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2:13 pm April 14, 2009
| daytripper
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| Investigator in Training | posts 4 |
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I've really enjoyed reading this thread, and agree with what everyone has said. At this point, I wouldn't believe any alleged evidence put forth by GH. But as for ghost hunting in general, it just seems to me that if spirits dwelt among us, by now – in 2009 – there ought to have been some sort of irrefutable evidence that we can point to. What would really makes ghosts so damned elusive? As it has been noted, if they can knock on walls or turn on flashlights (and throw hangers) then there's no reason to think they couldn't do anything we asked. If I could meet a TAPS member, my main question would be: why, out of thousands and thousands of hours of video footage taped over the course of so many years, why don't you have a frame of an actual BODY – not a ghost or a FLIR image or a shadow – but an actual ghost in action?? I can't figure that out.
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2:21 pm April 14, 2009
| Bobarino
| | Valencia, CA | |
| Investigator | posts 181 |
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Well, I have been thinking about this, and i know I am just repeating what was already said, but I don't think there is a completely "Tamper Proof" experiment. The thing is, they may actually catch something REAL one day, and we will never believe it because they have faked so much in the past.
But one idea popped into my head. I was just thinking that it would take something drastic for us to believe it wasn't faked. The only thing I was thinking was to put a sharp knife like a steak or butcher knife on a table and have an investigator sit there. Have the room closed and sealed of from other investigators. Have a 3rd party verify that it is free of gimmicks and have cameras in each corner (with time stamps of course). They cam be different types of cameras as well…infra-red, full spectrum, etc.
Then, ask the paranormal entity to stab the investigator. Doesn't HAVE to kill the investigator, but serious harm. Maybe cut off a finger or other body part? Carve a new tattoo for them?
If I saw that I would be very impressed.
I know they wouldn't do this. I wouldn't do it either really, but that would be good evidence! 
Now you can rip my idea to shreads too 
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I've found that being AWESOME is a full time job…
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2:53 pm April 14, 2009
| Learjet
| | Australia | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1122 |
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I'm afraid after GH I wouldn't trust anything I saw on TV now either. If we're looking for evidence of ghosts it seems we have to go it alone. Some of us have had a strong personal experience, but that's no good as evidence to anyone else but the person experiencing it.
I know a trustworthy ghost hunting team that have been physically assaulted by something unseen. Great evidence for them, still no good for the rest of us though.
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3:29 pm April 14, 2009
| Revenant
| | Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage" | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1393 |
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Bobarino said:
But one idea popped into my head. I was just thinking that it would take something drastic for us to believe it wasn't faked. The only thing I was thinking was to put a sharp knife like a steak or butcher knife on a table and have an investigator sit there. Have the room closed and sealed of from other investigators. Have a 3rd party verify that it is free of gimmicks and have cameras in each corner (with time stamps of course). They cam be different types of cameras as well…infra-red, full spectrum, etc.
Then, ask the paranormal entity to stab the investigator. Doesn't HAVE to kill the investigator, but serious harm. Maybe cut off a finger or other body part? Carve a new tattoo for them?
Ok…wow…
Note to self: Never, under any circumstances, go ghost-hunting with Bobarino. "Carve a new tattoo"…wow! 
Although I, myself, would not perform this experiment, I do understand the sentiment. Somewhere, something extraordinary is going to have to come down the pipeline in order for many of us to consider it paranormal.
I wouldn't necessarily count out the subtle things; movement in water or powder would be a head-scratcher. I would love to review that sort of evidence. But yes, like many others, I would prefer something big. But at this point, I'll take what I can get. 
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"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
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6:43 pm April 14, 2009
| Nosfer
| | Rotaredom | |
| Moderator
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I would love to review that sort of evidence.
Can you just imagine being able to glom onto the complete and unedited footage etc recorded during an investigation!
