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12:46 pm
December 4, 2008
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Andy
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| Investigator | posts 101 |
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Excellent quote by Oubliette:
''Can they reclaim any credibility? Can they lure fans back who were faithful up until the Live Show? What can they do, if anything, to get back to the Season 1 group that seemed so sincere?''
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5:35 pm
December 4, 2008
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Grant
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Myself, I still DVR but don't ever want to watch the show anymore, and when I do, I go straight to the reveal. Even when I watch the reveal, though, all I can think of is FAKE. It's over for myself. I'm going to stop recording it and just catch what goes on here. It's pointless to watch for myself.
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2:45 am
December 5, 2008
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Andy
| | Liverpool | |
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Same….I hate bad acting anyway
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10:42 pm
December 5, 2008
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Stephen
| | San Jose, CA | |
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It would be great if all was Lost. I love that show. (drum hit) Sorry, folks, a little example of why I stay serious in print…
There are plenty of ways to recapture the lost credibility. They could bring on a skeptic– how about Benjamin Radford or Joe Nickell? Hell, bring on all of the Skeptologists, and do a second reveal.
They won't. I think they're stuck. They can't change the show without essentially admitting that there's a problem. The show is still very popular, and no one wants to alter a winning formula. The problem is, there's going to be increasing pressure, internal and external, to produce more and more spectacular "evidence". The Collar Tug will look comparatively innocent by the time they're done.
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Stephen the Friendly Skeptic
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2:26 am
December 6, 2008
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Andy
| | Liverpool | |
| Investigator | posts 101 |
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But even that went down hill IMHO after the end of the first season where they found the trap door. I was MAJOR pissed they didn't tell ya what was in it until the next season. Is Lost STILL up and running?
TAPS should do a skeptic one off show where you, Steve-o, get to run around all in black, Ninja style, cutting all the speaker wires and snapping Grant's strings….hahah…..I'd even sign up to PPV for that!! The reveal would rock!!!!
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9:46 pm
December 10, 2008
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Dedicated_Dad
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I literally think they're trying with the "reality check" episode they've been advertising (which I thought was supposed to air tonight??)
Personally, I think the show needs a very – perhaps even oppositionally – skeptical team member. Someone who could be considered credible by the folks on this and similar forums – someone who, if they said "I was there, Grant didn't fake this" would be believed.
I don't think it will happen. I think it's like the old Howard Stern thing – people who hated him listened for the same reason as people who loved him – they want to see what he'd say next. Those of us who are becoming more and more suspicious still watch, to try to catch them faking it. SciFi doesn't care if we believe or not, just so our @$$ is in the seat at 9PM on Wednesday evening.
I think it's possible – POSSIBLE – that they're "getting better" at catching stuff, that Grant's a "magnet" for the activity… Note I didn't say "PROBABLE" – just that it is POSSIBLE. To me, being a skeptical viewer means I don't have any pre-conceived notions, that I haven't drank anyone's kool-aid, that I'm not pre-convinced that they are – or are NOT – either faking or being 100% honest.
I think that many of the criticisms of the show are valid, and I hope they'll "clean up" their act a bit. Personally, I find the "debunking" they've managed (such as the magnetic silverware, the unmade bed, etc) just as interesting as the "evidence" they've gathered. I think the show would actually appeal to a wider audience — ESPECIALLY the SciFi "core demographic" if they were more "scientific" in their approach to things, but it is going to be an uphill battle to convince the network to mess with it at all and risk losing any of their amazing ratings… I just don't think they'll be up to the gamble.
OTOH, this may be a golden opportunity for another group to compete. Has anyone approached any producer about making a similar show with much more rigid standards and including at least one hard-core skeptic? I think there's a great chance of such a show – properly done – drawing a larger audience than GH, especially if it were still as exciting…
DD
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7:43 am
December 11, 2008
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Wes
| | Spaulding Inn, Room 38 | |
| Investigator | posts 142 |
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DD-
Check the thread about the proposed "Skeptologists" TV show in the forum — and then hope it comes to pass.
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"The truth shall bear all light."
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7:53 am
December 11, 2008
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Haephiteus
| | Taylor, MI | |
| Investigator | posts 54 |
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Dedicated Dad
I would like to comment about your statement – (possible that they are "getting better" at catching stuff)
My thoughts
These guys are opening doors that were never opened. People are trusting them to come into places that were once barred to a ghost hunter. Famous places that have been noted to be haunted for years. And as for Grant being a "magnet" to the paranormal….yes this is possible. My cousin and my daughter seem to be magnets for this stuff. So I think we need to keep an open mind to these "possibilities".
