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3:28 pm December 13, 2008
| SkepticalRader
| | California | |
| Investigator | posts 38 |
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What if Jason and Grant admitted that they hoaxed some of the evidence on the Ghost Hunters program? How would that make you feel? Would that be enough to satisfy you?
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3:31 pm December 13, 2008
| SkepticalRader
| | California | |
| Investigator | posts 38 |
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Let me get this topic started. For me personally I would be very saddened by the admission of deceit. It would surely be the end of the "Ghost Hunters" and probably take "Ghost Hunters International" with it. As someone who has never had a paranormal experience and really doesn’t believe in ghosts I have always watched shows about the paranormal strictly for entertainment. When the “Ghost Hunters” first came on I was intrigued by the style of the show and the earnestness of the people involved, especially Jason and Grant. From day one I never really believed in any of the evidence that was put forward as proof that ghosts exists. I could always see how easily it could have been faked. But I gave them the benefit of the doubt and suspected that others were manufacturing the evidence. Case in point: I always thought that Brian Harnois was the perpetrator of the East State Penitentiary cloaked figure. I had no compelling reasons to believe that, just a gut feeling. I always thought that that was the reason he temporarily left the show. I never bought into the drama that centered around his girlfriend. They did emphasize that he was a liar and couldn’t be trusted. I felt that he confessed to what he did and was exiled from the show. I’ve since changed my mind about Brian and believe that he is more honorable than I first thought.
I am a hard-core skeptic, but not so much that I can say for a fact that ghosts don’t exist. It’s like God, either you believe or you don’t. I don’t think the existence of ghosts can be proved or disproved, especially not with cameras, EMF detectors, audio recorders or thermal imaging. But it makes for good entertainment and I enjoyed watching the hunt.
I don’t feel that Jason and Grant owe me anything. No one should trust everything they see and hear. “Ghost Hunters” is an entertainment television program. There is no such thing as a true “reality show.” They are all scripted to some degree. Just the fact that they are on camera, and know that they are, means they are not going to behave in a “real” natural way. They will constantly be editing what they say and do. Add to that the fact that the program will physically be edited to make it more exciting to the viewer. We will not always see things in the proper order that they actually happened. That’s entertainment. The main goal is to stay on the air and make money. You could say that every program you see on TV can be sub-titled “Ratings Hunters.” Reality TV is no different.
I would feel very sorry for Jason and Grant if they hoaxed us because they have a lot more to lose than anyone else. They put their reputations on the line. They made us believe that they were sincere. They would also set back the legitimacy of ghost-hunting that they worked so hard to attain.
That’s my take; I’m interested to hear yours.
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3:33 pm December 13, 2008
| Nosfer
| | Rotaredom | |
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Satisfy me? In what way? We have pretty good suspicions of it now, I'm not sure what they're admitting of it would do to change anything. With my current suspicions, I can't really trust anything I see…with them admitting it, it wouldn't change much since I would still not trust anything I see. They have pretty much gone past the point already where they are inextricable.
Yes, we're all aware that this is ratings driven. But, what made them sell out and do/say things that were untrue and 'not as they seemed' Money? Okay, I'll buy that, but it really shows how much passion they truly have for the field :(
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12:38 am December 14, 2008
| Queen of the Nerds
| | Orange County, CA | |
| Investigator | posts 105 |
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If they admitted to hoaxing, I would say, "No duh!" It wouldn't surprise me. The only surprise would be the admission of guilt.
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If you believe in telekinesis, raise my hands.
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5:32 am December 14, 2008
| Andy
| | Liverpool | |
| Investigator | posts 101 |
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agree with Oubliette. They ARE hoaxing………maybe not everything but some of it, so you can't believe them about ANY of it………..ever again
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8:27 am December 14, 2008
| dr_peter_venkman
| | Rochester, NY | |
| Investigator | posts 99 |
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SkepticalRader said:
What if Jason and Grant admitted that they hoaxed some of the evidence on the Ghost Hunters program? How would that make you feel? Would that be enough to satisfy you?
I don't think I would get any satisfaction from an admission. My initial attraction to the show was being able to spend some time watching it with my family and seing their reactions to the events and evidence presented. Even though I knew GH was misinterpreting evididence I didn't suspect them of hoaxing. I had strong suspicions that others were involved. I kept most of these thoughts to myself so that my family kept their interest and enthusiasm. It was something to look forward to on Wednesday nights. Even after viewing the well-formed skeptical explanations offered here, I was able to keep my attitude and opinions from affecting our overall enjoyment of the show.
