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HOW TAPS FINDS THEIR INVESTIGATIONS SITES

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6:37 am
June 5, 2009


ghosthunterpat

Investigator in Training

posts 7

Revenant said:

ghosthunterpat said:

Revenant said:

It is somewhat rare that we get someone so involved in ghost-hunting posting on the forums.  I commend you for "reaching out" to the skeptical community.  Well, at least our skeptical community. Smile

I am sure that many of us have some very legitimate and thought-provoking questions about ghost-hunting and all that it entails.  Perhaps…you would be willing to possibly answer a few for us? 


I'm actually surprised at that. I guess I thought most of you were involved in paranormal investigations yoursellves, at least to some extent. But I'd be happy to answer any of your questions to the best of my ability, as long as you keep in mind that I'm far from an expert in this field.  


By and large, we are not paranormal investigators ourselves.  Although, a few people here have been on investigations.  It is a somewhat on-going joke amongst us that we, as skeptics, are not welcomed on ghost-hunting investigations due to our "negative energy."  We have found many paranormal groups that actually state such things on their websites.  Odd how one can arrive at the truth without skepticism, yet…to each their own I suppose.

And make no mistake…we are "skeptics."  Which, in the paranormal community, is almost a dirty word.  But, you have not walked into a den of wolves.  We are not out for blood…well, most of the time.  We are not out to "disprove" anyone or anything.  Many of us have had our own personal experiences.  We, like you, are seeking answers.  We simply request unrefutable evidence.  We know that's a tall order.  But…science is like that.  Any type of scientific discovery must be fully examined and stand up to peer review.

And speaking of science…I have finally come to my first few questions for you.  Actually, it is for a member of your team.  I am impressed that your group has a retired physicist named "D."  On the front page of your website, you state "Often it's as simple as hypersensitivity to high EMF fields."  (Just a small note before I begin…you may want to change that sentence.  EMF stands for electromagnetic field.  To put "fields" after EMF is like saying "high electromagnetic field fields."  Just sayin… Smile )

Every study that I've personally seen on health and high EMF's is based upon whether or not EMF's can relate to some sort of cancer, not "hypersensitivity."  One can also argue that Electrosensitivity (ES), which is what "hypersensitivity" really is, can be described as a psychosomatic disorder.  What particular studies has "D" read that would lead him to support the claim of anyone having "hypersensitivity to high EMF fields?"  Also, what specifics levels of an EMF does "D" believe would trigger a response in such an individual?  Lastly, what specific types, makes, and models of EMF meters are used during your investigations?

Oh…and you're absolutely right about Paranormal State.  You won't find much love for PS here.  Innocent

   


Good catch on the EMF redundancy. I will correct it. btw, our website is not in good shape. I'm not much of a webmaster and would love to pass this off to someone else. So, yes, it is very outdated at the moment.

I will pass along your question to D.

Pat

6:47 am
June 5, 2009


ghosthunterpat

Investigator in Training

posts 7

KidSkeptic said:

"Grant was earnestly explaining to the frightened homeowner that her TV was turning on and off and skipping channels and turning the volume up and down seemingly by itself because of all the other remote controls in the neighborhood. DUH, NO, that's not how it works. Remote controls operate on infrared light and they have an extremely limited range – you'd have to be in the same room for it to have those effects. I'm not saying a ghost was causing the problems, but it sure wasn't the neighbor's remote control. If that were the case, we'd all be having these problems all the time – you'd hardly be able to watch your favorite TV show without constant interference."

Just want to point out that this does happen. Just a few years ago, my neighbors who happen to be good friends of mine, bought a new TV. I noticed that it was the same brand and style as mine. So as a joke, I would point my remote though the walls towards there tv and mess with them. It was more fun to be outside there window and do it and watch them get upset durning the game. Guess i'm a bit of a jerk, but they didn't know what was going on untill I told them. In this case it was the same style and brand of TV and worked best though the window but still had a chance of working though the wall…. so their debunking of the TV is a valid explantion.


