| User | Post |
|
12:09 pm April 29, 2009
| Revenant
| | Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage" | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1393 |
|
|
Actually, science may be providing us with the perfect ghost-hunting companion for Barry and his UV camera:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/29/2556351.htm
Now if only we can switch them from UV to IR…then we could have dogs for the whole team…
|
"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
|
|
|
1:00 pm April 29, 2009
| alicat
| | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1215 |
|
|
Revenant, I saw this article and immediately thought of Barry too.
I thought and thought about it and then it made me sick. I do have a very big ethical problem with this. I can't believe that scientists are performing these experiments and it upsets me greatly that they do it on the pretense of discovering a cure. What a sad commentary on life that we feel we can do this just because we can and then say we are doing it to cure disease. It brings up such raw and mixed emotions because I have the type of dog that is considered a "disposable" dog and sold to laboratories for testing due to it's peaceful and gentle nature.
I think the last sentence is very telling: "The scientists are hoping the long lifespan of dogs and their reproductive cycle could make them more relevant to human fertility than mice."
Now that I've brought everyone down, since I had no control over it, and it's been done under the guise of healing, it was incredible to see.
|
|
|
1:39 am April 30, 2009
| Revenant
| | Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage" | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1393 |
|
|
alicat said:
What a sad commentary on life that we feel we can do this just because we can and then say we are doing it to cure disease.
Yes, I understand your point of view. I own two dogs myself. Yet…I must disagree. I am not defending using dogs to study deseases. It is your use of the word "we" and what it implies.
The word "we" implies mankind. I understand the sentiment, but mankind is certainly not united by shared morality. One can also make a strong argument that mankind is deeply divided by territory. The study is being done is South Korea. Different culture, different history, different outlook on life. You may disagree with it, yet, it will unforunately change nothing in South Korea.
The only reason I bring this up, Alicat, is because a friend of mine's wife came after me like a mother Bear protecting her cubs. Apparently, I am her representive of "science" (sadly…not a paid position). I got blasted with "How can you scientists to do this?" and "Science isn't above God" and…wow. I just sat there and let her vent. I finally said "Um…I've got nothing to do with any scientific experiment being done in South Korea. I haven't the slightest clue what South Korean scientists are up…beyond making dogs glow (and for the record…probably not the best time for that joke…)."
So really, I'm right with you with the outrage. Yet, it's going to fall upon deaf ears…
|
"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
|
|
|
7:12 am April 30, 2009
| Oubliette
| | Igloo in NJ | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 574 |
|
|
I am upset beyond words. What bothers me most is that without dogs (and horses) Western Civilization as we know it would not exist. Yes, I'm going off on a tangent here, but stuff like this shows which side is breaking (and always has broken) the pact that has existed for untold years between man and canines.
|
If 50 million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.
Anatole France
|
|
|
7:35 am April 30, 2009
| alicat
| | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1215 |
|
|
Thanks for your response Revenant. You are correct. I should have singled them out and not implied mankind. It was their tinkering with science that produced these results. Yes, it is frustrating and I understand your friend's venting. I'm glad you gave her the opportunity to express her outrage. It is South Korea, and the world is filled with different cultures, different histories, etc. One can never guess why anyone does anything these days here or abroad. However, one would think that given the state of South Korea, they would have better things to do with their time and efforts such as trying to help their country instead of trying to spin science under the guise of curing disease. People there need the help. The puppies don't need to glow in the dark. It scares me as to the ramifications of these types of experiments and our future.
Not to get on a high horse here (this isn't show related) but on the other hand, the US is not blameless. Thousands of dogs are bought and sold for laboratory experiments every day and some dog track owners give them away for this purpose because once they are no longer making money for them, they are a liability and they instantly want to get rid of them. More tracks and owners are working with rescue groups but there are only so many dogs they can take. Haulers are overcrowded and dogs are constanly dying while being packed in like sardines into these hauls going cross country with no heat in the winter or air conditioning in the spring through fall. There was even a man who was jailed in Florida when they found over 3,000 greyhounds dead and dumped all around on his property. I'll stop now because this is not the correct forum. But if people in the US cannot feel compassion for these animals, what does it say about the compassion they feel for people?
I'm happy you have dogs who are lucky to be members of your household. Feed them well and give them attention. That's all they ask.