All that has changed. Collargate was the tipping point. I showed them the clips and described the debunking. It was particularly painful to see my daughter's reaction. Interest in the show has almost vanished. No, there is no satifaction to be had for me.
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Hee hee hee! "Get her!" That was your whole plan, huh, "get her." Very scientific.
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2:07 am December 16, 2008
| T.A.Sharps
| | Iowa | |
| Investigator | posts 60 |
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I wouldn't worry, there is no way they would come out and admit hoaxing a single thing. That would be like asking you to cut off your right hand.
The hoaxing would have to of been the basis of the show. I'm sure during the creation the idea had to of been brought up about what to do to keep viewers from being bored with the same old hunt turing up nothing from house to house.
Although I can see the hoaxing being because of the pressure that GH is the most popular show on Sci Fi.
Actually its a really smart idea, to create a show that gains the trust of their viewers by acting open, honest, natural, and real, then insert some simple manipulations into the "reality" to make it seem amazing.
Something I always thought should of been done in the Blair Witch Project, it seemed like a real documentary, accept 2 things, it was presented in theaters, and they didn't use even the slightest effect to shock you.
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" Your reality Sir is lies and balderdash and I am delighted to say I have no grasp of it whatsoever!"
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6:59 am December 16, 2008
| Learjet
| | Australia | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1122 |
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I'd like to know how many of the GH team are in on it. I get the impression Steve and Tango are not. They never find anything other than spiders. It will be interesting to see if the new Ms Amy has lots of ghost experiences next season.
So, what happens if one of the team that's not in on the deception discovers hanky panky with J/G? Do they blow the whistle? Leave the show? Go along with it?
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7:10 am December 16, 2008
| Wes
| | Spaulding Inn, Room 38 | |
| Investigator | posts 142 |
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I think the only way we'd get an admission is if it were accompanied by an excuse: "we were trying to show how easy it is to fool some people, except us," or something like that … and I think the diehard base of fans would stick with them no matter what and it'd go on as usual.
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"The truth shall bear all light."
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11:58 am December 16, 2008
| Dr. Peter Venkman
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Learjet said:
I'd like to know how many of the GH team are in on it. I get the impression Steve and Tango are not.
I wouldn't put things past Steve being the source of some of the events – His consantly touching things is a great cover to be able to set things up.
For instance, at Clovis he could have picked the papers out of the box and set them back "balanced" on top. The rock could have been placed precariously on the top of the door ( did it get jared loose when they were doing their jumping – to bad noone checked the timestamps )
Was HE the one that moved the gate on the Star of India from it's initial position in the expectation that it would eventually swing back to rest ? The ironing board falling out of the closet ?
He could be setting these types of things up all along, some work, some don't — but it's hard to get caught when YOU are the one reviewing the DVR tapes.
I think Tango suspects if not knows what's going on, he's done magic professionally, and could be using this as a learning experience.
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12:16 pm December 16, 2008
| Oubliette
| | Igloo in NJ | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 574 |
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I was wondering what-if anything-I should tell my 7 year old niece about the show. She loves watching it, and personally I don't have the heart to tell her what most of us have concluded here. If think she is young enough where watching and believing it won't do her any harm. In fact, I welcome the fact she is interested in the paranormal.
Now it's not as if she is watching PS, and frankly, my brother would not let her watch that show. It's really scary, but for all the wrong reasons.
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If 50 million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.
Anatole France
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7:33 pm December 16, 2008
| CrowTRobot
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| Investigator | posts 228 |
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Oubliette,
Might be interesting to let her tell you what she thinks about the show and some of their evidence. You might be surprised to find that she has doubts about some of their findings, as well. Then ask her what she thinks could be alternative possibilities. This might be a good time for her to learn that just because something is on tv doesn't make it true.
And that just because someone or some show fabricates evidence (in this case, the paranormal) doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't exist.
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12:13 pm December 17, 2008
| DonnaB
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| Investigator in Training | posts 1 |
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Oubliette,
I can understand your concern about your niece, and why you don't want to be the one to let her down. IMO, asking her questions about the show and the paranormal, and having an open conversation with her so she can ask questions if she needs to could be sufficiant. It's normal for a seven year old to indulge in fantastic stories, and whether she believes GH is real or not probably doesn't matter much. When I was seven I believed in the Power of Grayskull, and had made a mental note never to step in glowing green ooze if I ever found myself walking around in a sewer, and that the patch of canna lillies on the side of our apartment was a magic fairey hollow. If GH gets her thinking about the possiblity that there is more to this world than what we see, then it serves a purpose. Chances are good that GH only has one or two seasons left, and your niece will soon move on to the next thing that catches hold of her imagination.
