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9:53 am
April 1, 2011
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Nosfer
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Learjet said:
In the bakery area the EM fields are so high they are being picked up through the camera. I can't quite tell if this an audible sound or actual EM intrusion into the video equipment.
The EM was at lot higher amounts, but the Prowlers in DS1 played havoc on the video equipment of the press during night launches, too lol
I'm still trying to find out more on the ozone possibility. So far the only thing I've found is a reference to an experiment in Quarterly Review of Biology where a researcher was able to get a dog to detect which of two boxes contained an electrical current. He supposed that the dog was detecting the ozone. Unfortunately I can only find references to it and not the article itself.
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10:30 am
April 1, 2011
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Learjet
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| Lead Investigator | posts 1122 |
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I think we're on a wild dog chase here because we don't know what Jason used to train his dog. He keeps talking about, and I quote "high magnetic fields". What did he do, stick a magnet on the ceiling? 
Magnetic fields are not the same as electromagnetic fields. Steve has no idea of anything, Jason is worse, so doG only knows what mad dog was really trained to detect in the first place.
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10:48 am
April 1, 2011
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Nosfer
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Post edited 9:35 pm – April 2, 2011 by Nosfer
Learjet said:
I think we're on a wild dog chase here because we don't know what Jason used to train his dog.
Furthermore, we don't know when Jason even had the time to train his dog…which he got probably sometime in November from what I can see, possibly a little earlier but can see no references to her before 6 November 2010. This particular episode was filmed in January (!) If we're going with scents, it looks like about 2 to 6 months of solid training for things like drug sniffing, truffle sniffing and so on.
So between commercial haunting events, filming GH (which we know they did in the latter months of 2010, especially December), etc, WHEN did he have time to train her?
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2:44 am
April 2, 2011
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Revenant
| | Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage" | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1393 |
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Nosfer said:
Not that Jason would think of this method, but, back to smells, could a dog be trained to detect ozone? I'd bet yes.
Sure…then again, you don't even need a dog for that. Ozone in the air kind of smells like chlorine bleach…very stark and crisp.
(Fun fact about ozone…when you get that gas super cold, it turns to a dark blue liquid, quite beautiful actually. Just don't let it warm back up to its boiling point…or…ka-BOOM! Fun with cryogenic temperatures…  )
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"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
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9:48 am
April 2, 2011
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Nosfer
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Revenant said:
Sure…then again, you don't even need a dog for that. Ozone in the air kind of smells like chlorine bleach…very stark and crisp.
I'm was thinking along the lines of very small quantities in the air, less than what the less-sensitive human nose could pick up, but easily in the range of what a dog's schnoz could. But you're right, you just don't need a dog to detect it and the number of false-positives and true-negatives could be high…but I guess no higher than the K2 the way that they use it
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10:31 am
April 2, 2011
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Learjet
| | Australia | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1122 |
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Nosfer said:
… false-positives and true-negatives could be high…but I guess no higher than the K2 the way that they use it
That's one of the main issues with these people. It's not going to matter what they use. The K2 works fine for what it was designed for. You could give them laboratory grade equipment and they will find a way to use it improperly.
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11:04 am
April 2, 2011
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Nosfer
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Maddie wasn't their first choice, apparently Jason was planning to do this with Tucker but did not.
"New
puppy is working out great. So smart already. We named him Tuck.
Australian shepherd. Going to see about training him to bring on cases." This was January of last year.