Interesting info. I will pass it along to D and Jim, the scientists in the group. Obviously, you needed a direct line of sight to their TV (not that you could see it through the wall, but there could not have been any interference with the path). Try putting your finger over the beam on your remote and it stops working immediately. Was this an apartment? The residence involved in this investigation was a single family house and it looked as though the lots were fairly far apart, although there were other houses around. Plus, I would think that someone would notice a guy standing outside the window pointing a remote at the TV, but some people are just not very observant. Another thing we ask people to do in these types of situations is to keep a detailed log that notes when/where the activity occurred, who was present, and any other details they remember such as "Oh, yeah, our neighbor was standing outside the window pointing a remote at our TV." That would be very helpful for us to know. Anyway, I will let you know what our techie guys say.

Thanks,

Pat

7:28 am
June 5, 2009


alicat

Lead Investigator

posts 1214

Pat,

Excuse me if I seem confused here.  I'm still not sure why you are posting to this site.  I realize others have asked questions but you have not presented us with anything of substance just that you'll run it by your "scientists" or TAPS does it differently but that's okay with you.  For instance, regarding research:  "I realize that TAPS is dealing with the time constraints of a TV show, so we have to keep that in mind."  That is absolutely an unacceptable excuse for anyone including TAPS.  Jason has actually bragged in the past that they don't do research ahead of time because they don't want to put any preconceived notions in anyone's head prior to investigating.  Excusing them because it's TV?

It's nice to see how you go about your business and I appreciate your sharing your information with us, but I still get the feeling that this board is being used as a platform of some sort.  If you are looking for validation of your group, that is not our purpose.  As you stated "Anyone can say anything and they do not have to provide any proof or even proper attribution." 

7:43 am
June 5, 2009


Mary

Pondering what you're pondering

Investigator

posts 147

I have to respectfully disagree with the comment that remotes cannot be controlled by a neighbor's remote.  Let me tell you my story.

Until 2007, we had plain old antenna TV.  Never had a problem with our remote controls.  Then we got Dish Network, and noticed our channels changing, even though no one had touched the remote.  Okay.  No one panicked, and started yelling about ghosts.  I called Dish, and the lady explained that this happens A LOT.  Then I had to reprogram each of our remotes to a different code.  (this took a long time, since I could hardly understand her through her accent.)  But, after doing this, the 'haunted remotes' stopped changing channels on us.  Problem solved.  And our limestone house sits on two acres, and is at least 500 feet from the nearest neighbor with satellite dish. 

"Quando omni flunkus moritati" ("When all else fails, play dead") – Possum Lodge motto. Jason and Grant should adopt it as their own.

8:16 am
June 5, 2009


Learjet

Australia

Lead Investigator

posts 1075

Your remote must be radio rather than infrared Mary. I can't imagine IR having that range.

OD'd on EMF

9:06 am
June 5, 2009


Learjet

Australia

Lead Investigator

posts 1075

ghosthunterpat said:


4.  Ah, the KII meter. Well, it certainly can't be used for any type of evidence unless you've had the toggle switch installed (or ensured it's VERY firmly held down with coins/bills) because the movement of your hand will give false readings. However, assuming that most people know that by now, part of the problem lies in not properly "characterizing" equipment. Mr. D has been after us to do so for a while now and, at our next meeting in July, everyone is bringing all their equipment and he's designing some rigorous testing processes for us. By the time we're through, we'll know much more about the sensitivities of the various types of meters, temperature probes (surface and air), recording devices, sensors, and alarms. I expect this to be very helpful. Just this past weekend, we had an experience with a KII meter that appeared to be responding in an intelligent manner; however, we have no correlating evidence such as EMF spikes on another meter close by (but not close enough to cause the KII to respond) and no recorded temperature drops. This happened several times. We moved equipment around, changed meters, changed lighting conditions, switched out voice recorders, brought in the Tri Field meter (which is quite sensitive), double checked for cell phones and other devices, pinpointed overhead and underground power lines, and generally did everything we could think of to find a logical reason why the KII kept lighting up, apparently in response to our questions. Nada. As usual, all I can say is that research is ongoing. The more psychic members of the group had numerous personal experiences at this location.