Just a thought,
DonnaB
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3:11 pm December 17, 2008
| dr_peter_venkman
| | Rochester, NY | |
| Investigator | posts 99 |
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Oubliette said:
I was wondering what-if anything-I should tell my 7 year old niece about the show. She loves watching it, and personally I don't have the heart to tell her what most of us have concluded here. If think she is young enough where watching and believing it won't do her any harm. In fact, I welcome the fact she is interested in the paranormal.
Now it's not as if she is watching PS, and frankly, my brother would not let her watch that show. It's really scary, but for all the wrong reasons.
My two cents: I would refrain from telling your niece anything overly negative about the show in the near term. My youngest is 11 and she was disappointed when I showed her the evidence but she took it well. Your niece has a couple of more years to enjoy the bliss. When the time comes you can use it as a teaching point.
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Hee hee hee! "Get her!" That was your whole plan, huh, "get her." Very scientific.
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6:36 pm December 17, 2008
| T.A.Sharps
| | Iowa | |
| Investigator | posts 60 |
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I would just not worry about it, its only a show, and I was a little happier before I saw the jaket tug, which led me to search and find this sight, and seeing all the other stuff I had missed or suspected.
I figure let others come to the conclusion naturally.
I'm a little pissed that things are faked, but really it is my own fault for forgetting that it is a TV show that is in it for the money. Money wants a guarantee.
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" Your reality Sir is lies and balderdash and I am delighted to say I have no grasp of it whatsoever!"
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4:38 pm December 18, 2008
| Dr. Peter Venkman
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Oubliette said:
I was wondering what-if anything-I should tell my 7 year old niece about the show. She loves watching it, and personally I don't have the heart to tell her what most of us have concluded here. I
You may want to pick up a couple of those "magic revealed" DVD's and watch them with her –
Some of Penn & Teller are great http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUEvDKHsus4&feature=related
Hopefully she will develop the idea that not everything or people say or show on TV has to be real.
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1:31 pm December 20, 2008
| Wallydraigle
| | Ohio | |
| Investigator | posts 114 |
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I think I was happier when I was young and naive.
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10:50 am December 31, 2008
| Steelguy
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SkepticalRader said:
What if Jason and Grant admitted that they hoaxed some of the evidence on the Ghost Hunters program? How would that make you feel? Would that be enough to satisfy you?
I am sure the Grant collar pull was an attempted hoax, so their admission would mean nothing to me.That was the moment this show lost all of its appeal to me and have not watched since. The main reason was I actually believed their bull@#$% about their integrity and how they would never fake anything.
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12:53 pm December 31, 2008
| A Adams
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I am jaded when it comes to popular media. So this is my own personal unpleasant take on the topic.
Either the GH crew has been "in" on all the shenanigans from the initial pre-production talks or the producers saw the GH crew as one they could easily exploit. It sure may seem like it but not just anyone can get a TV show. They were chosen for a reason and you can guess what those reasons might be since popularity is the driving force of popular media not credibility, sincerity, or "to heck with the ratings".
I believe viewers are misguided and tend to romanticize things- believing the production crew are some die-hard paranormal enthusiasts out to further the cause. Ha! Think again. The GH crew has also been romanticized as if they too are some die-hard paranormal enthusiasts out to further the cause. I say Ha! Think again to that too.
Again, these guys were chosen for (TV Show) reasons. How can we sit in our chairs and proclaim that the GH crew and/or the production crew are serious, sincere, knowledgeable, and genuine? I don’t care how many books they write professing their sincerity—I figure the TV people have their hand in that too.
And why let out all this damaging footage? Nothing gets out they don’t want out. In fact, I have no idea what this show is trying to do or be? It serves to "prove" TAPS ghosthunting methods is all I can see. For one, I'd be squawking at the people who are paying my salary and pandering the "smoking gun" footage rather than my fans, if i was sincere and ignorant of the "game".
Any sort of confession would be seen by me anyway, as having an ulterior motive (usually greed, but there are other reasons) as is the guiding force of the popular media. In my opinion if I want the "real deal" I don’t look for it on the tube or in popular paper media or on "bestseller" bookstore shelves.
And as far as how can I sit in my chair and proclaim that these guys may not be on the up and up? It’s because we wouldn’t be having these discussions if the preponderance of evidence said otherwise. Plus, this IS TV and it has a very unreputable reputation.
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