Just wondering if anyone had any thoughts on the incident with Frank, the sound guy, who promptly quit after being supposedly thrown on the ground and hit at the New Bedford Armory. Looks pretty authentic to me – although I guess you never know.
Here is the link on YouTube if you want to see the entire episode:
Yes, we discussed it in one of the podcast episodes. Here, I'd put a difference between "authentic" and "paranormal". Did Frank honestly get bopped in the face by a camera bag and fall over? Definitely. (Well, nothing's definite on TV shows. Almost certainly. And that's just my opinion. ) If it's a hoax, then it's certainly very impressive. But it could certainly be a minor accident.
Was his camera bag flying up and hitting him paranormal? Unknown. Brian raises his camera pretty quickly (and reacting to what, initially?) but only follows the camera bag flying up. (I slowed it down and stabilized it to be sure.) We can't see if Frank accidentally tugged on his boom mike and levered his bag up to slam his own face, or if something else happened to make the bag fly up.
The DVD has a bunch of different views on the incident. None of them give me a good enough view to let me be sure that Frank didn't accidentally give his camera bag a good hard tug and/or stumble wrong.
So I can't prove that a ghost didn't throw Frank's camera bag at him. On the other hand, I see no proof that a ghost did. Till I do, I think I need to add another law to Stephen's Laws: "Gravity is powerful, but not paranormal."
<POST DELETED BY ADMIN: Before posting, please lurk long enough to realize where you are posting. We are not TAPS, nor are we the Ghost Hunters, nor are we in any way affiliated with them.>
Cool, mutt…but we're not the Ghost Hunters! You can get on their forums on scifi.com. We're just skeptics discussing the show from our point of view…
Stephen – I love what you had to say. I thought of that, too.
But what bothers me is this: wouldn't you KNOW it if your hand jerked your bag up? I mean, wouldn't you go, "Oh, sorry, I just hit myself in the face with my own bag!" He seriously had a panic attack. I believe that is what he had. But what caused that? His reaction unnerves me even more than the bag.
I guess the only answer to that that is not paranormal would be if Frank really got spooked by the atmosphere and didn't realize that he lifted his arm up and jerked his bag up. BUT, there is slack in the bag – it falls back down right before he falls down and his hands are still up, if I remember correctly. Wouldn't your hand jerk back down if it pulled the weight of the bag up on accident?
SciFi replayed this episode last night. The incident is difficult to explain. It's one of the more compelling moments on GH, unless it's an outright hoax, which is an accusation I wouldn't want to make. Could the guy have had a seizure, the jerking motion of his body lifting up the bag?
I thought Brian was particularly irritating, claiming the force that knocked the guy down was a non-human evil spirit. A human spirit just wouldn't be strong enough to knock someone to the floor. Well, let's determine if the incident is paranormal or not before claiming what type of paranormal activity it is.
Did Frank honestly get bopped in the face by a camera bag and fall over? Definitely. (Well, nothing's definite on TV shows. Almost certainly. And that's just my opinion. ) If it's a hoax, then it's certainly very impressive. But it could certainly be a minor accident.
Did the cameraman Fall?Yes do we have an alternate explanation? Yes. Is the alternate explanation plausible? Yes. Is the explanation given by Frank, Brian, Jason, Grant more probable? No. Should we believe an unknown force or Entity picked up the cameraman’s bag and struck him in the face? No, not while there is other likely explanations. It is up to Frank and the Taps investigators to show us that it can be done with absolutely no other explanations seeming plausible.
Uri Geller bends spoons. He claims to do with using only the power of his mind. James Randi also bends spoons, but he does so using misdirection and the techniques of stage magic. Has Randi demonstrated that Geller uses stage magic to bend spoons? No, he hasn't. He has only demonstrated that it is possible to do the same thing Geller does by using stage magic.
