The Forum [is where Ancient Roman skeptics hang out.]

Current User: Guest Login Register
Please consider registering


Lost Your Password?

S02E22: Unfaithful Spirit: Germany

Reply to Post
UserPost

4:34 pm
January 21, 2011


Nosfer

Rotaredom

Moderator

posts 2956

CCD is just the sensor type (very simplified) in the camera.  It really could be considered a "regular" camera just as the other major type of sensor (the CMOS) could also be called "regular"  Think of Ford vs Chevy.  How the pixels are converted to voltage is done differently and there are benefits/drawbacks but both are commonly used in cameras.

I was dismayed at how short a shot we got of that sequence.  I had to go back over it several times just to get an idea of the scene "real time"  Yes I could pause it, but I wanted to see if there were other artifacts that appeared, but with a clip that lasts a second or two, it doesn't really mean much if you only see those two blips.  Another one for the "interesting but inconclusive pile"  Is anyone working on that sign?

I still think the "Lead" part of Bill's title just is relative to FoF…of the "scientists" there, he's the best and thus the "Lead"…oh my that is a scary thought!  I still wonder if "Lead" is pronounced "Led", referring to Pb!

Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.

5:17 pm
January 21, 2011


Nosfer

Rotaredom

Moderator

posts 2956

I may be matrixing here, but if you look especially at the second clip where they replay the light blinks in the dining room, you can see a darker shape on the wall.  I say shape to mean that there is an irregular (seemingly moving) darker patch that appears on the far wall to the right of the blinks.  Could that be a weak shadow being cast into the room? 6:34-6:35 in the video Rev posted.

Listen to what Barry says.  "We believe they are energy forms."  Well, yes, they are.  But not all energy is paranormal.  Energy form could just be light.  So, he doesn't really "lie" but he does really mislead.

I still can't tell because of the darkness but I can't really see anything that would be a reflector where those lights appear so a burst on the sensor itself is quite possible.  Who knows, maybe at some time they aimed the camera wrong at their laser grid and exposed the sensor to a laser burst, too.  Usually not a good thing to do.

Would be nice to see a longer length of footage and see if it ever recurs.  The way they fade, and at different rates does make me lean toward a burst and fade on the sensor, especially since they look like they are in a "close to the camera" 2D plane.  I wonder if they have proper converters for their power plugs lol

Oh, the light in the wine cellar.  I really like their analysis of that.  They show us a "lighted" image that does NOT include the area where the flash takes place.  I'm not sure what they were trying to prove there except to try to say that it wasn't those two lights down near the floor which I'm pretty sure we all knew, anyway.  It's like they were trying to make it look like they had done some heavy analysis and recreation but in fact all they did was still show the DARKENED footage of another "blip"  Another one for the pile.

Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.

6:46 pm
January 21, 2011


Learjet

Australia

Lead Investigator

posts 1122

For reasons that I don't understand, when my camera flashes hot pixels, it often does them in pairs, like here on GHI. Maybe it's the way they are connected in the CCD array. 

My idea is not really testable sitting here in the chair. I'd have to get hold of GHI's cameras and run them with the lens cap on, like I do with mine.

OD'd on EMF

7:17 pm
January 21, 2011


Nosfer

Rotaredom

Moderator

posts 2956

Since the CCD doesn't do per-pixel conversion of charge to voltage it could be something in the path…although if part of that has failed or is where the glitch is occurring I'd think the number of pixels  affected would be more than just two.  How far apart are yours?  Is there a pattern to their location?  Is it the same pairs?

You know, I don't know if we've ever seen them forget to take the lens cap off yet lol  I don't deal with camcorders much, but I suppose in software there would be a way to do the equivalent of a dustoff-reference image to apply to the video if it were hot or stuck pixels.  I've used that on my Nikon for dust when I didn't have any cleaning gear handy.  But with dust on the sensor it's always there as opposed to an intermittent charge burst.

Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.

