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10:32 am
October 31, 2008
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kthorp
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| Investigator in Training | posts 3 |
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Doesn't anyone else see that the "soldier" is a doctor dressed in his OR garb? He is wearing a cap, gown, mask and gloves. After all, it was a morgue. Look at it very closely and you can see it.
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11:43 am
November 1, 2008
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Oubliette
| | Igloo in NJ | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 574 |
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Which episode do you mean?
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If 50 million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.
Anatole France
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8:35 pm
November 1, 2008
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Wallydraigle
| | Ohio | |
| Investigator | posts 114 |
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Are you talking about the one on the cabinet with the hot numeral 2? Looks like Grant's head to me.
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11:17 am
November 4, 2008
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kthorp
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| Investigator in Training | posts 3 |
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Oubliette said:
Which episode do you mean?
It's a hotel in arkansas now, but it used to be a cancer hosp. They were showing the reruns all week. This was probably from 3 or 4 seasons ago. Look at it closely and you can even see the gloves
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11:19 am
November 4, 2008
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kthorp
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| Investigator in Training | posts 3 |
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Wallydraigle said:
Are you talking about the one on the cabinet with the hot numeral 2? Looks like Grant's head to me.
They tried to make it reappear and could not so I believe it was not Grants head!
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1:08 am
November 5, 2008
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Stephen
| | San Jose, CA | |
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Hi kthorp,
Welcome to Skeptical Viewer!
There's a good web site about the Crescent Hotel sighting here:
http://www.ultimatetechlinks.com/CrescentHotelAnalysis.html
I'm pretty much in agreement with the points the author of that site makes.
Looking at thermal imaging, especially when thermal reflections are involved, can be pretty tricky. Since the image is blurry and, well, thermal, it's easy to fall into what Jay and Grant call "matrixing" (and what the skeptical community calls pareidolia). So one person can see a surgeon dressed for the OR, while another sees a soldier wearing a cap, while still another sees Grant's reflection.
The fact that Jay and Grant couldn't duplicate the image can't be used as evidence, because we don't know how close their attempt matched the original. Were they in the exact same locations in the room? Were the camera angles identical? They don't really have a way of recording exactly where the camera was pointed at a given moment, nor where everyone in the room was standing.
So I think it could have been, and probably was, Grant's reflection. I realize that not everyone will agree.
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Stephen the Friendly Skeptic
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10:04 am
November 9, 2008
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Haephiteus
| | Taylor, MI | |
| Investigator | posts 54 |
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I'm glad you posted that because I believe it was on the live halloween hunt that I seen Grant in the FLIR and noticed immediately how it reminded me of the soldier.
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You are a god among insects. Never let anyone tell you different. ~Magneto
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10:14 am
November 9, 2008
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Haephiteus
| | Taylor, MI | |
| Investigator | posts 54 |
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Forgot to add. I still question the #2. Can anyone explain or have a theory of why this would show up like that.
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You are a god among insects. Never let anyone tell you different. ~Magneto
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10:30 am
November 9, 2008
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Logisti
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The 2 was painted onto the locker so it naturally has different reflective qualities than the bare metal.
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10:50 am
November 9, 2008
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Haephiteus
| | Taylor, MI | |
| Investigator | posts 54 |
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That sounds logical. But I thought that they took the FLIR back over it and it didn't show up. Or did I remeber wrong.
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You are a god among insects. Never let anyone tell you different. ~Magneto
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11:36 am
November 9, 2008
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Logisti
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I thought they went back and were commenting on how the "soldier" was gone but the #2 was still "glowing" — but either way there is a simple explanation: the #2 is the same temperature as the rest of the locker so it could conceivably blend in almost entirely on the FLIR image if there were no reflections. Conversely, the more thermal reflections bouncing off the locker, the more visible the #2 will become because of its different reflective properties.
Essentially, without controlling for thermal reflections you could get either result (visible or invisible #2), but in a scenario where you are certain reflectivity is present (like when we see the "soldier") that should guarantee the #2 will stand out.
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6:08 pm
November 9, 2008
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Haephiteus
| | Taylor, MI | |
| Investigator | posts 54 |
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I seem to remember that when they went back it didn't show and Grant had put his hand on it and it only glowed where his hand was placed.Which leads me to this question, They went back during the day, could possible temperature change have played a role?