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You are a god among insects. Never let anyone tell you different. ~Magneto
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12:19 pm
December 11, 2008
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T.A.Sharps
| | Iowa | |
| Investigator | posts 60 |
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Maybe if they invited that guy who posted that nasty Youtube video about how fake GH is now, or some from this forum. Maybe they could act as the watch dogs.
Honestly though, trust is a hard thing to earn back. Most of us here were dupped by a TV show, failing to realize it is a TV show, not even a documentary. Their bread and butter is ratings, I'm sure it would of been a hard sell to the producers to keep the show going if no one ever finds anything.
btw, I agree with the bad acting, especially with Grant. His responses to things that happen are awkward and unnatrual a lot. Especially with the jaket tug when he was tredding water to sell that pile.
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" Your reality Sir is lies and balderdash and I am delighted to say I have no grasp of it whatsoever!"
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1:57 pm
December 11, 2008
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Dedicated_Dad
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Wes said:
DD-
Check the thread about the proposed "Skeptologists" TV show in the forum — and then hope it comes to pass.
I would LOVE to check it out, but I can't find it. Can you direct me to it?
Thanks!
DD
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8:33 am
December 17, 2008
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Steelguy
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Andy said:
Excellent quote by Oubliette:
''Can they reclaim any credibility? Can they lure fans back who were faithful up until the Live Show? What can they do, if anything, to get back to the Season 1 group that seemed so sincere?''
This used to be my favorite show and looked forward to every Weds. After watching the Halloween show and Grant with that obvious stunt with the collar I lost all interest in the show. I had read alot of the accusations against Grant on previous shows, but I just did not believe he would be part of any type of hoax. I did believe Jason would probably do anything, I have no respect for him at all. On the TV and radio show I became tired of Jason and his giant ego.
This silly Roto Rooter I am a plumber by day crap that they continue to play out has worn thin also with me. I am sure both these guys started out with good intentions but along the way they fell in love with the fame and money and it became obvious that Jasons ego was out of control. The sad part is Grant seemed like a good guy, and to see him fake that collar pull and then defend it like it was a ghostly experience was just unbelievable.
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9:06 am
December 17, 2008
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Wes
| | Spaulding Inn, Room 38 | |
| Investigator | posts 142 |
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"The truth shall bear all light."
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8:59 pm
January 15, 2009
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yeah right
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Dedicated_Dad said:
I literally think they're trying with the "reality check" episode they've been advertising (which I thought was supposed to air tonight??)
Personally, I think the show needs a very – perhaps even oppositionally – skeptical team member. Someone who could be considered credible by the folks on this and similar forums – someone who, if they said "I was there, Grant didn't fake this" would be believed.
I don't think it will happen. I think it's like the old Howard Stern thing – people who hated him listened for the same reason as people who loved him – they want to see what he'd say next. Those of us who are becoming more and more suspicious still watch, to try to catch them faking it. SciFi doesn't care if we believe or not, just so our @$$ is in the seat at 9PM on Wednesday evening.
I think it's possible – POSSIBLE – that they're "getting better" at catching stuff, that Grant's a "magnet" for the activity… Note I didn't say "PROBABLE" – just that it is POSSIBLE. To me, being a skeptical viewer means I don't have any pre-conceived notions, that I haven't drank anyone's kool-aid, that I'm not pre-convinced that they are – or are NOT – either faking or being 100% honest.
I think that many of the criticisms of the show are valid, and I hope they'll "clean up" their act a bit. Personally, I find the "debunking" they've managed (such as the magnetic silverware, the unmade bed, etc) just as interesting as the "evidence" they've gathered. I think the show would actually appeal to a wider audience — ESPECIALLY the SciFi "core demographic" if they were more "scientific" in their approach to things, but it is going to be an uphill battle to convince the network to mess with it at all and risk losing any of their amazing ratings… I just don't think they'll be up to the gamble.
OTOH, this may be a golden opportunity for another group to compete. Has anyone approached any producer about making a similar show with much more rigid standards and including at least one hard-core skeptic? I think there's a great chance of such a show – properly done – drawing a larger audience than GH, especially if it were still as exciting…
DD
I'm done with them – what bothered me is not so much they have a show with obvious fake and inflated "evidence" on teh SC-Fi channel (with an emphasis on FI), but that they appear at seminars with paying fans and represent themselves as true debunkers. They are preying on fans and are the worst kind of charlatans, charging money to people they have entrusted. Take a lok at a you tube video where they are appearing at a seminar – disgusting.
