bullerspoke said:

That was from the Queen Mary, who's management adamantly claim the boat to be "very" haunted and have had numerous investigate groups (and tv shows) onboard. In fact, much of their business is based around that.

However, one correction, it was Tango who spotted the hoaxing, the pause and move routine. He was very new in the team then, may even have been his first full investigation. Hence the keen eyes, the question that some people ask, is f he could or would catch something like that again. Subtext: He was green and keen but now is in on "it". Or just getting sloppy like the rest of the team. I don't know, it was rather poorly executed and I have no problem believing the management of the Queen Mary trying to hoax TAPS, rather than TAPS hoaxing us.

So the debunking was thanks to Tango, not Steve, however, I believe they would have caught it in the analysis anyways, but Tango's keen eyes on such a small screen when everyone else was hailing it as paranormal is something he should be proud of. 

And furthermost, nothing indicates Grant (or TAPS really) specifically in this incident, anyone could have hoaxed it. My guess is the management of the Queen Mary.

My bad on the Steve/Tango thing.  I am working from memory due to YT being blocked at work.  Thanks for the correction. 

I hadn't considered the establishment staff to possibly be involved and given the circumstances I would definitely place them on the list of suspects as well.  I do understand that nothing indicates Grant specifically, hence my statement that this should be a tier 3.  Due to the fact that we don't specifically know where he was during the hoaxing and he had access to the room he would be suspect, however so would Jason and anyone else on the lengthy list of suspects.

As far as weather Tango would catch it again; I tend to feel that their are members of the cast that are as much in the dark about possible hoaxes as any fan would be.  I like to think that GH started as a legit show and TAPS as a legit organization.  It seems to me that these "fishy" events are happening more frequently as the seasons progress.  I think that the majority of the cast are unaware of this stuff; after all, the more people involved the harder it is to keep the secret.  In a similar vain; I find it fishy that Andy Andrews seems to have been pushed to the side.  I know he was involved in GHI, but it seems to me to be a convenient way to remove a possible obstacle in the path of a hoaxer.  As annoying as Andy was to me; he seemed to me to be one of the best debunk-ers and an investigator that was truly interested in getting the truth.

Edit to address the addendum-Like I said I am working from memory and it has been a long time since I have seen the episode, so I don't recall the side door revelation.  Thank you for pointing it out.  It would point to the management staff and not TAPS, however, like you mentioned it doesn't exonerate TAPS completely.

Sovolis wrote:

"I find it fishy that Andy Andrews seems to have been pushed to the side.  I know he was involved in GHI, but it seems to me to be a convenient way to remove a possible obstacle in the path of a hoaxer.  As annoying as Andy was to me; he seemed to me to be one of the best debunk-ers and an investigator that was truly interested in getting the truth."

I have been defending Andy's debunking skills for years.  Many people do not like his personality, looks, attitude–you name it.  I believe he is/was the best debunker in that organization; better then the Dynamic Duo, which is one of the reasons he "left".  He did an excellent job in the earlier seasons with GH before he was tossed (along with anyone -except Brian, who appears to have been let go for different reasons-who showed an honest interest and an intelligent approach to investigation.  In GHI, he really shone as he didn't have the Mighty J to contend with. 

I guess when you have a TV show that's based on entertainment, if someone does not have the right personality, they're removed despite whatever ability they can bring to the investigation.

About the Queen Mary, for a long time I thought someone from management was in on the hoax.  As time has passed and I've rethinked the matter, he/she needed a bit of knowledge about the camera, its setup and how not to get caught pulling this off (i.e. leaving a shadow).  Now I'm half and half about who was responsible.

It certainly was a great find for Tango, but IF this was a setup what better way to introduce him and his debunking skills then for him to "find" the hoax.  Really makes ya wonder….

 When they were debunking the "sheet pull" during the Queen Mary episode, didn't they try to blame some girls that were staying down the hall? The hoax seemd too complicated for some young girls to think of off the top of their head. I definitely was questioning who was really reasponsible. I agree that it would have taken thought and insight to pull off. I don't think that a random hotel guest would have been able to do that. Plus, they should not have had access to the equipment anyway.

