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12:06 pm
October 14, 2009
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Angelayo1970
| | Sysematically breaking all my new year's resolutions | |
| Investigator | posts 162 |
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Found this article while perusing the articles library on the TAPS website. It's pretty entertaining, especially the line "…and no breathing in cold weather" (read it and you'll understand the context. I laughed out loud. For real).
Enjoy! 
http://the-atlantic-paranormal-society.com/articles/general/guardingskepticism.html
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"In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual." -Galileo Galilei
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12:56 pm
October 14, 2009
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Revenant
| | Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage" | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1393 |
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I read it a while ago…still pretty funny. One of my favorite parts is when he talks about using an EMF meter while taking the photographs:
"The EMF gauge offers a scientific backing for your evidence."
Really? I can lay an EMF meter next to my dog. In doing so, that doesn't make her a scientist, it doesn't imply that she knows how to use it, it doesn't mean that her readings are valid in the least, and it certainly won't "scientifically" back up her evidence.
It is more like throwing on a lab coat, a pair of glasses, and walking around with a clip-board. If you "look" smart…then maybe you are. 
And just for the record…my dog would take her half eaten "Mr Monkey Face" toy over an EMF meter any day of the week. And with it, she's just as likely to find evidence of the paranormal as Mr Gonsalves is…
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"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
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1:17 pm
October 14, 2009
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Nosfer
| | Rotaredom | |
| Moderator
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Revenant said:
I read it a while ago…still pretty funny. One of my favorite parts is when he talks about using an EMF meter while taking the photographs:
"The EMF gauge offers a scientific backing for your evidence."
Really? I can lay an EMF meter next to my dog. In doing so, that doesn't make her a scientist, it doesn't imply that she knows how to use it, it doesn't mean that her readings are valid in the least, and it certainly won't "scientifically" back up her evidence.
It is more like throwing on a lab coat, a pair of glasses, and walking around with a clip-board. If you "look" smart…then maybe you are.
And just for the record…my dog would take her half eaten "Mr Monkey Face" toy over an EMF meter any day of the week. And with it, she's just as likely to find evidence of the paranormal as Mr Gonsalves is…
Too many link styles font changes etc when I quoted you so yall (I'm taking a page from Robert) are just going to have to deal with me quoting the entire post LOL
EMF detector while taking a photo…yes, this COULD provide some scientific backing if done right. For example, if you get the meter in the shot (and assuming the camera doesn't do anything to affect it) then IF you do get a phantasm showing up in the photo AND the EMF is showing no change, this would probably be pretty close to scientific backing that EMF is not of any use for detecting ghosts.
If the meter were to react, it might be construed as backing that EMF _is_ useful, although the setup wouldn't eliminate the possibility of other sources. The other two permutations drop off to the undetectable as far as usefulness in a scientific setting. But, the first one I mention could be pretty valid/useful :)
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Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.
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1:52 pm
October 14, 2009
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Angelayo1970
| | Sysematically breaking all my new year's resolutions | |
| Investigator | posts 162 |
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It is more like throwing on a lab coat, a pair of glasses, and walking around with a clip-board. If you "look" smart…then maybe you are. 
Oh my gosh yall (couldn't resist!)…now I know what I'm going to be on Halloween. A smart person!!! And you know, I've found when I march around with a clipboard at work, suddenly I'm taken much more seriously. I'd try the lab coat thing but I'm thinking since I work in accounting they might think I'm a little crazy…
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"In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual." -Galileo Galilei
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2:03 pm
October 14, 2009
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StanTheMan
| | Lincoln, RI | |
| Investigator | posts 89 |
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Angelayo – I too am an accountant and the lab coat does work to make you look smarter!!
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5:34 pm
October 14, 2009
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Angelayo1970
| | Sysematically breaking all my new year's resolutions | |
| Investigator | posts 162 |
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I'm gonna try it…maybe I'll get a raise!
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"In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual." -Galileo Galilei
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11:03 pm
October 14, 2009
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Mugs
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| Investigator | posts 30 |
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Oh great I can see it now, Techmangler Steve and his side-kick 'yes boy' Tango will be wearing lab coats on their spin-off show with TAPS Academy stamped over the left-breast pocket: that will be holding Steve's favorite tool – an EMF meter – and a pen-sized flashlight in on of those pocket protector things. Of course the coat will be black or at least dark gray, since black 'apparently' is Stevie boys favorite color given how frequently he wears black. Dr. Gonzalez and Dr. Tango I persume? 
