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7:10 pm November 13, 2008
| dr_peter_venkman
| | Rochester, NY | |
| Investigator | posts 99 |
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I've watched the use of K2 meters on GH episodes for a while now and I'm getting more skeptical. I know that false readings can be induced with these devices.
I have an old but servicable EMF meter that I used to do some EMF level measurements for work many years ago. It helped me measure and determine the source of high EMFs in an office environments. The source was a high voltage line suspended over the corner of the building. Makes me wonder if any of the investigation sites have a similar situation.
Anyway, this meter is a K2 style with multi-color LEDs indicating the level of EMF detected. I used this meter while on a ghost hunt with my family at the Valentown Museum. While in the basement, my daughters and I were taking turns using the meter. At one point the meter went crazy. I had never seen readings like this without a nearby electrical source. It lasted for a few seconds and never happened again. I checked and rechecked the meter and it seemed to operating normally. It definitely had me thinking that we had experienced something paranormal.
About 30 minutes later, I was wondering out loud about the mysterious reading when my oldest daughter asked for the meter. I handed it to her and went back to video taping the hunt. Two minutes later she got my attention and told me she could explain the reading. She handed me the meter and told me to push the button. I did and a few seconds later the meter went crazy again. She immediately produced her cell phone and explained that sending a text message caused the lights to jump. She remembered that she had been texting in the basement when we got the first anomalous reading.
So, I know that K2 readings can be induced by a nearby cell phone.
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Hee hee hee! "Get her!" That was your whole plan, huh, "get her." Very scientific.
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7:28 pm November 13, 2008
| Haephiteus
| | Taylor, MI | |
| Investigator | posts 54 |
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I really think this should be pointed out to TAPS. On their interview yesterday they pointed out that they are not sure if it really picking up paranormal, etc.
If it is not being faked, then maybe it's something that they need to experiment with, and get rid of them if text messages sets them off. Contamination.
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You are a god among insects. Never let anyone tell you different. ~Magneto
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7:26 am November 14, 2008
| Nosfer
| | Rotaredom | |
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What I found funny in the All Access episode was Grant saying that they never use them as conclusive evidence of anything (or something like that) Yet they sure use them a lot, and they sure report the findings to the owner/client/struggling business owner.
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11:32 am November 14, 2008
| BarkingZouave
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| Investigator in Training | posts 3 |
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Nosfer said:
What I found funny in the All Access episode was Grant saying that they never use them as conclusive evidence of anything (or something like that) Yet they sure use them a lot, and they sure report the findings to the owner/client/struggling business owner.
Agreed. The USS Hornet was a good example of using the K2 as "conclusive" evidence, or at least they presented it that way. How many times has Jason said, "We had direct communication with the k2" Ugh. I found that a lot of the statements made by the GH members were contradictory to the footage/montage sequences of investigations on the all-access show.
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12:47 pm November 14, 2008
| kingofseattle
| | Castle Frankula | |
| Investigator in Training | posts 15 |
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"and they sure report the findings to the owner/client/struggling business owner."
I've noticed that too and though they might not call it conclusive evidence, they don't hold back with the client on how impressive (to them) the K2 sessions are.
Mix that with shadows, EVPs and cold spots and BANG! It's a haunting.
This brings me back to my very first complaint about their evidence gathering. EVPs! (Getting off track here…sorry)
They quickly tell (or force) the client to hear their translation of an EVP.
How many episodes have i seen where the client can't make out the sound and TAPS defines it for them.
Smoke and mirrors.
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12:50 pm November 14, 2008
| Logisti
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lol, no, dontchya know the USS Hornet was haunted because they heard footsteps and momentarily saw someone running through the room ahead of them a couple of times on FLIR. Since living people don't have footsteps and don't show up on FLIR, that was enough to tell them the place was haunted.
I jest, but seriously if you had Grant right in front of you and said, "You *did* use the K-II as primary evidence on the USS Hornet" he'd say, "No we didn't. We heard phantom footsteps and caught an apparition on the FLIR three times!"
…also a chain was swaying slightly. On a boat. In the water. Evidence.
