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6:16 am July 2, 2009
| avidmike
Investigator in Training
| | Florida | |
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| posts 20 |
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I discovered this website recently and have been reading the comments about GH and their production company Pilgrim. I am a retired Producer with 40 years experience in Broadcast Radio and Television. I've been personally involved in the production of live and pre-taped television programs seen all around the world. I feel that I can shed a little light on some of the comments and questions I've seen posted here.
You would be surprised at how often results are altered. Early in my career I was a camera operator for a well known fishing show that, at the time, aired on ESPN Sunday mornings. I was not the Producer of the shoot just one of two cameramen. The host of the show was fishing with a guide from the guide's boat and I was in a second camera boat. The Producer and the primary cameraman were in a third boat about 90 degrees from my position.
The host hooked what appeared to be a monster fish and it was exciting looking through the eyepiece of my camera as he fought the fish. However, just as the guide was leaning over to gaff the fish the line broke and the fish swam off. At this point the Producer called "cut" and had his boat move along side the guide's boat where a mini-conference with the host ensued. I was surprised when I saw the guide reach into a bait well and remove a large fish and attach it to the host's fishing line and toss it back in the water. The Producer repositioned his boat and called "action" and the host began to reel in the replacement fish. The guide gaffed it and the host lifted it up to our cameras as if it was the same fish he had been fighting previously.
Was this deceptive? Some would say yes. The host did fight the original fish and almost had it in the boat until his line snapped and his actions, reactions and comments during were clever and exciting. It was unfortunate that the line snapped and the Producer didn't want to waste the nearly 10 minute build-up without delivering the "money shot" payoff. I understood why it was done because it is expensive to produce a 30 minute show.
This is not done all of the time but it is done when necessary. The viewer is entertained. The host looks like a stud. The guide gets free publicity. The Producer saves money and we all get paid. All in all it was a good day on the water.
Most 30 minute shows require 22 minutes of content leaving 8 minutes for commercials. Back in the eighties I was being paid $20/hour plus travel, lodging and meals. I saw Producers tie a plastic gallon jug filled with water to a line so that the host or guest, usually someone semi-famous, could pretend to fight a fish for a few minutes until he called "cut" and a real fish from the bait well was substituted for the plastic jug. Time is money especially in television. If the show doesn't end with the host or guest holding up the fish then the viewer is cheated. That is the mindset of the Producer.
I've seen golf pros take a half-dozen attempts at hitting a ball out of a sand trap until it either falls into the cup or stops inches away. Of course, the way it winds up being edited, it looks like the pro made the shot the first try.
I understand why GH and Pilgrim do what they do, if they do. Television is all about the benjamins.
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7:20 am July 2, 2009
| Nosfer
Moderator
| | Rotagitsevni Dael | |
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| posts 1480 |
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Thanks for the insight into some of the production happenings!
And people wonder why extraordinary claims made from a TV show require extra-extraordinary proof. In the grand scheme of things the gallon jug being fought makes for good entertainment…and if that's all the show is claiming to be. Well, it's still dishonest but I'm not as critical.
If a show is claiming to be of a scientific nature and the people on it claim over and over that what they are doing is real and that they are paranormal investigators, then using a gallon jug to simulate a ghost is not acceptable. Altering a scene viz a viz the Manson FLIR is not acceptable, no matter WHO is involved. I just don't see what is so hard about that for some people to understand. But oh well!
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9:40 am July 2, 2009
| The Doctor
Lead Investigator
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I think the difference is that the golf pro CAN hit the ball into the cup and the fishing pro actually DOES catch fish.
On the contrary, the Ghost Hunters have not been able to produce convincing evidence that there ARE in fact fish to catch.
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12:08 pm July 2, 2009
| Revenant
Lead Investigator
| | Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage" | |
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| posts 933 |
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Avidmike- First, hello and welcome. Thanks for dropping by and giving us a look at the "behind the scenes." Very gracious of you to do so.
I agree with the others. I really have no problems with that sort of thing done in most shows. I'm sure when it comes to reality type shows that many things are re-shot in order to show something that may have been missed. But as Nosfer said, TAPS is making claims of a scientific nature. By doing so, they must be held to a stricter standard. I don't believe that anyone who watched "I'm A Celebrity, Get Me Out Of Here!" was expecting to discover any new universal truths. Re-shoot Stephen Baldwin rambling on about whatever he rambles on about a million times until he actually says something funny. No one cares and I think everyone kind of expects it. Yet, go on TV and say that you have scientific evidence of the paranomal…that's a whole other ball of wax.
Back to the example of the fishing show, well…fish are real. There are no questions as to their existence. There are no debates as to what they are, where they are, and what they can do. For ghosts…I can't say the same thing.
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5:08 pm July 2, 2009
| alicat
Lead Investigator
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avidmike,
Welcome. I do agree with those that posted their comments on this thread. GH/TAPS should be held to a different standard. Yes, it's all about the benjamins and in the world of "reality tv", especially on cable, these shows are cheap to produce and bring in the revenue. That's why we see so many of these shows on tv nowadays and why, when there is a strike, production is rarely shut down. No worries about unions or payscales. I do remember salaries for cameramen back in the 80's as I was responsible for recommending operators for movie, television and commercial shoots. Nowadays, some of these old friends locally have a rate (10 hr. day) of $2,000 - $2,500. Quite a difference between then and now.