http://twitter.com/Jchawes/sta…..8322325208
"Ok, I got the Australian Shepard. Think I am going to train him to hunt ghosts with TAPS and me. "
http://twitter.com/Jchawes/sta…..8290344498
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10:41 am
April 3, 2011
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Nosfer
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Here's a little timeline of events:
- 06 Nov – First photo of Maddie, I assume this is about the time he got her. http://www.facebook.com/photo……amp;ref=nf
- 09 Nov – Driving somewhere with Grant
- 10 Nov – Watching "a bunch of DVR'd episodes of the Dog Whisperer"
- 14 Nov – Building a fence
- 23 Nov – Driving his Dodge
- 29 Nov-04 Dec – Going to Louisiana and Georgia and investigating (season premier and the mint)
- 12-17 Dec – NH to MA to RI to MA to CA to TX to LA to Home
- 03 Jan – Heading to SD for Maddies first TV investigation
Interestingly, this adds up to the 8 weeks that he says he had trained her. But, you tell me how he's going to get 8 weeks of solid/proper training in between 06 Nov 2010 and 03 Jan 2011 considering everything else he was doing? I suppose those two week stints that he was out to LA, GA, NH, and TX are going to be considered the "training" on a few previous investigations, but a lot of that is travel which is going to play havoc with the training. We've already seen the Louisiana ones and they must not have felt the Maddie scenes were worth doing.
Eight weeks might be enough for standard obedience training but as I mentioned above, getting into scent or use training is going to take a lot longer and would be in addition to the obedience training. So, in short, I have a lot of trouble believing she's a fully-trained EMF-sniffer, even if Jason had come up with the potential methods of detecting a limited set of EMF types.
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11:23 am
April 4, 2011
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Revenant
| | Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage" | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1393 |
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Post edited 11:26 am – April 4, 2011 by Revenant
Post edited 11:26 am – April 4, 2011 by Revenant
Nosfer said:
Eight weeks might be enough for standard obedience training but as I mentioned above, getting into scent or use training is going to take a lot longer and would be in addition to the obedience training. So, in short, I have a lot of trouble believing she's a fully-trained EMF-sniffer, even if Jason had come up with the potential methods of detecting a limited set of EMF types.
That's a pretty nice piece of detective work there, Nosfer.
And…you're absolutely right. We're not talking about just a typical eight week training period, we're talking about the first eight weeks after actually adopting the dog. First and foremost, even beyond all the EMF claims, Jason does get points for adopting a dog from a shelter. It would pain me to no end if he had gotten a pure breed pup for this nonsense. Anyway…
In that same time frame, the dog is acclimating to the family, to the other dogs, and to her new surroundings. At this point, you're really just reinforcing basic commands and expounding upon them. Teaching a dog something extremely exotic at that point, well…that would come down to the individual dog. Overall though, I wouldn't recommend it and I would doubt that it would work all that well.
And again, for those who don't know much about dogs or dog training…what Jason is claiming is…hard to swallow. Training a dog to "detect" EMF just isn't done. There isn't a point to it. You're not going to find any training manuals or anything online that will detail this type of training method because they don't exist. I've had time now to talk to a couple of dog trainers and they had…"colorful responses" as to what Jason is doing and claiming (for reasons that we've already stated). It's like training a dog to "detect" left-handed clowns with only blue hair and are over six feet tall. I mean, I guess you could…but…you know…why? There's just no point to any of this…
Lastly, I find it odd that the GH/Syfy lists Maddie as an Australian Cattle Dog/German Shepard mix while in Jason's tweet that Nosfer found, he correctly says Australian Shepard. The Cattle Dog is an entirely different breed and I don't see that at all in her. Definitely an Australian Shepard/German Shepard mix. For some reason, that mix is really popular and you see it all the time. In another thread, someone mentioned a Catahoula Cur (or Catahoula Leopard dog). I'd even believe that before the Cattle dog. It's not a big deal…but just another example of how this group (TAPS or Syfy) can't get the simplest of facts correct.
EDITED: For spelling…the bane of my existence…
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"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
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2:31 pm
April 4, 2011
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Nosfer
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Actually, Jason does refer to her (Maddie) as an Australian Cattle Dog/German Shepherd. He refers to Tucker as the Australian Shepherd (the twits I posted above were about Tucker rather than Maddie…I was wondering why he didn't follow through with the TAPS Tucker Training)
Here is one where he is referring to Maddie as an Australian Cattle Dog/German Shepherd:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=458639576878&set=a.401316921878.182865.185079226878&theater
"And because I know a lot will ask,lol, She is Australian cattle dog and German shepherd mix. Very Smart and also good to have herd the kids to where I want them.lmao.."