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1:09 pm November 14, 2008
| Nosfer
| | Rotaredom | |
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Logisti said:
lol, no, dontchya know the USS Hornet was haunted because they heard footsteps and momentarily saw someone running through the room ahead of them a couple of times on FLIR. Since living people don't have footsteps and don't show up on FLIR, that was enough to tell them the place was haunted.
I jest, but seriously if you had Grant right in front of you and said, "You *did* use the K-II as primary evidence on the USS Hornet" he'd say, "No we didn't. We heard phantom footsteps and caught an apparition on the FLIR three times!"
…also a chain was swaying slightly. On a boat. In the water. Evidence.
Yupper lol…it also figured quite prominently in the Buffalo? Train Station and the Mill where they were talking to the kid. Presenting such to the client is tantamount to entering it as evidence in my book!
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7:37 pm November 17, 2008
| RandomParadoX
| | Spokane, WA | |
| Investigator in Training | posts 17 |
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Grant just edited his myspace blog on the K2. He added the following:
"Added – 11/15/08: Also, if the K-II is placed near our wireless audio transmitters it will go off. Naturally, we avoid placing it near our packs. Usually, Arms length at pack level is enough. Once you venture above or below it, it doesn't set the K-II off."
Something to look for on future episodes?
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"Like, hey Scoob… did you hear that?"
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7:57 pm December 10, 2008
| ChicagoLad
| | Chicago IL | |
| Investigator in Training | posts 3 |
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During tonight's episode (Portsmouth Harbor Lighthouse) J & G are using a KII in what appears to be an administrative office. J would knock and the KII would show what seems to be a response. Well during the second knock and response session you can clearly hear what appears to be electromagnetic interference not dissimilar to the same type you would get when you have a cell phone near some speakers and the device is about to transmit or receive some kind of information (call or text). Could someone else see if they could detect this as well?
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9:50 pm December 10, 2008
| Dedicated_Dad
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| Investigator | posts 64 |
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I didn't catch that, but I did see that the computer on the desk where Grant was sitting was turned on. I always thought they cut all power in the buildings. Any loose wire in the vicinity could jiggle and produce a flicker of EMF caused by the knocking. Seeing that really shredded a lot of compelling past "evidence" IMHO.
As I mentioned in another post, I'd also like to see "one for yes/two for no" or the like when they get into these "conversations" – taking a blank as a "no" is assuming an answer and fundamentally flawed… I think they should also ensure no emitters of any kind (cell, walkie, car-alarm fob, etc) in the building, otherwise it's all bunk by default IMHO.
Sort of pisses me off – I'd really like to believe but the more I see…
DD
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11:19 am December 11, 2008
| Stephen
| | San Jose, CA | |
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ChicagoLad– there's a buzz there. I agree, it sounds like cell phone chitter, which could set off a K2.
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Stephen the Friendly Skeptic
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5:50 pm December 11, 2008
| Nosfer
| | Rotaredom | |
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If they are getting responses, I'd also like to see them MOVE the KII to another location and see if it continues…I don't mean like move it half a foot, I mean to another side of the room. And don't knock on the same surface the meter is sitting, if there are any loose connections, the vibration could turn the lights on.
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Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.
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2:36 am December 12, 2008
| Learjet
| | Australia | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1122 |
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I noticed earlier in the show the voice recorder set the K2 off a number of times.
What is a little odd is that Grant waved the K2 over the computer, the monitor, speakers and phone and it didn't light up. These are the very things that should give a reading. My meters do. Nevermind EM fields, their K2 must only be useful for detecting ghosts. 
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7:52 am December 12, 2008
| CrowTRobot
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| Investigator | posts 228 |
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I could be wrong, but iin this week's episode (12/10), Jason said something like, ' I knock three times and the K-II meter goes off three times.'
That's not true. It went off, but it looked almost arbitrary. In fact, it once started going off before he even finished. We've come to distrust Grant, but I find if very discouraging to see Jason get so excited about the K-II.
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8:39 am December 12, 2008
| ChicagoLad
| | Chicago IL | |
| Investigator in Training | posts 3 |
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The EMI we hear strike me as odd for two reasons. First being it sounds distinctly digital and the second is that with the buzzing the KII lights up in perfect sync. I’m going to go out on a limb here and suggest that should the background music had magically gone away during the rest of the session we would have heard more.
