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UFO = Unidentified Furry Objects

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9:43 am
May 13, 2009


Mary

Pondering what you're pondering

Investigator

posts 147

Monsterquest seems to address a lot of strange issues, like Bigfoot.

After reading our local paper, there seems to be a lot of recent sightings of cougars, which skeptics claim can't be possible, because cougars were wiped out in my state (Michigan), 80 years ago.  Even if people show actual proof, like fur that is positively identified as cougar, or footprints, or photos, the DNR and others claim there is still no proof, and only say it must be a stray 'pet' that got loose.  I happen to believe there are cougars because a very nice (and sane) lady I know says she saw one, and it left large prints behind.  The DNR refused to come out and look at them, and she tried to do a plaster cast, but because it wasn't anything she'd done before, it failed to take.   It really annoys me that skeptics put the cougar in the same category as Bigfoot and UFO's. 

Has anyone here ever seen a wild animal that 'can't possibly exist because it was wiped out a long time ago'?  When I was growing up, we didn't have coyotes or Canadian geese in our area either, yet now they are quite common.

Comments?

"Quando omni flunkus moritati" ("When all else fails, play dead") – Possum Lodge motto. Jason and Grant should adopt it as their own.

10:28 am
May 13, 2009


alicat

Lead Investigator

posts 1215

Mary,

Interesting that you brought up this subject.  I just saw an article on aol the other day about a jaguar that was photographed at a research station on an island in the middle of the Panama Canal.  Here's the link from the local news down there:  http://www.panamanewsbriefs.com/?p=82521 or you can also go to aol where they actually showed a picture of it. 

South Jersey and PA have had several credible cougar sightings as well including one or two by police officers.  There was a lot of evidence but they never found it (or them).  I believe it to be true.  I cannot claim to have seen any wild animals like that but I certainly would not put Bigfoot or a UFO in comparison to a cougar.

I can, however, understand someone mistaking a pet as a wild animal from stories told to me while I was out searching for a lost greyhound.  The dog was a tall, nicely fed (not fat) red brindle greyhound that had bolted it's owner's yard.  Many miles away in a heavily wooded park bordered by a local college with a housing development on the other side, a number of people ran into the college office claiming there was a tiger loose.  The college called the police and a search ensued and it was all over the papers.  Unfortunately they never found the "tiger" but, when I showed them pictures of the dog, they all agreed that is what they saw.  I don't know…. tiger …. greyhound?  Sadly, the dog was never found and, no matter how much searching we did, we knew she was so scared (she was already very shy) she never would allowed herself to be taken in by someone or located.  Even knowing this, the owner and I searched for over 4 months until it was well into winter when we finally were resigned that the search was over.  So it does happen.

11:37 am
May 13, 2009


Revenant

Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage"

Lead Investigator

posts 1393

I have absolutely no problem with people seeing large cats (cougars, leopards, etc) in various states.  The first, and probably most important point, is that cougars are very much real.  They are not mythical creatures or have the stigma of "they might exist" attached to them.  I can go to a zoo and see one.

As for "skeptics claim can't be possible, because cougars were wiped out in my state (Michigan), 80 years ago"  I would have to believe that the statement is taken out of context by the local paper.  First, a true skeptic isn't going to claim that anything isn't possible.  It's an absurd position to take.  If the question posed to the skeptic was "Is it possible for cougars to be living, breeding, and multiplying in Michigan at this time?" then I can see the answer given as long as it coincides with findings and data given by the local wildlife experts there.  A better question is "Is it possible that a few or a singular cougar is loose in Michigan?"  Then that changes things.  It is quite possible.

 As for how a large cat might be in Michigan or any other state…who knows?  Could have escaped from a number of places.  I lived in Texas for a while.  Some people there keep exotic animals as pets.  If they escape…you think they're going to stand up and claim it?  I don't think so.  Other possibilities include maybe one got loose in transport or maybe one came down from Canada.

And Alicat brought up an excellent point in misidentification.  Quite possible.

Have I seen anything myself that "can't possibly exist?"….nope.  Closest thing I've come to seeing anything along those lines were the "super rats" in the late 1970's in Chicago.  They grew impervious to the poisons being used to control the population so they grew to enormous size.  I remember taking a broom with me to put trash in the trash cans.  Always had to check the cans first.  As a kid…yeah, they were monsters!  And very real!   

"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer

12:34 pm
May 13, 2009


alicat

Lead Investigator

posts 1215

Revenant,

"Super rats"?  I just can't imagine having to run into one.  A very definite monster in my mind whether you are young or old, most especially when you don't expect them to pop up.

