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1:03 pm November 9, 2008
| Nosfer
Moderator
| | Rotagitsevni Dael | |
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| posts 1480 |
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Dr. Peter Venkman said:
Best case would be the analysis being done by members who were NOT involved in the investigation, afterwards corelating what they catch with what the team experienced.
Long ago I suggested they do distributed analysis. After the investigation, make all the evidence available for download and review. You'd have a myriad of people looking over every second of footage. Would sure add some transparency to their "investigations" A much needed transparency, I might add.
They used to do this. "Let's put it up on the site and see what people think" When was the last time you heard Jason say that! Been a while, hasn't it!
For a team that has supposedly been involved this long, their techniques are third-rate and amateur. After multiple misses, they don't change their styles and continue to miss. Walking around randomly waving equipment? Come on! At least set up a grid of recording thermometers and EMF detectors and synchronize them. It's not that hard!
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1:54 pm November 9, 2008
| Wallydraigle
Investigator
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| posts 102 |
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Dr. Peter Venkman said:
Wallydaigle-
Just noticed - did you take your shots from t he close-ups provided by TAPS or did you cut out your own ? Their cropping might have shifted during their recut. Just food for thought.
The two frames are screenshots taken from the closeup section of the video linked above. That section was one uncut piece of video.
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2:20 pm November 9, 2008
| Wallydraigle
Investigator
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| posts 102 |
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Heh, just thought of something. If the string were taken into the stairwell and draped over the light, to keep it out of the way of foot traffic, etc, when it was pulled it would move the chair and the light at the same time.
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2:36 pm November 9, 2008
| Dr. Peter Venkman
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From John's post -
Grant - "I wasn't scrolling through random audio files. I had just heard a voice and was trying to find iton a digital recorder in the cold, then the batteries died."
Someone check me on this, but from what I read in the instructions for the Olympus WS100, there is no need to be mashing the buttons on the front of it to review what you just recorded. He SHOULD have hit the side buttons, STOP PLAY and FF to get back to where he wanted to be. - but he was cold and excited … right ?
The whole question of just why he was trying to find it to play it back is another flaw in their investigations - it simply dosen't help and distracts you from your primary goal of intelligence gathering.
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4:08 pm November 9, 2008
| what if
Investigator in Training
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12:47 am November 10, 2008
| CreatureFeature
Investigator in Training
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what if said:
Found this interesting……………
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohfocjCX2sc
OUCH… 
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7:01 am November 10, 2008
| Oubliette
Lead Investigator
| | Land of the Jersey Devil | |
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| posts 527 |
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CreatureFeature said:
what if said:
Found this interesting……………
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohfocjCX2sc
OUCH… 
Here's that videos' creater addressing Grant's blog directly. It is apparent that what Grant wrote was in direct response to the video Fraud-O-Rama listed above. This guy was a big former fan and his anger and disgust are really apparent. WARNING: strong language.
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11:37 am November 10, 2008
| RandomParadoX
Investigator in Training
| | Spokane, WA | |
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what if said:
Found this interesting……………
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohfocjCX2sc
Ouch…..no really…..ouch is probably the best word for it…
I can understand the screw ups as far as production cues. They are filming reality TV and not a documentary. A documentary would have cameras tagging along. With realityTV, you have the producers giving cues on when to start the action. People may be against it, but it's the reality of reality TV and I'm okay with that. But then we get to Valentine mentioning the "You're not supposed to be here" over his earpiece. The only way this could've been a ghost is if the ghost was in the production room…it wasn't a ghost but was certaintly coming from somebody in the production. And finally, the tell-tale back slap colller tug. That, right there, is outragious. TAPS has a responsibility to represent the paranormal community with honesty. That's the sad truth of it. The majority of people out there see Ghost Hunters and assosciate it with the rest of the paranormal community. If TAPS is faking, they are all faking. What I thought was once an honest group are either manipulating (or being forced into manipulating) their audience with the false evidence and the set-ups.
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12:34 pm November 10, 2008
| Nosfer
Moderator
| | Rotagitsevni Dael | |
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| posts 1480 |
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FYI, is it just me or is the Digital Recorder kontera link in Dr Peter Venkman's post (#61) above giving alerts to anyone else's virus scanner. Trend Micro is having a field day with it. (note…this is nothing that DPV posted, it's just the kontera link that shows up _in_ his post)
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12:52 pm November 10, 2008
| Logisti
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To clarify: Kontera is an advertising agency and their software automatically creates the PINK underlined links you see in the forums, and links to relevant websites who advertise with them (and thus, advertise with us).
My Symantec Anti-Virus doesn't seem to see anything wrong, but if you guys have problems with any of the Kontera links please be sure to let me know (you can PM me or use the contact form). Nosfer, please let me know if this problem continues for you.
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5:18 pm November 10, 2008
| what if
Investigator in Training
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Yeah Random, I 100% agree with you. Some of the miscues really dont bother me that much, but biggest for me was the audio in the earpiece, and just how FAKE that voice sounded. And the collar blunder. But overall, I really, really like(d) this show. And most likely I will continue to watch. (My son is done with it though lol) But itll be hard to not look at it the same as I did before. It is very unfortunate, the had a great thing going, if only they couldve kept their integrity. Damn $$. LOL
PS No probs with Kontera here….using Avast btw
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11:31 pm November 10, 2008
| Dr. Peter Venkman
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To add to your #3 -
S02E13 The Cresent hotel - Grant is to stay in room 419, where people's bags are found propped up against the inside of the door.
