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12:57 pm
September 18, 2009


TasCat

TasCat

Investigator

posts 74

 I just have to say that the USGS visit was a good idea, as to a post in the Courthouse topic, many people don't notice small earthquakes.  I was in the Bay Area when a small tremor occurred, my sister, who lives there and went through the '89 World Series quake, jumped up and was halfway out of the house, when I said "What?" with an obvious confused look on my face, my Dad said, "earthquake" and pointed to the houseplant behind me, whose leaves were still shaking back and forth.  I heard nor felt anything during that one, but my sister said she heard it.  I guess some people can hear the low frequency noise a lot better than others, especially after being through an "Almost The Big-One", even though there was much damage and loss of life in that earthquake (the '89 one) it wasn't as bad as it could have been.  This little quake did measure in the 3.0 odd point Richter range, it took one a bit higher for me to feel that happened on the same trip, but I was still in bed and stated, in jest, I think my room's possessed.  They then said, you felt that earthquake this morning, huh?  I think this one was high 3's to maybe 4.  I aslo think the one I didn't feel was what they out there call "A roller" and the one I felt was "A Shaker"

 But I have slept through several low 3 on the Richter scale quakes, one in South Dakota, another here in Kansas…you wouldn't think we would have one in either location, but they happen.  And I guess NYC could suffer a major quake and New England is known to have them.  Some of the oldest rock formations are in New England up to Greenland, and when you get up and close to them, you can see the bending and twisting they have taken over the millenia.  The US Geological Society page is very interesting to read, and you can see the small quakes that happen over the US and be surprised where they occur, even if small, enough to tip some things over (small, like pictures and such).

"If the sheet doesn't fit, buy a new one!"

4:16 pm
September 19, 2009


Leigh Macneil

Guest

7:39 am
September 20, 2009


TasCat

TasCat

Investigator

posts 74

 Hi Leigh,

 I posted this before I read all about the trouble you had with the TAPS team,  I am not trying to disprove your house being haunted, I haven't been there, I just wanted to point out that many people do not feel small tremors and that there are faults in the NE area, but yes, as you or someone else pointed out, it would be on the news as an event of note..no matter how small.  Unless it was like 1 on the Richter scale or something, which happens a lot, we normally don't feel those and very doubtful it would move anything.

 I also just wanted to point out that it was a good idea for them to check out a scientific source, which is very lacking in their cases normally.  Do I trust these guys, no.  Not as far as I could throw Jason, which is what I imagine you want to do.

 I am sorry for all the trouble you and your spouse had to go through with these guys, I have quickly yesterday, bookmarked the New Hampshire Paranormal site which you said had better evidence, I had planned to read that today, but saw that there was a post in here by you, but sadly, nothing said.

 I am not a TAPS junkie that tries to validate everything they say, if you see my other posts, you can see I am quite skeptical of them and was just very surprised that they actually went to a REAL science source. Not just relying on their "EMF" detectors or FLIR device to supposedly see "apparitions" that aren't solid.  And like it was pointed out, they aren't even plumbers, well, I guess Jason has an apprentice license, don't know if they expire, I know it was said it was a 1 year apprentice license or permit.  I know I wouldn't want these guys installing a hot tub or hot water heater in my residence (if I had room in my apt for a hot tub) :-) I sure wouldn't want to take on the handle of another poster here, CrispyCritter!

 So Good Luck, I hope the trauma caused by these guys will heal soon, and maybe you will find some awesome evidence with the help of a more reputable group, it's just sad hearing more and more people come forward to state how they were treated with no respect and lied to by them.   Just remember, I wasn't trying to put you down or dismiss that your house was haunted, but just put forth that an actual scientific method, seismology and use of the USGS was actually tried.

 I believe this is why Jason and Grant are not using homes as much these days, but concentrating on working establishments or unoccupied buildings, I remember the days they claimed to be out there to help people, but finding out the very first episode's homeowner also had problems, posting as "Brenda" on here  for  a while. Now she was quite angry…I can't say I blame her or you for defending your position as you did!

 Take Care and good luck! Thanks for coming over from the Scy-Fy board to fill us all in with the valuable info on how the production works, I encourage some of the readers here to check with that forum and get a little more insight on how Leigh felt his wife was treated  badly, if he doesn't answer alicat's question on the main page.  I don't have a link for it handy, but I think everyone knows where the Scy-Fy forum is and just look for the MacNeil House.

"If the sheet doesn't fit, buy a new one!"