As far as people having exotic pets, I agree.  No one ever wants to own up when an exotic pet is discovered roaming wild.  I think that some time ago someone had exotic big cats in an apartment in NYC.  Just a week ago two men were arrested at LAX for smuggling exotic birds from Vietnam.  I saw it on the news and couldn't believe it.  How very sad for these animals.  Check it out http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,519166,00.html

I also think the reason we have seen so many sightings of animals that are thought to no longer be in a particular area is that we have pushed these animals out of their natural habitat by building more and more housing developments, etc.  I'll stop here because I don't want to rant about that.

1:43 pm
May 13, 2009


Bobarino

Valencia, CA

Investigator

posts 181

I know I am just echoing Rev for the most part, but comparing Cougar sightings to Bigfoot sighting is comparing apples to oranges.   Cougars are known to exist, Bigfoot is not.  If you capture a cougar no one is going to bat an eye, but bring in bigfoot you will be a worldwide star!!

I also take exepction to the "skeptics claim can't be possible" statement.   Huh?  As previously stated there are a LOT of possible explanations that this could be true.  Just because someone makes a statement like that don't label him a skeptic.   Also, he could have other reasons for saying that.   Maybe he could be "out of touch" with the real world.  Maybe it's his pet and he doesn't want autorities to come looking.  And so on.  You get the point. 

I've found that being AWESOME is a full time job…

1:53 pm
May 13, 2009


Nosfer

Rotaredom

Moderator

posts 2957

I also take exepction to the "skeptics claim can't be possible" statement.

I take exception, too…that statement is typical of those made by people who have skeptic confused with denyer or denier or however you spell that!

I, as a skeptic, do not claim that anything is not possible. I just will not put it in the positive column until I have been convinced by means other than "My best friend's cousin's dad's buddy from work saw it coming home from the bar last Saturday morning."

Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.

1:59 pm
May 13, 2009


Bobarino

Valencia, CA

Investigator

posts 181

Are you making fun of my spelling?    Tongue out

I've found that being AWESOME is a full time job…

2:01 pm
May 13, 2009


Nosfer

Rotaredom

Moderator

posts 2957

I take exepction to that acusashun! :)

Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.

12:42 am
May 14, 2009


Stephen

San Jose, CA

Admin

posts 589

Rodents of unusual size?

I don't believe they exist. :)

Stephen the Friendly Skeptic

1:51 am
May 14, 2009


Revenant

Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage"

Lead Investigator

posts 1393

Mary said:

I happen to believe there are cougars because a very nice (and sane) lady I know says she saw one, and it left large prints behind.  The DNR refused to come out and look at them, and she tried to do a plaster cast, but because it wasn't anything she'd done before, it failed to take.   It really annoys me that skeptics put the cougar in the same category as Bigfoot and UFO's. 


I meant to address this but forgot to in my original post.  Mary, I think it's pretty cool that your friend actually tried to do a plaster cast on her own.  If she finds any tracks in the future, this website might help.  It's a pretty easy "how to do" a plaster cast for tracks:

http://www.bear-tracker.com/plastertracks.html

Alicat and Stephen-  Yes, the "super rats" were HUGE!  I'd say maybe 5 feet in length, maybe 200 lbs.  They were… Laughing …not quite that big.  Maybe a few inches larger than they normally got.  Still, for a ten year old kid…very scary.  I remember one evening, I saw a rather large one sitting on top of the can (the "trash cans" back then were like industrial drums).  Usually, they run when someone comes.  This one just stared at me.  Defying me.  Daring me to get close.  As I look back, it probably didn't move because it was either injured or ill.  Yet at the moment…terrifying.  Needless to say…the trash went back into the house.  There is a fine line between bravery and stupidity.  I didn't learn to cross over to stupidity until much later.  I live there now.  Perfect view of bravery from here…

"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer

5:16 am
May 14, 2009


alicat

Lead Investigator

posts 1215

Revenant,

I vote for bravery from afar on that one.  As an adult that would be unnerving enough but as a 10 year old face to face with a rat, no matter the size, I would have been completely terrorized.  Smart move.

Edit:  This is the closest we've come to seeing them around here:  http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29034656

8:38 am
May 14, 2009


Leslie

Investigator

posts 157

Just found this. They are fianlly caught on camera in NC !

http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/newcat-pix09/

10:08 am
May 14, 2009


Mary

Pondering what you're pondering

Investigator

posts 147

Interesting that they are confirmed in northern Illinois and southern Wisconsin.  That is very close to Michigan, and cougars can travel vast distances. 

alicat – that rat picture is a hoot! 