When you look at the root stock (Australian Cattle Dog vs Australian Shepherd, forget the German Shepherd for the moment) Maddie looks to me to have more of the characteristics of the cattle dog than the shepherd. For example, ears carried erect and eyes more round/oval vs the almond shape of both of the Shepherds.
http://www.akc.org/breeds/aust…../index.cfm
http://www.akc.org/breeds/aust…../index.cfm
The pure Shepherd (Australian) is a lot more Border Collie-like in appearance (see the one that Axel posted earlier above) Throw the GSD in, though, and you complicate the genes a lot!
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9:00 pm
April 4, 2011
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Axel Olrik
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One of my GSD is physically very similar to Maddie. A bit ACD looking actually.
She is from working lines imported from the Netherlands and looks nothing like the "typical" show German Shepherd. I adopted her from the people who had imported her whole litter to use in protection work. Since I knew nothing about "attack" training and she was already trained when I got her, I had to take classes from a police trainer. Anyway the policeman was very impressed by her and said she looked just like his first GSD partner. However, everyone else, including the vet, keeps asking if she is really all GSD. There is quite a heated controversy among GSD breeders about the AKC standard and its effect on the breed, especially the extreme rear angulation.
So I can accept that Maddie is an GSD/ACD cross, but the expression of the merle gene in that background is really unusual. That is why I thought she might be a Catahoula Leopard Dog cross.
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12:18 pm
April 5, 2011
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Revenant
| | Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage" | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1393 |
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Nosfer said:
When you look at the root stock (Australian Cattle Dog vs Australian Shepherd, forget the German Shepherd for the moment) Maddie looks to me to have more of the characteristics of the cattle dog than the shepherd. For example, ears carried erect and eyes more round/oval vs the almond shape of both of the Shepherds.
http://www.akc.org/breeds/aust…../index.cfm
http://www.akc.org/breeds/aust…../index.cfm
The pure Shepherd (Australian) is a lot more Border Collie-like in appearance (see the one that Axel posted earlier above) Throw the GSD in, though, and you complicate the genes a lot!
I understand what you are saying and you could be right. It's just my opinion. You are basing it on how the ACD and the ASD look. Good basis. I'm going a step beyond that. Years back I volunteered at a couple of shelters. The mixing and matching of breeds really interested me. Volunteering at these places allowed me to see a great many dogs. I like to look at what a specific breed brings to the genetic table.
For example, breed an ACD with any breed and odds are (VERY subjective) the skull becomes broader, a bit wider and flatter. Also, the ACD derives its power from the front, thus when bred the resulting pups tend to have broader front shoulders. Now breed an ASD with any breed and you get a sleeker, thinner skull. And as opposed to the dog being "front-loaded" the pup is more balanced (the width of the front shoulders is equal to the hind end).
The shape of the eyes…I tend to throw that out. I found that eye shape was a real coin-toss…with multiple coins (). I'm thinking (and I have NO evidence of this) that perhaps the gene that controls that aspect can really pull from both dogs' histories. I've seen eye shapes that had nothing to do with the parents. Eye color…I will look at if the color is very unusual.
As far as coloring, both the ACD and ASD can have wild color schemes. And Axel, yeah…I instantly thought about the Catahoula too when I first saw the dog. But it's just the coloring, the rest of the dog isn't a match. I do like giving the Catahoula a shout-out though. A really great dog that many people aren't familiar with.
So overall, well…I still think ASD over ACD. Am I right? Without a DNA test, we'll never know. Does it really matter? Not really. It's been fun though. I love trying to figure out cross-bred dogs…as long as they have some size. Not a fan of the toy breeds…a dog that I can throw for 30 yards isn't much of a dog… :P
PS (and getting off topic)- Axel, I'm not in favor of the GSD's extreme rear angulation. It looks a bit odd and I just can't see how that's good in the long run for the dog's spine. I also don't see how that doesn't add to the hip dysplasia problem. But in any event…just fantastic dogs. Smart, strong, full of life…just great dogs. As opposed to Jack Russell Terriers…spawn of Satan they are…
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"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
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7:13 pm
April 11, 2011
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The Doctor
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| Lead Investigator | posts 488 |
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HollyDolly said:
There are plenty of places right where I live and throughout the country that have genuine hauntings.