Hope this is helpful.

Pat


G'day Pat, I agree the stock switch on the K2 is very poor and a side toggle is the best alternative.

Out of all the equipment that "hunters of ghosts" use, EMF meters fascinate me the most. This is right up my alley in my area of interest due to similar hobbies involved in the electromagnetic spectrum. As such, I find your K2 hits in response to questions most interesting. Do you have video of that specific Q&A session with the K2 at all?

The number of groups with K2 hits in response to questions is growing. Some sessions I've seen are ill timed with insufficient precautions taken. Your group seems more careful, so my ears are pricked.

The K2 is an interesting meter. The widely quoted specs for this meter of 50 – 20,000 Hertz are misleading. This is an RF field strength meter of sorts with very wide bandwidth into hundreds of megahertz. Unfortunately as with all cheap EMF meters it has no frequency display. As you know this leaves it open to unidentified manmade sources giving false hits. Spectrum analysers and close capture scanners used in conjunction with the K2 would yield more useful information and help debunk manmade sources.

I will tell you this much, if you had an honest to goodness ghost on the other end, and could find the frequency of it, that would be a world breaking discovery for the paranormal field and the scientific. The world would never be the same again.

OD'd on EMF

9:47 am
June 5, 2009


Mary

Pondering what you're pondering

Investigator

posts 147

Learjet said:

Your remote must be radio rather than infrared Mary. I can't imagine IR having that range.


I have no idea how any remote works.  I'm not tech-savvy.  It looks like a regular remote to me, except it has way more buttons than our old remotes.  (as in, the ones that came with the TV as opposed to the Dish Network remotes) 

I argued with the Dish lady, too, that the nearest neighbor was too far away to cause interference, and she disagreed.  It's hard to argue with people that can't speak English very well.  ;)   All I know is once I went through all those difficult-to-understand instructions on changing the remotes' codes, the problem cleared up. 

"Quando omni flunkus moritati" ("When all else fails, play dead") – Possum Lodge motto. Jason and Grant should adopt it as their own.

10:29 am
June 5, 2009


blinddog

Moderator

posts 854

Mary, does your neighbor have a garage with remote opener?

Some satellite dish remotes are close in freq. at 900 mhz to garage door openers.
There are some companies that make a combination cordless phone and tv remote in the same 900 mhz bandwidth also.

" Take the red pill ".

12:04 pm
June 5, 2009


Mary

Pondering what you're pondering

Investigator

posts 147

blinddog50 said:

Mary, does your neighbor have a garage with remote opener?


I suppose that's a possibility.   I'm not smart enough to understand new-fangled electronics.   I'm just happy my TV is staying on Ghost Hunters, and not insisting I should watch So You Think You Can Dance, instead.  LOL

"Quando omni flunkus moritati" ("When all else fails, play dead") – Possum Lodge motto. Jason and Grant should adopt it as their own.

12:32 pm
June 5, 2009


blinddog

Moderator

posts 854

Lesser of two evils, so to speak.

" Take the red pill ".

10:51 pm
June 28, 2009


Mugs

Investigator

posts 30

Learjet said:

I will tell you this much, if you had an honest to goodness ghost on the other end, and could find the frequency of it, that would be a world breaking discovery for the paranormal field and the scientific. The world would never be the same again.

*

I thought you might find this interesting. First I apologize for not having links to share, I did have the info/links saved but I'm working with a bare bones computer right now.  I just had my HD returned after taking it in for a data recovery & reformat due to a crash [I had a lot of my files backed up but not all unfortunately, they recovered some of those but not all and I've yet to go through everything to see what's there].  It'd likely be a lot faster and easier to just go to the L.E.M.U.R site and try and find the articles/info again and post the links, which I'll try and do before calling it a night – however in the meantime if you're interested I read about this at the L.E.M.U.R group site [this is Joshua P Warren's group] and/or on their forum.