Full disclosure such as that would be the first step for any show that wants to be taken seriously…seconding Revenant's suggestion made for "Paranormal Cops"
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12:52 pm April 15, 2009
| daytripper
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| Investigator in Training | posts 4 |
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This is kind off the subject I guess, but does anyone else ever wonder if maybe someday, years from now, Jason or Grant will come clean? I'm guessing Jason would be more likely based on his obvious discomfort with Grant's "collargate" shenanigans. Or maybe the stress and fame of the show will ultimately bring down their marriages (not that I'm wishing that on them!) and one of the ex-wives will write a tell-all book and make millions exposing the scammers. 
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1:47 pm April 15, 2009
| Revenant
| | Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage" | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1393 |
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Do I think Jason or Grant will come clean? No. However, I do not view them as "scammers" either.
Do I question their methods? Almost every show. Do I highly suspect some form of "trickeration (one of my favorite words from college football)" in a few particular episodes? Yes. Can I prove it without a shadow of doubt? Nope. Look at the whole "Collargate" disaster. Even with FormerGHFan's excellent videos and Oubliette's work on it…can I take it to court and win? Coin toss at best.
Yet more importantly, there's simply no financial reason to disclose anything. They can do appearances and write books for years and years. Let an ex-wife or a close friend write a tell-all book. In the end, I'm afraid, it would serve no purpose. The believers would still believe and consider the book a bunch of lies. Skeptics would only add the book to their arsenal in which to question the evidence put forth by ghost hunters. Nothing would really change.
Oh, and while I'm here…in another post of yours, Daytripper, you said "there ought to have been some sort of irrefutable evidence that we can point to." I've been thinking about that sentence. One of my fears is that perhaps we already have and dismissed it. The fault, in that instance, would fall upon everyone. These TV shows are simply dreadful when it comes to gathering evidence. Perhaps even worse when reviewing it. Due to the fact that they don't release evidence to the public, we're stuck scrounging about with whatever we can find. That puts us, the fans, in a very defensive posture and ready to lash out against almost anything and everything. It's a vicious cycle. Unless that cycle is broken, none of us…ghost hunters, believers, skeptics, and the average joe…are going to come to any conclusive answers pertaining to the paranormal.
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"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
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6:42 pm April 15, 2009
| Nosfer
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| Moderator
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Hannah said:
Get Nosfer, Revenant, Stephen & Learjet guest spots on GH.
Hmm, how about sprinkling baby powder on the floor and asking the entites to walk through it. Its cheap, and with one of the above guys to witness it. I will stand back now while the experts rip this suggestion to shreds, but it was fun taking a stab at it.
WOW, they're using your suggestion in the Attic already (S05E06.5)!!! Except that I must have missed the call to come down and provide oversight. I hope one of you others was contacted and was able to make it down there!
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7:20 pm April 15, 2009
| Hannah
| | Texas | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 361 |
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I need an attorney; I am going to sue!!!!!
Maybe they are reading this forum. 
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7:22 pm April 15, 2009
| Nosfer
| | Rotaredom | |
| Moderator
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Funny how J describes this as an "old trick" that he and G used to use…yet I don't think I've ever seen them do this in all the years this show has been going on!
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Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.
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7:42 pm April 15, 2009
| Hannah
| | Texas | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 361 |
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I don't recall seeing them do it either.
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11:47 pm April 15, 2009
| Revenant
| | Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage" | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1393 |
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Nosfer said:
Funny how J describes this as an "old trick" that he and G used to use…yet I don't think I've ever seen them do this in all the years this show has been going on!
Agreed. I never seen them use it either. So a gold star goes to Hannah! Congratulations! However…
Nosfer, under the Titanic Terror thread, said "Oh…and footprints in flour without continuous camera coverage or one of us down there monitoring doesn't impress me."
Absolutely agree. The entire experiment is compromised without the continuous camera to verify that no one either intentionally or accidently walked through the flour. I also didn't like the fact that the prints led to the entrance of the attic.
Man…so close yet so far. They put a camera on everything but not on the flour? Seriously? I just don't get their methodology…
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"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
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8:07 am April 16, 2009
| alicat
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| Lead Investigator | posts 1215 |
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@ Revenant: "Man…so close yet so far. They put a camera on everything but not on the flour? Seriously? I just don't get their methodology…"
I do. It's a shell game and they don't want you to see what's happening. Their methodolgy is not to get caught doing it.
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