The kid would be just as happy playing Sponge Bob ice cream maker. Same thing in movies. Take a 7 year old to see the Expendables or the Last Exorcist instead off Toy Story 3, you are just failing as a parent.
Boy… this conversation took a left turn LOL
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3:14 pm August 27, 2010
| blinddog
| | Special Agent Zombie Elimination Agency | |
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Ya' see, there was this bunch of da's standing on the train tracks and a train was coming……
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Double tap to the head. Don't become Undead.
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3:15 pm August 27, 2010
| Nosfer
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LOL, yes it did! I agree about the parent's role completely. The movies are bad enough with some of the unnecessary violence in them, too…but when a person becomes an active participant I think it goes up a notch. And just like TV, nobody would play a boring game so you have to be out killing and blowing things up. All in the name of entertainment. I think it's all part of a bigger picture, namely the decline of western civilization!
Man, I remember when we used to go outside and kick a ball around lol
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Ghost Train
(there, maybe that will bring us back on topic lol)
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12:21 am August 28, 2010
| Revenant
| | Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage" | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1393 |
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One of my favorite quotes is from Hunter S. Thompson. It's almost my motto: "You buy the ticket, you take the ride." I couldn't help but to think of that when I read the story. You hunt for ghosts in the dead of night ON TRAIN TRACKS…you get what you get. I mean I would hope the person is alright…but…you know…stick your arm in the lion's cage and you get bit…don't come crying to me when all of a sudden you can only count up to five…
I've always been kind of amazed that more "ghost hunters" don't get hurt. But I agree with Bobarino, the frequency of these "ghost-related" injuries will increase.
As far as the other part of the conversation…I can't help but to always sigh when someone does something kind of stupid and violent and somehow video games get brought into it. People were stupid, violent, weak, and in need of help (like the guy in Nosfer's gaming link) for thousands of years. Well before video games came along. And we still are..nothing has really changed except for our toys (I can hardly argue against that point). To me, blaming video games for any sort of decline of our civilization is like blaming that last rain drop for making the oceans of the world wet.
At full disclosure…I've been a big time gamer for years. And for years…when a lonely kid takes his own life or some morons get involved in a bit of the ultra-violence…suddenly little cartoon guys are the spawn of Satan and to blame for the world's woes. I have yet to hear a convincing argument on that matter in the last 20 years. The lawsuit in Nosfer's link may be heard…but it will get thrown out. They always are. And should be. Perhaps, in this particular case…although symbolically as well…perhaps the young man should just take responsibility for his own actions, stop trying to find blame in others, and get the help that he needs to succeed in life.
Which…in full circle…back to the ghost hunters hit by the train. The person that was injured…I'm sure their lawyer is looking for somebody to sue…paranormal TV shows, the train-line, maybe even members of that ghost hunting group for not taking proper precautions and not warning the person. Always something or somebody to blame instead of taking personal responsibility.
Hmmm…I guess the moral of the story? If it is ever a ghost hunter versus a train on the "Deadliest Warrior"…always throw down money on the train…
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6:58 am August 28, 2010
| Nosfer
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Revenant said:
I've always been kind of amazed that more "ghost hunters" don't get hurt. But I agree with Bobarino, the frequency of these "ghost-related" injuries will increase.
So what would you see as the cause of this increase?
As for the lawsuits? Probably the train line first, that was the scapegoat in the last train-person collision I recall. Makes sense, the lawyer will go in order of bank account size. The individuals with the guy who was killed would probably be named as a last resort if all else fails…providing there is a suit to begin with.
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9:56 am August 28, 2010
| Revenant
| | Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage" | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1393 |
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Nosfer asked: "So what would you see as the cause of this increase?"
A couple of factors. The first…as we ride out this paranormal craze, the sheer amount of people being exposed to it increases. As the number of people increases, a few small categories increase…including those not physically up to the challenge of climbing and such. Those with existing injuries and conditions. Push them enough and they'll get hurt. Also…you start hitting the jackpot for the "crazies." Those that are bound and determined to do something crazy and reckless regardless of the activity itself. Ghost hunting will be blamed in this instance, but really…this category of people would do something crazy anyway. Ghost-hunting is only the vehicle in which to get to the land of broken legs and ignorance for this group.
The other main factor is this "one-upmanship" that we're seeing in everything, especially in online videos. Compare videos from five years ago to those right now. The "extreme" videos seem to be really escalating in danger and stupidity (see this link for any question on that). Translate that to ghost hunting now. People will trespass more. People will cross shaky walk-ways, unstable floors, and challenge asbestos and whatever other obstacle that they should be steering clear of…and in the dark as well. This willingness to push things, to crankit up to the next level will include more injuries. And if they can get these accidents on film…so much the better. After all, people want their little videos to get big numbers on Youtube. To do that, you need to stand out. How do you do that? Show people "going extreme" and getting hurt.