"Quando omni flunkus moritati" ("When all else fails, play dead") – Possum Lodge motto. Jason and Grant should adopt it as their own.

10:44 am
May 14, 2009


alicat

Lead Investigator

posts 1215

Mary,

Everytime someone is having a dispute, union or not, there it is.  For some unknown reason, each time I'm surprised when I see it.  You would think once, but everytime?  Sometimes there aren't even protesters at the site, just the giant rat with a message.  That being said, I just can't imagine even going toe to toe with a regular or even larger real life rat.  I'd have dreams forever from that.  I think that's why when Revenant posted about them I blocked the "protest" rat from my memory until today.

I have no doubt you have a cougar or two in Michigan.  I truly believe we have a few in South Jersey but with all the overbuilding, we have pushed them from their habitats and into the open.  My guess is that around here the Pine Barrens are a good choice and much further south of where I live, is a very large and rural portion of the state.  Are you in the UP area?  If so, you've got the environment for them to survive.

12:58 pm
May 14, 2009


Revenant

Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage"

Lead Investigator

posts 1393

Leslie said:

Just found this. They are fianlly caught on camera in NC !

http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/newcat-pix09/


Nice find.

The first picture from North Carolina….yeah, that's definitely interesting.  I like that it's right by a tree (so you can get some idea of size and proportion).  Unfortunately, they do not state any measurements.  Still…looks like a panther to my untrained eye. 

However…the second picture, the one from Illinois, I'm not so sure about.  Again, no measurements are mentioned.  To my very untrained eye, it looks a bit short to be a panther.  Perhaps it's simply young.  Then again, could be a bobcat.  Could be a very large domestic cat.  To be honest, I'm not all together certain if it even is a cat.  That's definitely a picture in which we need a couple of experts to tell us what we're looking at.

"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer

1:36 pm
May 14, 2009


Leslie

Investigator

posts 157

I agree it would be nice to have some ref. to size, but I also think that these are the real thing. I was driving through NC last summer, I95 north, and I saw dead on the side of the road a BIG black cat. At first I thought it was a really big black dog, but as I drove by I saw the shape of the body and it's distinctive long tail. My mother , who was in the passanger seat, got a longer look at it than I did, and she 'freaked out'. She knows her animals too, and she said it was a panther sized cat. She was begging me to stop the car to look, but I couldn't do it – traffic and safety reasons. (I95 can be darn dangerous!!) I didn't have my camera anyway. Needles to say, after that I don't doubt that they are roamong around NC and elsewhere. ( Now if we could just get photos of the Ivory Billed Woodpecker!)

1:56 pm
May 14, 2009


alicat

Lead Investigator

posts 1215

Blinddog50 and Hannah,

Uh oh!  Better read Leslie's last post, especially Blinddog50! We may run into something more than we bargained for on our trip.   I'll do the driving Hannah if you will take the photos! Cool

2:08 pm
May 14, 2009


Leslie

Investigator

posts 157

@ alicat- Normally I'd say 'he's a dog , it's a cat, no big deal' ,but considering the size of that thing that kitty would probably make doggie burgers out of Blinddog with a side order of psycho chicks.Laughing

2:23 pm
May 14, 2009


alicat

Lead Investigator

posts 1215

Leslie, I know.  It's a little unnerving.  I like looking at them from afar but I wouldn't want one in my back yard let alone freaking me out driving down the road.  I don't even like going through the safari park at Great Adventure.  Smile Seeing one (which I'm sure you did) on the side of the road like that I would have had two emotions, first extreme sadness and then nervousness - my eyes would be wide open the rest of the way.  You should see me driving through the Pine Barrens hoping a deer doesn't run out in front of me.  I'm not sure how I would react.  It has happened to me twice in Maryland when a large herd of deer were just standing in all 3 lanes of a major road at dusk.  There were a number of cars and trucks following us and it's a miracle no one hit anything.  They stood their frozen and it was like a maze zig zagging around them.  My friend and I just gasped and I kept driving.  We drove in silence and didn't say a word for about an hour before we just turned and looked at each other and said OMG!  I always worry about things like that with bears and deer coming back from the shore because I'm always driving the route by myself.  That's one of the reasons I got a cell phone finally but, with my luck, there would be no cell tower around!

That's why I'm putting the word out to my fellow psycho chics and Blinddog50.  We protect our own!  Cool

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