8:26 am
September 20, 2009


alicat

Lead Investigator

posts 1215

TasCat,

This is already being discussed on the Review section of this site.  Leigh posted there last night instead of on the forum and apparently did not cancel once he realized there was a review section and left the space blank.  We would like the information posted on our site for discussion and not on another board as it does not do any good for us to go back and forth and just becomes totally confusing for anyone to comment.  We are not the Syfy board so it's best to keep the discussion in these parameters rather than jumping around.

10:34 am
September 20, 2009


TasCat

TasCat

Investigator

posts 74

@alicat,

Yes, I saw this after the post, and often see that there are conflicting ideas on where to post thoughts.  I have seen "there's a subject in the forum, post there, and now vice-versa.  I thought the idea of the forum was to keep down posts on the review page, so maybe a little clarification is needed.

What purpose does the forum serve if all posts of an investigation are to be posted in the review section? Please clarify, now see I could have posted this in the MacNeil House review section, but it would be a bit off topic and waste space, I am not trying to be testy or anything on the issue, just want to know where to post, again, like I said, I saw the blank post here, knew the background of the story, saw to my right that Mr. MacNeil posted in the review section towards the end of my typing, and with my hard time typing at times, didn't want to do the whole thing over.  At first I thought he had messed up and accidently posted the blank and decided to fix it later.  So my bad, I guess.

"If the sheet doesn't fit, buy a new one!"

10:55 am
September 20, 2009


alicat

Lead Investigator

posts 1215

That same thing happens to me TasCat.  I just wanted to point out Leigh posted in the Revew column because you seemed disappointed you didn't see a post.  I also wanted to point out that we want to keep things "in house" so to speak and that's why Leigh was offered to come to our site and explore.  We just don't want to jump back and forth between our forums and that of another board.  It's not fair to anyone and considering there seems to be, at times, multiple forum threads started and then things discussed in the review, we need to consolidate as that, in itself becomes, confusing.  You will notice the request to the mods to incorporate these into one for that purpose but it hasn't happened.  Just don't want it to get out of control like other threads have gotten.

12:13 am
September 21, 2009


Stephen

San Jose, CA

Admin

posts 589

As far as I know, there isn't a mechanism to merge forum and blog comment threads, so it's not something I can do. Sorry. For discussion regarding specific episodes, it's always best to go to the blog posts first, since Logisti puts up a placeholder specifically for that purpose. If there are suggestions on how to handle this better please PM me.

Stephen the Friendly Skeptic

7:01 am
September 21, 2009


alicat

Lead Investigator

posts 1215

We have small tremors here on the East Coast and I have slept through every one.  Most people around here don't pay any attention.  We just don't have the earthquakes my family experienced in SF during the World Series quakes.

However, GH/TAPS going to the USGS in Reston, Virginia, to do research on Monday at 2:25 p.m. the day before the reveal?  Please don't tell me that anyone believes Kris was doing "research" in Virginia on that Monday.  I hope not.  Kris never did her research scene until much later and it was requested and done I'm guessing to back up J & G's claims of tremors.  Why do I say that?  Here's why.  They would never have flown Kris to Reston, VA to film one very brief scene and flown her back home.  While that is possible to fly to VA and return, Kris (who actually lives in NH and would have known about tremors as well) was actually in NH at the Mt. Washington event which was from 4/17-4/27.  However, the main reason comes from Kris herself when, in her very first statement announced to the rep "we just recently did a case in Hopkinton, NH".  And when was GH in the Reston, VA area?  Approximately 3 weeks after this case.  Remember the Lee-Fendall case?  Check out my post (the 2nd) in the review comments.  My guess is, after reviewing and editing this particular investigation they realized they needed something to back up J & G's tremor claims.  There was absolutely no need to go to the USGS.  Quite frankly, she could have done her "research" with the Geological Society of NH or the NH Department of Environmental Services both which are located in Concord which is very nearby and where the Macneil's themselves stayed the evening of the investigation.

Another point is, when does research consist of someone asking a rep "what is it that you guys do here?"? If you are going somewhere to do research on a particular subject and you are told to ask such a stupid question, maybe you shouldn't be doing "research".  I know you will say it was setting up the point of the visit but will GH/TAPS please learn how to write a set up better than that.  Very sloppy.  And Kris' research consisted of an opening statement and one question?  That's research?  I do more research compiling a grocery list.  So, to make people believe Kris went to VA and especially stating it as Monday at 2:25 p.m., the day before the reveal, is absolutely ludicrous and shows how stupid they think their "fans" are to buy such BS.

7:37 am
September 21, 2009


Nosfer

Rotaredom

Moderator

posts 2957

Not only that, the research was not mentioned in the reveal. If you send Kris on a 1000+ mile round trip, don't you think they'd mention it.

