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Jason and Grant do NOT fake evidence………..

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12:53 pm
April 30, 2009


Grant Wilson

Guest

The whole 'team' does………………..your thoughts?

2:05 pm
April 30, 2009


Sabrina

Elk Grove, CA

Investigator

posts 27

Considering Jason and Grant are the ones that have all the experiences, I would suggest that the entire team does not fake evidence. With that being said, I do believe the team does know about it.

If you ain't laughing … you ain't living! May your life be like toilet paper … long and useful.

2:28 pm
April 30, 2009


Wes

Spaulding Inn, Room 38

Investigator

posts 142

"The truth shall bear all light."

2:28 pm
April 30, 2009


alicat

Lead Investigator

posts 1215

Absolutely J&G.  In the very beginning of GH I wanted to believe and then as things proceeded I sadly agreed yes to at least Grant.  It didn't take long to say yes to Jason.  He can't be that gullible with Grant even though at times he seemed annoyed.  Perhaps he was annoyed that Grant was either striking out on his own and not passing things by him or he told him not to do things but Grant did them anyway.  He's the stronger personality of the two and with his machismo, has a lot to lose if things don't go as he plans.  I really would like to say no to everyone else but the odds are….  Although I don't think Kris and Amy are, hmmm, what's the word?  Well, let's just say, I don't think so.  Brian – yes, Donna – yes, Britt - yes, Joe – yes, Steve – yes, Tango – probably (it's the magician thing).  Crew – yes for obvious reasons.  Looking back on what I just wrote, I'm still puzzled by Tango and why I just said probably.  For some reason, even with everyone else I said yes, it seems to put him in the line of fire but I have a hard time saying yes outright.

Ironically, and please no groaning here, the one person I would say no to was Andy.  As much as he got under the skin of a lot of people, love him or leave him, I think he was just one very enthusiastic individual who wanted to believe with all his heart.  When he went into that lighthouse so excited to be there and went on and on about the documentary he saw from the Japanese crew, I actually felt bad for him that his dreams were dashed.  It was like watching a kid open a package on the holidays and the box has all the markings of exactly what he wanted but then when he finally gets it open, it was just a box used to hold something else.  I think that is why Andy is not around anymore.  He didn't quite "fit" the box.

3:43 pm
April 30, 2009


dr_peter_venkman

Rochester, NY

Investigator

posts 99

I'm convinced that J&G have pulled some serious shenanigans. If the evidence presented by the posters here were used in a court case, me the jury would have no problem returning a guilty verdict. No resonable doubt whatsoever.

I think the editors are guilty of including, excluding, and modifying content to exaggerate the evidence.

The film crew is a tough one. They appear so infrequently that I find it impossible to tell. I think that some of them definitely are accomplices to the aforementioned shenanigans. In particular, the camera operator during the collargate seemed to be in the perfect position with his camera trained on the right person.

I may be forgetting something but I can't recall anything that leads me to believe that Steve and Tango have faked evidence. They have identified highly questionable video and audio as potential evidence but that's not faking. It appears to be misinterpretation.

As for all of the others; innocent until proven guilty.

I agree with alicat about Andy. He was a bit overzealous at times but he never came across as anything but sincere. He was proud of his debunking skills. For him to fake evidence would require a 180 that would have been dramatic and seemingly out of character.

Hee hee hee! "Get her!" That was your whole plan, huh, "get her." Very scientific.

8:49 pm
April 30, 2009


The Doctor

Lead Investigator

posts 488

dr_peter_venkman said:

The film crew is a tough one. They appear so infrequently that I find it impossible to tell. I think that some of them definitely are accomplices to the aforementioned shenanigans.

I may be forgetting something but I can't recall anything that leads me to believe that Steve and Tango have faked evidence.


I think the film crew is "in on it" in the sense that they could see something blatent and not report anything – that's their job.  Since they are anonymous and interchangeable, they have no stake in the success of the show other then possibly being chosen for future episodes,  but if found out interfering with what they are shooting, their professional career is basically shot.

In other threads I've mentioned Steve as being a prime suspect for setting things up as he goes around touching stuff. This season he seems to be keeping hands off, and GEE, wires don't fall off alarm bells, firewood dosen't fall from fireplaces, rocks don't fall from nowhere, papers don't fall from boxes, children's talking books don't start by themselves …  

The only thing caught on video is a camera that HE just might have setup seen moving, and HE just might have been the one to check it and say it was too tight to move on it's own.

… and don't forget the door that swung open " by itself" just after he was playing with it – If it had stayed stuck for a few minutes after they were gone, the next investigators  would have reported a ghost – they might have even caught it on camera. 

9:12 pm
April 30, 2009


Stephen

San Jose, CA

Admin

posts 589

The reason that we started to single out Grant is our venerable thread, the Grant List. We started tallying all the "ghost-or-hoax" incidents, and in a vast majority of cases, Grant was the last person on the scene or was somehow in a position to perform a hoax. So the minimal hypothesis (edging toward a theory) is that Grant is the only one involved.