Oubliette said:

I have been defending Andy's debunking skills for years.  Many people do not like his personality, looks, attitude–you name it.  I believe he is/was the best debunker in that organization; better then the Dynamic Duo, which is one of the reasons he "left".  He did an excellent job in the earlier seasons with GH before he was tossed (along with anyone -except Brian, who appears to have been let go for different reasons-who showed an honest interest and an intelligent approach to investigation.  In GHI, he really shone as he didn't have the Mighty J to contend with. 

I guess when you have a TV show that's based on entertainment, if someone does not have the right personality, they're removed despite whatever ability they can bring to the investigation.

About the Queen Mary, for a long time I thought someone from management was in on the hoax.  As time has passed and I've rethinked the matter, he/she needed a bit of knowledge about the camera, its setup and how not to get caught pulling this off (i.e. leaving a shadow).  Now I'm half and half about who was responsible.

It certainly was a great find for Tango, but IF this was a setup what better way to introduce him and his debunking skills then for him to "find" the hoax.  Really makes ya wonder….

@ Oubliette

I always liked Andy specifically because he seems to be a genuinely good guy interested in finding the truth.  Even if he was rather overzealous and hyper-active.  While he did annoy me from time to time; I would agree that he was the best at debunking and wasn't ever content until he had tried everything he could possibly think of as an explanation.  You seem to know more about his dismissal than I do.  I never really found out why he stopped being on the show.  If any of you have information I ask that you please enlighten me.  I had always assumed and hoped that he "quit" to focus on his new family.  However, I can see the possibility of an authority figure(within the scope of the show) dismissing him to make it easier for one or more hoaxers to operate. 

Being skeptical of conspiracy theory as well leads me to believe that very few people involved with the show would have knowledge of a hoaxer.  After all, anyone that knows would stand to make money by revealing that knowledge as well as keep it secret.  I believe that Andy would be the type to "whistle blow" if he ever discovered illicit means.

To address some other posters; I never intended to directly implicate Grant specifically in this incident.  I was just trying to make the point that he would be one among many on a lengthy list of suspects concerning the Queen Mary.  Perhaps also to suggest that maybe this was a hoax perpetrated by TAPS, but Tango(not being on the inside) caught it.  If that were the case; they may have decided to include it in the show in an attempt to add credibility to themselves.  "We don't do hoaxes…we expose them."

I am still leaning towards Queen Mary being the culprit behind the hoax but TAPS is no way near exonerated. What we can gather is that whoever perpetrated the hoax had to have access to certain information, knowledge and tools and have some skills to pull it of. First the moving bedsheet is a known haunting, very known. That implies that a hoax might have been perpetrated before and that this might have been one in long line of hoaxes. It might even be a routine, someone at regular intervals or during ghost nights enters the room and shuffles the bed bringing credibility to the story when unknowing people find the bed shuffled. Speculation indeed, but still… 

To perpetrate this hoax you need opportunity and you must know a way to enter without being detected. To maintain the illusion you can't take the risk of being caught by the main door. To enter though the tight junction that connects the room to back door you need to know it's there but you also, presumably, need keys. To avoid detection during the night in question you must also know how to avoid being caught on the camera in the room. As for motif, well, TAPS and QM both have it. 

Lets slice it up.

TAPS: Opportunity – check, knowledge of the back door – unknown, keys to the back door – unknown, knowledge on how to avoid the camera – check.

QM: Opportunity – check, knowledge of the back door – check, keys to the back door – check, knowledge on how to avoid the camera – unknown.

In conclusion, we have two suspects with opportunity and motif, yet one of them, QM, also had information and tools the other probably didn't.

