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1:56 pm May 30, 2008
| drmichaelrhodes
Investigator in Training
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[NOTE FROM ADMIN: SPOILER ALERT!!! This post contains inside-info concerning the investigation airing in next week's episode of Ghost Hunters. And it's good!]
In the coming week, Ghost Hunters will air TAPS' investigation of Moss Beach Distillery in California. There is some controversy brewing about this episode because TAPS didn't know that the Distillery was rigged to simulate haunting and poltergeist phenomena. However, it's a widely known fact that the Distillery is rigged to recreate the ostensible paranormal experiences people have reported over the years (e.g., swinging lamps). And this information can be Googled in under a minute. It has also been discussed in numerous television programs on the paranormal. Loyd Auerbach, the central parapsychological investigator of the Distillery since 1991, has mentioned it in numerous publications and television appearances. Apparently the Pilgrim producers also knew about the rigged effects but didn't inform TAPS about them. So TAPS was initially fooled.
Some Ghost Hunter fans are already accusing the Distillery of fraud. This is flatly mistaken! While it remains to be seen how this episode was cut and so how the Distillery, its history and owner, and TAPS come off, these rumors about the Distillery intentionally trying to deceive TAPS are absolutely false.
I have included below a statement from Loyd Auerbach which clearly explains the history of alleged genuine phenomena at the Distillery and the origin and motive for the rigged effects.
Dr. Michael Rhodes
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From Loyd Auerbach: "I was involved in the initial set up of the special effects at the Moss Beach Distillery in the late 1990s – which are computer-controlled/recorded recreations of some of the reported phenomena at the Distillery, phenomena which began in the early 1930s. However, the effects were deliberately set up with specific lamps that were not previously reported as moving (it was other lamps), a different mirror in the ladies room (different from the mirror where the ghost's image has been seen multiple times), etc.
"The computer records all simulated effects, and individual activations. In that way, if there's any question as to whether 'the ghost did it' or not, there's a record to check.
"No effort to hide the effects has been made. I (Loyd Auerbach) have discussed the effects in several televised and print interviews, on multiple radio shows, and in his extensive write-up of the Moss Beach Distillery case in his book A PARANORMAL CASEBOOK (Atriad Press, 2005). In one major cable show (which constantly repeats) detailing haunts in the Bay Area, the Distillery was featured and the segment included the special effects.
"Googling the Moss Beach Distillery brings up articles that mention the special effects.
"I spoke with a producer identifying himself as working on GHOST HUNTERS several days before the team was to go to the Distillery. While the conversation was about the Presidio in San Francisco, the subject of the Distillery came up – I asked specifically if they were aware of the special effects. I was told they were.
"The likely reason neither the owner nor the manager mentioned them is because there are SO many places where the effects are mentioned. Anyone doing even light research on the phenomena in sources less than 10 years old can hardly help but run across discussion of the effects.
"Finally, the reported phenomena has been occurring since the early 1930s. I got involved in 1991 and have conducted numerous investigations there before any special effects were installed. There has been real, documented physical phenomena at the Distillery prior to the installation of the effects. I have personally had numerous experiences there — something I can't say about a lot of places.
"I helped with that installation (consulting, helping to get the initial contractors, and more). The phenomena is real. The phenomena went on for over 65 years before the effects were even conceived of. The effects are fun, to add to the 'experience' of the restaurant. And the effects are no secret."
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2:44 pm May 30, 2008
| Logisti
Admin
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Hey! Glad to have you in the forums. You just gave away next week's big surprise though I'll tag your post with a spoiler alert, just so no one can say they weren't warned.
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9:35 am May 31, 2008
| June
Investigator in Training
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Wow. I, for one, don't mind *this* "spoiler." When it comes to making rational judgments based upon what's at hand, information is preferable to ignorance. Thanks, Dr. Rhodes, for the "heads-up" on this episode.
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5:40 pm June 1, 2008
| drmichaelrhodes
Investigator in Training
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June,
Thanks.
