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9:14 pm July 23, 2010
| Monique Sears
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Yes, there are ways to debunk the "Taps flashlight event". However, this does not mean that a spirit can not effect the flashlight.
VSPR, my paranormal research team, did the same flashlight experiment. We placed two flashlight, one on a chiar, and one on the floor. We had a emf meter near one. When asking the spirit to put the flashlights on, both went on at the same time, as the emf meter spiked. Interesting mmm? We did capture it on video, and it should be on our site in about a month.
vsparanormal.com
Monique Sears
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9:25 pm July 23, 2010
| Monique Sears
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Improper use of the equipment happens all the time, even by paranormal investigators….
that said:
The way the K2 is used is similar, from what I've seen on youtube. The meter is set near the edge of a signal and the operator talks to the powerlines, er sorry "ghost" and believes their own deception. Well, indeed, but good investigators are careful where they place their K2s.
Take Frank's box as yet another example. Get a perfectly working radio and break it. Proceed to talk to spirits. I never believed in the FRANK BOX, but I have seen it work, and answer direct question. It works best, in rural areas, where there are fewer radio stations
Take a camera, video in darkness so you can't see properly. Ghost. We do have night mode, and IR lights, you know.
Take the camera again, use it out of focus – ghost. We try to take multi click, so we can debunk the photos that are not paranormal.
Take a temperature gauge, use it improperly – ghost. My temperature guage is very easy to use.
Take a trifield natural EMF meter, walk around to disturb the field – ghost. We do not walk anywhere near our TRIFIELD natural EMF meter.
Take the Ovilus, no better yet don't. Random word generator = ghost. Odd, but it does seem to work sometimes. The frank box picks up the true voice of the ghost thou, accents,etc.
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9:51 pm July 23, 2010
| Stephen
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Hello, Monique,
Welcome to the site. I'll be interested in viewing the video. Did you do any measurements as to how much force it took to turn on the flashlights? What kind of flashlights are they? What kind of EMF meter?
I don't have any problem with ghost hunting as an activity. I've done it and enjoyed it. However, if you wish to convince me of the existence of ghosts (you may not care– that's fine), I do have some concerns about some of your experimental methods. The tricky part about using things like EMF detectors and Frank's Box is that although it's quite possible to get results whose source is mysterious, that doesn't mean that the source is a ghost. Frank's Box in particular can take advantage of the fact that our brains are very, very good at piecing together sentences from random bits of noise. Do you have an independent, objective way of validating the output of a Frank's Box?
In any case, welcome to the site, and please feel free to register a username. We are very skeptical and can be pretty argumentative, but we treat people as fairly as we can.
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Stephen the Friendly Skeptic
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8:16 am July 24, 2010
| Nosfer
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Yes, there are ways to debunk the "Taps flashlight event". However, this does not mean that a spirit can not effect the flashlight.
Welcome Monique. I'm also looking forward to seeing the flashlight footage. Two at the same time does add another element. This flashlight trick is a good example of where the GH franchise has hurt the field of paranormal study. A few examples of what we've seen on the show have a very high probability of being faked. And, at the least, there is 100% certainty that the footage has been edited to show something in a way that it did not happen which, to me, makes the scene inadmissible as evidence.
You are correct about if something can be shown to happen in a normal fashion that it doesn't necessarily mean that a similar occurrence might not be paranormal. I think you have to put it into a different tier of evidence, though, if it is something that you can repeat yourself. You do gather a more defensible array of evidence if it is made up of things that you just cannot repeat.
Interesting about the EMF readings. At Wright Patterson, Grant had the same experience in the time frame in which the light came on. However with GHA at the Stanley, from what I can see, the EMF did not change. And Grant's experience seems different from your own in that it was not just a spike but an increase that continued for a while.
Course, we have to take his word for it because I don't think that at any time we were treated to a view of his detector's screen. Regarding the EMF increase, our own Learjet here has demonstrated that a normal flashlight going on can create an increase in EMF. See Post #17 here: http://www.skepticalviewer.com/forums/ghost-hunters-academy/episode-112-its-over/page-1
My own experiments with the flashlight trick http://www.skepticalviewer.com/2010/07/18/the-flashlight-trick-aka-the-sft/ leave me suspicious of this act. A suspicion that would not be so heightened if it were not for the deceit seen on GH/GHA, maybe in that regard they have done a bit of good lol. Because of this, there are several things I would probably need to see before I would even consider such footage as evidence. One of those is trust in the person bringing me the evidence, however in the case of an unknown group, I would like to see at a minimum:
- Person asking the questions in the same frame as the flashlight, no voiceovers, no panning back and forth.