I too have seen the article in past, there's actually a few gems in the TAPS library which, as with Steve's 'On Skeptics' one, provide for a little comedic relief on a hum-drum day. Grant's EVP article with the do's and dont's list – believe it was Grant that wrote it and not Jay, sorry didn't double check - is pretty funny given what we actually see them do on GH. Thanks for the reminder, it's been a while since I've perused the articles of wisdom and knowledge, I'll have to take a gander through them again in the coming days.
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1:45 am
October 15, 2009
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M. Roget
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| Investigator in Training | posts 17 |
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Reading those "library" articles & commenting re: same was pretty much what earned me a banning by the TAPS 18+ Fan Mods back in '06. That & repeatedly calling them Fan Mods lacking in even the basic skills on how to moderate a board. Oh, also citing how imo the Stanley Hotel investigations were flawed, the Myrtles investigation was botched, pegging the ignorant Mr. Gonsalves as a typical bully (sucking up to J/G while crapping on those he considered lower in the food chain like Andy & Tango), stating the obvious conclusion that Techmangler didn't understand how to use the equipment he was suddenly in charge of because he hated reading & therefore refused to RTFM, and…
Had fun sparring with those mods 'til they got tired of it & kicked me off. Ah, good times ;->
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1:51 am
October 15, 2009
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Revenant
| | Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage" | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1393 |
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Nosfer said:
EMF detector while taking a photo…yes, this COULD provide some scientific backing if done right. For example, if you get the meter in the shot (and assuming the camera doesn't do anything to affect it) then IF you do get a phantasm showing up in the photo AND the EMF is showing no change, this would probably be pretty close to scientific backing that EMF is not of any use for detecting ghosts.
 ….yeah, like any paranormal team would do that…
After all, they spent good money on those EMF meters. And I have yet to see consistent evidence that supports that "high readings (0.3-5.0 mG )" have anything to do with paranormal activity. They don't get an EMF spike and then see a ghost (supposedly caught on video or not). They don't get an EMF spike and link it to any particular EVP. They literally believe that a fluctuation in any EMF actually IS a ghost. How do you argue against such nonsense?
Does anyone actually know what evidence paranormal teams are basing all this stuff on? Did they read it in some old ghost-hunting manual or something? What originally linked EMF's to Ghosts? I would love to see that evidence…
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"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
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2:45 am
October 15, 2009
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Learjet
| | Australia | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1122 |
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"They literally believe that a fluctuation in any EMF actually IS a ghost. How do you argue against such nonsense? "
Yes unfortunately they do. How can they not when GH come straight out and say it?
We are having a similar discussion on the TAPS forum at the moment. There is one old time member on the regular TAPS forum, Akbar, that is the voice of reason in the equipment section. I think he is an electrical engineer, not 100% sure, but he does a good job providing a scientific viewpoint to it all. Never the less, when ordinary folk get their K-II meter to light up, no amount of reason it seems will convince them it could be something other than a ghost.
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5:58 am
October 15, 2009
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Angelayo1970
| | Sysematically breaking all my new year's resolutions | |
| Investigator | posts 162 |
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Does anyone actually know what evidence paranormal teams are basing all this stuff on? Did they read it in some old ghost-hunting manual or something? What originally linked EMF's to Ghosts? I would love to see that evidence…
Rev, I found this on a "ghost hunting" website. I think it answers your question better than I could by paraphrasing. If you are interested in reading the whole article, here is the link:
http://www.torontoghosts.org/index.php?/20080823504/Information-For-Ghost-Researchers-Enthusiasts/The-Great-EMF-Myth.html
If not, here is the paragraph I found pretty interesting:
"It seems that the origin of electromagnetic Fields (a theory suggested by Michael Faraday in the 1830's and proven, more or less, by James Clerk Maxwell in the latter nineteenth century) and the paranormal come not from ghostly origins but from UFOlogy. Bernard Newman's "The Flying Saucer" (1950) put forward that electromagnetic energy would be a good idea to propel saucers. The human brain also has it's own emissions of extra-low-frequency (ELF) electromagnetic waves at a frequency between 1 and 30 hertz but then again, so does the planet Earth as a whole.
UFO Researcher Paul Devereux put forward that playing with the brain's EM fields would cause one to hallucinate and therefore make the person see all kinds of nifty things.
So where did the concept of EMF = Ghostly Activity spur from?
Well, other than CSICOP and like "so-called-sceptical" groups using Dr. Persinger's work to say we're all hallucinating, it seems that the REAL first account comes from the 1970's movie "The Legend of Hell House" in which a scientific researcher vows he can clear a haunted mansion by the use of this enormous machine he has set up that he says will send out an electromagnetic pulse through the home thus clearing the ghost."