Hi Holly – been a long time since I've been here, but noticed your post.
Have I missed something ? Are there "genuine hauntings" ?
Can you link me to where the criteria for "genuine" is ?
.. or perhaps maybe to a list of those hauntings that meet your criteria for the " genuine " stamp ?
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7:42 pm
April 11, 2011
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The Doctor
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Please excuse me if I'm 'way off base – haven't been here in a long while and have NOT seen the latest shows- but –
WHATEVER a dog can be trained for, to sniff out EMF or ozone or simply to respond to some hidden command by the "talent" tells us nothing.
Without some proof that whatever they are being trained for IS something created ONLY by the paranormal, you MUST list every possible "normal" occurance of that, and satisfy skeptics that a non-paranormal explanation was not possible.
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2:10 pm
April 12, 2011
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skeptiCat
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Sorry I've been MIA…I took a break from GHI/GH and finally they go to Mackinaw Island-lol.
I grew up just south of there, spent senior skip day on Mackinac Island, actually stayed at the Mission Point Hotel back in the late 80's as a teen for a conference. Needless to say, I was excited to see any of the TV teams finally investigate somewhere on the island though I would have liked to seen other places on the island.
As to the comment about Steve being stuck for a couple more weeks if they couldn't get the boat back, they didn't mention that he would have been coming back via snowmobile-lol….that is how how they get back & forth once the ice gets thick enough in the straights. At least the island is very quiet this time year as it is really a summer time resort place, though there are some (few hundred) year round residents that live in the town, which is a ways away from the resort. Plus the ice cuts down on the sounds of water interfering or sound traveling over the water from other nearby islands in the summer time. Also, no auto are allowed on the island except for extremely limited emergency vehicles & rarely road construction. You get around in the summer time via foot, bike or horse; in the winter time, snowmobiles are the best way.
Sound stage is where Somewhere In Time was shot, with Christopher Reeves & Jane Seymour. Curtains moving….they are there in the winter time, no heat, not a big temp difference between outside & inside. But what happens in the summer time when its much hotter & much more humid outside then inside? The old case of the attacking shower curtain. Double recording with the EVP questions being recorded then played & being rerecorded totally opens them up for double the amount of contamination IMHO.
Theater- I'm glad they didn't hear anything on the stage as I know the floor boards are not that great. Miss Michigan got both her heals caught in the space between the boards & landed flat on her face when we where there. Voice they caught in the theater sounded more like local wildlife to me. Having grown up in the area, it sounded totally natural to me, possibly an owl.
Overall Mackinac Island has a long history of weird stuff. It went back & forth between British, French Canadian & US control starting in 1700's. Before that, it was an important place for Native Americans. The fort on the island was involved in 2 battles of the War of 1812.
One interesting place is Skull Cave, which looks a lot like a skull. In 1763, fur trader Alexander Henry took refuge in the cave to escape capture by Native Americans. This is what he wrote about the night he spend there in his memoirs:
On going into the cave, of which the entrance was nearly ten feet wide,
I found the further end to be rounded in its shape, like that of an
oven, but with a further aperture, too small, however, to be explored.
After thus looking around me, I broke small branches from the trees and
spread them for a bed, then wrapped myself in my blanket and slept till
day-break. On awaking, I felt myself incommoded by some object upon
which I lay, and, removing it, found it to be a bone. This I supposed
to be that of a deer, or some other animal, and what might very
naturally be looked for in the place in which I was; but when daylight
visited my chamber I discovered, with some feelings of horror, that I
was lying on nothing less than a heap of human bones and skulls, which covered the floor!
I've had some personal experience on Mackinac Island I've never been able to explain so I do believe there is something going there. Just too many weird things & weird vibes to not be.
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