Edited:
@ Oubliette: I saw your post after I finished and posted. You know I totally agree with you.
|
|
|
12:24 pm April 30, 2009
| Revenant
| | Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage" | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1393 |
|
|
alicat said:
I'm happy you have dogs who are lucky to be members of your household. Feed them well and give them attention. That's all they ask.
As I type this, I have one dog asleep at my feet under the computer desk. The other one is right behind me, sitting and looking out the window. I am surrounded… 
Just a quick note…a while back, I was offered a job with a lab. Huge lab, fancy-schmancy toys to play with and big money(well, for science…). I was heavily considering it…until we got to a particular testing lab. She opened the door, I saw the animals, I turned to her, thanked her for her time and for the offer, and walked out. I don't associate myself with that type of testing. None my friends in other science fields do either. We're not "animal advocates" or anything…we're just normal people who don't want to harm animals. I do personally know a few scientists who test on animals. The funny part? Never really liked any of them and it wasn't due to their testing methods either. It's odd. It must take a certain personality type to do those types of tests.
Does the US still experiment on animals? Yes, but it is on the decline. Advancement in computer models is helping. Also, there is a growing…"general distaste" for it amongst US scientists. The trend is relatively recent. I've seen small changes in the scientific community in the last 25 years. Perhaps in the next 25 years, we'll see even more change. So, there is hope…
And now? Time to walk the dogs… 
|
"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
|
|
|
2:49 pm April 30, 2009
| alicat
| | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1215 |
|
|
@ Revenant: Hope you had a good walk. Your post made me smile. 
I realized at one point in my life that every person I felt comfortable to be around and/or considered my friend, was a pet owner of some sort. Generally they were "dog people" but having had a variety of pets in my lifetime (sadly down to 1 dog and 1 cat now), I realized there is a certain compassion and respect for life we all shared whether it be dogs, cats, horses, rabbits, ducks, birds, iguanas, snakes, fish or even a chinchilla. Oops! I'm giving away the secret to previous family pets! I was brought up to believe in a duty and responsibility to take care of all animals and have a difficult time with those that don't respect it.
I applaud you and your friends for your convictions. Initially it's a hard decision to make but once you make it, you know you did the right thing. I'm glad to see things changing. We just have to keep pushing it along and hope it comes about sooner rather than later.
I'm hearing the "I'm hungry" chorus now which means I'm late in feeding the troups. Thanks for the encouragement.
|
|
|
5:56 pm May 3, 2009
| Liz M
| | NY | |
| Investigator | posts 30 |
|
|
Stephen said:
I'm all in favor of the dog, though– it would be one member that I could be certain wasn't deliberately hoaxing.
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I thought there were some whistles that only dogs could hear. If they do exist, wouldn't it be possible for them to utilize one of these whistles and get the dog to react? The bonus would be if it got picked up as an EVP, which of course they would turn into some phrase not remotely sounding like what we heard. Win win for GH.
So even if the dog isn't hoaxing, I wouldn't put it past someone to use the dog in the perpetration of a hoax.
|
|
|
9:25 pm May 3, 2009
| Hannah
| | Texas | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 361 |
|
|
Liz M said:
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I thought there were some whistles that only dogs could hear. If they do exist, wouldn't it be possible for them to utilize one of these whistles and get the dog to react? The bonus would be if it got picked up as an EVP, which of course they would turn into some phrase not remotely sounding like what we heard. Win win for GH.
So even if the dog isn't hoaxing, I wouldn't put it past someone to use the dog in the perpetration of a hoax.
Yes, there are certain ranges that canines can hear and humnas cannot. I would also not put it past GH to "use" the dog in this fashion.
I am glad to hear of the decline of testing using animals. I have had a lot of pets over the years, mostly strays who have found us. Living out on a farm you would be amazed the number of people who dump their unwanted dogs in the country expecting them to "return to nature" or something. They have been wonderful pets. I am glad to say that the dumping has tapered off over the years, and our current dog is from an animal shelter.
|
|
|
11:29 pm May 3, 2009
| Stephen
| | San Jose, CA | |
| Admin
| posts 589 |
|
|
I'm quite sure that, if they did bring a dog aboard, it would be perfectly possible to make the dog act funny in various ways. However, the dog would be innocent. It wouldn't be hoaxing; all it would be thinking is something like, "Oh! Squeaky noise! Bark!" or "Hmm! Smells like a dog treat! Bark!" or perhaps "Bark! For no reason!"