Also I have been to the Moss Beach Distellery many times. It's a nice restaraunt with a great view and a story, anyone above teh age of three knows that they hide little tricks as part of this story. In fact long before TAPS "debunked" this restaraunt anyone working there would tell you about the fun little gimmicks. And believe me, as I said there so obvious that a child knows that they are fake. Not intended to fool people but be a story.
Very disappointing that these people are taking money from people at seminars, stick to the sci-fi channel and be fictional don't defraud.
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1:20 pm
January 16, 2009
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T.A.Sharps
| | Iowa | |
| Investigator | posts 60 |
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I don't know how people can be so emotional about this, it is a TV show.
When I saw collargate and then found this sight, I felt pretty duped, but it is my own fault for believing a TV show.
I don't hate J and G and their entire family line for it, if I had the chance to do what they do, travel all over the place and get piad just to ghost hunt, I would definetly do it. The show is really the perfect formula for a "horror movie". No horror movie has ever made me a "believer" before. I don't know, maybe some people believed more than me.
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" Your reality Sir is lies and balderdash and I am delighted to say I have no grasp of it whatsoever!"
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2:29 am
January 31, 2009
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Revenant
| | Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage" | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1393 |
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Hello and welcome to my first post.
Now…the three interesting questions:
CAN THEY RECLAIM ANY CREDITIBILTY?
No. It is a question of ethics and morality. An ethical man thinks he should not cheat on his wife. A moral man does not cheat on his wife. Big difference. There is no going back.
CAN THEY LURE FANS BACK WHO WERE FAITHFUL UP UNTIL THE LAST SHOW?
Absolutely. I am a skeptic. Not a hardcore, screaming and ranting skeptic. Just a guy with a decent knowledge of science and a strong hankerin’ for solid evidence. I have watched the show from the beginning and will continue to. Why? First, and very “real world”…it wins the time slot. Nothing else is really on. Secondly, I consider it decent entertainment. The “tone” of the show has changed, yet, to me at least, it is still entertaining.
WHAT CAN THEY DO, IF ANYTHING, TO GET BACK TO THE SEASON 1 GROUP THAT SEEMED SO SINCERE?
This is a great question. I believe what originally drew me to the show was their sincerity. I may not believe what they do, but I did appreciate the earnest effort. Just a bunch of good people who are really into something and want to share their journey. Cool, nothing wrong with that. Throw in power, pressure, fame and fortune…and things change.
But…to make the show better, this is what I would do. I would sit them down and tell them that they aren’t in competition with anyone else. Forget about Ghost Adventures (which actually should be renamed to “Shenanigans!”) or any other show. They have cornered the “ghostly market” so there’s no reason to…”embellish” findings. I would be staring at Grant through most of this talk and tugging at my collar and pulling a lamp towards me by the cord.
Next, I would tell the team to stand up to Pilgrim and tell them not to “help” make their show more interesting like messing about with FLIR time stamps and putting sheets up in prisons. With any team, there needs to be trust. If someone is doing something questionable behind your back, call them out and deal with it.
Lastly, I would ask the team one simple question. It “was” the basis for the entire show. “What are you here for?” If it’s for ratings and fame, then mission accomplished. If it’s to get away from snaking someone’s toilet five days a week…I “completely” understand that. But, if the answer is to find out a couple of new things about the paranormal and actually find some evidence that will make people like me say “Hmmmm…can’t easily explain that one.” Then you truly have the right answer. So it’s time to pull up those boot straps, tighten those hard hats with Integrity stamped on them and go find your ghosts. And if not, down the spiral you go…
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"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
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1:20 pm
January 31, 2009
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Stephen
| | San Jose, CA | |
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Welcome Revenant! I think you make some good points, although it's hard to tell if Ghost Hunters was honest from the beginning. (Which is a separate question from whether TAPS/RIPS was honest from its beginning.) The Race Rock incident was early first season, and I regard it as highly suspicious.
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Stephen the Friendly Skeptic
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1:04 am
February 1, 2009
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Revenant
| | Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage" | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1393 |
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Stephen said:
Welcome Revenant! I think you make some good points, although it's hard to tell if Ghost Hunters was honest from the beginning. (Which is a separate question from whether TAPS/RIPS was honest from its beginning.) The Race Rock incident was early first season, and I regard it as highly suspicious.
Thank you for welcoming me. I like the site very much and am impressed by the quality of posts here in the forum. Hopefully I can add a little something…doubtful, yet stranger things have happened…
For the record, I never said that they were "honest" from the beginning. The Race Rock incident that you mentioned is excellent evidence of this. Perhaps I used the word "sincerity" in error. I do believe that they are good guys. I loved the fact that a couple of "everyday Joe's," a couple of plumbers got a tv show to find evidence of ghosts. They would try hard at what they were doing and I could appreciate that. I believe that they can get back to that. However…
Yet I feel that the question of "Was GH honest from the beginning?" is a totally different question from the ones that I answered. For that question, I would simply answer "As a skeptic…no, and how could it be?"