9:03 pm
January 21, 2011


Leslie

Investigator

posts 157

Why is it that whenever I don't watch an episode something seems to happen that is worth discussing? I tuned in when Susan (? is that her name?) was acting was acting all stupid and "I feel..bla bla bla", and I got disgusted and tuned right back out! I did watch the clip Rev linked on youtube, and the first impression I got was laser pointer. Although, that may be primarily due to the fact that one of the younger beings in my house has one and has been annoying me with it. Otherwise, I tend to lean towards the "wonky camera" idea.

Oo..Fringe is on…gotta go!

3:42 am
January 22, 2011


Revenant

Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage"

Lead Investigator

posts 1393

Nosfer said:

Listen to what Barry says.  "We believe they are energy forms."  Well, yes, they are.  But not all energy is paranormal.  Energy form could just be light.  So, he doesn't really "lie" but he does really mislead.


 

 

Technically…no form of energy has been proven to be paranormal.  Laugh  Just sayin'…

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to explain the CCD thing.  Once that aspect was brought up, yes…I was reminded of what Barry had said about "energy forms."  I found it quite odd.  Learjet was quite right.  They go from flashes of light to paranormal in seconds flat.  Apparently no discussion on any "wonkiness (I hope I just made up a new word there…)" of the camera or possible glare, pocket flashlights, laser pointers, or anything else.  Just flashes of light…energy forms…GHOSTS (the unspoken conclusion)!!!

And in other news…(which I forgot to mention):

Did anyone else find it odd that Jason did a couple of ad's for Turbo-Tax without Grant?  I'm not saying that it's a big deal…just saying that I've never seen them apart.  And…the first time that I do, it's on a couple of national TV ad's.  Just kind of made me laugh…

"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer

10:31 am
January 22, 2011


Nosfer

Rotaredom

Moderator

posts 2956

True!  I should have worded it: "Just because it's energy doesn't mean it's paranormal" Laugh

What I found odd about the Turbo Tax commercial was that he seemed to be using some head-attached device which is more advanced than we've seen them use in any of the actual shows!

Sure would be nice to see the full set of footage from both cameras (have I said that before?) to see if there's any repeating of that light.  This reminded me of incidents a long time ago (probably 25 years ago, yet still in this galaxy) with a certain VCR I had that was apparently building up a charge on the recording head and which would eventually discharge.  When it did, you'd get a bright flash at that point in whatever you were recording or playing.  If you were recording, it would imprint on the VHS tape somewhat similar to what we were seeing in this episode and you could see it in playback.

Though I considered it to be an ELP, I don't recall at that time having any particular urge to start asking questions into the general thin air such as "Was that you?  Can you give me another sign of your presence?"

I think Wonkiness is perfectly acceptable.  As long as we don't use "Wonka" (or, with apologies to Fozzie: "Wokka") it qualifies as a new word Laugh  In fact, I think even "Wokka" qualifies as long as we don't double its utterance.

Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.

8:09 pm
January 22, 2011


Learjet

Australia

Lead Investigator

posts 1122

I'll see if I can find my video of flashing pixels if it hasn't been lost in the last computer upgrade.

OD'd on EMF

4:32 am
January 23, 2011


Learjet

Australia

Lead Investigator

posts 1122

Okay found a couple of videos. They are time lapse videos so the hot pixel only flashes on the screen for 1/25th of a second at frame 446 or at 18 seconds. In real time they were on the screen for 2 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..vzU4hpm0Is Don't know why this didn't upload at 720p. There's a lot of compression loss in this Utube vid.

Here's  a still frame of the flashers. There are other hot pixels in this video, but these are the ones that briefly flash on.

http://img831.imageshack.us/i/…..xel1j.jpg/

I have another all night video where I get about 6 of these hot pixel flashes, all in a different position and different pixels. If you want to torture yourselves with it I'll upload it. There's actually 35 satellites to be seen in it.

I think they prove a point though, and that is CCD/CMOS pixels go hot briefly for whatever non-paranormal reason. This "we don't know what it is so it's paranormal" rubbish annoys me almost as much as the K-II lol.