We'll see how Pilgrim decides to edit the episode, what new spin they'll find to put on things. Since they haven't been all that creative in the past (creativity doesn't help ratings), I'm not anticipating any surprises. Judging from the promo, it looks like the episode will show Jay and Grant being shocked to learn that the Distillery is rigged. Will they complain about this in the Reveal? If so, the response should be, "What? You guys didn't know this? Spend a couple minutes researching the history of the places you visit….and keep your day job."
Michael
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5:49 pm June 1, 2008
| D
Investigator in Training
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Hey Dr. Rhodes, thanks for posting this.
Research on locations seems to be hit and miss with TAPS. There have been times that the research alone can debunk the site (see Palace Theatre). However there are glaring research holes in other spaces (i.e. The Distillery, but also the Myrtle Plantation from an earlier episode).
On a side note, while I'm excited to see the episode, I wonder about the logic Pilgrim used to send TAPS in here with no knowledge. Was it a test to see if they'd catch it? Were they curious to see if the TAPS crew wouild actually do the research? From a production side of things it seems to be a setup. If the episode actually does demonstrate glaring flaws in the TAPS methodology more the better as long as TAPS actually LEARNS from the event rather than propogating the same error over and over. Or, they could circle the wagons and become defensive.
Whatever the case, it should be a wizbang episode!
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7:13 pm June 1, 2008
| drmichaelrhodes
Investigator in Training
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D,
I'm guessing that the show will spin it as: "Hey, the TAPS guys are pretty sharp because they figured this out." I'm guessing that last summer Pilgrim knew they could spin it this way.
Now that would be a sensible strategy *only if* the rigged effects were not something that TAPS should have known about before going into the place. Perhaps Pilgrim is banking on the viewers' regional igorance.
I know that Auerbach thought at one point that perhaps the show would try to pass off the effects as genuine. I've always thought that would be a very poor strategy, even if possible. On Thursday we would be reading the post-mortem for Ghost Hunters.
Michael
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3:53 pm June 2, 2008
| kevin
Investigator in Training
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I don't think Pilgrim would ever allow TAPS to be embarassed in any way. Whatever happens, I'll bet TAPS comes out looking good.
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5:07 pm June 2, 2008
| drmichaelrhodes
Investigator in Training
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Kevin,
Of course. This is basically about $$$.
Michael
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11:05 pm June 4, 2008
| drmichaelrhodes
Investigator in Training
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Now that the episode has aired…..
Response to Ghost Hunters' Moss Beach Distillery Episode
(1) It's widely known that Moss Beach Distillery is rigged to simulate haunting and poltergeist phenomena that have been reported there over the years. This can be determined by a one-minute search on Google. It's also been discussed by parapsychologist Loyd Auerbach in several publications and television programs. Auerbach has been the central investigator of the Distillery since 1991. The nature of and motive for the rigged effects have been widely documented. There's simply no reason why TAPS should not have known that the Distillery was rigged. They simply didn't do their homework.
(2) Jay mentions at the very beginning of the episode segment that TAPS has heard *a lot* about the Distillery from TAPS family members in California. Interesting. Are we to conclude from this that TAPS family members didn't know about these effects or they knew about them but they chose not to tell Jay or Grant. If these TAPS family member groups are from the Bay Area, they should have known about the rigged effects.
(3) The suggestion, made by both Jay and Grant, that there's "no evidence" that the Distillery is haunted, is misleading and unwarranted. The episode wrongly gives the impression that there's nothing at all to the claims of paranormal activity at the Distillery, despite the fairly extensive material on this. Loyd Auerbach and other researchers have documented haunting and poltergeist phenomena at this location for many years. If people are interested in learning about this, they should consult Loyd Auerbach, A Paranormal Casebook: Ghost Hunting in the New Millennium (Atriad, 2005), pp. 140-175.