I think of the silliest things sometimes
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You are a god among insects. Never let anyone tell you different. ~Magneto
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5:36 am
December 7, 2008
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Andy
| | Liverpool | |
| Investigator | posts 101 |
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I thought 'he' looked like a security guard
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6:18 am
December 7, 2008
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dr_peter_venkman
| | Rochester, NY | |
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Haephiteus said:
That sounds logical. But I thought that they took the FLIR back over it and it didn't show up. Or did I remeber wrong.
After reading the analysis and viewing the images, I would have to chalk up the glowing 2 to differences in thermal reflectivity. I remember the "2" not showing up during their attempts to recreate the image. I would attribute this to the lack of thermal reflectance at that time. I've never used a FLIR but I would guess that it is constantly adapting to the range of temperatures being sensed. The colors used in the images are false colors assigned to specific "bins" of small temperature ranges lying within the overal range of the sensed field of view. When you point the FLIR at the locker and no heat is being reflected from another source, the locker should appear as a fairly uniform field. Unless you touch it with your hand of course. However when you point it at the locker and are picking up reflected heat, you are going to get a much different image that represents the heat being reflected back. My guess is that the white paint of the "2" is more thermally reflective than the surrounding metal and it reflected more of the source's heat back to the FLIR.
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Hee hee hee! "Get her!" That was your whole plan, huh, "get her." Very scientific.
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9:45 am
December 7, 2008
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Haephiteus
| | Taylor, MI | |
| Investigator | posts 54 |
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Thanks Dr Peter
Wish one of us had a FLIR to test that one.
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You are a god among insects. Never let anyone tell you different. ~Magneto
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1:04 pm
December 7, 2008
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Oubliette
| | Igloo in NJ | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 574 |
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The analysis at the link Stephen provided clinched that for me. Saw it before quite a while ago. The image and Grant's reflection match up perfectly.
I believe Jay and Grant know this. In later episodes they have made it a point to remark several times of how FLIR images can be a reflection of something in the room. To me that is an indication that they believe it to have been Grant but haven't, at least to my knowledge, openly admitted as much.
After all, taken just on face value, it does look very impressive.
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If 50 million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.
Anatole France
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1:43 pm
December 7, 2008
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SkepticalRader
| | California | |
| Investigator | posts 38 |
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I remember when I first saw the reflection in the locker. My first thought that it was a military uniform and cap, but I'm certain this was caused by the power of suggestion. The roman numeral two is positioned just right to appear to be a shoulder patch.
I believe that this was purely coincidental and not done on purpose. I further believe that Jason and Grant DID know who the reflection was of. How could they not? But to admit that would not be as exciting as accepting the alternate explanation.
Run with it.
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4:37 am
December 31, 2008
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IMINT
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| Investigator in Training | posts 4 |
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Hi everyone; new to the forum.
I just watched this episode on DVD, and with respect to the apparition figure that looks like someone wearing an army hat, with its brim noticeable, I will agree with others that it is Grant.
If one were to look at Grant’s hair, it falls in a nice pattern that could easily look like that of a hat, which is what Jason and Grant claim to see.
The next issue is that it is really noticeable that the “ghost” is wearing a short-sleeve shirt; someone comments that the shirt seems "buttoned up." Grant almost always wears buttoned-downed collared short-sleeve shirts.
Furthermore, the right arm is bent, which would be akin to that of Grant holding the "clam-shell" attached to the FLIR.
Why is the “2” on the locker so hot? Well, because the “2” is painted white. White is going to reflect heat. More than likely, the white number 2 was reflecting the heat of Jason, Grant, and the camera operator and any of their equipment.
Why was it not reproducible? If you’ll recall, Grant and Jason opened the locker to look for someone inside it, but couldn’t find anyone. By opening up the locker they contaminate the scene. We, the viewers, have no idea if the locker door was ajar or fully closed when J&G saw the “ghost.”
Anyway, I found J&G’s explanation of the apparition to be amateur at best; hoaxing at worst.
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1:24 pm
December 31, 2008
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Dr. Peter Venkman
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If J&G tried to do a recreation and could not get any reflection off the locker, then just what is it that they suspect we are seeing ?
Was it some kind of invisible, partially transparent to IR appiration between the lens and the locker ?
A heat signature left on the locker surface as a hot spirit passes through it ?
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