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1:35 am October 28, 2009
| gman26
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| Investigator in Training | posts 11 |
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I think by now unless your real gullable. Everyone knows that television is fake. Yet it amazes me how many people watch GH and many other simlilar programs. Only to be dismayed to find that the stuff they catch is more that questionable at times. Its a T.V programme! no ghosts means no viewers. Even if Jason and Grant are'nt pulling stunts themselves, someone will be.
If you want definate proof of the existance of ghosts and evidence that cant be fake. Get out there and do it for your self. Only then can you be certain. Thats how i know that theres no point in all the E.M.F meters and temperature gauges. All you need is a video camera, a digital voice recorder and a digital camera for taking pictures. If you are gonna catch something it will be on one of those. Any thing else just a gimmic and wastes time.
I love GH but not because it delivers paranormal activity show after show. But because its hilariouse some of the lengths they go to to deliver. And occationaly they turn up something that could possibly be paranormal. They are in haunted locations after all. Although a lot of these places are just publicity driven like when Jason and grant became the clients that one time. Shameless but funny.
Lighten up and get out there and do it for yourself, and if you want to see a real stage show. try watching most haunted it makes GH look great.
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8:34 am October 28, 2009
| Nosfer
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You presume much by assuming that no one here has done anything themselves.
Also, since you've apparently solved the mystery, please post your evidence which proves undeniably that temperature and emf are of no use.
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2:02 pm October 28, 2009
| timmyj3
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| Investigator in Training | posts 11 |
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I think it should be the other way around. Prove temps and emf's mean anything. I agree with gman that temps and emfs mean just about nothing. Most skeptics want proof that is clear, convincing, and beyond reproach. I know its asking a lot but that is what it will take.
I used to work in a building that was a former car dealer and full service set up. It was built in the 40's. We were there in the 80's and 90's. The temperature in that office and warehouse space varied a lot from desk to desk. Dont know why it just did. I could haul 20 people to a court of law and they would swear that was true. What does it mean though? My guess is its just a 70 year old building with some funky air flow.
Just saying. Tim
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3:35 pm October 28, 2009
| The Doctor
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| Lead Investigator | posts 488 |
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gman26 said:
All you need is a video cameraa digital voice recorder and a digital camera for taking pictures. If you are gonna catch something it will be on one of those. Any thing else just a gimmic and wastes time.
Are you so sure ? Ghost Hunters has hundreds of hours of videos taken in the supposedly hottest areas, with little to show for it, yet the team reports seeing shadows, appiritions and faces with their own eyes all the time. In this latest episode at the theatre, they reported seeing something that should have been caught on video, yet for some reason wasn't.
There must be millions of hours of survelience video shot each year, so where are all the ghosts ?
Maybe Casper just can't be caught on video.
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4:09 pm October 28, 2009
| Bobarino
| | Valencia, CA | |
| Investigator | posts 181 |
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Hi Gman,
I think the real thing to remember is the burden of proof isn't on us, the skeptic, but rather on the investigator making the claim a location is haunted.
As of today, there is no proof of the existence of ghosts. Maybe it will never come. Maybe we will see it tonight. We have debated that subject on another thread as well, but the real bottom line is it is not OUR job to prove ghosts don't exist.
Here is the basic difference: As an example, look at the Hanger-toss incident in GH. For us, we look at the video they provide and came down with a reasonable and likely real world explanation. The GH team decided a ghost did it and labeled the house haunted.
It just seems to make sense that if there are two explanations for an event, one based in the real world that we know exists, and one based on an assumption that ghosts exist, I will go with the real world explanation every time.
I for one hope we do find the evidence. I am very fascinated by the subject, and have done more than sit around and read about it. I have had a "UFO encounter" first hand. But even on my encounter, I still think there was a real world explanation, one that i just didn't realize at the time when adrenaline was pumping. Even though I know what happened, I will not declare that aliens have visited the planet until I exhaust every real-world possibility.
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I've found that being AWESOME is a full time job…
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4:14 pm October 28, 2009
| Nosfer
| | Rotaredom | |
| Moderator
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gman and timmy:
Cameras and digital voice recorders are BS, you don't need them on an investigation because they won't tell you anything. All you need in an investigation is a beechwood stick. See, I can make random conclusions based upon nothing, too.