Plus, the day of the Reveal is wrong, too. A Tuesday? Leigh mentions it was on Day 4 which would be either a Thursday or Friday if they were there the 20th through the 24th (although that's FIVE days, not FOUR) Monday was the 20th of April, or Day 1 according to both Leigh AND the photo that is featured on the NH Paranormal website. Yet the episode as aired said that the investigation was on Friday/Saturday. If you can't trust the days they show events taking place, you can't really trust anything else, either.

GH timeline is:

Investigation Friday/Saturday…not Monday
A made up, bogus research taking place on Monday which was probably filmed a month LATER
Reveal on Tuesday…not Thursday or Friday

Well, we've seen this before, look at the time stamp of the Dude Run incident at ESP vs what Pilgrim shows it to be. Scientific Investigation my Rearus endus!

Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.

10:06 am
September 21, 2009


TasCat

TasCat

Investigator

posts 74

 @alicat

 Yes, a simple phone call to the USGS asking if there were tremors in the Hopkinton, NH area, or if contacting the NH branch, just Hopkinton on the specific or even approximate timeline of the claims of activity would have sufficed.  But of course that doesn't make good television, and I suppose the asking of the "what do you do here?" is just because they think their viewers aren't smart enough to figure that out. I agree it's silly, it's like when we have a tornadic event, someone going to the Severe Storms Laboratory in Norman, OK and their first question is "What do you do here?" or same with the National Hurricane Center, and thinking the viewers don't get it, is just a waste of video time.

 @Stephen

  Maybe when we get into discussions like this, which really is a fringe matter on the episode, would be best for here, while offering our initial or continuing thoughts on actual "evidence" or events in the episode, would be best for the blog, a discussion like this, while concerning the MacNeil House, I don't think would really be appropriate and just take up valuable space.  I don't know,  something to think about I guess, but after seeing what alicat said, I didn't look at the forum posts and they do seem to be waning off towards the blog posts.  But another thing to note is that there isn't really a blog string for topics like "fringe topics" in the blog forum, but there is here and I believe that technical topics were also suggested to be here.  So the forum is still useful, but I do agree that it is easier to post on the blog about the specific episodes.

 (Or maybe I just want to get out of "investigator in training Tongue out ) Smile

"If the sheet doesn't fit, buy a new one!"

11:48 am
September 21, 2009


alicat

Lead Investigator

posts 1215

TasCat,

I never mentioned a "simple phone call" to either location.  Why would I?  What would be the point?  We've all seen Kris' research skills consist of copying down notes taken off an outline/script provided by the production company.  What I said was it was easy to prove (which I did) that Kris never went to Reston, Virginia on the date and time GH/TAPS states.  GH blatantly lying and misleading everyone to believe she did?  "That's good television?  They could just have easily filmed Kris doing her "research" a mere 12 miles and 15 minutes away in Concord.  I would rather have seen that "good television" rather than GH/TAPS lying and claiming she was over 505 miles away on an over 9 hour trip which was utterly ridiculous.

12:15 pm
September 21, 2009


TasCat

TasCat

Investigator

posts 74

 alicat,

 I agree totally, I myself don't think it's "good television" but as for GH and their mindset, they do.  I mentioned a simple phone call to agree that it's silly to travel that distance and not even on the date suggested, I agree with you totally.

 I'm saying these guys have put themselves into a corner into trying to fix their image which is rapidly falling as they do more and more obvious chicanery.  How better than to supposedly send their researcher all the way down to VA to "prove" how "thorough" they are?  That's all I meant.  It's tough to get voice inflection into a written post, that's what's tough about debating on forums at times.  Like when you thought I was upset there was no answer to a post, far from the case, I was glad Mr. MacNeil came here to enlighten all of us, no matter where the post.  But the phone call business, I was just simplifying how easy it would be to check that info besides sending someone on a plane that far to ask those silly questions, just as you do.  A phone call wouldn't work for them, again using the "good tv" bit, it has to look like they are doing something real.  Heck, do we even know the USGS visit was legit?  Jay and Grant wear Roto-Rooter clothing, but don't do plumbing for them, they are just billboards.  For all we know, like many things staged on the show, the plumbing work, the door from the Louisiana case being filmed in the office, etc.  Was that even a real USGS office?  I will have to look that part over, I was just checking the reveal portion of the first part of that episode, and stopped right as Mrs. MacNeil magically transported from upstairs to the basement and not have her experiences down there mentioned.

