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12:52 pm December 1, 2010
| Nosfer
| | Rotaredom | |
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The last conference was a bit of a bust so we'll have to see how this one pans out. This will be on Thursday, 02 December at 2pm EST.
http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnew…..ology.html
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4:00 pm December 1, 2010
| Learjet
| | Australia | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1122 |
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They're not gonna trick me this time. Noooo. Even though I want to hear that they've discovered life on Mars, I'm sure it will be some obscure molecule they found 12 billion light years away from a research facility in need of funding.
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4:44 pm December 1, 2010
| Nosfer
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Because we detected a puce-colored signature in what we think is the atmosphere of this exoplanet, we believe that there is methane present which could possibly indicate the presence of methane generation which could possibly be related to some sort of methane-production on the planet which could possibly indicate the presence of something that would be conducive to the existence of an environment that might support the basic building blocks of life. We think.
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7:25 pm December 1, 2010
| blinddog
| | Special Agent Zombie Elimination Agency | |
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If Agent K and Agent J were in attendance it would peak my interest more.
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Double tap to the head. Don't become Undead.
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4:34 pm December 2, 2010
| Awaba
| | Awaba | |
| Investigator | posts 88 |
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Post edited 4:35 pm – December 2, 2010 by Awaba
well duh! alien life might be – well – 'alien'. who'd a thought???!!! are NASA for real? or are they getting paid by the press release these days?
it would seem to me fairly obvious that we have no idea what form alien life will take, but to NASA this is some sort of revelation.
how sad. how much money is poured into NASA? and yet their press conferences seem to do nothing but state the obvious and to try to titilate beforehand.
maybe they need a hobby. send all of NASA paintballing for a weekend. maybe a couple of double taps to their collective heads will stimulate some thought processes.
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4:43 pm December 2, 2010
| Nosfer
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Awaba said:
it would seem to me fairly obvious that we have no idea what form alien life will take, but to NASA this is some sort of revelation.
Guessing and confirming are two different things.
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5:09 pm December 2, 2010
| Awaba
| | Awaba | |
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have they confirmed? this is terrestrial life they have found, not alien in any case.
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5:13 pm December 2, 2010
| Nosfer
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They have confirmed the difference here on earth. One could guess something like Antimony replacement or Beryllium too and it may or may not be the case. Proving a replacement and thus expanding the potential signatures with a KNOWN difference is a bit more than just quaffing a pint and speculating.
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6:55 pm December 2, 2010
| Learjet
| | Australia | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1122 |
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News at 11. NASA has found life on Earth LOL.
http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnew….._Life.html
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10:02 pm December 2, 2010
| Leslie
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Joke all you want, but I think discovering a new biochemical system for life (here) on Earth is important! Until now, this idea has only been 'alive' in science fiction. Many people (including myself) have long believed this to be possible, but believing without the proof means nothing. Now we have some proof. Hooray!
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10:34 pm December 2, 2010
| Learjet
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| Lead Investigator | posts 1122 |
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It's important, it implies life may develop on planets with harsh toxic atmospheres.
But a press conference for it? I would have thought a writeup in a scientific journal (which they have done) or an internet release would be sufficient.
I guess I missed the memo where PC's are now released every time they sneeze. Not that there's anything wrong with that either. I'm all for bringing science into mainstream news, but I think because they haven't done this in the past, people (including me) were expecting something special.
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1:54 am December 3, 2010
| Revenant
| | Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage" | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1393 |
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Learjet said:
It's important, it implies life may develop on planets with harsh toxic atmospheres.
But a press conference for it? I would have thought a writeup in a scientific journal (which they have done) or an internet release would be sufficient.
I guess I missed the memo where PC's are now released every time they sneeze. Not that there's anything wrong with that either. I'm all for bringing science into mainstream news, but I think because they haven't done this in the past, people (including me) were expecting something special.
Wow…I couldn't disagree more. This…is a game changer. Does it deserve a press conference? Absolutely.
I mean we're taking a basic concept (that phosphorus provides the backbone for DNA and RNA) and chucks it right out the window. I still can't wrap my head around that!
Expecting something special? How about that we just proved that we (as in Earth) aren't the only game in town? We're talking about life based on elements which aren't typically seen in life chemistry here on our planet. This…changes everything. Looking for life is no longer only regulated to "Earth-like" planets. We have to expand our search. We have to broaden our scope of what the word "life" means and how it works.
This…is a step. We're seeing history right now. In a couple of centuries…this moment will be remembered. Today…we have expanded our scope of life, the universe, and everything (for Douglas Adams fans out there…).
So does this deserve a press conference? They deserve a freakin' parade!
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"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
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5:43 am December 3, 2010
| Learjet
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| Lead Investigator | posts 1122 |
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6:53 am December 3, 2010
| Leslie
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One thing at a time, Learjet. That'll be next- and then all hell will break loose!