(4) Jay says several times during the episode that the rigged effects at the Distillery undercut confirmation or verification of genuine phenomena there. Even if there's something to this point in general, it doesn't apply so nicely to the Distillery. If TAPS had done their homework, TAPS would have known precisely how the Distillery was rigged. They would have also known that the rigged effects were deliberately installed in specific locations (or with specific objects) that were not implicated in earlier claims of paranormal activity.
On the whole, this episode demonstrated TAPS' shoddy research skills and grossly misrepresented the Distillery. The attempt to blame the Distillery, its management, owner, or executive chef for this is frankly astonishing and silly. And the repeated statement in the episode (by Jay and Grant) that the Distillery is deliberately trying to deceive people is simply false.
Michael
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8:09 am June 5, 2008
| sherriesisk
Investigator in Training
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Doc, you've been all over the web lately trying to bolster claims that the distillery acted properly here. Just one problem with that: They didn't. Or, to be more precise, one of their agents/employees didn't.
Look, there are three bad actors here, no less: TAPS should have researched, the producers should have disclosed what they knew to Jay and Grant (which they clearly didn't — that's obvious on even the most casual, and most diligent, of viewings) …
… and the chef/tour guide should have handled his part VERY differently. There was only one way to play this for the up-front and honest person, and that was this:
Hey guys, we get comments about women's laughter in the bathroom, ghostly faces in the mirror, and swinging lamps over the bar [so far so good!]. But the truth is [whoops...] these are special effects that were installed years ago. We've turned them off for your visit so you can rely on any results you do get. [double whoops] Just wanted to let you know. Oh and by the way, here's a list so you can double check us.
That wasn't done. The smirk on the guy's face during the reveal makes his state of mind quite clear. His tour was what we in the law biz call the "last avoidable opportunity" — he had the last chance in the entire sordid process to avoid what happened. What happened was entirely forseeable, and as a result, we get the following:
- Three bad actors
- One of those three bearing a much greater share of the blame
- One fairly entertaining half-hour of TV.
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8:46 am June 5, 2008
| Logisti
Admin
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Sherrie, I have to disagree. Knowing the producer's of the show had been informed, and believing the effects had been turned off, I don't see why the topic should need to be brought up during the tour. It's like rehashing something that doesn't even matter.
That being said, you might argue that it's such a sensitive issue that it bears beating the proverbial dead horse and mentioning it again just in case, but frankly that's a secondary fault, as is the fact that TAPS didn't do very good research.
Primary fault lies with the producers, and after that we can say, "By the way, the restaurant ALSO could have avoided this if they'd follow-up and mentioned it during the tour" and I'd agree, but frankly that has less long-term impact on my opinions than the other, "By the way, TAPS kinda isn't very good at part of their job" that comes up when we address their poor research.
So yeah, I agree it would have been responsible for the restaurant to mention it to TAPS, but it was IMPERATIVE for their producers to mention it to them. It also would have been responsible for TAPS to turn it up during their background research, which is part of what they're supposed to be good at for this show they've been given.
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4:13 am June 6, 2008
| sherriesisk
Investigator in Training
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Really. Not at all?
"Hey employee, what goes on in here?"
"Oh, laughter in the bathroom, lamps swinging over the bar…"
"Oh, OK…"
"…"
Please. That is a significant omission. For the life of me I can't understand how anyone could conclude otherwise. I'm not being pigheaded here, I've honestly tried to look at this from another way — even rewatching the entire interaction. They asked "what goes on" (clearly meaning "what goes on that's supernatural in origin or could be"); they got an answer. The answer failed to mention that the EXACT SAME THINGS that were being touted as supernatural in origin actually had VERY specific and mundane explanations. There's just no good explanation for that.
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8:42 am June 6, 2008
| Logisti
Admin
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Because the restaurant either (thought they) turned all the effects off, or they assumed when TAPS cut the power it would turn all the effects off, therefore the effects would have zero bearing on the investigation.
And as I just pointed out in the main discussion on the blog, most people do not realize TAPS does NOT cut all the power, because they need to plug their equipment in. Likely, TAPS is the reason that the bathroom effect was still on.