Kevin – agreed. In retrospect, although Harnois was really funny, I'm glad they took him off because he was one of those people who think that dust particles actually ARE "light orbs." Even Jay and Grant make fun of the "orb" thing.
Paul Anthony- You've said it all, and eloquently. I do get sick of hearing about Uri Geller – weren't that guy's claims all disproved back in the 7Os or 8Os? The book I'm currently reading, "Science Confronts the Paranormal," was written in 1986 and still talks about Geller as if it's common knowledge that he's a total hoax. Anyway.
I love that the GH guys are totally and utterly convinced that a demon/unknown entity is the only solution, even though we've seen them conduct no real experiments to "prove" otherwise. Still, unless an uninterested party can be present at the time of such "phenomena" and do every experiment known to man to try and prove that it's a "normal" occurrence, it's all just hearsay.
Just to be clear: I agree with Paul Anthony. I think Frank bopped himself with his audio bag, then fell over. He might honestly believe that a ghost somehow made him fall. He might not. Doesn't matter to me.
Uri Geller has recently stopped calling himself a psychic and started calling himself a "mystifier". I call that a victory. It's hard to believe how successful he was with just a couple of cereal-box tricks.
Not a scientist, as I am barely able to translate Fahrenheit to Celsius, but what would it take to make you be willing to cry like a baby on television? Being touched by ghosts seems to make everyone dissolve – witness Steve Gonsalves blinking hard in the tunnel of the Lighthouse Inn (episode 103), Frank weeping, and Dustin Pari going to pieces in Ireland. Yeah, no – I really don't think Frank bopped himself with his own equipment bag and then fell over in a fit. There have to be some things money can't buy. I would hope.
Hi, thetalkingmongoose! Congratulations on your first forum post.
What would it take to make me cry like a baby on television? A good solid blow to the head. Like Frank received. Actually, come to think of it, he probably received two decent whacks– one when his bag hit him, and one when he hit the floor.
My hypothesis is that Frank moved his boom mike quickly to follow the action– remember there was a big camera move going on around this point, with Ghost Hunters reading off background EMF in their inimitable fashion– and the lever action was enough to send his gear flying up to hit him in the face. He staggered back, lost his footing, bam, down. Head trauma and the emotional shock of opening his eyes to see Brian Harnois staring down at him– I'd cry too. (OK, just kidding.)
Like any good scientific hypothesis, mine can be disproven. If there's a shot which clearly shows the boom mike as stationary right before and during the bag's attack, then it's back to the drawing board for me. If someone can figure out exactly how much the bag's contents would weigh and prove that the cables would have snapped, or something, then I'm in search of a new hypothesis.
Honestly, that would be great– that's how we figure things out.
I think finding Steve Gonsalves holding his hand unexpectedly would be enough to outweigh Brian Harnois staring at him, but be that as it may – you make a good point. You make such a good point that darn you Stephen the friendly Skeptic I went and watched Frank DeAngelis fall down another twenty-odd times. I'm now up to – conservative guess – well over a hundred times, so a few more won't kill me. I'm not seeing what you're seeing. His right arm is up over his head until he goes down, and his left arm is in view, as well. I think. Whether the equpment bag holds the equivalent of five pounds of flour or twenty pounds of dog food, or something in between, it seems to me to move too fast to be the result of Frank accidentally levering it. But let's assume he did, for the sake of argument. His eyes are watering when he's lying down, but he doesn't start to cry big time until many minutes later, after Sgt. Rebello has got him sitting up, and he crumples his hat and pulls it over his face. Either the man is lying and a fabulous actor, or something truly disturbed him. My view. I dunno. The last two times I hit my head hard (falling backwards onto a skating rink, and being beaned with a large glass jar), I cried immediately. I didn't wait and cry after. I still think you're missing something here. Although I may be, too. Cripes – you'd think in this day and age we'd be able to figure out what's real and what isn't. But we can't.
