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6:40 pm November 14, 2009
| blinddog
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alicat,
I agree with you 98.9%.
The thing I can see Donna maybe having a right to complain about is that when GH started they were all more or less on equal footing.
They all worked for Pilgrim.
When J&G became producers she went from working for Pilgrim (eh?) to working for J&G.
She and the others may have thought that being as they helped make TAPS what it was that maybe a little gravy should be coming their way.
Apparently the gravy boat never made it to their end of the table.
J&G found it easier to replace people than to share the green.
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6:50 pm November 14, 2009
| alicat
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| Lead Investigator | posts 1214 |
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BD,
I understand where you are coming from however, it was J & G who were the founders of TAPS and I don't believe in any way that the other members were on the same level. If someone owned a company and it was purchased by another, the President and VP would be the ones that would benefit at a higher level than the employees. Yes, they were all employees of Pilgrim but the hierarchy was already established. There is no way that GH would ever have come to fruition if J & G hadn't signed on and were not treated according to their status. I see absolutely nothing wrong with that. They all still work for Pilgrim except J & G are on a different level and always were. In a company, people are always let go for one reason or another and usually it's money. Their fate was no different. It happens all the time.
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7:02 pm November 14, 2009
| Nosfer
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Bottomline…when you're signing something, make sure you know what's above the line that you're signing on because your signature means that you are agreeing to that which is above what you signed.
Caveat sigillator
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7:02 pm November 14, 2009
| Angelayo1970
| | Sysematically breaking all my new year's resolutions | |
| Investigator | posts 162 |
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I found it interesting that Donna says, when asked by the Ghost Diva's if she thinks there will be a lot of fall out from her giving this interview, her reply is "Oh, yeah! Definitely!" She also says she doesn't care about "pissing people off". Yet in her post on scifake she says that she never intended to create drama and that wasn't what she was all about. That comment completely contradicts the majority of her statements in the interview. I think at this point she is trying to do damage control for her reputation. I'm almost wondering if she listened to the interview after the fact and realized how petty and vindictive she came across. I'm not saying I think she said anything untrue or suspect in her statements, but she certainly didn't come across as a controlled and mature woman in the interview. I had always been a fan of Donna, but I have to say, I've lost some respect for her just because of the way she presented herself. Her vulgarity aside (which I'm not a total virgin in the swearing realm, but I think it does tend to make a person sound less intelligent than they really are, specifically in a public forum), there were certainly more intelligent and dignified ways she could have gotten her points across.
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"In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual." -Galileo Galilei
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7:25 pm November 14, 2009
| blinddog
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Maybe Brian will help "spill the beans'.
http://www.brianharnois.net/bio.html
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7:27 pm November 14, 2009
| alicat
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| Lead Investigator | posts 1214 |
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BD – getting an error page
EDIT: just went to http://www.brianharnois.net and clicked on BIO instead
So, he's writing a book. We'll see. Something tells me, he may have a chapter but after this hit, it's saved somewhere for future use and legal review.
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7:32 pm November 14, 2009
| Nosfer
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I'm batting about .200 as far as finding links on his pages that are actually valid :(
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8:49 pm November 14, 2009
| Stephen
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Logisti and I were on Ghost Divas last year, and the interview is a very free-wheeling experience– you go in and join the party.
Here's my transcript of a part of the interview where they touch on hoaxing:
DIVAS: Honestly, the staging thing. Cuz the rumor is, now, is that there's a staging crew on the TAPS production, there, there, where they do nothing but stage the evidence that's going to be… so they, I don't wanna call them magicians because they're not even that good. I mean the things that they're putting out here lately are just total crap. Now I gotta ask, back in the day, did you have any run-ins with, um, you know, him, them saying, "Make sure the, the cable's in there, the EMF meters, and the FISHING LINE?"
