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K2 Behavior

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1:54 am
January 8, 2009


Ike_Spink

Investigator in Training

posts 5

A grid system of EMF detectors is a brilliant way to set it up scientifically, billhunter. And they have the budget to do it, which is why it's so disappointing that the show isn't real science.

From what I've seen though, sources like lights, speakers, cell phones – they send out a limited, static, electromagnetic field – bring the detector close, it goes off, pull it away, it goes down. Leave it in the middle of the room for hours on end, it doesn't move at all.

I'm going to try out texting left, right, up, down, and around an EMF detector I have and see if it moves. I'll let you know if it does, and from how far away.

3:51 am
January 8, 2009


Learjet

Australia

Lead Investigator

posts 1122

You really don't need a bunch of EMF detectors to figure out what's going on. You only need one good one. One that reads amplitude, frequency and has a time adjustable history display.

For a few dollars to make an "antenna" or probe you can turn any computer with a sound card into a powerful spectrum analyser.

Using Spectrum Laboratory software This is what I use and it will out perform any cheap EMF meter easily.

Pre-assembly of the antenna probe coupled to an Asus eee pc. The probe is now housed in a PVC pipe. Die K2! And Gauss Master too.

OD'd on EMF

11:46 am
January 8, 2009


NewbieGhost13

Investigator in Training

posts 19

If I may just jump right on in here with some possibly silly or point less questions about the K2 meter but I'm just curious.

I already know that electricians use it to find wires behind walls and that a lot of things can set it off but here's my possibly weird question: What is it about the wires that set off a K2 meter? I mean, K2 meter don't always go off near electronic devices all the time, or do they? What I mean is, how does an electrcian know the K2 found an electric wire or if it something else electric?

Also, are there certain kinds of walls (Brick, cement, dry-wall, metal, etc…) that a K2 meter can't penetrate to detect if there are any electric wires behind there? Essentially, I guess I'm asking what things can shield electromagnetic fields. At least I think that's what I'm trying to ask. Laughing

12:06 pm
January 8, 2009


A Adams

Guest

I also wondered too in the lighthouse episode why when the two (Andy and ?) were on the spiral steps and were so excited by their EMF readings and what they felt it was indicating and either then in voiceover or later said "everything was turned off" (GH's way of excusing any other electrical interference other than paranormal)–Did they really turn the lighthouse light off? Would they have turned off the solar battery cells? I wonder how much comes off these big storage cells? I don't know anything about this stuff so this may make no sense at all.

1:49 pm
January 8, 2009


Ike_Spink

Investigator in Training

posts 5

A Adams, (I have a friend by the name of ashley with that name lol, wonder if you know someone named ceeps), if I recall correctly, andy and whoever was with him followed the reading up and down the stairs. If they moved up a couple steps, it wouldnt be there, if they moved down a few, it wouldnt be there, but the reading they were getting was moving up along the staircase.

I think its highly unlikely that anything such as lights, or whatever other static electronics they had would "walk" up the stairs over a period of time.

2:13 pm
January 8, 2009


A Adams

Guest

No, sorry don't know them. Yes, I wasn't trying to debunk their readings as they were "odd" just questioning their statement that "everything is turned off".

thanks

Edit: I realized what I answered didn’t make much sense. I meant that with all the debate over what EMF devices pick up and don’t pick up ‘was their statement a little bold if not a bit deceitful?’

  lighthouse light look so powerful to me

4:57 pm
January 8, 2009


Learjet

Australia

Lead Investigator

posts 1122

NewbieGhost13 said:

 What is it about the wires that set off a K2 meter?

Also, are there certain kinds of walls (Brick, cement, dry-wall, metal, etc…) that a K2 meter can't penetrate to detect if there are any electric wires behind there? Essentially, I guess I'm asking what things can shield electromagnetic fields. At least I think that's what I'm trying to ask. Laughing


The wires themselves don't set off a K2 or other EMF meter, it's the 50/60 Hertz AC power running through the wires. Wires act like an antenna to the AC which then radiate into the air.

ELF/VLF will penetrate matter quite well compared to higher frequencies. Solid metal might slow them up a bit, otherwise they pass through most mediums fairly easily. That includes dirt and water etc.

OD'd on EMF

5:26 pm
January 8, 2009


Learjet

Australia

Lead Investigator

posts 1122

A Adams said:

I also wondered too in the lighthouse episode why when the two (Andy and ?) were on the spiral steps and were so excited by their EMF readings and what they felt it was indicating and either then in voiceover or later said "everything was turned off" (GH's way of excusing any other electrical interference other than paranormal)–Did they really turn the lighthouse light off? Would they have turned off the solar battery cells? I wonder how much comes off these big storage cells? I don't know anything about this stuff so this may make no sense at all.


Actually you make lots of sense, and this is my biggest gripe with paranormal investigators and basic EMF meters. There's ALWAYS EMF a plenty being radiated. This becomes apparent with a spectrum analyser or even a basic audio amp connected to some wire.

El-cheapo EMF meters are basically deaf. They don't pick up the constant background hum being radiated which can be received with better equipment. At least they don't pick it up most of the time. But what happens when the background noise briefly breaks through? It's a ghost of course! Not.

To know what is setting off a meter we need to see the noise floor below the threshold of a basic EMF "ghost" meter. And again it can easily be done with a spectrum analyser or audio amp. But no that would be too easy for GH to do!