|
Stephen the Friendly Skeptic
|
|
|
7:08 am May 4, 2009
| alicat
| | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1215 |
|
|
@ Stephen: I agree, the dog would be innocent and wouldn't be hoaxing. They have no capacity to make those distinctions. You can train dogs to do almost anything as we have seen in numerous tv shows and movies. One fun event to watch on tv is agility event and also flyball. There are all types of programs on Animal Planet and even ESPN. There is one which shows a dog's capacity to go through mazes underground (Jack Russell Terriers) to get to it's prey. It's based on the rat/mouse in a maze trying to find the cheese at the end but with the dogs, they actually build tunnels underground with cameras and then the dogs are timed trying to find the prize. I think the best is the agility because it shows a variety of tasks in a timed environment. The key is the trainer who has to keep pace and communicate with the dog as to where and when to go on the course. It's extremely fast paced for both dog and trainer/owner but it also shows the dog's trainability with the right individual.
As a side note, there was a post in the "Grant's on Twitter" forum where now it looks like Jason and Tango are also now on Twitter. Apparrently Jason posted a picture of his German Shepherd. As I noted there, I wonder if he is laying down the beginnings of GH bringing in a dog. Maybe it's a stretch but nothing would surprise me. Living with Jason, he must have picked up on those same paranormal "feelings".
@ Hannah: Thank you for caring for all those unannounced animals that came to the farm. It upsets me greatly when I hear about the dumping of animals. Also, it is wonderful that you adopted from a shelter. I won't go into a rant here but I just want to say thank you and your family for showing such kindness.
|
|
|
7:29 am May 4, 2009
| blinddog
| | Special Agent Zombie Elimination Agency | |
| Moderator
| posts 857 |
|
|
@alicat,
As a matter of fact Jason's dog has acquired by osmosis some abilities to detect the paranormal.
The dog has to eat a number of green Milk Bones everyday to keep from being overwhelmed by cat spirit entities.
The pooch doesn't like to talk about it.
|
Double tap to the head. Don't become Undead.
|
|
|
7:34 am May 4, 2009
| alicat
| | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1215 |
|
|
@ blinddog50,
Sounds like you've gotten the "scoop"! 
|
|
|
7:56 am May 4, 2009
| blinddog
| | Special Agent Zombie Elimination Agency | |
| Moderator
| posts 857 |
|
|
alicat said:
@ blinddog50,
Sounds like you've gotten the "scoop"! 
Just overhearing the usual flea gossip.
The dog has his own method of detecting spectral footprints and it doesn't involve flour.
This is usually followed by some amazingly profane evps.
|
Double tap to the head. Don't become Undead.
|
|
|
11:54 am May 4, 2009
| Hannah
| | Texas | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 361 |
|
|
blinddog50 said:
alicat said:
@ blinddog50,
Sounds like you've gotten the "scoop"! 
Just overhearing the usual flea gossip. The dog has his own method of detecting spectral footprints and it doesn't involve flour. This is usually followed by some amazingly profane evps.
Blinddog can help me keep an eye on Jason's pooch. I'll check on Twitter occasionally, and he can keep up with the flea gossip.
|
|
|
11:59 am May 4, 2009
| alicat
| | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1215 |
|
|
@ Hannah, that seems like a plan to me! I'm counting on you both. Sounds like you'll have it covered from one end to the other! 
|
|
|
12:23 pm May 4, 2009
| StanTheMan
| | Lincoln, RI | |
| Investigator | posts 89 |
|
|
Maybe we are reading this incorrectly. Maybe they are bringing in a blind dog. Or maybe is's blinddog. Was it flea gossip or maybe insider info.
|
|
|
12:41 pm May 4, 2009
| alicat
| | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1215 |
|
|
@ StanTheMan: I guess we will have to wait for the next installment! LOL!
|
|
|
1:33 pm May 4, 2009
| blinddog
| | Special Agent Zombie Elimination Agency | |
| Moderator
| posts 857 |
|
|
NOPE.
Not me.
Failed in the audition segment.
Had a small accident involving Grant's flashlight.
Boy! Was he pissed(hint).
Not one to be easily discouraged, went next door to GHI.
Didn't work out well either.
Had a short inappropriate affair with Barry's Hat. I thought it was a Shih Tzu.
That's where I got the fleas.
|
Double tap to the head. Don't become Undead.
|
|