OD'd on EMF

11:11 am
January 23, 2011


Nosfer

Rotaredom

Moderator

posts 2956

Thanks Learjet.  I had to go back and forth a few times and reference the still but you can see it even at 1/25th second.  With a different type of background (one that didn't look like a bunch of stuck pixels already, ie STARS lol) it would be a lot more obvious and easily detectable.  Had the background been, say, a dining room or something like that in the dark… Do you recall offhand how warm/cold it was that night?  Sounds like you were shooting real-time and just sped up the result in post?

Those hot ones get to be problems the longer the exposure and some cameras will even do a double shot on long exposures to compare the two, map out, and correct the hot pixels.  Obviously this works a lot better with stills than video, though! 

Since the hotness is a leakage of the charge, the problem I had with that VCR head that I mentioned above is pretty much a similar situation.  Instead of a hot pixel, it was a hot head.  Confused

Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.

12:29 pm
January 23, 2011


Verklagekasper

Investigator in Training

posts 25

Susan had a racing heart, sweaty palms, dizziness, trempling, fear of dying, and fear of losing control (being dragged into a "trance"). Those are common symptoms of a panic attack. Such attacks come out of nowhere, and many people suffer from them. Panic attacks can be treated very well. There's nothing paranormal going on there, she should seek help.

12:39 pm
January 23, 2011


Nosfer

Rotaredom

Moderator

posts 2956

Post edited 12:40 pm – January 23, 2011 by Nosfer


Susan ALLEDGEDLY had a racing heart, sweaty palms, dizziness, trempling, fear of dying, and fear of losing control (being dragged into a "trance").

Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.

6:55 pm
January 24, 2011


Revenant

Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage"

Lead Investigator

posts 1393

Verklagekasper said:

Susan had a racing heart, sweaty palms, dizziness, trempling, fear of dying, and fear of losing control (being dragged into a "trance"). Those are common symptoms of a panic attack. Such attacks come out of nowhere, and many people suffer from them. Panic attacks can be treated very well. There's nothing paranormal going on there, she should seek help.


 

 

As Nosfer pointed out…allegedly…but sure, one of the possibilities.  Others might include jet lag, a publicly unknown medical condition, and too much wienerschnitzel and Paulaner beer.

An over-active imagination should be mentioned as well.  See every single "personal experience" that Joe Chin reports as an example.

Then, of course…is the ugly one…it is intenationally fake.  A word or so about that one…

Is "It's Fake!" the battle-cry of many objective people?  Maybe.  Maybe too often though without proof.  Yet, the dynamics of this particular event are quite interesting.  Why?  Because of several motivating factors…

The show just let go of half their staff and the numbers are in a free-fall.  Spicing things up is good for everyone involved.  Then there is the competitive factor.  Paul fell on the ground for mysterious reasons…never counting out "personal loss of energy (whatever that means)."  Susan doesn't like when someone takes her spotlight.  We've seen this from GHA.  Could her "condition" have been a "hey…look at me again" type of thing?  Maybe.

Then there's the personal aspect.  Susan, no matter what your opinion of her is, is smart.  We also saw this on GHA.  Remember her direct competition with the other psychic/sensitive/medium person?  She got whacked and Susan instantly changed her tune and her game-plan.  It brought her victory.  Now…she's on GHI.  Say what you will about the current "ghost craze" but profit can be had by those who can create a name for themselves.  By producing "paranormal/psychic" connections on television for the masses of believers to "ooo and ahh" over, she creates a market for herself down the road.  I'm talking about conventions and books here.  It makes finicial sense.  You're on borrowed time with GHI.  It will be cancelled relatively soon.  Make your mark now, cash in later.  This is the smart play.  This would be a logical game plan.  And, like I said…Susan is smart.