It will escalate and ghost hunters will start dying (if they haven't already). At this point, the hunter becomes the prey. Other ghost hunters will come and try to communicate with the ghosts of the previous ghost hunters. At last…the vicious circle complete.
(Oh, and for the record Nosfer…in no way, shape, or form was I insulting your point of view on games or bating you into a debate over it. It's just that the "video games are bad" argument has been pushed down my throat for over two decades now. To me, it's like the "ghost thing." There is no concrete evidence that video games are bad, yet many people "believe" it. Typically, those that believe it do not play the games. They only judge the most graphic and most shocking game at the moment. If one looks objectively at the topic as a whole, the argument that video games actually add something positive to society is infinitely more solid than the counter-argument. This has always been the case, yet…popular belief…video games are still "bad." That belief is slowly changing, but for those of us that play and have to put up with it…not fast enough.)
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"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
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12:30 pm August 28, 2010
| Stephen
| | San Jose, CA | |
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I submitted the story to What's The Harm, which is a site that tracks harm caused by failures in critical thinking.
Like almost any other activity, ghost hunting can be dangerous if done stupidly. Late nights, unfamiliar locations, and generally ignoring the laws of physics are a bad mix.
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Stephen the Friendly Skeptic
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3:07 pm August 28, 2010
| Nosfer
| | Rotaredom | |
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Wonder what started this paranormal craze in the first place? Was GH a cause or just a result? ie, did it start because programs like GH started airing, or were programs like that picked up to have something that catered to the craze?
Didn't see this one posted here yet, so:
http://www.dreamindemon.com/2010/07/21/three-teens-seriously-injured-during-possible-ghost-hunt/
http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-ghost-hunter-teens-cliff,0,7263457.story
Jason commented on this saying:
"Hope they are all ok.This is bad for the field.get permission."
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2:32 am August 29, 2010
| Bobarino
| | Valencia, CA | |
| Investigator | posts 181 |
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1. I'm with Rev re: video games. I hate to say I agree with him on anything… sigh. But he is right.
2. RE: "Was GH a cause or result", I would say result. I am speaking for myself here, but I have always been interested in the subject. That, UFO's, Bigfoot, etc. I would eat up any and all shows on TLC or Dicsovery about the subject. They were few and far between, and would be rebroadcast for years. And I would re-watch them every time.
Then came GH. WOW! A new episode each week!! If there were others like me, and evidentally there were, when a weekly show came on to HUNT them! WOW!!!!! I was in! And look at the crazy stuff that happened!
Now we have a growing audience and it has morphed into what we have today. And I don't want to watch anymore thanks to GH.
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9:45 am August 31, 2010
| Revenant
| | Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage" | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1393 |
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Here's an update with just a bit more information about the accident. To the right of the story near the top you can find video of the trestle itself and the 911 call.
http://www.wistv.com/global/story.asp?s=13055036
Bobarino said: "2. RE: "Was GH a cause or result", I would say result."
I would agree that GH was just a result of the paranormal craze as opposed to the cause. Just before GH hit the airwaves, there were already two very popular paranormal shows on TV.
The first was MTV's "Fear." I loved that show. Stick a bunch of college kids in scary places, let them do "challenges" and see who wets themselves. That's just good TV. Anyway…love or hate MTV, they are extremely innovative and do begin many trends that other networks follow. With this particular show, it proved that a reality style show paired with the paranormal would work.
And when GH began on SyFy ("Sci Fi" back then), keep in mind, it wasn't even the highest rated "ghost-centric" show on the network. That title belonged to "Crossing Over" with John Edwards. Some would argue that it was a "psychic" show. Sure…but the main push was that he "talked to the dead." Which really, is a big part of GH with their EVP sessions.
So I believe that GH took the paranormal craze to the next level, but it certainly wasn't the cause of it. I just don't want to give them that kind of credit…
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"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
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12:01 am September 4, 2010
| Revenant
| | Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage" | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1393 |
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Hold on a minute! I was telling someone about this story tonight and something struck me. Something that I originally missed. I re-read the link that I posted in my previous post and found this:
"The sheriff's office plans to talk with other witnesses to the accident who left the scene before deputies arrived."
A person got killed. Why are people leaving the scene before the deputies arrived? Isn't that illegal?
And…a person IN YOUR GROUP got killed. A person that you know. Why are you leaving before the police come? What is going on with that? Is it me or is that just sort of weird?
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"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
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