(LAUGHTER)
DONNA: Uh, I never was exposed to any of those conversations and I think it's because had I been exposed to that I would flip my lid and they, they knew me enough to know that uh, I could not know of any of that. And I do believe the same thing with the other cast members because it would put them in an awkward position.
DIVAS: So do you think anything was staged, did you notice anything where you were going, "Really, people? Seriously, you're doing this? I mean, Really?" I mean, did you notice anything at that time?
DONNA: Yes!
DIVAS: I mean, on GHI or on the original Ghost Hunters show?
DONNA: Yup, there was one turning point that happened, um, and I must have cried for about four days straight! Because, I, this is, paranormal research and investigation I hold high and dear, and it's part of my life, and I went into a serious, serious depression, because it's, like… being lied to! You know, like, "Keep your mouth shut" and lied to!
DIVAS: So what show was that, so we could, kinda, keep an eye on it?
DONNA: Um…
DIVAS: What did they do?
DONNA: Well… the show… Well, I don't… I really don't feel comfortable saying what show it is, um, but there was a lot of editing involved. I wish I could say something but… legally… I don't know.
DIVAS: Well, you don't have to.
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Stephen the Friendly Skeptic
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8:50 pm November 14, 2009
| Learjet
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| Lead Investigator | posts 1075 |
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Nosfer said:
Bottomline…when you're signing something, make sure you know what's above the line that you're signing on because your signature means that you are agreeing to that which is above what you signed.
Caveat sigillator
But they make the writing so small and the content so long and the norti bits are microscopic lol.
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10:02 pm November 14, 2009
| The Doctor
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| Lead Investigator | posts 488 |
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Nosfer said:
Jason's Response:
scifake.com/?p=2488
Not so much a response as a "statement" since it appears that Pilgrim and/or SyFy is preparing a response.
Picked this from what Jason had to say -
"We have reporters show up to cases all the time, without ours or Syfy’s knowledge. Look at all the articles that get done in every town we are in, If we were faking things I truly believe it would have come out by now from that."
Does Jason expect us to believe that local reporters are allowed to wander around the location during the setup or investigation ? Does a reporter get to frisk Grant to see if he has his garage door opener in his pocket during a KII session ?
What was his response on the proven FLIR image fake again ?
Curious that he never seems to mention Pilgrim – I don't think SyFy is involved in the details at the production end of things, although they certainly could give orders if they wanted to.
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11:58 pm November 14, 2009
| Elphie
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| Investigator in Training | posts 2 |
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From the reading of the transcript, it's unclear if Donna was saying the creative editing was done on GH or GHI. To be honest, I think both are guilty.
I listened to an earlier interview with her several months back ( the interview with Ghost Divas was not the first ) and she was complaining that Pilgrim was editing their film to make it appear that she and fellow Ghost Hunter, Shannon Sylvia, were constantly at odds and bickering with each other. Not unlike what they did with Brian.
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12:03 am November 15, 2009
| Oubliette
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| Lead Investigator | posts 574 |
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Orion said:
Just wondering.. are you a lawyer? You sound like one.
You really would've left TAPS at that point, while watching everyone else you knew and worked with for years become semi-famous household names ? (Before it blew up of course) I dunno.. how old was she again?
I've seen legal contracts, and I have a technical education, it's not like I'm illiterate; I can't make heads or tails of that gobbledygook for the most part. I can make more sense of a schematic. I think that's why they do that, to confuse the crap out of people. It's like a secret language for lawyers. Granted, you should always take a contract to another bloodsucke.. err, I mean, attorney, to have it examined before signing it, but what if the attorney you go to is lousy or lazy?
Do you think Jason and Grant were that much more intelligent or wise than everyone else in TAPS, that they ensured that their contracts were so much more lucrative.. or that maybe they were just at the right place at the right time through, largely, luck? I'm thinking the latter..
I have to agree with you about contracts–that's how we were taken in years ago by a lending bank way before this "predatory lending" thing became big news. If we had let a good attorney who specialized in lending (and not many did at the time we were going through that mess) a lot of heartache could have been avoided.