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4:44 pm October 28, 2009
| Angelayo1970
| | Sysematically breaking all my new year's resolutions | |
| Investigator | posts 162 |
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You know Nosfer, there's this theory that the beechwood stick is even more reliable than dowsing rods to indicate the presence of a spirit…
AND THAT IS MY 100TH POST!!!!! WOOHOO!!!!
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"In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual." -Galileo Galilei
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4:55 pm October 28, 2009
| Nosfer
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Angelayo1970 said:
You know Nosfer, there's this theory that the beechwood stick is even more reliable than dowsing rods to indicate the presence of a spirit…
AND THAT IS MY 100TH POST!!!!! WOOHOO!!!!
I know, much better! That's why I use beechwood exclusively in my investigations…and comes in handy for whacking nosy onlookers, too :) The best thing is that, unlike cameras, the stick has no battery for the ghost to drain so it works even after your useless camera shuts down!
WOOHOO!!! And welcome to the triple-digit club!!!
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Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.
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5:01 pm October 28, 2009
| alicat
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| Lead Investigator | posts 1215 |
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Angelayo1970 said:
AND THAT IS MY 100TH POST!!!!! WOOHOO!!!!
Congratulations Angelayo1970! As Nosfer said, welcome to the triple-digit club!!!
ali
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5:03 pm October 28, 2009
| Angelayo1970
| | Sysematically breaking all my new year's resolutions | |
| Investigator | posts 162 |
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Awww…sniff….thanks guys!!! I just want to thank everyone who made this moment possible…LOL
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"In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual." -Galileo Galilei
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5:05 pm October 28, 2009
| Nosfer
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Angelayo1970 said:
Awww…sniff….thanks guys!!! I just want to thank everyone who made this moment possible…LOL
And in recognition, we'd like to confer upon you this personally autographed official beechwood staff. May it serve you faithfully on your investigations!
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Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.
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5:09 pm October 28, 2009
| Angelayo1970
| | Sysematically breaking all my new year's resolutions | |
| Investigator | posts 162 |
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Nosfer said:
And in recognition, we'd like to confer upon you this personally autographed official beechwood staff. May it serve you faithfully on your investigations!
OMG…I will hold it close to my heart, always! Unless I need to use it to beat the crap out of someone…
Geez, I've been meeting in the basement with the Chicago mob for waaaay too long!
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"In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual." -Galileo Galilei
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10:53 pm November 4, 2009
| shepjn
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| Investigator in Training | posts 4 |
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Sorry if re-hashing older posts is a no-no.
I wanted to add my 2 cents. I am not a fan of the 1 knock for yes 2 knocks for no however I wanted to refer of the GH episode of the Manson Murders location in Hollywood CA.
In no way am I screaming "True True True" but remember when they are sitting in a circle in the bedroom with one of the TAPS West Coast team members and they identify the spirit of Jay Sebring and successfully ask a series of questions utilizing the 1 flash for yes and 2 for no via a K2 Meter.
I dunno but I think that when investigating why not use all the tools available that may provide any insight to the paranormal world?
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12:05 am November 5, 2009
| Oubliette
| | Igloo in NJ | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 574 |
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Old or new posts–we still love to discuss them all (well, most of them!).
The problems with the Manson episode and the K-II has been discussed here often but it's worth talking about again.
The K-II meter is nothing but a blinking ouija board. A lot of us here are very skeptical about how easily it can be manipulated and I'm sticking my neck out but think I speak for the majority when I say that we think it and the answers it gets are bunk and probably being controlled by outside sources. In fact, someone here made the very astute observation that whenever Joe Chin answered his walkie-talkie it made his K-II light up like a Christmas tree. Also, the guy who introduced it, Chris Fleming, has a dubious reputation at best.
I don't for a minute think they contacted anyone in that episode, and probably in no other episode as well. The Ouija Board has been disproven as a device that is subconciously (or deliberately) controlled by those holding the planchette. The K-II meter responses are "too good to be true" and seems to point at trickery on somebody's part. (There's some excellent threads here on this very dubious piece of equipment.)
