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7:54 am
May 5, 2009
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alicat
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| Lead Investigator | posts 1215 |
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I would like to share with everyone a short series of emails between the State of Rhode Island, Department of Labor, Division of Licensing, Plumbing. I am posting them here with the permission of the individual who represents the State and I thank that individual for their timely response. I have only omitted names and complete email addresses as a courtesy even though I was given permission to share this information. Oh, by the way, I also checked with MA and CT (which are the closest work locations) and neither state has any records for plumber licenses for either J or G. Also, an apprentice in RI has to work 2,000 hrs. under supervision which is just 2 weeks shy of 1 year. I am sure the reaction by GH will be "it's just a tv show".
Here you go:
"Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 9:40 PM
To: ____@dlt.ri.gov
Subject: Plumbers License Question
Dear Mr. ____,
I am writing to enquire about the personal claims on television, radio, press releases, publications, etc. by Jason Hawes and Grant Wilson, the Sci Fi Network and Pilgrim Films, et al who have stated verbally and in writing for the last 5 years that Mr. Hawes and Mr. Wilson presently work and did work prior to 2005, as plumbers for Roto Rooter (I believe out of Providence) or any other plumbing company in Rhode Island. After reviewing the Department's list of licensed plumbers, I can find absolutely no verification of any plumber's license in Rhode Island being issued for either Mr. Hawes or Mr. Wilson which I understand is a State requirement. Both profess they are plumbers in conjunction with the television program "Ghost Hunters" and/or TAPS (The Atlantic Paranormal Society) where they presently rent office space in Warwick.
While I understand and appreciate the fact that they bring celebrity to the State, Roto Rooter endorses and supports the "plumbers" claim by allowing Mr. Hawes and Mr. Wilson to be shown (in the Roto Rooter "uniform" and trucks) in the set up of most episodes. Generally they are shown working on some sort of plumbing problem or installing a dishwasher, etc. It is my belief they are merely doing service technician work while claiming to the public to be plumbers. Roto Rooter is also featured prominently in the closing credits which they may or not pay for as advertising costs but for which I cannot be certain.
I would appreciate a response from you as to whether the information I have presented to you is complete and accurate.
Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter.
__________________
In a message dated 5/5/2009 8:32:39 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, pluther@dlt.ri.gov writes:
Dear __,
This is the second letter I have gotten about these guys. Mr. Hawes was a registered apprentice in RI. Prior to 2005 and I have no info on Mr. Wilson. These episodes are not filmed in RI they go to different places Roto Rooter has assured me that these men do not work for the RI division. And I have no record that they do. If they work in RI they must be licensed Plumbers to install a dishwasher. Your info is correct If you have any more questions you can reach me at _____. Pat
____________________________
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 9:41 AM
To: _____@dlt.ri.gov
Subject: Re: Plumbers License Question
Thank you for your very prompt reply. I thought as much. Your response certainly verifies my findings. Interesting that you have received another request for this information. If you don't mind, I would like your permission to share this information. Please let me know if this is acceptable to you.
Best regards,
_______________________
That’s fine with me good luck."
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8:58 am
May 5, 2009
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Wes
| | Spaulding Inn, Room 38 | |
| Investigator | posts 142 |
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Interesting … what I'd guess is what's happening is that, like many other companies, Roto Rooter basically franchises its name to local plumbers across the country. They ARE supposed to be licensed, however, so I don't know what Roto Rooter would care to say about that … I do know that it's not uncommon for many tradespeople who are supposed to be licensed to not be, but still consider themselves to be plumbers, electricians or whatever (sort of like "Joe the (unlicensed) Plumber" from the last election)
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"The truth shall bear all light."
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9:28 am
May 5, 2009
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alicat
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| Lead Investigator | posts 1215 |
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Wes, this is from Roto Rooter's home page:
"Roto-Rooter operates businesses in more than 100 company-owned branch and contractor territories and approximately 500 franchise operations, serving approximately 90% of the U.S."