Personally IMO many contracts are especially written to confuse and words used in such a way so that later they can be twisted around. I won't elaborate on my opinion about some members of the legal profession and the way it is all set up.
I think contracts come up every so often for renewal (remember when Kris W didn't appear at the last Halloween Live show due to contract negotiation?) and Jay and Grant got the best legal advice their money could buy.
In Donna's case, I don't think a contract really lies at the bottom of all this. It was her treatment by them IMO and when hers came up for renewal she said "No thanks".
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If 50 million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.
Anatole France
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12:27 am November 15, 2009
| Elphie
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| Investigator in Training | posts 2 |
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This is what I find confusing. Donna was under contract with Pilgrim when she was with GH and then she, Andy and Brian took the idea for GHI to the same production company. Would the contract she had with GHI be all that different then the one she had with GH?
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6:02 am November 15, 2009
| alicat
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| Lead Investigator | posts 1214 |
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Let me address several comments in the past few posts.
1. The Doctor said: "Curious that he never seems to mention Pilgrim – I don't think SyFy is involved in the details at the production end of things, although they certainly could give orders if they wanted to."
Doc, You are correct. Syfy is not involved in the details at the production end of things. They buy the product from Pilgrim who is solely responsible. It's really as simple as that. The leverage they hold is putting pressure on Pilgrim if Pilgrim wants to continue to sell their product to Syfy.
2. Oubliette said: "I think contracts come up every so often for renewal (remember when Kris W didn't appear at the last Halloween Live show due to contract negotiation?) and Jay and Grant got the best legal advice their money could buy."
Oubliette, I have always had a hard time believing that Kris W didn't appear on the Halloween Live show last year due to any contract negotiation. Those negotiations are generally handled in the off season. As I stated back then and still believe, I think Kris merely took time off to have her "surgery" which has now been confirmed. I just think at the time, it was awkwardly handled and was a convenient excuse used to cover Kris' personal decision because she probably did not wish it to be the subject of discussion. I really don't see any connection or reason it would have anything to do with Jason or Grant getting any legal advice. What would be the point? She either signs or she doesn't. That's between Kris and Pilgrim. Jason and Grant are producers of the show and, as such, are employees who are under Pilgrim contracts as well.
"In Donna's case, I don't think a contract really lies at the bottom of all this. It was her treatment by them IMO and when hers came up for renewal she said "No thanks"."
I'm not sure if you are referring to Pilgrim or J & G about her treatment. If she's speaking about her treatment by Pilgirm, I can't fault her but she hasn't really presented any proof of "mistreatment". And frankly, I haven't seen any evidence of that by J & G either. However, if she believed she was mistreated, she did absolutely the right thing. Why continue in that situation? If it's because she didn't think J & G stood up for her or give her a piece of the pie, I respectfully disagree. She was offered a contract pure and simple. If she didn't want to sign it, she didn't have to and obviously, in the end, she didn't re-sign which was the right choice for her. I am so tired of hearing people whine and complain about how innocent they were and that they were taken advantage of by others. People have to take responsibility for their own actions and stop blaming others. If you make a mistake for whatever reason, own up to it, get over it and move on. We all have a voice and two feet. Use them. Apparently Donna did and I applaud her for doing so. Ironic though that she's not offering any apologies for towing the company line when she states she knew what was happening behind the scenes. To me the bloom came off that rose pretty quickly.
3. Elphie said: "Would the contract she had with GHI be all that different then the one she had with GH?"
Elphie, simply put, they signed contracts with Pilgrim for a different show called GHI so it would not fall under the GH contract.
In general, there have always been plenty of lawyers out there just as there are as many doctors and most specialize in different areas of law and medicine. Pick up a telephone directory and look. It's always been that way and is nothing new. If I was specifically buying real estate, would I go to a general practice attorney? No. I would go to a lawyer who practices in real estate. Equate this with a doctor. If you had cancer would you merely treat with your family physician? No, you would see an oncologist. So, just as there are many doctors who specialize, the same holds true with lawyers. And yes, there are good doctors and lawyers and there are bad doctors and lawyers. It's up to you to do the research.
