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8:58 pm October 1, 2010
| Ghaleon
| | Hazard, KY | |
| Investigator | posts 176 |
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Bobby Mackeys is pretty close to me (about 3 hours away to be exact) so I take more interest in these local cases. Overall the episode was pretty entertaining. Yet AGAIN we have Zak possessed! Also we have Aaron making another claim that he was told to kill the bishop. How many times does it this make now that one of them has been possessed and one is out to kill everybody? At least its not another "orb flew in the back of my head and possessed me" situation! They sat aside about 10 minutes at the end to explain to the audience how they where legit and that they put their lives on the line for this show. It came across to me like they had been taking some heavy scrutiny lately and this was a way of trying to plead to people to believe them. In their defense however I will state that at least they did not bring psychics in with them. Though they do use some rediculous equipment. Seriously everyone knows by now that the creator of the Ovulus has claimed that he made it for entertainment purposes only and he did not see how could truly transition itself to any kind of paranormal environment. As for the Franks Box I think you guys and gals already have your opinions on that little piece of radio mimicry.
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Pain is weakness leaving the body!!!
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12:21 am October 2, 2010
| Revenant
| | Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage" | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1393 |
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Ghaleon said: "It came across to me like they had been taking some heavy scrutiny lately and this was a way of trying to plead to people to believe them. In their defense however I will state that at least they are brining psychics in with them."
Hmmm…I am curious. Bringing in psychics is something that is used to "defend" their actions or views? I am unclear on what you meant. Can you please elaborate?
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"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
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1:41 am October 2, 2010
| Ghaleon
| | Hazard, KY | |
| Investigator | posts 176 |
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Oops, good catch Revenant. It was a typo on my part, I just edited it though. What it was supposed to say was "In their defense however I will stat that at least they did not bring psychics in with them."
Sorry about that, wasn't reading what I was typing at the time. I was going by all of these supposed ghost hunting shows that always brings in the psychics and the dowsing rods and all of that. Thats when it gets a little to much for me to watch.
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Pain is weakness leaving the body!!!
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3:37 am October 2, 2010
| Learjet
| | Australia | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1122 |
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Ghaleon said:
As for the Franks Box I think you guys and gals already have your opinions on that little piece of radio mimicry.
That and EMF meters are my pet peeves. Both are textbook examples of equipment misuse.
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8:01 am October 2, 2010
| Nosfer
| | Rotaredom | |
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Ghaleon said:
They sat aside about 10 minutes at the end to explain to the audience how they where legit and that they put their lives on the line for this show. It came across to me like they had been taking some heavy scrutiny lately and this was a way of trying to plead to people to believe them.
When they have to do that, that should be the first clue. Maybe they would be taken a bit more seriously if they didn't push every episode so far over the top that both nostrils bleed.
I don't exactly hold GH up as a model of anything (well of very few things positive at least lol) but when they with their antics go into a places that GA has gone and you see the difference in results…well, a rational person would sit back and say "But waitaminute"
Maybe tone back the ego and strutting and possessions and I might take a scant interest in the show again. But until then…
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1:12 pm October 2, 2010
| Ghaleon
| | Hazard, KY | |
| Investigator | posts 176 |
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I bet when William Peter Blatty wrote the Exorcist he never dreamed that there would be a trio of guys who could put his character Regan to shame on the possession meter! One of these guys supposidly gets possessed every week, or so it seems. I have always passed off orbs as dust or insects, there always explainable but these guys are the first I ever heard of that can be possessed by floating dust particles! Looks like they need some holy water and a dirt devil at some of these places to save themselves!
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Pain is weakness leaving the body!!!
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1:11 am October 3, 2010
| Learjet
| | Australia | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1122 |
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It's been a while since I've watched Ghost Adventures. During the break I have noticed a shift in tone. It's now more Paranormal State like and darker.
If these guys seriously believe what they are saying, I think they have become a danger to themselves and to others. Aron wants to kill the bishop. One of these days he just might. This show is no longer funny.
When people follow through with their beliefs in demonism they become downright dangerous. Aron has even lost his marriage over it. Propagating this belief onto gullible TV viewers is equally dangerous.
The first couple of seasons were a bit of a lark, but with all this demon possession stuff going on, no more. I'm just waiting to read where one of them ends up in the loony bin or in jail.
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9:13 am October 3, 2010
| Nosfer
| | Rotaredom | |
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That's a good part of the reason why I haven't been watching much of GA lately. If I want to watch that sort of stuff, I'll rent a movie where at least it's been done professionally. That's not why I watch these shows, though, not ones that purport to be real.
If this stuff were going on as intensely and frequently as would be suggested by GA…I'd have seen it by now. The fact that they can go someplace and have all this happen and then have GH come in and the only thing you see is their own brand of tricks…well, it's like GH going places and having things happen consistently and then have GHA go to the same places and nothing happens. It does raise certain questions among the thinking members of the audience. Or, at least, it should!