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1:29 pm December 3, 2010
| Revenant
| | Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage" | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1393 |
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Learjet said:
But but but…. I wanted this. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075860/
I know, I know. I have to admit, I've been a bit disappointed by very unexpected backlash to this news. Many people wanted aliens. But…what we got…was something better.
I've been in contact with a couple of friends of mine. One has read the entire paper. He gives it a "thumbs up," Said the experiments were nice, clean, and tight. My other friend is a third of the way through. I just started on it but…it will take me a while. Some of the things in it, I'm right there. Other things…a bit above my pay-grade or beyond my comfort level (a lot of "what is that?" and "why would they do this as opposed to that?" type of things).
If all this pans out…if these results are true….mannnnn….we're going to after to re-write entire sections of chemistry! That's how big this is and I don't think that many people who aren't into chemistry (not you Learjet, just people in general…) are really grasping the enormity of this.
I mean…again, if this is proven and true…this would be just a bunch of crazy. It would be like someone proving to me that the Earth is round and not flat. AND…not only that, but I didn't even know that the Earth being round was even on the table. This…is how crazy big this is. And it saddens me to no end that people are disappointed in this. Yesterday…I knew what the building blocks of life were and the intracellular mechanisms behind them. Today…I don't. THAT…is awesome! Scary…but awesome…
@Leslie – I don't think hell will break out. I think our new Arsenic-based micro-overlords shall be benevolent. And by that, I mean our annihilation will be quick and virtually painless. So, you know…there's that….
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"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
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2:45 pm December 3, 2010
| Awaba
| | Awaba | |
| Investigator | posts 88 |
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nah, still unimpressed. i think the arrogance of the scientific community to assume alien life will meet our criteria of 'life' has always been just wrong headed.
the same with programs like SETI. just because we use radio why assume alien intelligences will? it's like saying you'll search for alien life by doing a google search for their website – 'cos intelligent beings make websites'.
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3:00 pm December 3, 2010
| Nosfer
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Arrogance? You start with what you know and then, as you learn more (like yesterday's announcement), you expand your search criteria. You talk about pouring money into them and then also about not speculating on other possible possibilities (redundancy intended) I'm sure you wouldn't be too happy if they were wasting a lot of money by bringing in psychics to search for alien life just because aliens might have bigger brains that might be detected that way?
With limited budgets you have to make the most and search in methods that you know will at least detect a form of life as we currently know it. Most bang for your buck, so to speak. And then as you know (learn) about other forms, you expand.
Yesterday's announcement indicates that they are considering these other criteria and thus open to the possibilities.
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1:45 am December 4, 2010
| Learjet
| | Australia | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1122 |
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Revenant said:
… Many people wanted aliens. But…what we got…was something better.
I can see how this appeals to you Revenant, it's in your field of interest. By comparison for me it would be like discovering that ghosts exist and create EMF lol.
I wasn't really expecting big eyed grey aliens. What I really want is the discovery of a life form, no matter how small or primitive, bacteria or our arsenic friends to be found to exist on another world. That elongated micro fossil looking thing they found in the meteorite rock from Mars for example was close but no cigar.
Nearly there. Maybe it will be in my lifetime.
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2:48 am December 8, 2010
| Revenant
| | Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage" | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1393 |
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Hmmm…
In a previous post, I had mentioned that a couple of friends and I were reading the paper. The first guy who read it, who gave it a "thumb's up" is not a chemist, he's a physicist. He is insanely smart…but has little "hands-on" experience with our type of equipment. My other friend and I are in the field of chemistry. And we're…slowly backing away from the paper. There are things or aspects that we don't understand. Although the premise of the paper is very exciting…ground-breaking…we really need top-notch experts taking a good long look at this paper.
(If anyone is interested…my chief problems with that paper: They dunked the DNA in water while they analyzed it. First…no clue why they did that. But more importantly, any Arsenic compound, no matter what it's attached to, breaks apart almost instantly in water. It remained in chunks…which strongly suggests that it was phosphate-based. The argument that it was Arsenic-based is weak. And even before this point, it seems like they missed or by-passed a couple of steps when they took the DNA out of the bacteria. No reason in the world to do this, no matter what type of experiment that you're running. By passing on these steps, the bacteria could have simply been contaminated by Arsenic. We can't even phantom why they would have done that.)
There are a few more things, but those two really jump out. I am not saying that the paper is wrong or fake or whatever. Just saying that there are some glaring questions that need to be answered. Maybe they can be corrected. I don't know. But if my friend and I are finding problems…I don't know what's going to happen when the really smart people start reading this paper. I guess we'll find out in the coming months…
Maybe people who aren't used to the world of science will get a chance to see how brutal "peer review" is and how it is absolutely and positively needed. If only the paranormal world would submit to this system of "checks and balances." Can you imagine J&G handing over alternate video shots or sound files of their "evidence?" Yeah…right…
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"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
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