What we are being fed not only on camera verbally but visually by J&G and GH is that they are flat out telling us they RR plumbers in RI and RR is fostering that image by endorsing the program as seen in the credits. We are shown them "working" in the RR uniform and driving RR trucks all the while making statements about being right around the corner or heading back to the TAPS office. If you look at the "Grant is on Twitter" forum, you will see a friend of Grant's got blocked/banned for even asking about having a license/being a plumber.
The key here is the State of RI contacted RR and they denied it. It is RR's reputation and I'm guessing they too were asked about this since situation since both Roto Rooter and the State of RI deny either work for them in RI or are plumbers in RI. So, the question arises, as to why RR allows them to portray themselves in that fashion. If RR wants advertising, then GH should state that it is an outright commercial and that they are not plumbers, they just play them on tv. There is a major difference. I cannot call myself a lawyer just because I have worked in a law office and know the law. And, I cannot give out legal advice because I would get sued. While I do understand there are those that do not have scruples and call themselves what they are not, these people do not go on television, make declarations, write or publicize they are plumbers in this fashion. If they did, that would be fraud. What makes Jason or Grant different? As far as, Joe "the plumber", he did not give himself that title. It was a description given to him. He didn't ask or seek the publicity.
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9:32 am
May 5, 2009
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Mary
| | Pondering what you're pondering | |
| Investigator | posts 147 |
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I know in my State, you do not have to be licensed as a plumber, electrician, etc, IF you are working FOR a licensed plumber, etc. Maybe this is the case with Jason and Grant. Perhaps they were working for someone that is licensed by the State of RI, and wishes to remain anonymous. (Can you blame him?)
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"Quando omni flunkus moritati" ("When all else fails, play dead") – Possum Lodge motto. Jason and Grant should adopt it as their own.
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9:50 am
May 5, 2009
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Wes
| | Spaulding Inn, Room 38 | |
| Investigator | posts 142 |
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uhmm, "Joe the plumber" is currently on a national speaking tour, so he certainly is seeking publicity now. 
Also, Roto Rooter officials have previously said Jay and Grant do work for them:
http://www.skepticalanalysis.com/reports/ghosts/roto-rooter.html
And to be fair, they were described as plumbers before the GH show ever aired, as in this 2002 New York Times article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/31/garden/don-t-say-ghostbuster-say-spirit-plumber.html?pagewanted=1
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"The truth shall bear all light."
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9:50 am
May 5, 2009
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alicat
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| Lead Investigator | posts 1215 |
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No Mary, I am afraid not. I verified it. You cannot work under anyone's license and be called a plumber. For the purposes of this case, that is the law in RI, CT, MA, and NH. I cannot comment on your State because I don't know where you live. I am taking your word on it that they don't need to be licensed but that sounds rather odd to me. I have never heard you didn't need a license for this "trade" or for electricians. All states have rules and regulations for insurance purposes and require licenses for the trades. Codes need to be followed and building inspectors and homeowners want to see those licenses and insurance certificates. Perhaps the people working for the licensed plumbers are apprentices but even they have to be licensed as an apprentice and in RI, they need to put in at least 2,000 hrs. to be called an apprentice. They can be technicians who are learning the trade but not a Apprentice, JG or MG plumber. As the State of RI said, even to install a dishwasher you need a license although homeowners do it themselves but they don't boast and call themselves plumbers.
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10:20 am
May 5, 2009
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Wes
| | Spaulding Inn, Room 38 | |
| Investigator | posts 142 |
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Actually, juts a few more minutes of research on the Rhode Island govt. Web site turns this up:
the fact the Jason IS a licensed plumber – for some reason can't make it link, but if you wait a minute ….
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"The truth shall bear all light."
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10:21 am
May 5, 2009
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Hannah
| | Texas | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 361 |
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Good work/investigating, alicat! Why would Grant ban someone for asking a reasonable question? To me, would be a perfect time to straighten it all out. By dodging the question, it makes him look even more suspicious.
Mary: "Perhaps they were working for someone that is licensed by the State of RI, and wishes to remain anonymous. (Can you blame him?)"