Interesting discussion. I still don't insist that it's paranormal, but do not believe it's his bag hitting him in the head. I agree with mongoose on that one. His hands are BOTH in the air. The bad falls back DOWN after it hits him, and his arms are still up to protect him from the fall. If the arm that had caused this was still up, the bag would stay up. I think, anyway.
And yes, he had a PANIC ATTACK. That would explain the feeling of someone "sitting on his chest." I have had those, and Jesus, are they every scary. But something caused it.
I still don't tend to think it's paranormal – I've kind of changed sides on this one – I think there must be some explanation, but man, he was freaked beyond belief. He doesn't know what happened, and neither do we, but that doesn't mean it's paranormal. I always hope I'm wrong…
What is it that takes off flying behind him right before he falls? I thought it was the boom mic, but that that appears to still be in his hand at the time. I made a screenshot of it, but the quality of the video is so bad you can't really see it. Here it is anyway with the object indicated.
It seems to take off very fast straight behind him, and is only visible for a moment. Is it just a strap or audio cable or do we just not know? You can see it at about 6:49 here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TE-S_jzmQOQ
Whatever it is seems to fly up at the same time as the bag and then fall behind him.
I assume that is the mic, if you watch closesly on the video around 6:30-33 you can see that. It falls down and is connected to the rod in his hand ;)
In the only video I have of the incident, I can't see any reason for the bag to fly up and hit him in the face, he is standing still at the time, his arms are already in the air. However, I can't say for sure that it is paranormal, as the view isn't great…
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, the sinner
You guy's crack me up.Do you really think that a sound man would put himself in the spot light by trying to make it look as if he is being attacked by some sort of ghost.DO you have any idea how much sound equipment cost's. Come on something not from this world knocked the poor guy over and scared him to death.Ghost are real! The sooner society accepts this the better off we'll all be.
If I'm not mistaken, most have already agreed that a soundman would not risk his costly equipment (and frankly, his health as well, from what looked like a legitimately dangerous fall) for a hoax.
One question people ask is, "Since this is a TV show, was his equipment really in the bags, or was something else put in them for this stunt?" A legitimate question, I think.
I have to admit, though, Frank geniounly looked shaken, scared, confused. Doesn't make it paranormal, but it does make me doubt (unless Frank is a great, great actor) that it was a planned stunt.
Crow's absolutely right: If it was a planned stunt then there's no reason to assume the bags are actually filled with expensive equipment. That being said, I also agree with Crow that it was probably not a planned stunt. That does not mean "it must have been a ghost" either, though.
What is it that takes off flying behind him right before he falls? I thought it was the boom mic, but that that appears to still be in his hand at the time.
I think what you're seeing there is indeed the mike on the end of the boom. Watch his hands as it flies "away"– it stays perfectly aligned with them. It's a bit confusing since the mike turns as it goes down.
You guy's crack me up.Do you really think that a sound man would put himself in the spot light by trying to make it look as if he is being attacked by some sort of ghost.DO you have any idea how much sound equipment cost's. Come on something not from this world knocked the poor guy over and scared him to death.Ghost are real! The sooner society accepts this the better off we'll all be.
Papagrande, I hear your point that society needs to accept the paranormal – at least as a branch of investigative science. It isn't likely to happen, however, due to the lack of ability to experiment in a controlled situation, which you can do with all of the other branches of science.
And we should NOT accept ghosts just because some people believe they're real: remember that we'd all still be believing the world was flat or that Zeus causes lightening storms if we just went with "what people believe to be true"!
So for now, we're stuck between a rock and a hard place with Jason and Grant…doing our best to believe and "prove" what little we can. I hope there will be a breakthrough someday in favor of the paranormal…
Login 
Register 
The Forum [is where Ancient Roman skeptics hang out.]
Reply to Post
Quote and Reply 
Print this Post 
) If it's a hoax, then it's certainly very impressive. But it could certainly be a minor accident.
Topic RSS 