It has been a while since I've taken a gander over there so there may well be new info/developments since the posting of the articles/posts.  At the time of reading, they were in early testing stages of a Shutter Glasses Strobe System, which the user can scan through an infinite range of frequencies while wearing them.  They were investigating the Appalachian Taverns [think that's where it was not 100% certain, a cave system I know that for certain], while viewing one the areas said to be most active the investigator wearing the glasses was doing a trial/error scanning through frequencies, and when on a certain frequency [don't quote me but believe it was 100 hertz or 100.10 hertz] he was able to see an illuminated sphere [aka orb] moving around a rock formation in real-time.  It wasn't visible to the naked eyes of those sans glasses.  However I do believe at times anomalies were also seen by those w/o the glasses and individual wearing them.  For whatever reason they found that particular frequency made it easier to see anomalies, they were going to further explore the significance of the frequency and see if anomalies could be seen more easily at other locales with the glasses strobing at that frequency.

These anomalies may very well have been some sort of natural phenomena given the environment, however it is still very interesting.  IF it is possible to see natural phenomena while viewing a room/area with the glasses on strobing at a certain frequency, that otherwise would not be visible to the naked eyes….or at times has been seen by individuals with their naked eyes, with the chance of a sighting of same increasing if you will when using the glasses [set to said frequency]….perhaps same may hold true for PN phenomena such as apparitions for e.g.?  It's almost as if you're turning your eyes into a camera that is taking multiple images in rapid succession using a fast shutter, just rather than stopping at 4 or 6 etc images it's continual, as such an anomaly with a vibration/frequency that is too rapid to be evident to our naked eyes sans glasses can now be seen – if that makes sense? lol  

They have system which I believe they refer to as the Paranormal PC, they do a number of tests before leaving the system to run in an area with no human interference.  Again just going on recall here so don't quote me as the data/info may be off a bit.  At one investigation after setting up the sensors/system in a specific room [booth of some sort] and running through the various tests they do, they left it to record. Later they had found that the following had occured [at one point during the evening] at exactly the same time there was: a 20 point spike in the EM reading; a 40+ point spike in the geomagnetic reading; and somewhere between 25 – 30F [if I recall right] drop in temperature.  I believe this was the first time that they'd recorded such a occurrence.  IDK if they were able to determine, with further investigation and testing, if there was a natural cause or not, at the time [initial investigation] I don't believe they were able to explain it.  All of their data was graphed/charted [as it should be].

11:12 pm
June 28, 2009


Learjet

Australia

Lead Investigator

posts 1075

That's interesting Mugs about the 100 Hertz light strobe. I've never heard of that technique before. I was thinking more along the lines of EMF frequency, but this is interesting none the less.

OD'd on EMF

11:16 pm
June 28, 2009


Mugs

Investigator

posts 30

@Ghosthunterpat: Thanks for providing some info about your group and experiences had.  I too am curious to hear more about your KII hit.  I must be honest, I pay little if any regard to J/G's so-called KII sessions, besides the fact they've never – that I recall seeing – systematically ruled out all possible sources/causes. Much less taken the time to do a full base reading sweep, mapping/logging data at multiple points in the room/area and surrounding rooms/areas, taking additional readings at the mapped points at timed intervals or intermittently during the night to determine if MF fluxes/spikes occur, if so, was it transient or stationary [timing, duration, rate of drop-off etc], if a source cause was found etc.  I don't trust them quite frankly, and find it very hard to believe that time and again they can set their KII down and bingo they instantly get action. 

Not only has same not held true for others on the team, when you consider it isn't just the KII method that they 'apparently' have extraordinary success with but their flashlight and tapping [shave/haircut] methods as well, the BS meter starts to rise.  On top of that, time and again they walked into locales and activity happened within seconds or very shortly after they commenced with their sweep [or whatever they were doing]….by the end of the night they, more often than not, experienced and/or captured evidence of varied phenomena [some more than once].  

In S4 and thus far in S5, TAPS had PEs [personal experiences] and/or captured evidence at approx 85% of their investigations, with many locales serving up remarkable activity [upwards to 10 different phenomena]….considering they, on average, go lights out for a mere 6hrs – based on D/T stamps, PTT's, remarks by clients or J/G et al – during which time they stop for dinner/coffee breaks and to do a ridiculous number of redundant sound bites [play-by-play and I just saw type], it becomes beyond extraordinary.   