During the setup, Dustin goes to put a camera in that room and Grants computer bag is found to be propped up against the inside of the door.
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11:37 pm November 10, 2008
| Diogenes
Investigator in Training
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Dr. Peter Venkman said:
To add to your #3 -
S02E13 The Cresent hotel - Grant is to stay in room 419, where people's bags are found propped up against the inside of the door.
During the setup, Dustin goes to put a camera in that room and Grants computer bag is found to be propped up against the inside of the door.
Forgot about that one. Yup, Grant is involved once again and we have only his word to take for it.
Grant's behavior is more then a trend. It seems to be his "stock in trade".
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7:43 am November 11, 2008
| Nosfer
Moderator
| | Rotagitsevni Dael | |
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| posts 1480 |
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Diogenes said:
Forgot about that one. Yup, Grant is involved once again and we have only his word to take for it.
Grant's behavior is more then a trend. It seems to be his "stock in trade".
I don't know about this one. It was Grant's room but Grant didn't find this. If it was not paranormal, who's to say it wasn't a Pilgrim person? If we start claiming that _everything_ that happens around him is a result of his fakery with no supporting evidence, we're going to lose credibility fast and become no better than those who _defend_ everything he says.
This list is for the suspicious events that happen surrounding Grant. What in particular is suspicious about this, other than it being in Grant's room? May as well add the face he saw at Fort Delaware then, at least he directly reported that one Using Logisti's scale, the bag in the room would likely only be a Tier 3.
Trend Micro is flipping out about all Kontera links now, it seems the last update got a bit zealous lol
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10:44 am November 11, 2008
| Dr. Peter Venkman
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Nosfer said:
What in particular is suspicious about this, other than it being in Grant's room?
Something's gone strange with the quoting below is my comment - Dr.V
Other then if it was not paranormal that he was the one person who could set it up with basically no effort and effectively zero chance of being caught since it WAS his room ?
WHOEVER had this room would be the prime suspect if we smelled a hoax - it just happened to be Grant in this case.
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11:43 am November 11, 2008
| Nosfer
Moderator
| | Rotagitsevni Dael | |
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| posts 1480 |
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Dr. Peter Venkman said:
Other then if it was not paranormal that he was the one person who could set it up with basically no effort and effectively zero chance of being caught since it WAS his room ?
WHOEVER had this room would be the prime suspect if we smelled a hoax - it just happened to be Grant in this case.
But, do we suspect hoaxing because of the incident or because of whose room it was. It's almost like saying "We are using Incident-1 as evidence to show that Person-A is a hoaxer. But the only evidence we have that Incident-1 is a hoax and can be used against Person-A is because Person-A was 'involved' and we suspect he is a hoaxer, and Incident-1 is more evidence of this." It becomes rather Chicken-Eggy at that point.
If the incident, by itself, is not suspicious, we should be very cautious of using it (like I said, this should be Tier 3 at best). We build a much stronger body of evidence when we have defensible claims where we can point to evidence of our assertions.
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12:06 pm November 11, 2008
| Logisti
Admin
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I agree with Nosfer — when Grant is standing right next to a faucet and it turns on, that's circumstantially suspicious but if we're going to take paranormal claims seriously (and that is somewhat of a tenet of this site) then it really doesn't prove anything. Given the same two options (ghost or Grant) the jacket pull at least shows us that Grant is acting in a highly suspicious manner during the incident (right hand near pocket, etc).
Conversely, the luggage in the hotel room doesn't even necessarily place Grant in the right location at the time the activity occurs — partly because we don't know exactly when the activity occurs, but ultimately this means we don't just have two possibilities (ghost or Grant) but now we also have to consider it could have been done by many different people in the building up to and including hotel staff. If we can't narrow it down to "ghost or Grant" then it's Tier-3 in my book — which means I wouldn't include it on the list because it dilutes the strength of the "Grant List's" argument.
Keep in mind that Tier-4 (on my scale) is for incidents where Grant cannot reasonably be suspected. This includes the door slamming in the McKeehan House investigation, but very few other noteworthy incidents. Certainly this luggage example does not qualify: as you pointed out, it is clear that Grant would have to be included (and perhaps head) any list of suspects.
For any who care, but don't care enough to go back to page 2 of this thread, the tiered system I suggested was basically this:
Tier 1: Incidents which seem suspicious, and where Grant is the only reasonable suspect. (e.g. Jacketgate)
Tier 2: Incidents that don't immediately seem suspicious, but if it were hoaxed then Grant is the only reasonable suspect. (e.g. Faucet)
Tier 3: Incidents that may or may not seem suspicious, but if hoaxed could have been pulled off by a number of different people, including Grant. (e.g. K-II interviews)
Tier 4: Incidents that may or may not seem suspicious, but if hoaxed Grant could not reasonably be included in the list of suspects. (e.g. McKeehan Door Slam)
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3:21 pm November 11, 2008
| Dr. Peter Venkman
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OK then … so the candle going out in Ft. Delaware rates a tier 2 ?
It appears to be almost the exact criteria as you apply to the faucet.
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4:15 pm November 11, 2008
| Nosfer
Moderator
| | Rotagitsevni Dael | |
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| posts 1480 |
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Dr. Peter Venkman said:
OK then … so the candle going out in Ft. Delaware rates a tier 2 ?
It appears to be almost the exact criteria as you apply to the faucet.
I would think so. I don't think I gave it a ranking when I first suggested it, but Tier 2 is where I would put it.
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