- A timer or timepiece (ideally showing tenths of second) on camera (not just time stamp/time coding since those can be added after the fact)
- More than one occurrence of the interaction.
- EMF screen visible
Unfortunately, my "requirements" could be a bit difficult to setup logistically! Another Learjet question…signature of flashlight going on vs an RF remote being activated? Would they be distinguishable from each other? Frequency would probably separate one from the other…sure would be nice to see some consumer equipment that showed that in addition to just the level.
I do like the fact that you indicate that you have two flashlights doing it at the same time, that adds another level and as I said, quite eager to see the footage.
Again, welcome and I hope you'll stay around and continue to contribute.
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3:32 pm July 24, 2010
| ginrog
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| Investigator in Training | posts 9 |
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I think we are all curious to see two coming on at the same time. That is something a little more impressive than one. Though the whole possibility of them both contacting at the same time is plausible and not necessarily paranormal. Cue the footage…
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10:11 pm July 24, 2010
| Learjet
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| Lead Investigator | posts 1075 |
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Nosfer said:
Another Learjet question…signature of flashlight going on vs an RF remote being activated? Would they be distinguishable from each other? Frequency would probably separate one from the other….
Yes you are correct. Flashlight activation on a spectrum graph has characteristics of a mains stroke, very low frequency traces mostly, where an RF remote would be on a single specific frequency, most probably somewhere on UHF.
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10:42 pm July 24, 2010
| Learjet
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| Lead Investigator | posts 1075 |
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The way the K2 is used is similar, from what I've seen on youtube. The meter is set near the edge of a signal and the operator talks to the powerlines, er sorry "ghost" and believes their own deception. Well, indeed, but good investigators are careful where they place their K2s.
Reply: Doesn't matter where you place the K-II if it's being overloaded by a strong distant RF signal. For a 5 dollar box of bolts, this device could keep you searching for that elusive signal without ever finding it. Such is the nature of a broadband field strength meter.
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Take Frank's box as yet another example. Get a perfectly working radio and break it. Proceed to talk to spirits. I never believed in the FRANK BOX, but I have seen it work, and answer direct question. It works best, in rural areas, where there are fewer radio stations
Reply: I would like to see it work with NO radio stations. Not really practical these days though with band congestion the way it is.
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Take a camera, video in darkness so you can't see properly. Ghost. We do have night mode, and IR lights, you know.
Reply: Cool! But your IR lights have limited range and grainy black and white video. Leave the lights on, you will see better. ;-)
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Take the camera again, use it out of focus – ghost. We try to take multi click, so we can debunk the photos that are not paranormal.
Reply: Sounds like a good idea.
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Take a temperature gauge, use it improperly – ghost. My temperature guage is very easy to use.
Reply: Yeah, not everything that is "easy to use" is easy to interpret. Like the K-II. IR thermometers can easily be used improperly. See http://www.skepticalviewer.com/forums/general-paranormal-discussion/non-contact-ir-thermometersdeal-or-no-deal/page-1/post-11742/#p11742
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Take a trifield natural EMF meter, walk around to disturb the field – ghost. We do not walk anywhere near our TRIFIELD natural EMF meter.
Reply: That's good to hear.
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Take the Ovilus, no better yet don't. Random word generator = ghost. Odd, but it does seem to work sometimes.
Reply: As a random word generator would – sometimes. Most of the time it makes no sense at all.
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The frank box picks up the true voice of the ghost thou, accents,etc.
Reply: Really? From radio stations?
Everything you hear from Frank's box comes from a broadcast station. Everything. It's a radio receiver. If you want to believe fragments of radio broadcasts are ghost voices, that's fine, but I hope you will understand that as a radio operator myself, I just can't buy that one.
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3:41 pm July 26, 2010
| Nosfer
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Monique…a question regarding some info on your site. (vsparanormal.com)
Regarding EVPs there is a statement:
A best practice for field recording is to use two recorders. As a rule, EVP will only occur on one recorder or sound track, making it possible to avoid mistaking local sounds for EVP (false positives). But it has happen where we got a voice response on more than one recorder. VSPR had 5 recorders going in a session and 2 of them had the same response to a question while the other 3 did not.
