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1:32 pm November 19, 2009
| alicat
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| Lead Investigator | posts 1215 |
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Concertina,
I think if you read through this site, especially the GA Halloween show, you will find that most of us merely think of GA as pure entertainment presented as such for television. I just don't know why you would say they are proving what they already believe. I seriously doubt they believe anything and it's more like they are acting up on cue from a pre-written script. It's just a TV show that makes you laugh.
Here's a clue not just about GH and TAPS but in general. Some of the best con men are serious in their presentation and manor. That's what makes it a good con. So, if you are using that as a criterion, you might want to reconsider that as a prerequisite. I seriously doubt you ever heard at any time that someone was conned by a person who acted like those on GA. If they were, you'd have more than one dumb person in the mix. GH/TAPS skeptical? That's really debatable. Originally we thought they were. Now, you may be hard pressed to find anyone who believes that here. Nice words but just words they throw around like the theories they repeat over and over and over again. I think that's why a number of people and paranormal groups are now distancing themselves from TAPS. You should really read this site a bit more to understand why.
Regarding the location. I understand your thoughts and that's why there was hope. However, there was so much not taken into consideration and the actions and sheer stupidity of some scenes, was enough to show me there was absolutely no serious intention of any legitimate investigation going on there.
It's a shame that you watch GH and consider a lot of their episodes boring. I don't think that's what Syfy was hoping for when they bought the program.
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3:37 pm November 19, 2009
| Nosfer
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blinddog50 said:
TAPS seem (to me anyway) the most credible.
Heave…gag…hack…choke…ack!
Well, it IS all relative. I won't necessarily buy the "most credible" statement, but I will say "more credible" With GH there are still a few things that might be real, with GA, that boat sunk quite a while ago.
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3:46 pm November 19, 2009
| alicat
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| Lead Investigator | posts 1215 |
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True Nosfer, there are still a few things that might be real. I will give you that. However, my GH boat sank a bit before the Titanic episode did. I'm thinking of making a cake, anyone have some extra flour?
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3:53 pm November 19, 2009
| Nosfer
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Not saying it ain't rickety, but at least still has the gunwales slightly above water LOL
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9:38 pm November 19, 2009
| alicat
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| Lead Investigator | posts 1215 |
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Not sure if I still want to take a ride on it though. I think I've bailed out on the paranormal but the entertainment value is still there as long as you don't take it seriously. 
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10:26 pm November 19, 2009
| Concertina
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| Investigator in Training | posts 5 |
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Hey, I'm a skeptic who wants to believe lol…… I've been watching GH since day 1 and whether they are real/fake or a combination of the two makes no difference to me. The fact that they don't irritate me and I find their show interesting is enough to keep me glued.
I watched GA for the first time when they had that 2 hour documentary on SciFi years ago, and at the time I thought it was pretty good. But now that I have seen their series, and have since gone back and watched that 2 hour documentary, I can't help but laugh out loud at it all. If it isn't being so bold in saying so, I really would like to slap the living (insert foul substance here) out of Zac Baggins for his irritating nature. That's really all I have to say on the subject of GA. I don't work on the sets of any of these shows so I can't really say what's real or not. I reiterate, that even though GH may or may not be real, they are more convincing, and that makes watching 43 minutes of their show worth my time.
And when I say some of their episodes are boring, I meant that as a positive. Some episodes they just don't find anything interesting at all. But what I like about it is that they don't become desperate enough to fake something just to make for better viewing. I am happy with the show the way it is.
Still though, I want to fight Zac Baggins with a wooden stick.
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6:21 am November 20, 2009
| alicat
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| Lead Investigator | posts 1215 |
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Concertina,
Still though, I want to fight Zac Baggins with a wooden stick.
LOL! Somehow I think there are many people in front of and behind you that would like that same priviledge. In other words, you are not alone in your feelings about GA or Zac in particular.
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7:18 am November 20, 2009
| blinddog
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But what I like about it is that they don't become desperate enough to fake something just to make for better viewing.
Concertina, this statement refers to GH.
Correct?
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Double tap to the head. Don't become Undead.
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5:48 pm November 20, 2009
| Concertina
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| Investigator in Training | posts 5 |
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blinddog50 said:
But what I like about it is that they don't become desperate enough to fake something just to make for better viewing.