But I'm willing to keep an open mind about the KII, so if you & your team have conducted [scientific] experiments and have obtained some interesting results, please do share.  I'm a believer btw, albeit a skeptical one as I don't blindly believe all I hear, read, see, am told….nor instantly jump to a PN conclusion for things I and/or others experience, I fail to see how doing so will lead to gaining credible evidence, finding answers, or learning the truth.  JMO Smile  Good luck with your investigations and show.

9:42 am
June 29, 2009


Mugs

Investigator

posts 30

Learjet said:

That's interesting Mugs about the 100 Hertz light strobe. I've never heard of that technique before. I was thinking more along the lines of EMF frequency, but this is interesting none the less.

*

At the time of reading it was the first I'd heard of a 'strobing glasses system' and of using same to view areas in attempt to see anomalies.  I had however heard of putting a strobe light in a room and sitting and observing the room for a while and/or setting up a video cam and let it record for X amount of time with the light going. The idea of being able to scan infinite frequencies while wearing the glasses is intriquing, and I like that in doing same it is only one individual that is involved so that the room/area can be observed by others [or monitored with cams] sans glasses…that way if an anomaly is seen only by the person with the glasses you'll know that it 'might' have something to do with the frequency they were set at. 

'Thinking outside of the box', as is the case with the above, devising different tools/methods that might prove to not only be beneficial for collecting useful data and/or better evidence but with bringing us a step or two closer to understanding certain phenomena, is something that IMO we [generally speaking] need to do more of.  But that is a topic in/of itself that likely should be discussed separately [perhaps there's already a thread for it, I've yet to peruse all of the forum], so I'll leave my remarks at that for now. 

Here is the link for their report page, further down is more info [and photo of the set-up] on the PPC.

http://shadowboxent.brinkster.net/LEMUR/hauntedtennesseereport.html

3:47 am
January 2, 2010


emma

Guest

ghosthunterpat said:

We generally spend weeks finding out everything we can about the location we're investigating, including trying to interview witnesses, track source documentation such as land deeds, birth/death certificates, police reports, etc. Now, we're often less than successful at getting a lot of this information but we do try. Our group is just as interested in the history of a site as we are in the alleged paranormal activities that take place there.


Pat, I don't know if you're still reading this thread, and I must admit that I have not read all of the posts yet on this particulat thread nor on the forum so this may already be a topic somewhere esle, but I would like to know, are your reasearchers separate from your investigators?  I have a serious problem with these so-called "ghosthunter" groups who want to call their methods scientific, yet walk into the situation looking for particular phenomona.  any prior knowlegde of what to expect sets you up for confirmation bias.

everytime i watch GH, for instance, I cringe that the "investigators" do a walk-though with the property owners (managers, caretakers, etc) and discuss all of the reports of activity. the only people who need to know the reports are the techies, so they know where to put the equipment.

as somewhat of a scientist myself, i most sincerely hope that your "research" is designed better than that.  even personal experiences without hard evidence would be somewhat more believable if the investigators would shut their mouths during the investigations (instead of all that, "did you hear that?"  or "I saw a shadow!" nonsense) and keep their observations to themselves.  investigators should be required to complete a field report at the end of the investigation, to include their experiences.  no unneccessary talking amongst themselves until this is complete.  then you can compare the reports and see if the experiences match up.  i realize that this requires more people, but from what i can see the field of paranormal "research" isn't hurting for contributors. 

you keep referring to your "scientist."  exactly what training does this "scientist" have in research methods and design? in my experience, a degree in the "hard sciences," such as physics, has a lot of math and gadgets, but it isn't usually heavy in experiment design.  psychological and social research methods are much stronger fields for teaching minimization of confounding variables.

as far as the remotes go:  in my house, we have both IR and RF remotes.  i, like mary, have dish network, and it's a large house (4000+ square feet), and we don't have a reciever in every room. so we have IR ones for the rooms with the receivers and RF ones for the others.

and, if i recall correctly, at least one of the episodes of GH in question they were a military family.  were they in military housing?  as a former military brat myself, i can tell you, it is quite common to be able to change your neighbor's TV.   we used to have great fun with that!  people in military housing are grouped according to rank- your neighbors have approximately the same income. we all buy the same tvs from the same place- the px/bx.  they are often the same make and model, according to what is on sale, and the houses are often crammed so close together that you can smell each others' farts.