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9:51 pm July 2, 2009
| Stephen
Moderator
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| posts 509 |
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Welcome AvidMike! It's good to have someone with such a production pedigree around here.
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12:31 pm July 4, 2009
| avidmike
Investigator in Training
| | Florida | |
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| posts 20 |
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Something I noticed about J & G doesn't make sense to me. That is: why they feel the need to point their cameras at themselves instead of in the direction they are exploring? It is not just on GH but most of the other paranormal shows as well.
If I was exploring an area and heard a noise or caught a moving shadow in my peripheral vision I'm sure I would instinctively point my camera in that direction if for no other reason than to prove to myself that I wasn't seeing or hearing things. J & G don't seem to have those instincts and I can see on many wide-shots from the third cameraman that they often have their cameras pointed at the floor. What a waste of an opportunity and videotape.
Another pet peeve of mine has to do with equipment. In my experience there was nothing more embarrasing than forgetting a microphone, camera battery, etc., and having to ask the client to wait while I run back to my truck to get what I should have had in my photographers vest or fanny pack. In the world of ENG and EFP(Electronic News Gathering and Electronic Field Production)it shouldn't happen, especially in News where you might miss action or information taking place while on your way to or from your equipment truck. News doesn't stop and wait for you to be ready and I doubt the paranormal does either.
If J & G were smart they would have all of their equipment with them all of the time including extra batteries, extra videotape(unless they use a harddrive camera) plus their assortment of meters and gauges. I am not sure how long they have been searching for the paranormal but I would think they would learn by experience how necessary and portable these items are. It seems like they have an extra cameraman and audio tech following them around, I'm sure they could lug some of this equipment for them.
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2:55 pm July 4, 2009
| Stephen
Moderator
| | San Jose, CA | |
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Yes, the "Did you see that?!" "No, because the camera was pointed at YOU!" effect has been a pet peeve of ours for a while. The GH team used to carry their own cameras with them more often, but have gradually stopped for no stated reason.
The production crew is separate from TAPS, and seems to take the view that they're there to shoot a show about ghost hunters, not about ghosts. So, basically, no one's trying to film ghosts with portable cameras any more.
Of course, aside from the FLIR, TAPS tends to use consumer-grade equipment. I'm sure that as SyFy (grr!)'s number one show, they could upgrade if they wished.
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1:19 pm July 8, 2009
| dconlly
Investigator in Training
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"If J & G were smart they would have all of their equipment with them all of the time including extra batteries, extra videotape(unless they use a harddrive camera) plus their assortment of meters and gauges."
That pretty much says it all. I would like to go one step further and say if they are so called scientific that they would encourage debate about their evidence, provide their results to be peer reviewed, and actually promote the scientific method.
Using electronic gadgets with flashing lights does not make you an electrical engineer. Nor, does claiming to utilizing scientific instruments make you a scientist.
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8:25 am July 9, 2009
| avidmike
Investigator in Training
| | Florida | |
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| posts 20 |
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I was wondering if someone on this site could help me locate the Production company PILGRIM? I did a google search and could not find a website for them, just an "under construction" page from network solutions. I thought they were located in the same area as TAPS but I could be wrong as I've just discovered these shows in the last few months and have not seen the entire collection of shows from beginning to current. I would appreciate any help. 
Yesterday my wife and I watched most of the GHI Marathon and were continually annoyed by the VOLUME of the background music. It seemed that everytime one of the investigators would say, "Did you hear that?" it was impossible for us to hear anything but the music.
As an editor I have a keen interest in the production of these programs and it has been my experience that background music is intended to enhance a mood but not dominate it. I fear that Pilgrim has not learned this as all they accomplished was, after watching the first two GHI shows in yesterday's line-up, triggering my wife to start yelling at our television set. LOL!
I'm a very quiet and patient man, as most editors are, and I tried my best to calm my wife down by explaining that Pilgrim was probably editing in a room with very large speakers. I was taught that it is best to edit audio using the smallest speakers available because not everyone watching at home can afford the surround sound and may only have the tiny speakers that come standard in their discount store tv sets. Editing audio through small speakers is still a practice I use today. I suspect that Pilgrim does not but I could be wrong. It is a question I would like to ask them.
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9:18 am July 9, 2009
| alicat
Lead Investigator
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avidmike,
I'm surprised you couldn't find the production company. Must have been a google problem. The company is Pilgrim Films and Television, Inc. and they are based in Sherman Oaks, CA, not anywhere near TAPS. Here's a link to their website: http://www.pilgrim-films.com/. Trust me, they usually do not answer emails - even generic ones.
As far as the volume of the background music, you and your wife are not incorrect. It's not unusual for GH or GHI to pump up the volume as it hides what they are supposedly telling us they hear. It's edited that way to be used as pure camouflage - always was and always will be. That is one thing you can count on with these shows.
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9:22 am July 9, 2009
| Learjet
Lead Investigator
| | Australia | |
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| posts 655 |
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The music is a total pain. There's even music complaint threads on the TAPS forums. Just goes to show what a B grade production this is.
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