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3:42 pm October 3, 2010
| hyacinth
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| Investigator | posts 122 |
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I watched GA because they had enthusiasm and were funny in a 2 stooges way . Go in with a lot of tough talk and when they supposedly saw something , run away screaming .This last one was imo the worst show of its type . I couldn't believe Aaron blaming the failure of his marriage on a spirit ghost entity whatever following him home from Bobby Mackeys . Zac is so full of himself and hot air I'm just waiting for him to explode at least that would be entertaining .
I see in the schedule they are doing Waverly Hills Sanatorium and the Stanley Hotel .
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8:11 pm October 3, 2010
| Ghaleon
| | Hazard, KY | |
| Investigator | posts 176 |
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I'm looking forward to the Waverly Hills episode. Its only a three hour drive from my house and I have been there a few times.
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Pain is weakness leaving the body!!!
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7:35 am October 4, 2010
| HollyDolly
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| Investigator | posts 194 |
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I have only watched two episodes which my sister kindly taped for me.I thought the guys were goofy,
But maybe meant well. I don't understand what the fascination with demons is, nor where it's coming from.
I believe that there are evil spirits both human and inhuman,but I don't go around looking for them either.People encountering a real demon in some place is very rare.And possesion doesn't happen where you are possessed one minute and then free the next.That's all hogwash.I know there is information on the subject of demonic possession, on the net and eslewhere.Even many catholic priests never encounter a true demonic possession during their working lifetime.Same goes for ministers and rabbis too.
Even nowadays, the Church wants the supposed possessed person to have medical and mental evaluations to rule those things out first. As far as Aron's marriage goes, if it broke apart, it wasn't because of some hitchhiking ghost,but rather because of his obsession with the subject and whatever problems they were having at the time.Ghost hunting like anything can become a danger to you and those you love if you can think of nothing else and let it consume you. By the way, who is this bishop Aron want's to kill?
As far as equipment goes, they might be better off sticking to dowsing rods rather than k2 meters ,Frank's Box and the like.At least they have been used for hundreds of years.I don't know if they detect electro magnetic levels or whatever in the earth in order to work, but they can't be any worse than an emf detector. Also, I wonder if infra-red film or cameras might pick up some of these shadows that GH keep seeing,which we don't, though if the camera man isn't filming the direction that someone is looking in, you still won't know what they are looking at.
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9:06 am October 4, 2010
| Nosfer
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Well, just because something has been used for hundreds of years doesn't make it any more solid of science. But, you're right, there probably isn't much difference between a typical K2 session and a dowsing rod session. The rods were originally used for finding water so I don't know if the spiritual association is as long as you might think. I've tested witchers before and they've failed. There have also been some studies done with it where the results were not exactly positive.
Additionally, a witcher all of a sudden getting a signal at one place and not 5 feet away and saying to drill here…well, I'd love to see the potentiometric surface map under that field!
Hard to say any absolutes on demonic possessions. I'm not sure why you couldn't have a brief possession where you are possessed one minute and not the next. I doubt these three characters are the types of people that would happen to, but still.
I thought they DID use IR cameras….
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9:28 am October 4, 2010
| Revenant
| | Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage" | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1393 |
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HollyDolly: "As far as equipment goes, they might be better off sticking to dowsing rods rather than k2 meters ,Frank's Box and the like.At least they have been used for hundreds of years.I don't know if they detect electro magnetic levels or whatever in the earth in order to work, but they can't be any worse than an emf detector."
Hmmm…I understand what you're saying…but…I just want to throw this out there:
I am somewhat uncomfortable throwing EMF detectors, things like the Frank Box, and dowsing rods in the same category. I would view them as three independent categories. The EMF detectors are valid pieces of equipment. Extremely useful when used properly. Our gigantic problem with them is how they are used and the theories cooked up by these paranormal investigatory groups. Even the K2 may be a cheap version, but it's still "ok" for what it is truly intended for. The Frank Box, Shack Hack, Ovilus and the rest of that stuff I would categorize as electronic nonsense. The entire point of these devices is to randomly generate words in one way or another. Very little science to hang your hat on with these. As for dowsing rods, even though used for hundreds of years, I personally have never seen any scientific evidence that they actually work.
So having to say all that…I still understand your point. I've always maintained that these groups could nail a little arrow to a plank of wood, spin it, and it would point them in the direction of ghosts just as well as any of the "ghost detecting" equipment that they are using.