3:49 am
January 2, 2010


emma

Guest

ps   sorry about the typos

4:32 am
January 2, 2010


emma

Investigator in Training

posts 15

this part was edited out because alicat got her panties in a bunch and i never  intended to offend…

http://prosatellitesupply.com/REMOTE_CONTROLS.htm

scroll about halfway down and you'll see UHF (RF) remotes and upgrade kits.

11:13 am
January 4, 2010


alicat

Lead Investigator

posts 1214

Well emma, when one uses the word "retarded" describing a certain group of people, you are right.  It was and is offensive and you, yourself, apologized in another thread for being offensive.  However, because I would not "debate" you in that thread, you came back and changed your above post and took a swipe at me.  Odd, how someone who "claims" to be so intelligent would, as you put it, make such a "flip comment".  Now, let me post your comment, my response and then your apology just so we can set the record straight here because obviously now you don't think your post was offensive.  This was from the "and WE think PS is pathetic?" thread.

"And, please watch your phrasing.  In the forum on How TAPS finds their Investigation Sites…., you said:  "for the functionally retarded among you who are incapable of a google search:" In the future, kindly do not post such an extremely offensive comment."

"thank you, alicat.  i do apologize for offending anyone with my comment in the other thread- it was not meant to be offensive; it was a rather flip comment meant to point out the obvious lack of research put into various posts.  it was directed at no one in particular and everyone in general."

2:47 pm
January 4, 2010


Revenant

Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage"

Lead Investigator

posts 1393

emma said: "in my experience, a degree in the "hard sciences," such as physics, has a lot of math and gadgets, but it isn't usually heavy in experiment design."

Um…what?  Having a degree in the "hard sciences" myself…I was quite shocked to learn that what I do basically involves a lot of math and gadgets but isn't usually heavy in experiment design.  Really?  I was kind of under the impression that EVERYTHING that I do revolves around experiment design.  The "hard sciences" are nothing without it.  It is, quite frankly, an absurd notion.

In another section of your post you state "as somewhat of a scientist myself…"  I am now curious.  Obviously, you are not of the "hard science" ilk.  So if I may inquire…exactly what sort of scientist are you?

emma also said: "any prior knowlegde of what to expect sets you up for confirmation bias."

This has been heavily discussed in the past in other threads.  I will briefly sum up the counter-point.  As a chemist, I do not simply take a couple of chemicals, pour them into a beaker and see what happens.  There is a point to the experiment.  I am proving or disproving an expected response.  Without a clue of what to expect, not only would the experiment be highly dangerous, it would also most likely be pointless.  The claims of the paranormal community are quite varied.  Knowing in advance what to expect allows one to bring in the proper equipment and design the appropriate experiments.  (Whether ghost-hunters have the proper equipment, know how to design a valid experiment and carry it through…is an entirely different matter.)  Going in blind may be advantageous if the point is to confirm or possibly debunk anothers personal experience without the use of scientific evidence to support it.  Yet…walking about blind does very little for that "math and gadgets" thing that we call "hard science…"

Lastly, the "functionally retarded" bit.  It was a flippant remark and you were called on it.  Ok.  You apologized for it in another thread.  Kind of weird, but ok.  Then…editting it to the "panties in a bunch" comment…that's not really what we do here.  I realize that you have not been here for that long.  Many of us have.  We're generally a friendly bunch.  And sometimes things get heated.  It's the nature of the beast and that's fine.  Yet, we try our best not to snipe at each other.  And we certainly do not edit one offensive remark for another.  If you wish to stay and contribute to the site, I would urge you to reconsider such things in the future.  

"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer


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