I watch Mind Freak with Chris Angel. I like the show. No clue how he does most of the stuff. But just because I can't explain it, it doesn't mean that I can conclude that magic is real. Besides that, Angel never claims that it is real. It's for entertainment purposes and I can appreciate it.
Ghost Hunters is different. They claim that ghosts and whatever else that entails are real. And they're hunting down the proof to show to the world. Since there is absolutely no scientific evidence to support the claim that ghosts are real, the basis of the show is the exact opposite of "honest." It cannot be anything but dishonest.
But…love the show. Pretty sure I've seen every one. I watch because it's entertaining. I watch "just because" of things like the Race Rock incident and Collargate. I love yelling out during the show "Grant threw that hanger…look at the angle of the flight pattern!" That's just plain fun.
(Hmmm, not sure if I "hi-jacked" this thread by answering a question that wasn't in the original post. Sorry about that. If so, just delete the post. No harm, no foul.)
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"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
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12:03 pm
February 1, 2009
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TheLunatikFringe
| | Edge Of Insanity | |
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Ya know, it's funny, I was a huge fan of the show and actually still am I guess. I knew stuff was fabricated, but didn't know others saw the same thing I did. The whole chair thing when it happened just looked too mechanical to me…if that makes sense, but then, I really never paid that much attention to stuff. Then of course, as the previous poster mentioned, the collargate incident (lol). The other episode I took umbrage with involved a place in N. Cal that had a mechanical device installed in the restroom mirror showing a face. Now, I've been there and EVERYONE knows about the goofy tricks used to perpetuate the ghost thing…it isn't a mystery and the employees there even admit to the trickery. That bothered me, TAPS going into the investigation and making it appear as if they DISCOVERED the 'fraud'.
IMHO, people are going to continue watching GH because it's entertaining. If you're a zipperhead and take everything you see as the gospel, then you're most likely in possession of a pyche that is a little left of center anyway. It doesn't matter what happens, what is said, what is shown, what is proved. The typical viewer is balled up on the couch, a warm throw gathered around them, lights dimmed and they're escaping the daily routine, watching a bunch of people selling entertainment with gizmos in hand. The normal putz out there isn't going to find a site like this, they're not expecting any trickery. As far as they're concerned, everything is above board and real. The producers and cast of GH are counting on that and let's be honest here, that's what they're getting from the general television viewing audience.
Everything they use in their 'scientific' approach to paranormal investigations can be corrupted. From the video to the voice recorders. It's an edited show. You can enhance video, voice recordings….everything can be altered with the click of a mouse these days. GH and Pilgrim have access to stuff most of us can only dream of (the live show was a complete meltdown). Even the experts some of these programs use to evaluate findings are going to report what the producers want them to report, they're paid.
My only suggestion for the producers of GH is to take Grant aside and teach that goob some slight of hand techniques.
This whole paranormal thing we're experiencing on cable these days is there because it sparks the imagination of people and gets folks to tune in. The whole GH,GHI, MH, GA, Monster Quest and that other one with that Josh guy is just entertainment. I challenge anyone to show anything that these programs have discovered. They're purely there to entertain us. How many of us have seen footage of 'ghosts' when it was clearly a bug skittering actoss the lens of a camera, dust floating, animals going about their business on a dark forest path? People will believe anything. I've watched some of these programs and even KNOWING it was bogus, still got a chill while watching it. It's a normal response…and it's fun.
Now, I imagine if you're a serious paranormal researcher with a heaping helping of skepticism, this kind of program just chafes your hide, but for the rest of us…honestly, it would be a blast to go out with these guys and experience that inner fear/ghost thing that we all possess, knowing that the noise we just heard can be heard ANYTIME & ANYWHERE, regardless of a purported haunting location. Buildings creak, animal vocalizations can sound like the spoken word, critters can inhabit old buildings making it sound as if the Donner party has moved in….I could refuse to eat for a day and my stomach would sound like a hellhound from the bowels of hell.
I hope GH continues, I hope Grant recieves some magic training and I hope Jason rears up and slaps Grant someday, that would be good entertainment. Besides, if the show didn't continue, where else would people like us go to dissect tainted evidence; can't do it on the TAPS site, they get all pissy.
As far as Grant and Jason not owning up to the fabrications….eh…that's show business.
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