As for possession…I've countered that argument before in a few PS threads. I won't be getting back into it, but lets just say I have a very dim view of it…
The episode itself…I found it very disjointed. Wait, that's not explaining much. I found the episode more disjointed than usual. It seemed that they were patching things together from all over the place. The only theme that really came across is that Zak is yearning to direct some music videos. Tell me he wasn't trying to show his "talent" for that sort of thing with that episode. "Yes, I yell at ghosts, but I'll make a music video for your band too. Call me at 555-JERK."
The other thing that jumped out at me was an EVP about mid-way in the show. I think it said "Come with me" or something like that. I was in the kitchen when I first heard it. At that point, I didn't hear that it was an EVP, I thought it was Zak talking to the other two guys. So I come back into the room and they play it again. Um…wow…that REALLY sounds like Zak. To the point where if I had some sort of voice recognition program, that's the first EVP that I'd run through it. I'm usually pretty good with voices. That EVP…I'm not going to do it but Officer Barbrady should start getting ready for my declaration of shenanigans. Get your brooms ready! (Hmmm…no South Park fans here? )
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"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
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2:17 pm October 4, 2010
| Ghaleon
| | Hazard, KY | |
| Investigator | posts 176 |
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You hit the nail on the head Revenant with differentiating the emf, ovilus and dowsing rods. What I don't understand is more and more I am reading about Ghost Hunters using the new version of the ovilus (they discontinued the original) and the Franks Box. I wonder when they recieve these in the mail if they read the manual at all? If they did they would notice that both say "for entertainment purposes only" on the first page! The creator of the Ovilus said that it was only made to be like a toy that someone could just mess around with and see what random words they could generate. When he heard that it was being taken seriously he said that it was not intended to be used that way at all. After saying that he disconitiued the ovilus and made it an Iphone app only (yes you can purchase the ovilus for 99 cents on your iphone right now as compared to $149 for the actual box) and then made the original into a smaller version called the PR or something like that. The Franks Box is just a radio and has no backing of any kind behind it. The first time I encountered one of these in the field was a very weird situation for me. I do a lot of ghost hunting and try and debunk everything that I can, but its hard to do when you got a guy a few feet from you with a radio on flicking through channels all the time.
One other thing that really bothers me about GA and it happened yet again in this episode, is ghosts calling Zak out by name! I have recorded a lot of EVP's and I have heard a LOT of EVP's and I have yet to meet anyone who has gotten an EVP of something saying their name and telling them they hate them in any location they have ever been to. I might have heard one at one time or another but to say that I get something calling my name every time I go to a place is ludicrous! Now that I think of it in most episodes I don't remember them saying their names out loud ( I could be totally wrong here) so are we to believe that these ghosts can read their minds and know their names? If thats the case then I espect an EVP to tell their horoscope to happen soon!
The funniest part of it all is these guys are always on their knees begging you to believe them. The ending to this one was no exception. But its hard to believe when you have such weird cinematography. I think Revenant was mainly referring to the end when Bobby Mackay is playing it shows Zak, Aaron and Nick just standing there but it looks like Zak is continously sliding forward while staring straight ahead into space. It did have a music video vibe to it and it gives the show a black eye in terms of them wanting you to believe. Even the commercials are set up that way, especially when they cut to one and it shows a picture of Zak yelling at a light bulb. And people wonder why I believe this man is on roids!?!
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Pain is weakness leaving the body!!!
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2:28 pm October 4, 2010
| Nosfer
| | Rotaredom | |
| Moderator
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Ghaleon said:
You hit the nail on the head Revenant with differentiating the emf, ovilus and dowsing rods.
I'm not sure the distinction _in the way they use them_ is all that great. There is really no difference between supposedly communicating with a spirit using random words vs random hand twitches vs random lights.
What I don't understand is more and more I am reading about Ghost Hunters using the new version of the ovilus (they discontinued the original) and the Franks Box.
When has GH _ever_ used an Ovilus in one of their investigations?
I have recorded a lot of EVP's and I have heard a LOT of EVP's and I have yet to meet anyone who has gotten an EVP of something saying their name and telling them they hate them in any location they have ever been to.
Would be curious as to what most of the EVPs you've captured entail. Are any of them posted anywhere for listening to?
It did have a music video vibe to it and it gives the show a black eye in terms of them wanting you to believe.
I don't know if you can give a further black-eye to something that already has an RGB of (0,0,0)
Your point is taken though about all these spirits being on a first name basis with the group. How can that be? These guys, especially Zak, have ego problems. Like Ryan(?) in PS, they are making themselves out to be crusaders, battling the forces of evil. Holy Warriors (I think Ryan even has said that) What better way to elevate your stature than to pass off that the evil spirits of the netherworld know you by name and are specifically at war with you. Man, talk about an ego trip for them. Could probably offer a psych degree just using them as subjects of study.