Maybe, but why not just say that? They could stop/or at least slow down all the questions about their work for RR. Or simply state that they are techs or whatever, but used a common term, plumber, which most closely defines what they do. RR offered them a commercial deal, they took it. I do not know for certain, but maybe they have to be registered as apprentices to work under a licensed plumber?
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10:27 am
May 5, 2009
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Wes
| | Spaulding Inn, Room 38 | |
| Investigator | posts 142 |
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"The truth shall bear all light."
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10:48 am
May 5, 2009
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alicat
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| Lead Investigator | posts 1215 |
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Wes, double check please. There is no Jason Hawes licensed as a plumber. Don't go giving any credibility to that rumor, even in jest.
As far as Joe the plumber, I don't blame him for taking the opportunity that he was presented with there. No matter what anyone thinks of his politics, he was brutalized by the press for merely standing on his front lawn and asking a statement. I have no problem with him because he didn't stand on his front lawn while beating his chest and declare " I am Joe, the plumber!" I wish him well.
As far as your first link, I too read that awhile back and accepted it as the truth. All we have is a posted question that anyone could have sent but I will accept it was sent by RR. Notice the way the woman signed off at her signature – enjoy the show! This is then followed up with the report of a telephone conversation but also notice the conversation was with "media" representatives. Gee, how convenient. These people write the PR and promotions and are advertising sponsors of GH. What a stretch! 'Ya think?! It was in their best interests to promote the show (forget what they obviously thought was a minor detail in that they are not licensed). I'm guessing that the corporate RR, for fear of losing their license to operate and the fear of being sued, correctly confirmed to the State of RI that they were not plumbers and they did not even work for RR in RI. That's a lie that could be proven in court and they also had a lot riding on the success of GH as well as keeping their mouths shut so they would not put Sci Fi and Pilgrim in jeopardy as well as be sued by them.
Now, the second link is also interesting. Again, this is merely a story written about them. No confirmation of any license – just what the reporter was told. Smoke and mirrors. And, maybe, just maybe, Jason was working as an apprentice at that time in 2002 (this was pre-GH and you only needed to work the equivalent of 2,000 hrs. (1 year) to be an apprentice under a plumber's supervision). However, as confirmed with the State and RR Jason did not have license when GH started and Grant was never licensed at all.
Those are the facts and those facts are confirmed by both RR and the State of Rhode Island – not a conversation with media and not an article written in the paper. Cold, hard facts.
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10:49 am
May 5, 2009
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blinddog
| | Special Agent Zombie Elimination Agency | |
| Moderator
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@wes
All I'm seeing is a Joshua Hawes.
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Double tap to the head. Don't become Undead.
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10:55 am
May 5, 2009
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alicat
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| Lead Investigator | posts 1215 |
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blinddog50 – good catch. I couldn't write it fast enough. I had mentioned elsewhere and posted that link, I mentioned that there was a Joshua Hawes and possibly it was a brother due to the same middle initial. And, for the record, the address given is NOT Jason's (and you can trust me on this too) so please, I implore anyone inclined to do so, not to contact him. This is not his fight.
Sorry Wes but it was a good effort. 
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11:04 am
May 5, 2009
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Hannah
| | Texas | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 361 |
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blinddog50 said:
@wes
All I'm seeing is a Joshua Hawes.
Me, too Wes. "Not on file" for Jason Hawes, ditto for Grant Wilson.
How is your room at the Inn? Any ghosties yet?
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11:13 am
May 5, 2009
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Hannah
| | Texas | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 361 |
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Got to say that middle initial "C" got me going for a minute also. 
Plus, if Jason was really licensed wouldn't he want to ram that fact down someone's throat? Seems as though their tactic has been to ignore the question and hope it goes away.
May have been RR is fully aware of their unlicensed status, and considers them actors in their commercials, and told J & G not to worry about it. All I can say, as thank goodness it wasn't physicians by day and ghost hunters by night. 