Concertina, this statement refers to GH. Correct?
Yes, correct. Now don't get me wrong, I am NOT saying the possibility that they've NEVER become desperate enough to fake events in some of their episodes isn't there. But I have seen plenty of episodes where absolutely nothing happens at all, where they could have had an opportunity to fake something to at least make the episode more interesting. They don't deem every place they visit as "haunted", and I love love LOVE when they debunk experiences that the client has. Again, it's a tv show, and in TV land anything goes and we, the viewer, are often unaware of what the actual 'truth' is since we only have edited footage to go by.
The one thing I have questioned though, is how Jay & Grant seem to have all the "experiences". I mean in general, you don't see Steve & Tango get that much action apart from spiders lol…… and Kris and that other girl who's annoying don't encounter all that much either. But hey, what do I know, I'm just one of the millions of naive television viewers that have formed an opinion like everyone else. All I know is, when I die, I'm going to come back as a spirit, and possess Zac Baggin's body for real, and make him dance like a monkey on live television.
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5:51 pm November 20, 2009
| Nosfer
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Concertina…you may wish to check out some of the articles in the "Skeptic's Library" The links are at the top right of this page. Particularly the Doctored Manson FLIR and Collargate articles.
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6:29 pm November 20, 2009
| Concertina
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| Investigator in Training | posts 5 |
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Nosfer said:
Concertina…you may wish to check out some of the articles in the "Skeptic's Library" The links are at the top right of this page. Particularly the Doctored Manson FLIR and Collargate articles.
Yes, I read a few of them, and find them interesting. I was actually going to check out the Manson one next. There are very good points that are made, but I read them with an open mind. Because I cannot stress enough that I can't really sway one way or the other, because I just don't know what's truth, what's conspiracy, and what is totally faked. I give GH the benefit of the doubt compared to other shows of this nature, but I am in no way set on saying GH is real or fake. All of it to me is of interest, hearing both sides.
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8:59 am January 25, 2010
| Saruman of Many Colours
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I've lurked off-and-on for a few months, but thought that I'd contribute.
With regard to the black mist apparently captured on the stationary nightvision camera, curling downwards in the upper left section of the video frame, it certainly looks intriguing, but another program presented a possible (and convincing) debunk of that phenomenon.
GA wasn't using FLIR thermal camera, but I found the similar visual appearance of the supposed mist, interesting.
Happened to watch an episode of 'American Paranormal: Haunted Prison' last night, wherein a team of actual scientists investigated Eastern State Penitentiary in Philadelphia. In order to demonstrate how the FLIR thermographic camera works, they sprayed a can of compressed air in front of the camera. And it manifested on the FLIR's viewscreen as tendrils of dark 'smoke' (albeit at a fairly high velocity, due to the compression). As they explained it, it's not that the FLIR actually detected the compressed air, which has no surface temperature; rather, the compressed air momentarily interrupted the FLIR's reading of the background, which is why it appeared as a darker spot.
Also had some interesting information on cognitive bias, on suggestibility and on the effects of infrasound on human physiology.
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3:38 pm February 9, 2010
| bullerspoke
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| Investigator | posts 101 |
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It hurts… to read people deeming GH credible. But first, let me say, I do not even try to judge GH and GA by the same standard. GA never claimed to be skeptics or scientific just three guys hunting for ghosts, using whatever is thrown their way by so called paranormal experts. GH claimed to be skeptics and scientific and in fact to be something of paranormal experts themselves. It's like comparing apples and oranges.
GA is a high-paced entertainment show, depicting three guys with wicked tv editing skills hunting ghosts. They present a good drama, do extensive introduction and well, make a good show. When I watch GA it is so refreshing because I really only watch for entertainment. I don't watch for evidence, I simply put my brain on "fun" and go for the ride. And boy do they deliver. Granted the possessions give a bad taste, but it's like a car-crash you just can't resist to watch it. :)
Still I do hope that they by some fluke or accident happen to catch something really intriguing (and not enhanced noise and invisible mists, has anyone seen the mists GA claim to show? Also, except for a few in Moon River the EVP's are non-hearable). But really, that is a vain hope, just an added fun.