So…in actuality, the "scientific" method that TAPS uses so often came from a somewhat sub-par 70's horror movie! I wonder if they know…but somehow I doubt it. But it does explain (if they DO know) why they say "There's this theory…" instead of "Well, according to 'The Legend of Hell House'…".
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"In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual." -Galileo Galilei
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6:53 am
October 15, 2009
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Nosfer
| | Rotaredom | |
| Moderator
| posts 2957 |
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Revenant said:
They don't get an EMF spike and then see a ghost (supposedly caught on video or not). They don't get an EMF spike and link it to any particular EVP. They literally believe that a fluctuation in any EMF actually IS a ghost. How do you argue against such nonsense?
I'm not going to rule out EMF being associated with paranormal activity (I've found no evidence myself) but they (GH and a large percentage of at least televised hunters…and many non-televised hunters) have come to accept this as proven fact. It's not. But instead of collecting evidence to prove or disprove it by setting out multiple types of equipment and corroborating the readings, they are now using it as if it has already been proven.
The simple thing I suggested above (you're right Rev what team is going to do that???) or variations of it, would be a step forward and above anything we've seen them do. But yet they still don't do it…why? (rhetorical, I think we all know WHY! LOL)
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Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.
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3:01 am
October 16, 2009
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Revenant
| | Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage" | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1393 |
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Learjet said:
Never the less, when ordinary folk get their K-II meter to light up, no amount of reason it seems will convince them it could be something other than a ghost.
Amen, brother. It's just so intrinsically sad when I see this behavior.
Angie- Excellent job on the link. That's probably one of the smartest and rational articles that I've seen on a paranormal website…and that's saying a great deal since I've been to a ton of them (yes, I'm a glutton for punishment ). I like the compass idea. I believe, long ago, that maybe either Learjet or Nosfer brought that idea up. And I think, in general, all of us agreed with it. Either go big and get high tech (and yes, very expensive) EMF detection gear (and more than just one) or just use a compass. I mean they aren't recording the readings of their toy meters and crunching the numbers, so…save a couple of bucks and use a compass.
Nosfer- Again…amen, brother. I read your other comments about the same sort of thing in a Ghost Lab thread too. I think we're of the same mind that we're certainly not against the idea of testing theories…it's just that maybe all of us are getting a bit aggravated over the fact that no one is testing things in a rational way and crossing anything off the list. Everything and anything is wide open for "interpretation" and all the "well…it could be possible…" kind of nonsense needlessly continues. Like many of us have said in various ways in many threads…stop the craziness, hunker down, and do some honest science.
SIde-Note: "Not crossing anything off the list" is a bit unfair. Orbs, for the most, perhaps have not been entirely crossed off the list, but they are generally looked down upon by the paranormal community. So I'm willing to give them that one…
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"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
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6:11 am
October 16, 2009
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Mary
| | Pondering what you're pondering | |
| Investigator | posts 147 |
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Mugs said:
Oh great I can see it now, Techmangler Steve and his side-kick 'yes boy' Tango will be wearing lab coats on their spin-off show with TAPS Academy stamped over the left-breast pocket: that will be holding Steve's favorite tool – an EMF meter – and a pen-sized flashlight in on of those pocket protector things. Of course the coat will be black or at least dark gray, since black 'apparently' is Stevie boys favorite color given how frequently he wears black. Dr. Gonzalez and Dr. Tango I persume?
LOL! And I can see Bill Nye, the Science Guy, tied up in a chair in the background, a gag in his mouth as he tries desperately to point out to the unsuspecting audience that the EMF's aren't being used properly…
Bill – "MMMMMmmmmm!" (bounces up and down as he is tied to the chair)
Steve – "Tango, make Bill shut up. He's annoying me." (shines his flashlight in general direction of Bill)
Tango – "Uh, how am I supposed to do that? He's already got a gag in his mouth."
Steve – "Do I have to do everything around here?" (takes empty plastic bucket and puts it over Bill's head, which makes Bill's 'mmmmmm's" sound muffled. "See? Now Bill is gone. That's how you fix things. Use your brain."
Tango – "But Bill isn't gone, he's just under a bucket."
Steve – "If I say he's gone, he's gone. Facts are irrelevent. Remember that, Tango, and you'll go a long way on this show."
Tango – "You are my hero, Steve."
Steve- "Of course I am."
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"Quando omni flunkus moritati" ("When all else fails, play dead") – Possum Lodge motto. Jason and Grant should adopt it as their own.
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8:14 am
October 16, 2009
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HollyDolly
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| Investigator | posts 194 |
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Mary, what a great post! I never laughed so hard before.
But your right,that's for sure.
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