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11:14 am
May 5, 2009
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Wes
| | Spaulding Inn, Room 38 | |
| Investigator | posts 142 |
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No ghosts yet, but I'm about to die from this discussion. Yes I was kidding about the registry – that's why I said type in Hawes (not Jason)
The point I was making above was that they have, from any evidence I've seen, made their living as plumbers (and affiliated with Roto Rooter for at least a few years) going back to at least 2002. Do they do much or any plumbing now? Of course not — we've mocked that point to death. But are they really being dishonest to say they were plumbers who now hunt ghosts, who are affiliated with Roto Rooter? I'm still waiting to see the proof that that's a lie.
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"The truth shall bear all light."
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11:25 am
May 5, 2009
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Mary
| | Pondering what you're pondering | |
| Investigator | posts 147 |
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alicat – I think Jason and Grant are taking liberties being called plumbers, for sure! 
But I double-checked with my expert, and yes, in my state a licensed Master Plumber can hire someone without a license to do the work, as long as the building is less than 3,500 square feet, and it is not a commerical building. The work they do is inspected, though. Trust me. I know this for a fact. 
(I'll bet anyone that works for a Master Plumber installing sinks, toilets, etc. will call themselves 'plumbers' if asked their profession, even though they don't have a license to back it up.)
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"Quando omni flunkus moritati" ("When all else fails, play dead") – Possum Lodge motto. Jason and Grant should adopt it as their own.
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11:42 am
May 5, 2009
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alicat
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| Lead Investigator | posts 1215 |
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Wes, please don't die from this discussion. I would be very sad  . I wasn't sure if that was your angle by just saying Hawes and dropping off there or not but I guess I'm like a mother cub when I find a fact I know is 100%.
I understand your point but when you start by lying with something so simple as this, and yes, it is a single, simple fact, it tarnishes everything you say from that point forward. I think that is the point a number of people make on this site about evidence that is presented on GH and why it's not to be believed. Once you start, its tough to stop and it becomes second nature and spreads to those around you (in this case those on GH).
These points may be minor in fact, but when you put all the minor facts that are untruths we've been told by GH together, they add up. It's up to each person to decide whether they want to believe what they are sold when the basis is a lie. I guess it's my nature, but once you lie to me, I'm always going to assume you are going to lie to me again and I have to check out everything you say from that point forward. I think that's why I'm skeptical about a lot of things. I may not have a scientific or technical background but I do have a good sense of people and when they are being truthful or not and from what I've seen and heard, I think you know what side I'm coming down on regarding GH. I do have hope but it's just hope that one day something may happen on GH that I can believe but I think I'll believe the people I trust when they tell me about the experiences they have had as this would be a pretty sorry world if we thought we knew everything.
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11:46 am
May 5, 2009
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alicat
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| Lead Investigator | posts 1215 |
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Thanks for the information Mary. I had just not heard about that and not knowing what state, I was up in the air. Unfortunately for J&G RI, CT and MA has a different set of rules.
Thanks again for the info!
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11:49 am
May 5, 2009
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Revenant
| | Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage" | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1393 |
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Wes said:
But are they really being dishonest to say they were plumbers who now hunt ghosts, who are affiliated with Roto Rooter? I'm still waiting to see the proof that that's a lie.
To answer your question, Wes, yes, I do believe that they are being dishonest.
If I play basketball at the local gym on the weekends, I can call myself a basketball player. If I go on TV and state that I am a basketball player, the statement is inferring that I am a professional basketball player. If I do not clarify my position as a non-professional, weekend basketball player, I am inherently being dishonest.
This holds true for Jason and Grant. If they are not licensed, by the law of Rhode Island, they are not plumbers, but service technicians. Even though the same work is being done, they have not earned that title. So, yes, they are being dishonest.
As for proof, I think the email from the "State of Rhode Island, Department of Labor, Division of Licensing, Plumbing" is pretty decent. What other specific proof do you require? I'm not trying to put you on the spot or anything. Just not sure what else can be done as far as evidence.
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"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
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