So yes, mentioning the effects (which everyone assumed would be off) doesn't seem imperative, although that may well be why Pilgrim neglected to mention it to TAPS as well. Either way, the restaurant's role was fumble, not sinister.
As for the effects (which were installed 10 years ago) being the "EXACT SAME THINGS" the there *IS* a good explanation, and it's straightforward and simple: The reason why the effects exist in the first place is to simulate some of the REAL things that have been reported since the 1930's.
Just to drive that point home, because it's important: The reason the effects match the reports exactly is because the effects were designed to simulate the reports — and the actual reports are real and date back half a century of more before the effects.
ALSO IMPORTANT: The effects do not *ACTUALLY* match the reports exactly. For instance, the mirror with the face is not the mirror that was rigged up with a face. The lamps that supposedly move are not the lamps that were rigged.
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9:13 pm June 6, 2008
| Shannon
Guest
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I was just looking at Jay & Grant's new event web page and noticed that Lloyd Auerbach is actually a scheduled speaker at their Mount Washington even this August…thought it was interesting.
http://www.beyondrealityevents.com/BRReventsspeakers.html
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1:06 am June 7, 2008
| D
Investigator in Training
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Wow, That is wierd. Aurbauch's response to TAPS wasn't the most flattering. And some people are going so far as to essentially label him a hack because of his response. But here he is presenting for a TAPS event. That just adds a whole new level of crazy to the thing.
AND I just saw, they mention the book that he wrote, which according to him documents the Moss Beach Distillery haunting. It's even referred to as "noted" and "respected." In fairness a personal publicist probably typed it up for the event.
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11:37 pm June 7, 2008
| Shannon
Investigator in Training
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On the topic of producers telling them or not telling them about the gags…aren't Jay & Grant listed as executive producers? Don't you think they MIGHT have an interest in where they are going and what they are going to find when they get there?
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11:51 pm June 7, 2008
| Shannon
Investigator in Training
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D said:
Wow, That is wierd. Aurbauch's response to TAPS wasn't the most flattering. And some people are going so far as to essentially label him a hack because of his response. But here he is presenting for a TAPS event. That just adds a whole new level of crazy to the thing.
AND I just saw, they mention the book that he wrote, which according to him documents the Moss Beach Distillery haunting. It's even referred to as "noted" and "respected." In fairness a personal publicist probably typed it up for the event.
That is interesting!
Jason responded at his Myspace
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=11408348&blogID=403692272
I think its funny that people are saying that Auerbach just wants to sell his books-including Grant. I mean its one thing to say that you wrote a book and are selling it for 19 or so bucks and another to declare a place haunted-then turn around and offer a tour for a couple of hundred bucks.
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8:27 am June 8, 2008
| CrowTRobot
Moderator
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Something Jason says in that blog:
"As for us not doing enough research before the case, like we have always said, we wait till after the case so we do not contaminate ourselves with the claims, history or anything else of the case.
Why read up on a place prior and find out so and so died in the back room and then go there and focus mostly on the back room?
Give the whole place a clean slate when you walk in!!
Go in uncontaminated!!"
I can understand that to a degree; however, wouldn't it help the investigation if you had some background info? Ex. I actually read recently that the school my wife had attended (1st -12th grade) was haunted. Something about it burning down and a number of chlidren dying in the fire. I asked my wife about it. She said she'd never heard the story, nor had her mother (now in her late 70s). I'd still need to check historical records to be sure about the fire; still, in about 5 minutes I debunked the whole story and saved some ghost hunter a wasted weekend.
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3:50 pm June 8, 2008
| drmichaelrhodes
Investigator in Training
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I have now responded to Jason Hawes' response to Auerbach's response to the Distillery episode. See my blog at:
http://www.myspace.com/drmichaelrhodes
Folks, I'm hopeful that in the coming days we'll more information disclosed about this whole thing.
Michael
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