 I am going to look at the office, see if there's seismographs around, or if it's just a desk with some maps on it…be back in a bit…..but I'm on your side wholeheartedly, it doesn't make sense, just as I said a minute ago in the technology thread, these guys have tainted the whole paranormal field to the point that possible real events will never be taken seriously due to their and other's actions, which has saddened me greatly, I had such high hopes for these guys when they started, but when the truth comes out as to their act, it's like they are Barnum & Bailey… I don't know which one would say "There's a sucker born every minute, though". Maybe in tandem.  Let me check that video. I have to post and leave because I use my HDTV as my monitor as well.

"If the sheet doesn't fit, buy a new one!"

12:48 pm
September 21, 2009


Nosfer

Rotaredom

Moderator

posts 2957

Whether or not there are seismographs etc there won't prove anything. Diane is a public relations person (not a seismologist and, yes, she's at Reston) and thus a meeting in a PR type setting would easily be done. There WERE no seismographs, by the way. All Kris really needed to have done was gone online to NEIC and gotten her answer.

If they wanted to show true dedicated got-to-all-ends research, she would have come out here and talked to Waverly….probably no more overkill than supposedly heading down to Reston from NH.

Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.

1:50 pm
September 21, 2009


TasCat

TasCat

Investigator

posts 74

 Exactly, I just saw that as well, and as I promised to reply, I will in short.  Seismology can explain why something has moved in your house and you don't know why, like a picture frame tipping over, or as I said before, a plant shaking, which for me, I would have had no reason to suspect seismology, ie. an earthquake causing it to do so, as I was wide awake, felt nothing, but for the terror of my sister, would never had known it happened (plus the Bay Area news people reporting all things like that).  But it's just that with a grain of salt, a mere possibility.

 And yes, I noticed all she talked to, was a PR person, who just deals with the media and supposed ghost hunters wandering in the office.  Never talked to a Geologist.  So this was just a waste of the viewer's time and sponsor's money.  Like I said, they are grasping at straws to maintain credibility after recent debacles.  But we will probably keep watching, just to see what Scooby and the gang come up with next, when the Harlem Globetrotters are guest investigators….I'm gone.  After they had to put up with the non-believing, I'm not leaning your way, asking too many questions we don't want to answer, Sports Entertainer with the rapper name on one halloween special, I'm sure they will pick their guests more carefully, they did get a good shot in the arm with the one who screamed like a woman (just his pitch, not that woman get scared easily). Want to be PC of course :-) I'm almost ready to watch the GA crew get possessed some more. :-P

"If the sheet doesn't fit, buy a new one!"

2:07 pm
September 21, 2009


Nosfer

Rotaredom

Moderator

posts 2957

Well, and what's really bad is that the NHGS is in Concord which is probably a 10-minute drive from the investigation site, too.

Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.

2:35 pm
September 21, 2009


alicat

Lead Investigator

posts 1215

If they were doing this to try to restore their "credibility", posting something so obviously incorrect not only in time and date but confirmed with Kris' own words, does nothing for their credibility.  In fact, I seriously doubt it was to restore anything but merely sloppy production work, hook, line and sinker.

As far as further "investigators", you will be seeing two cast members from Warehouse 13 and I believe another Syfy cast member.  The name escapes me at the moment.

Going to any USGS or seismology records online is probably not going to add anything to this discussion.  There can be numerous other reasons for someone to experience what they consider a "tremor" and it won't show up on any official government scale.  It depends on the location of the house and many numerous factors.  What Kris did was merely confirm a possibility (three weeks afterwards) – nothing more.  If she did do any research, she could have come up with a list of scenarios and not the only one that was mentioned by Grant.  And, if the research was serious, they would have found out the dates of these incidents so they could do some archive news searches in the area.  Obviously, as we see, they went way over the top in order to make everyone believe she flew to Virginia because they were serious and just wanted answers for the client instead of doing the common sense thing.  However, that's what they do – a quick in and out – you're haunted – you're not haunted.  Take your pick.

2:44 pm
September 21, 2009


Nosfer

Rotaredom

Moderator

posts 2957

Going to any USGS or seismology records online is probably not going to add anything to this discussion.

Coupled with the dates and times they could have gotten in the next quote, an online search (or have NEIC personnel check) would provide positive confirmation of a quake at that time. Not finding anything would not 100% confirm there was no quake, but the odds of there not being one without a record would be pretty low. If you get a match, the chances would be pretty good towards an explanation…if you don't, then you've ruled out one of the possibilities.

And, if the research was serious, they would have found out the dates of these incidents so they could do some archive news searches in the area.

Would be interesting to see as far as what "personal reports" there were as a way of confirming (but not dismissing) an event. I've gotten personal reports before that coincided with an event…I've also gotten reports that did NOT coincide with any known event. The latter were almost certainly not quakes.

Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.