Hmmm…still buying the panic attack?  I'm starting to have my doubts…

"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer

10:08 pm
January 24, 2011


Axel Olrik

Investigator

posts 184

Post edited 10:54 pm – January 24, 2011 by Axel Olrik


I thought the most charitable interpretation of Paul's fall and Susan's palpitations was "contagious hysteria". See my link above.

However, seriously, I do think that it was really just pure hokum…in both senses:

 
 

1. Something apparently impressive or legitimate but actually untrue or insincere; nonsense.
2. A stock technique for eliciting a desired response from an audience.

10:40 pm
January 24, 2011


Nosfer

Rotaredom

Moderator

posts 2956

Revenant said:

Then, of course…is the ugly one…it is intenationally fake.  A word or so about that one…

Is "It's Fake!" the battle-cry of many objective people?  Maybe.  Maybe too often though without proof.  Yet, the dynamics of this particular event are quite interesting.  Why?  Because of several motivating factors…


 

Well we also have Barry saying that they recorded her heartbeat getting more intense or words to that effect.  We know darned well that if they had anything in the way of evidence they would have laid that out for the world to see faster than C in Einstein's equation.

Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.

10:52 pm
January 24, 2011


Learjet

Australia

Lead Investigator

posts 1122

Didn't Paul want a spirit to use his energy? He just planted a suggestion in his own mind, a type of self hypnosis. He just set himself up to collapse. 

In a similar fashion just before Susan goes wonky, Barry says to the spirit, "why don't you step in here, in this setting with us". He just planted another suggestion and I believe this time Susan picked it up.

My opinion is I don't think this is fake, rather they are victims of their own suggestion. A hypnosis technique that some are susceptible to. 

I sometimes use autosuggestion to give myself a boost in energy when I really need it. And of course we've all seen what stage hypnotists can do.

To me these people on GHI appear to be highly suggestible.

 

OD'd on EMF

3:55 am
January 25, 2011


Revenant

Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage"

Lead Investigator

posts 1393

Learjet said:

I think they prove a point though, and that is CCD/CMOS pixels go hot briefly for whatever non-paranormal reason. This "we don't know what it is so it's paranormal" rubbish annoys me almost as much as the K-II lol.


 

 

Thanks to you and Nosfer on all the links and information.  I'm glad I brought this up.  It's funny that you brought up "we don't know what it is so it's paranormal."  I didn't know what it was so I asked.  Laugh  That's probably why a good team would consist of people of different disciplines along with different technological backgrounds as well.  And when I say "disciplines"…I'm referring to science.  And when I say "technological backgrounds"…that would go beyond being able to turn a FLIR device on and point it at junk.  Laugh

Learjet said: "In a similar fashion just before Susan goes wonky, Barry says to the spirit, "why don't you step in here, in this setting with us". He just planted another suggestion and I believe this time Susan picked it up."

Is it just me or when Barry does that sort of thing…he loses every ounce of credibility and he should put on his "Ghost Tours International" hat on.  There's a certain showmanship type thing going on.  There also seems to be a slight shift towards straight belief…ala "Most Haunted."  And you guys thought the loss of Robb wouldn't change anything…. Laugh

So did Barry make things…easier…for Susan to "go wonky?"  Yes.  Yet, I'm still not convinced that it was legitmate or unintentional.  Then again…this is all subjective and speculation.  That's why this type of "evidence" must be thrown out.

"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer

6:08 pm
February 2, 2011


Buffy

Investigator

posts 93

When I saw the whole Susan "attack", I was strangely reminded of Dereck Acorah and shook my head in dismay. Anyone else? Stay tune, I see a Susan possession in the future!

Reply to Post


Reply to Topic:
S02E22: Unfaithful Spirit: Germany

Guest Name (Required):

Guest Email (Required):

Smileys
Confused Cool Cry Embarassed Frown Kiss Laugh Smile Surprised Wink Yell
Post New Reply

Guest URL (required)

Math Required!
What is the sum of:
3 + 12
   



Permalink Print
Copyright 2010 SkepticalViewer.com - The Ghost Hunters Fansite for Skeptics