Here's my audio EMF meter. Actually it's not a meter. I listen to the noise with headphones. It easily picks up AC hum and harmonics from powerlines hundreds of metres away from any AC source. I actually built it to receive natural Earth sounds like whistlers.

OD'd on EMF

7:49 pm
January 9, 2009


NewbieGhost13

Investigator in Training

posts 19

Oh, how cool! Thanks for all that info Learjet. Well, I can say Ghost Hunters affected me in at least one good way. They appealed to my impossibly insane desire to know everything and got me interested in learning more about physics and, of course, the paranormal. It also led me here!Smile 

So, there are better EMF readers than the ones TAPS uses? HHmm. If, so, why not use them? (That was a half a question half a statment.) Are such meters insanely exspensive then? Or difficult to use, somehow?

I wish I had a K2 meter to just see what it would do. I bet I'm not the only one.

By the way, Learjet, how on earth did you make that device of yours? What is it made from? I obviously see the battery but what's the other circuitry? The mutilated inside of a handheld EMF reader? Laughing

12:52 am
January 10, 2009


Learjet

Australia

Lead Investigator

posts 1122

NewbieGhost13 said:

So, there are better EMF readers than the ones TAPS uses? HHmm. If, so, why not use them? (That was a half a question half a statment.) Are such meters insanely exspensive then? Or difficult to use, somehow? ….

By the way, Learjet, how on earth did you make that device of yours? What is it made from? I obviously see the battery but what's the other circuitry? The mutilated inside of a handheld EMF reader? Laughing


TAPS uses the worst possible EMF meters available. There are meters out there that are infinitely superior but they don't use them. Why? Because if they did most of their ghosts would vanish into a puff of the explainable, and that would be no good would it! Tongue out Sorry, but as a radio tech this really bugs me about them.

The device above is made from a UA741 opamp. It's  just an audio amp really but uses an RF pickup. With it you can hear most EMF sounds from about 50 Hertz to around 10 KHz. It only cost a few dollars to build. There are better circuits available with MOSFET front ends, which is what I will need to move to during the sunspot peak for my Earth sounds.

I should do a youtube video one day of what various EMF sources sound like.

The circuit.

Built on veroboard. Then just connect battery, plugs, sockets and put it in a box.

OD'd on EMF

5:49 am
January 11, 2009


Mary

Guest

What are " natural Earth sounds like whistlers"?  

6:32 am
January 11, 2009


Learjet

Australia

Lead Investigator

posts 1122

Whistlers are caused from lightning reflections. This video better explains Earth sounds. http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=eHvdZdsIZxg&feature=related

Some more Earth sounds here. http://www-pw.physics.uiowa.edu/mcgreevy/#latest

OD'd on EMF

12:29 pm
January 11, 2009


SkepticalRader

California

Investigator

posts 38

Learjet said:

Whistlers are caused from lightning reflections. This video better explains Earth sounds. http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=eHvdZdsIZxg&feature=related

Some more Earth sounds here. http://www-pw.physics.uiowa.edu/mcgreevy/#latest


Now that was really fascinating. Thanks, Learjet!

10:30 pm
January 11, 2009


Stephen

San Jose, CA

Admin

posts 589

By the way, Learjet, if I never said "welcome to the site"… Welcome to the site! (Belatedly.)

Stephen the Friendly Skeptic

4:28 am
January 12, 2009


Learjet

Australia

Lead Investigator

posts 1122

Thanks Stephen.

Strangely,  I'm not sure I like being a skeptic. I really want to believe, but the monkey business that goes on in these TV shows that claim to be professionals… well I guess that's why I'm here.

Thanks to yourself, Logisti and all the members for a great site!

OD'd on EMF

7:07 pm
January 12, 2009


Dedicated_Dad

Investigator

posts 64

Learjet said:

Thanks Stephen.

Strangely,  I'm not sure I like being a skeptic. I really want to believe, but …


A similar feeling has pretty much pervaded my life since… oh…  the first week in November.

I see all these folks just meandering through life, blissfully ignorant of … oh,,,  Much of anything other than who they think should win American Idol.

I used to pity them, now…  I think I pity ME. 

They seem so…  HAPPY

DD

1:51 pm
January 15, 2009


NewbieGhost13

Investigator in Training

posts 19

Ooh! Thanks Learjet for replying. Interesting info! You even uploaded pics! Awesome. Laughing

And Dedicated_Dad, you took the words right out of my mouth.  

EDIT: Good, lord! Some of those sound clips on the http://www-pw.physics.uiowa.edu/mcgreevy/#latest site sound like whispering voices. Huh, well how cool! Well, now that gives a lot to think about. Some animal and frog sounds heard (well, it sounds like animal sounds do not know if they are what I'm hearing) could be interpreted as voices without much problem either. It can't explain all EVPS and odd sounds but it is certainly possible for at least some of them.

7:53 pm
January 15, 2009


Learjet

Australia

Lead Investigator

posts 1122

NewbieGhost13 said:

 It can't explain all EVPS and odd sounds but it is certainly possible for at least some of them.


Yes some of them do sound a lot like animals, frogs and birds etc. But that is just paradolia as none of what your listening to is actually audio. All these recordings are very low frequency radio signals. The signals are in a similar band to "EMF" signals, the same band in fact as EMF meters are set to like the K2 etc. However they are very weak, far below the sensitivity of any cheap EMF meter and since they are not audio, they can't be recorded by a voice recorder directly.

OD'd on EMF

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