There's no way to know who beyond that might be in on it, whether complicit in covering things up or actively hoaxing things.

It's difficult to imagine the production crew not being aware of the hoaxing, but not absolutely impossible.

Stephen the Friendly Skeptic

12:09 pm
May 1, 2009


Oubliette

Igloo in NJ

Lead Investigator

posts 574

Alicat–that's an interesting "yes" list.  Mine's not quite that long.  In fact, I'd like to know what others think about who might be hoaxing (as opposed to just knowing about it and keeping quiet).  Here is mine:

Jay and Grant (the latter much more than the former), Britt, Steve, Tango (he's a maybe to me also.  He just seems so naive at times.  He might simply not be capable of pulling something off.)  Kristen-I don't think she would have a problem with hoaxing.

Brian–I see him as a prankster, not a hoaxer.  Actually, when he went with GHI and didn't have Jason breathing down his neck, he showed himself to be very enthusiastic and brave.  I'll never forget how, after the first episode of GHI aired, he went on his MySpace, listed his mood as "anxious" and was asking everybody to write what they thought of him and the show.  Don't think he would hoax.

No:  Andy.  I agree 100% here with Alicat.  Andy was the best debunker on both GH and GHI.  Highly intelligent and used his brain to think of any possible earthly explanations for evidence.  Also very gung ho when it came to investigating.  I can remember the nasty looks Jay used to throw his way, which I have put down to jealousy and Andy's skills being better than his.

Joe Chin-Simply can't see Joe doing anything.  Although on the quiet side, he appears to be pretty serious and honest.

Kris-she's an actress, but not a hoaxer.  She and Amy are put there to provide the eye candy and scream factors.

Donna-Having read a lot of Donna's MySpace postings and the entire impression of her website, I think we are dealing with an honest person here.  Just my opinion, but I believe she could see which way the wind was blowing and left in disgust.  Her Crohn's disease was used as an excuse to give the public, but to me Donna simply refused to go along with any chicanery.

Remember Lisa Dowaliby?  I think she was an honest person also.  Maybe I'm prejudiced because she's a vet tech who loves animals-I have a soft spot for those people.  But she didn't last long either, and I simply can't see her as a hoaxer.

Again, all the above is IMO.

If 50 million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.
Anatole France

1:09 pm
May 1, 2009


alicat

Lead Investigator

posts 1215

@ Oubliette,

I was trying to cover all the bases.  Maybe I should explain why I said yes to Brian and Donna.  Here's why:  a few times I listened to their radio show just to hear what it was about.  I got the impression from the conversation they were having with each other that a lot of what we saw during the pick on Brian segments and at one point when Donna was ticked off at him, was simply not true.  She admitted that he was portrayed as a problem but said they always got along and she never had a problem with him.  Just the words going back and forth between them seemed to indicate to me that on her part (maybe she was told to do so which would not surprise me) she went along with the flow – not every time but she did at times.  So, it's possible she's a maybe and yes, I agree about Brian and GHI.  It was obvious that without J&G, especially J, that he was much more relaxed.  What still bothers me about Brian is the NYC museum incident where "someone" tried to run away with the case and Steve supposedly gave chase (poorly I thought).  It was absolutely obvious to me it was Brian (dress, hat, build) and Steve's explanation was really ridiculous for someone who was supposedly a former police officer.  Now, maybe all those factors (and his brief partnership with Barry) make me suspicious.  If not guilty of hoaxing, he seems to be on a different naive level and definitely has the capacity to prank.   So it's a toss up but that's why I said yes.  And I do have to say, he didn't hesitate (ok, he did at Eastern State) to face his fears – especially when J&G weren't around.

I agree with Kristen – no doubt.  Kris – she's an actress but I don't think she could pull anything off at all.  I agree, Kris and Amy are simply eye candy and clueless IMHO.

Joe Chin – hmmm. . . the jury is still out on that one but I still tend to say yes.  Perhaps only as an assistant.  He seems like an affable person who just wants to stay and fosters the GH philosophy.  In the beginning I think he was more his own person but now he's always saying "did you hear that?" or "yes".  He's so agreeable that if he isn't, he's playing the game just to stay around and wouldn't say no.  I wouldn't say he's enamoured but I'd say he's never going to rock any boat.  I don't dislike him at all but I still tend to say he's a part of it in some form or another.

Andy – he was too good for J&G and it was obvious, as you said, Jason was very jealous.  Now, after many episodes, we can clearly see why.  With what GH and GHI have presented, I'll bet Andy is glad he's out of there.  He always gung ho and amazed me by climbing up or down those ladders and going in those spaces in the dark.