We should also remember that we in this episode hade a "sensitive" (in the QM staff) who when knocking was heard that felt a "presence" and even pinpointed it's location, which turned out to be a active and working water boiler…

As for Grant's bedsheet moving at the hotel (can't remember it's name) supposedly by a female ghost who liked to touch men's feet, that is in my opinion something quite different. Here we have Grant (a person) alone in a room (which then is not empty as was the case at QM) with a Hi8, only filming a part of him (his left arm out of the frame) and then a bedshet looking to be pulled in the direction in which his left arm was located. It's just a classic safety pin–string–routine. Who had opportunity, information and means to pull it off? Grant and only Grant. If it was hoaxed Grant did it. He had opportunity, motif, knowledge of the haunting which he then could recreate, control of the camera (he doesn't like pople watching him dress for the night you know… ) if he had string and safety pins is unknown but it's household items  we all have access to, so atleast he had access to it. In my opinion that makes this a different incident altogether. Not only in relation to Grant but overall.

In fact a string routine would have been better in QM case, less risk for exposure… the whole pausing routine was risky and indeed got caught. Maybe Grant/TAPS learned a lesson there.

SkepticalRader said:

To me the decider would be the camera. I really don't think anyone from the Queen Mary would take the risk of touching TAPS' camera. Especially turning it off. For all they knew the camera was being monitored and a disruption would get the Ghost Hunters crew running to check it out. No, to my mind this was an inside job for TAPS. They set up the camera in the room and were aware of the doors and could have left one deliberately unlocked.

SPECULATION WARNING!!!!!

We also don't know if the adjoining room was being used by TAPS during the production.  I work at a Hotel and Casino that shoots TV advertisements from time to time.  I have been able to witness several shoots in the Hotel and there are always several extra rooms used that aren't being used on camera.  Many times with noone in them for hours on end.  I understand this is speculation, hence the warning.

As far as the other sheet incident, I think bullerspoke did well to pointout fundimental differences.  I also am trying to stay away from implicating an individual based on a secondary incident that is also based on circumstantial evidence and specualtion.

bullerspoke said:

SkepticalRader: Good points on the camera, it IS very risky for an outsider to enter a room with an IR camera and then start manipulating it. But still, it is not an herculian task… and the hoax did get caught so the execution was faulty…

I agree. It is very risky to enter a room with a camera running. I'm going from memory here but if you believe what was said during the analysis, this is especially true. As I recall, they thought that the person could not have entered from the main door without having light from the hall spill into the room. This means that the only viable entrance was the rear door. This entrance was at least partially in the camera's field of view. Without prior knowledge of "safe" areas in the room, executing this hoax as well as it was would have been an incredible stroke of luck.

Sovolis "If that were the case; they may have decided to include it in the show in an attempt to add credibility to themselves.  "We don't do hoaxes…we expose them."

I don't feel it was added to show credibility.   Once it was caught by the reviewers (S&T, who I feel aren't in on the hoaxes or at least weren't at the point of that investigation) they had no choice but to show it.     Not showing it would have been too obvious to them.

The QM: That was one of the oddest reveals.

a) Girls down the hallway? Please. They'd have to know TAPS was there; the room was haunted (I didn't know until this episode),  and then not be too scared to go in; how to operate that camera…

b) QM staff: Certainly a possibility. I guess they'd have a lot to gain.

c) TAPS: Certainly a possiblity. They'd have a lot to gain.

The one point I never got (if I'm remembering this correctly) is that TAPS claimed this was done by one person. I'm thinking that eliminates the girls, or any other passenger hoaxers - Why wouldn't several be involved in this? It'd be alot easier.  If the QM staff was involved, surely they could have found two or more to set this up.

Which leaves us with TAPS. They claimed one person did it, told how, and didn't really blame the MQ staff.  One person did it. New TAPS member Tango caught it.

Again, TAPS claims one person did it. Told us how. And it was caught by a new TAPS member.

Oubliette said:

…  And how Tango, the new guy, proved his worth by catching it, too!  Personally I do wonder if Tango had anything to do with it but it certainly got him recognition straight off the bat.

I don't think Tango was involved.  Actually, I'm on the list of people who think he wasn't in on it, and thus spoiled the evidence set up by the 'one person who did it'.

It would be interesting to go back and see how Tango was treated after this. I'm not sure of the timeline; but at the present, he's nothing more than Steve's goof.