How could this be potentially reproduced? There are two possibilities that come to my mind. The first being the use of a digital walkie that operates in the 900mhz range which would mimic the communication characteristics of some cell phones (I am by no means a communications expert so if anyone has any input on that please let me know). The second would be to have a cell phone with a webpage open and when you need to invoke a response hit refresh in your browser. This could be reproduced with very little effort and virtually any time with only the slightest brush of a finger.
Am I reading too much into the incident?
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9:24 am December 12, 2008
| bullerspoke
| | Sweden | |
| Investigator | posts 101 |
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I did the same observation as Chicago-Lad, something resembling mobile chitter when the K2 started going off in the office… I was surprised it made the cut, anyone with a grain of sense would discard that whole segment.
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When in doubt… figure it out!
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8:34 am December 13, 2008
| dr_peter_venkman
| | Rochester, NY | |
| Investigator | posts 99 |
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Stephen said:
ChicagoLad– there's a buzz there. I agree, it sounds like cell phone chitter, which could set off a K2.
I've watched this a couple of times and I definitely hear a very familiar static pattern during the first K2 burst in that scene. I hear this pattern several times a day at work when I return to my office and my cell phone reconnects to the tower.
WARNING: What I'm about to type definitely next could be construed as nitpicking…
I noticed two probably minor things. First, when Grant grabs the K2 and passes it around the various potential sources in his immediate vicinity it appears to be casual and cursory. He barely even looked at the meter. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt that because it was relatively dark, any activity on the meter would have been immediately visible. Second, when he returns the K2 meter to its original location he places it near the corner of the wall divider and then slides it back to the original position. One can only assume that the exact position of the meter was important for some reason.
Like I warned, nitpicky.
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Hee hee hee! "Get her!" That was your whole plan, huh, "get her." Very scientific.
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5:32 pm December 18, 2008
| billhunter
| | Melbourne FL | |
| Investigator in Training | posts 2 |
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I would like to make a few points about the K2 and other EMF detectors that might shead some light on how they are misused:
1. low power sources such as car remotes and cell phones are going to have there fields die off pretty quickly with distance. If the K2 was at 4 feet from the source, and then moved to 8 feet, the signal would be dropped by a factor of 4. 4 feet to 12 feet would drop by a factor of 9.
2. High power sources that are further away, like radio stations, CBs, and Ham radios drop off much slower. If the source was 1 mile away, moving an additional 4 or 12 feet would be negligable.
3. A stong source far away is indestinguishable from a weak source near by using a K2 meter. The only way to eliminate far away sources is to have several K2 meters in the area, aranged in a grid, and if they went off in sync, than the source is far away, but if only one or two went off, the source would be nearby.
4. The K2 does not show frequency, which is the most important thing to know about a RF source if you really wanted to know what it was. There are other devices in the same price range that provide this information. The only reason I can see to avoid this equipment is so that you can continue to pretend that teh signals are of a paranormal nature.
5. The RF spectrum is very noisy. There are signals buzzing through your room and your body all the time. If you had real RF equipment, you would see all kinds of unidentified man made signals.
6. Almost all electronic gear outputs RF energy. Cameras, cell phones, lighting, IR lighting, etc. There is virtually no way they can fild their show without generating a lot of radiation.
If they were really convinced that RF energy could be used to detect ghosts, than why don't they get the right RF equipment and use it instead of a cheap box with a bunch of LEDs. They could use a directional antenna and spectrum analyzer and determine where the signals were coming from and what kind of signals they were. This of course would force them to reclasify many of the Ghost signals as man made.
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Cake are squared, Pie are round
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5:39 am December 19, 2008
| Learjet
| | Australia | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1122 |
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billhunter said:
If they were really convinced that RF energy could be used to detect ghosts, than why don't they get the right RF equipment and use it instead of a cheap box with a bunch of LEDs. They could use a directional antenna and spectrum analyzer and determine where the signals were coming from and what kind of signals they were. This of course would force them to reclasify many of the Ghost signals as man made.
Right on. Well said.
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