And yes, people are taken advantage of in life but trust me, it's amazing how quick they can find lawyers (who they decry) to defend them. Why are documents/contracts written in a supposedly difficult language? Because there are a lot of unscrupulous people who use every imaginable and some unimaginable actions which need to be addressed. If you are paying a lawyer to represent you, you would expect them to be able to address every and any possibility.
Maybe someone can now tell me why computer software is written in such difficult and complex language? Does that mean these programmers are all evil? I'm beginning to think so. 
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8:26 am November 15, 2009
| Nosfer
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From what I heard…and from what Stephen's transcript shows, the most damning statements are those by the Divas which are (in their own words) rumors.
Cuz the rumor is, now, is that there's a staging crew on the TAPS production, there, there, where they do nothing but stage the evidence that's going to be
Those rumors are now being taken as verified fact. Forget asking Donna to be more specific, I'd like some expounding on these rumors.
A rumor doesn't have to be true to be dangerous, it just has to be believed.
For a laugh (language is on par with what you hear in the full Divas interview, though) check out the "response" that is listed below the Moviedan video (the one by hipperz) It's hilarious, but he jumps right on as saying that it's now come out that there is a staging group etc. The people who believe everything TAPS say are bad enough, but the people who won't believe ANYTHING they say are no better and just as "out there"
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8:58 am November 15, 2009
| The Doctor
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| Lead Investigator | posts 488 |
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Nosfer said:
From what I heard…and from what Stephen's transcript shows, the most damning statements are those by the Divas which are (in their own words) rumors.
Cuz the rumor is, now, is that there's a staging crew on the TAPS production, there, there, where they do nothing but stage the evidence that's going to be
Those rumors are now being taken as verified fact.
Good point -
Perhaps that's what Jason is talking about – if there were a staging crew it would be hard to keep a lid on it.
The reason I've dismissed that idea long ago is that a "staging crew" is simply not needed for the so-called paranormal effects we have seen. Grant would not have needed a crew to move the lamp, the picture frame or pull his bedsheets.
If the Divas have something, let them produce it, but I suspect Jason will win fighting that battle, while deflecting attention from his "little buddies"
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8:59 am November 15, 2009
| alicat
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| Lead Investigator | posts 1214 |
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Nosfer,
When one's perspective can be altered by rumor stirred up on the internet by those that exhibit an axe to grind in order to get attention, all logical and skeptical thinking goes out the window.
After listening to the entire Diva "broadcast", I found it to be rumor ridden, biased, sad and, quite frankly, it never lived up to it's promises as we were led to believe. It was a true waste of time and totally lacking in substance. If anything, it gives me a stronger perspective as to why Jason and Grant tend to ignore all the ugliness. That being said, Jason and Grant are not without fault and also contribute on a totally different level to the entire mess.
And we wonder why the world is in the mess it's in?
EDIT: Doc, we posted about the same time. I agree with Nosfer and with you when you say:
"If the Divas have something, let them produce it, but I suspect Jason will win fighting that battle"
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9:10 am November 15, 2009
| Nosfer
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The Doctor said:
What was his response on the proven FLIR image fake again ?
Are you referring to Manson? It's been a while, but I believe we were called a bunch of idiots.
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9:14 am November 15, 2009
| Nosfer
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The Doctor said:
The reason I've dismissed that idea long ago is that a "staging crew" is simply not needed for the so-called paranormal effects we have seen. Grant would not have needed a crew to move the lamp, the picture frame or pull his bedsheets.
And then there's the old axiom that the level of difficulty in keeping something secret is directly proportional to the SQUARE of the number of people involved. I agree, you'd also think that if there were a crew devoted to this task, the events would be a bit better executed, too!
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