6:58 am
September 22, 2009


HollyDolly

Investigator

posts 194

TasCat said:

 Exactly, I just saw that as well, and as I promised to reply, I will in short.  Seismology can explain why something has moved in your house and you don't know why, like a picture frame tipping over, or as I said before, a plant shaking, which for me, I would have had no reason to suspect seismology, ie. an earthquake causing it to do so, as I was wide awake, felt nothing, but for the terror of my sister, would never had known it happened (plus the Bay Area news people reporting all things like that).  But it's just that with a grain of salt, a mere possibility.

 And yes, I noticed all she talked to, was a PR person, who just deals with the media and supposed ghost hunters wandering in the office.  Never talked to a Geologist.  So this was just a waste of the viewer's time and sponsor's money.  Like I said, they are grasping at straws to maintain credibility after recent debacles.  But we will probably keep watching, just to see what Scooby and the gang come up with next, when the Harlem Globetrotters are guest investigators….I'm gone.  After they had to put up with the non-believing, I'm not leaning your way, asking too many questions we don't want to answer, Sports Entertainer with the rapper name on one halloween special, I'm sure they will pick their guests more carefully, they did get a good shot in the arm with the one who screamed like a woman (just his pitch, not that woman get scared easily). Want to be PC of course :-) I'm almost ready to watch the GA crew get possessed some more. :-P


So TasCat, what episode was this one? Since I don't get SyFy, I never have seen the Halloween Specials.

To me there's nothing wrong with the guy asking questions.Whether you are a believer or not,I think you should have a right to ask them questions about why do they do this, what do they hope to gain from what they learn, is it all just about the money and fame,etc.So what sort of questions did this guy ask them?

That thing of Grant and Jay's about how much a ghost can lift, baffles me.I mean where did they get that ghosts can only lift 5 pounds or whatever junk they state. I'don't recall where Hans Holzer or Harry Price ever made such statements .

And why go supposedly all the way to Virgina? It make more sense to go to Concord.

You can get tremors anywhere.A couple of times in the past here in South Texas, we have had small tremors around the San Antonio area. I think the last one happend around Pleasanton some years ago.

9:36 am
September 22, 2009


TasCat

TasCat

Investigator

posts 74

 It's the last Halloween Special, 2008, with the famous Collar-Gate episode and the crew member walking in on Jason and Grant as they were doing a take.

 I know the pro-wrestler's name now from looking at the blog here on the review page, "The Miz". Lol, as I was going through the posts, some people were saying how obnoxious he was, I agree on the questions, HollyDolly, he was just trying to be a skeptic, as I remember it, it just seemed that the TAPS members were a bit annoyed at his trying to debunk things that they thought perhaps might be paranormal, but he wasn't in awe of them as most guests are and I guess that showed through as well.  But all this little side drama was put wayyyyy on the back burner of topics, except in early posts, after more and more people came forward with the collar issue and the "You don't belong here" "disembodied voice", where it looked like Grant was going through sound files, rather than rewinding the digital voice recorder and when he couldn't find the right file, said quickly his batteries went dead.  But he may have really been rewinding, so to speak, as there is no tape, I honestly cannot say.

 But the wrestler's questions and obvious tension between him and his investigation partners, seemed to cut his appearances from the director's playbook, so he was rather forgotten in all the later hubbub of the controversy of the episode.  I know this should be in that forum thread, but you wouldn't have found it.  I hope this helps, I also agree with alicat that the whole business about going to VA was silly, but like I said in that post, I think they are trying to connect themselves with real science, however lamely done, to show their "thoroughness", now there is sarcasm in that sentence, I think Concord would have been much better too, but the probably drove past that sign and just went in and got stock footage on earthquakes, hoping to use it somewhere, as alicat pointed out, the timeline was all wrong, as did others.  I don't believe they specificly talked about NH in that interview, so I doubt it was even for that episode, but an opportunity they used maybe while on another investigation or coming back from another investigation to get that stock footage, the PR lady only really spoke of an earthquake in Manassas, VA.

 But yeah, it was the Halloween '08 special, with Collar-Gate that the wrestler was featured, the thread of the review is in the November 08 archives and at first you get a lot of negative remarks about him until the "String hits the Fan" so to speak.  Oh, and I read that Sy Fy is one channel owned by a company that also owns USA, or Spike as it's now known as, which would explain the cross-channel interaction with the sports-entertainment guys, anything to add another demographic to their list (Ghost Hunter's), which I still haven't heard if they are doing a live Halloween episode yet or not.  I know Ghost Adventures is going to do one, to lead off their return to give us something to talk about.  I apologize for all the references not related to the MacNeil House episode.

"If the sheet doesn't fit, buy a new one!"

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