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11:16 pm October 4, 2010
| Ghaleon
| | Hazard, KY | |
| Investigator | posts 176 |
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Hey Nosfer, when I said ghost hunters using the ovilus I was not referring to the television show ghost hunters I just meant that I hated to see just ghost hunters in general use these unscientific toys. It was my fault for capatalizing ghost hunters, it gave the impression as the show title when I just meant random people who ghost hunt.
Speaking of which, I got a bunch of emails from people from random sites that wanted me to tell them about Waverly Hills and how it is. The first thing a majority of these people mentioned was "I wonder what would happen if you brought a ghost box in there?" When you explain to them how this is just a radio and very irrelevant to find anything let alone ghosts they through a fit! Usually it ends up with them saying something like, "how do you know its not real, have you ever used one?" or "I have a friend whos cousin has one and they carried on a full conversation with a ghost once!" Typical responses from people who believe this stuff. One thing that I found quite sad though, is I read an article recently where this woman was over a ghost hunting team in her town. Her son got killed in a car wreck this year and of course it devestated her. She went back out with her ghost hunting team and took an ovilus with her and she claims that she talked to her son. Now she uses it all the time because she believes that her son is controlling it and talking to her. It just goes to show you how something that is just made as a gimmick and to be used just for fun can be taken and twisted into something bad when you have people who pushes it on television for the wrong reason.
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Pain is weakness leaving the body!!!
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3:11 am October 5, 2010
| Learjet
| | Australia | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1122 |
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I watched a similar video a while back where a mother lost her toddler and got some kind of ghost box to communicate with him. There were subtitles on the screen which were necessary because it was just hash. It was heart wrenching to watch the "communication" with nothing. I guess grief can bring out desperation and we lose all objectivity.
Just getting back to GA for a minute lol, I notice Bobby Mackay himself still didn't seem too convinced that his place was haunted, and he spends more time there than anyone else.
The GA team reckon skeptics should visit the place. If I lived a bit closer I'd take them up on that! Let's take in the SV dream team and sus it out some time. Might be a good place for the GH drinking game and a bit of karaoke. 
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1:02 pm October 5, 2010
| Ghaleon
| | Hazard, KY | |
| Investigator | posts 176 |
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I have noticed that Learjet, that Bobby Mackay still to this day does not believe that anything has ever occured in his place. One time on National Geographic they sent a research team into Bobby Mackays. When they went to the basement they got high levels of Carbon Monoxide readings while down there. They said that would explain the hallucinations, loss of balance on the stairs, convulsions and all the other happenings in the basement. If the levels are as high as they say I just wonder how someone has not died or had other complications from the fumes? Also how is the GA team able to stay down there around it for so long?
I have thought about going to Bobby Mackays to investigate since its only like 3 hours or so away from me, but I always get side tracked. I have been to a lot of places around it over the years investigating but never it. This might be a good year for it, if I do I'll defenitley keep a record on here.
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Pain is weakness leaving the body!!!
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2:14 pm October 5, 2010
| Revenant
| | Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage" | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1393 |
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Ghaleon said: "One time on National Geographic they sent a research team into Bobby Mackays. When they went to the basement they got high levels of Carbon Monoxide readings while down there. They said that would explain the hallucinations, loss of balance on the stairs, convulsions and all the other happenings in the basement. If the levels are as high as they say I just wonder how someone has not died or had other complications from the fumes? Also how is the GA team able to stay down there around it for so long?"
First and foremost…Carbon Monoxide poisoning is no joke. It's odorless, tasteless, colorless and just overall nasty in a home environment. If you…yes you sitting there reading…do not have any CO detectors, then rip yourself from the net (it will be here when you get back), go out in the real world (I know, I know…the sun is scary…) and go get yourself a handful (and some batteries). They are cheap and can save your life, your family's lives, and your dog's lives (nobody really cares about cats… ). Alright, with that out of the way…
Although I do applaud the National Geographic team for looking at such things like CO levels, two things come to mind. First, kind of weird that Nat-Geo is even doing things like paranormal investigation. Not judging or anything, just…curious about it. The other thing…I'm also not a big fan of "blanket solutions." As in, there was a high level of CO on this particular day at this particular time and that should explain everything for the past 20 years or however long the stories have been building.
And to answer your own questions, Ghaleon…time and concentration. The cause of the CO at the time Nat-Geo swept through may have been eliminated by the time the GA crew came in. In fact, by law…it would have had to have been eliminated.
As for concentration levels, one can maintain actually quite well in very low levels. In fact, here's what OSHA has to say about it:
http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/healthguidelines/carbonmonoxide/recognition.html
So as you can see, as a gas…it's not very lethal, especially at low exposure. It's just touted as so dangerous because it can be found at times in our homes. Most extremely lethal or dangerous gases are typically not found anywhere near where we live (well..hopefully…).
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"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
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