The instances where there was voice response on more than one recorder or where it appeared on 2 of 5 recorders, were these considered to be EVPs or were they thrown out since they broke the "rule" of occurring on one recorder only?
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10:51 am August 25, 2010
| Nosfer
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Monique Sears said:
VSPR, my paranormal research team, did the same flashlight experiment. We placed two flashlight, one on a chiar, and one on the floor. We had a emf meter near one. When asking the spirit to put the flashlights on, both went on at the same time, as the emf meter spiked. Interesting mmm? We did capture it on video, and it should be on our site in about a month.
vsparanormal.com
Monique Sears
Monique, Any update on this?
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9:00 pm August 26, 2010
| The Doctor
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The whole " flashlight button as an indicator of the paranormal " concept is way' past it's time.
So called professionals like TAPS who can pay thousands each for multiple EVP recorders should have no problem obtaining equipment that will be much more sensitive and record evidence of any external pressure. If nothing else it would be able to record multiple attempts by Casper to answer questions when he was just not strong enough to turn on a flashlight.
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12:13 am August 27, 2010
| Learjet
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| Lead Investigator | posts 1075 |
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The Doctor said:
The whole " flashlight button as an indicator of the paranormal " concept is way' past it's time.
So called professionals like TAPS who can pay thousands each for multiple EVP recorders should have no problem obtaining equipment that will be much more sensitive and record evidence of any external pressure.
Like my jewelry scales. Very sensitive. 7 dollar from China. Maybe we could all pitch in and donate one.
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4:46 pm September 19, 2010
| Nosfer
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Monique Sears said:
VSPR, my paranormal research team, did the same flashlight experiment. We placed two flashlight, one on a chiar, and one on the floor. We had a emf meter near one. When asking the spirit to put the flashlights on, both went on at the same time, as the emf meter spiked. Interesting mmm? We did capture it on video, and it should be on our site in about a month.
Monique Sears
What's interesting, Monique, is that it's now been almost 2 months and no video, and no return to this site to answer any of the questions. It can't possibly take that long to post video that you already supposedly have. Makes me think your post was naught but a drive-by or an advertisement for your site?
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5:48 pm September 19, 2010
| Dreamsinger
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I would like to have seen the video, and have a question or two for Monique as welll.
One question I'd really like to hear an explanation to is why would you have to add background noise when conducting EVP sessions while using a high quality recording device?
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5:59 pm September 19, 2010
| Nosfer
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Dreamsinger said:
I would like to have seen the video, and have a question or two for Monique as welll.
One question I'd really like to hear an explanation to is why would you have to add background noise when conducting EVP sessions while using a high quality recording device?
If you're the Dreamsinger I'm familiar with, a hearty welcome, indeed! If you're another Dreamsinger, well, welcome anyway :) Learjet has already used muppets in his avatar, but fortunately they are non-Bunsenlike in appearance.
As for one of your questions, I'm going to hazard to guess that one reason might be that, with less static, they may need to artificially introduce some sort of noise pattern with which to get their audio-matrixing engaged…
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9:19 am September 20, 2010
| Dreamsinger
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Nosfer said:
Dreamsinger said:
I would like to have seen the video, and have a question or two for Monique as welll.
One question I'd really like to hear an explanation to is why would you have to add background noise when conducting EVP sessions while using a high quality recording device?
If you're the Dreamsinger I'm familiar with, a hearty welcome, indeed! If you're another Dreamsinger, well, welcome anyway Learjet has already used muppets in his avatar, but fortunately they are non-Bunsenlike in appearance.
As for one of your questions, I'm going to hazard to guess that one reason might be that, with less static, they may need to artificially introduce some sort of noise pattern with which to get their audio-matrixing engaged…
If you're familiar with the Muppety Dreamsinger from SciFy… er, SyFy, then that would be me. :) Thank you for the welcome.
As for the noise, that would be my guess as well. And this is one thing that I don't get with investigators. When something doesn't produce as much "evidence" then they either go back to inferior methods or equipment, or find ways to "enhance" their methods to get the results they want.
I've seen investigations teams that have tried employing a Faraday cage, but gave up on it because they were getting less EVPs. Shouldn't that tell them that the Faraday cage is probably doing it's job, and that some of their EVPs are stray radio transmissions? I would think so, and getting rid of it is simply a step backwards into the failed methods of the past.
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