Wow!  Lisa Dowaliby.  Hadn't thought about her.  I'm having trouble remembering her performance but I do remember the name.  I guess I can't comment on her but I trust your judgment Oubliette.  Laughing

1:15 pm
May 1, 2009


Nosfer

Rotaredom

Moderator

posts 2957

What still bothers me about Brian is the NYC museum incident where "someone" tried to run away with the case. It was absolutely obvious to me it was Brian.

Thanks alicat! I haven't seen that suspicion raised anywhere before (besides my own) but I did a double-take the first time I saw that "scene" and said "Brian?" Nice to have a little independent confirmation!

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1:29 pm
May 1, 2009


alicat

Lead Investigator

posts 1215

@ Nosfer:  Absolutely, positively 100%!

I did the same thing.  I thought it was a gag and they would say he was back on GH again.  The standing around and discussion bit with Jason bringing up that he had heard there had been some problem smacked of a conspiracy.  Just the way Jason spoke – it was totally uncharacteristic of him.  I waited and waited for the punch line but nothing.  Even a friend of mine who believes everything, and I do mean everything they do, called and remarked about it.  She said I could have sworn that was Brian.  She also had to admit she agreed and thought it was Brian behind the sheet at Eastern State which also surprised me.  See, you work on them one at a time! Wink

9:12 am
May 11, 2009


Hannah

Texas

Lead Investigator

posts 361

I wonder if they go into some areas with some "just in case" plans in the event nothing happens?   The collar-tug, for instance.  Hey, if nothing being found, you can do. . .tugs, touches, knocks, black masses (never caught on camera), "I got pushed down by a ghost" type of things? 

For the most part not coordinated, like at 11:45 pm Grant you get pushed down.  Midnight, Jason you chase a black mass.  They do it spontaneously to make it look more real, camera crew caught off guard as well as team members. 

Link to case theft.  A few people in the comments section thought it was Brain also.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEYJ8qIdeGo&NR=1

10:46 am
May 11, 2009


Nosfer

Rotaredom

Moderator

posts 2957

Well, and think about it…who's going to steal something with a flippin' camera crew filming!!!!

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11:16 am
May 11, 2009


blinddog

Special Agent Zombie Elimination Agency

Moderator

posts 857

Nosfer,
Shhhh! As a viewer you're supposed to suspend belief and act like the film crew is not there.
It's supposed to be like an interactive Disney ride.

Jason:"Did you hear that!"
Grant:"What the frig!"
Viewer:"I heard it too!"

Double tap to the head. Don't become Undead.

11:22 am
May 11, 2009


Nosfer

Rotaredom

Moderator

posts 2957

blinddog50 said:

It's supposed to be like an interactive Disney ride.


Makes sense…the whole thing DOES seem a little Goofy :)

Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.

12:19 pm
May 11, 2009


Mary

Pondering what you're pondering

Investigator

posts 147

Hannah said:

Link to case theft.  A few people in the comments section thought it was Brain also.


Oh, don't blame Brain.  Pinky, maybe.  But it's never Brain's fault.  Cool

"Quando omni flunkus moritati" ("When all else fails, play dead") – Possum Lodge motto. Jason and Grant should adopt it as their own.

12:27 pm
May 11, 2009


alicat

Lead Investigator

posts 1215

I'm just curious about something.  Did anyone actually "see" Steve lose his footing or just pull up after the case was placed down on the sidewalk?  I know he said he did but the camera shot was so far away that I don't remember actually ever "seeing" what Steve said happened.  I still stand by my convictions that it was Brian and, looking at this link again, see it in the way he carries himself, trying to shield his identity and other factors previously mentioned.  Also, I don't ever remember seeing everyone standing around like that (almost a perfect picture set up) and being filmed by the cameraman doing actually nothing.  What was the point of that unless it was the setup shot for what was about to happen.  Also, why waste the film?

I'm with you Hannah.  I wonder if they film things like this to spice up the show "just in case".  LOL!  You have to admit that place was not real GH friendly for investigation.  Bad planning on their part but most of the blame belongs to the museum.

Hi Ho! Hi Ho! It's off to work I go!  Laughing

12:29 pm
May 11, 2009


Hannah

Texas

Lead Investigator

posts 361

I was still at the stage of the show where I believed everything!Embarassed   Guess it was used to showcase the fact that Steve was a police officer.  If I am not mistaken, they all still had their day jobs at this point.  If it was Brain, at least it was not faking paranormal evidence. Unless, he was the dark figure 'captured' at East State.

1:31 pm
May 11, 2009


alicat

Lead Investigator

posts 1215

Hannah,  Well, we only know that they said Steve was a former police officer but I'm really not even sure if that's true or even that he was still working a regular job then.  I took their word but, looking back now, I wonder about the whole set up but that's for a different discussion I won't have now.  Hate to burst your "bubble" but Eastern State … IMO Brian! Smile

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