As skeptics we try to look at worldy explanations why something seems to elicit a response. I understand your point about trying different methods as this field is really wide open when it comes to finding a way to determine if something truly unusual is going on. Perhaps fluctuation in energy fields might provide some kind of insight into hauntings, but the only instruments that would be worth anything would be those developed by actual scientists from various fields like physics and engineering who have a clue as to how the physical world works. Without knowing that first, people can be easily drawn into producing such idiotic devices as the Telephone to the Dead and the now famous Parabot. Which of course unfortunately just makes all serious investigators look silly.
The answers will, I'm sure, one day come from science, but not these amateurish methods by those who have no real training or background and don't even understand the instruments they are currently using (like the FLIR, for instance, which GH doesn't even know how to properly calibrate, thus nullifying anything they may pick up on it).
So your thinking is right, but so far all we are seeing are attempts by people literally fumbling around in the dark without the necessary knowledge to know just what they are doing.
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If 50 million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.
Anatole France
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1:21 am November 5, 2009
| Bobarino
| | Valencia, CA | |
| Investigator | posts 181 |
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shepjn said:
I dunno but I think that when investigating why not use all the tools available that may provide any insight to the paranormal world?
Hi Shepjn,
This is an interesting point I have thought about a lot. I do think, as Oubliette stated as well, the answers will come from science. There may be some merit to the "throw it all against the wall and see what sticks" approach when it comes to finding the right tool. Maybe it will yield a tool that actually works. But in the mean time you are left trying a bunch of tools that may seem to be giving you readings but really don't mean anything and lead you down the wrong path, like the K-II. I think that method will be counter-productive.
A better approach would be to come up with a scientifically sound reason as to why a tool may work, then use it. Not try something out, get a result, then claim it is proof of paranormal without reason (K-II).
To further make the point, here is something to think about. It is a quote from Benjamin Radford posted on the Wikipedia page on GH, in the "Criticism" section (direct link below). I agree with this quote:
"you may own the world's most sophisticated thermometer, but if you are using it as a barometer, your measurements are worthless. Just as using a calculator doesn't make you a mathematician, using a scientific instrument doesn't make you a scientist."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_hunters
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I've found that being AWESOME is a full time job…
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2:20 am November 5, 2009
| Learjet
| | Australia | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1122 |
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The Manson K-II session was so fake it reeks. All questions (bar one) were deliberately asked to get a yes response and 2 flashes.
Now the K-II has a thumb switch which is overly sensitive to the slightest movement. Breathe on it and the K-II then goes into a reboot sequence which is – 2 flashes. Every yes question Chris Flemming asked was answered by a reboot caused by thumb movement, not a ghost. I timed it against mine and it is a perfect match.
This switch weakness in the K-II was later addressed by either a modified switch or a coin jammed against the plastic pressure pad. But by then they figured out that the K-II can be set off by radio transmissions and the monkey business continues.
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3:51 am November 5, 2009
| Ghostbusters101
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Heck you say. So my K-II flux capacitor thingamagig is useless? Thats impossible. I seen it work countless times on GH and I know if they endorse it, its worth its weight in gold. It worked so well a couple of times, it would flash even before they asked a question. So your conclusion that its fake is just ludicrous. Or at least you could have said something a week ago before I purchased mine from the GH store. Here I will prove it works. I am using it right now as I type. Here is my question to you Mr. K-II, one flash no and two flash yes, are you fake?
DANG IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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4:28 am November 5, 2009
| Learjet
| | Australia | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1122 |
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Ghostbusters101 said:
It worked so well a couple of times, it would flash even before they asked a question.
Yeah it does that too. The ghost is obviously precognitive!
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8:16 am November 5, 2009
| The Doctor
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| Lead Investigator | posts 488 |
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Learjet said:
Yeah it does that too. The ghost is obviously precognitive!
Meant to ask -
We know that Jason fiddles with his flashlight to find the sweet spot where Casper can turn it on or off.
Did you notice anything like that on the KII where you could stick the coin in a sort of "balenced" position.
My first assumption is that you checked that out allready, but you never know.
On a side note – I wonder if he ever had one in his hand luggage when going through security – that would be interesting !
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