GH… where do I start? They came and said we are serious and scientific and debunkers and then in practice was almost the opposite. The go on and on about EMF inducing this and that, which is total BS. They throw hangers, edit FLIR takes to match their story, talk to randomly fluttering K2's, Grant keeps pulling stunt after stunt, and furthermost, catch living, breathing, people on FLIR and claim them as ghosts, keep mistaking FLIR reflections for ghosts etc etc. This from self-proclaimed skeptics and people who claim to be scientific? It's simply to much. They set the standard of which we should judge them and we did. They fall harder than GA because they put themselves up on a piedestal which did not support them. Remember GH have been doing this for 20+ years, and still they do the same basic mistakes, never develop the field or their techniques and procedure. Instead the use equipment like the K2 which gives a crudload of anomalies but no (none whatsoever) hard data. Such people can not be deemed either credible or serious and neither can their evidence. These are not random guys, these are supposed professionals with years of experience.
So we have GA: three random guys who are novices in the field and basically hunt ghosts for fun and thrills with whatever other people give them, not claiming either to be skeptics or to use scientific methods, hell, they even use mediums and rely heavily on people's stories, and basically never debunk anything, which is ok, since they never set out to do that . They do not claim anything, but do produce some grand entertainment. And that's really all they ever set out to do. Zak once saw a ghost, he wants to see it again and brings two "friends" with on a wild goose chase. And he comes up with very low-grade "evidence" (but they are vary excited about what they catch for sure )
Then we have GH: A number of people, led by two people who has been investigating fro 20+ years and claim to be skeptics and to use scientific methods in their investigation, and go out to debunk. Do they follow up on these claims? Not really, in fact most often than not they do the opposite. They use equipment they do not know how to use, but still claim they gather data with them.
No, where should judgment fall? Well, in my mind, on those whose actions does not match their words, and that is GH. Period.
Also, GH is dreadfully boring tv, and the editing an camerawork is sloppy and formulaic. GA in the other hand is tight, well-edited and well-shot and a much better production.That is really beside the point, but the reason GH is sometimes really boring is not because they are more serious and don't "embellish" their investigation, but because the production sucks.
And let's not forget it is GH who has produced the most lavish evidence, like sheetie, and not GA. The bolder the claim, the better the evidence must be…
Stil of course I hope GH might stumble upon something, but actually, I would be hard-pressed to believe any evidence from GH at all, because of their track record.
In short, both are equally not credible, but one of them claims to be, the other not.
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When in doubt… figure it out!
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1:26 pm February 10, 2010
| HollyDolly
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| Investigator | posts 194 |
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Well, the reason the production values on GH suck is because Pilgrim doesn't give a hoot, and has sloppy editors.Also, i think it was mentioned here or elsewhere something about Jason and Grant being producers of some sort for the show.They have no more tv experience than I do.
In one episode, they investigated a historical site.In the kitchen of this place, there was a large garden fork, used to turn earth ,etc. Next to it were some chains.You can see on the reveal the chains actually move by themselves, and it appears the one chain is untangled from the other one before the garden fork moves to the side.In this episode they also caught an evp of a cat meowing,and their host, she told them about a ghost cat. Can't think of the name of this historic house.
But yeah, they guys at GA really seem to enjoy what they do, even if they are goofy, where as GH, they seem to be bored here lately.Still I watch the dvds of these shows my sister sends me.
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5:09 am February 19, 2010
| bullerspoke
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| Investigator | posts 101 |
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I was out of boredom and some curiosity surfing wikipedia, without any aim, when I stumbled across the article on Poveglia Island. And it tells a different story than the one we were treated to on GA. It seems almost all of GA's claims is modern folklore, and above that folklore that really isn't common knowledge. So much for research… Not even checking wikipedia on a location you are about to investigate seems less than diligent.
It seems GA only recounted legends and stories handed to them by local believers, such as the guy who gave them their "tour". An did not check out the actual history. The biggest frig-up this lead to was the claim that there had lied a mental hospital on the island, which it hadn't, in fact the island had housed a retirement home (built in 1922). Not scary enough, I guess.
Also noteworthy, was that the island had quite recently been used fro agriculture, which kind of contradicts the stories of the place being abandoned due to the common belief the island being cursed/haunted. You don't send the elderly och grow to a place that is commonly known to be cursed, horrific and plagued by death, no? Which indicates the islands reputation is heavily embellished by the paranormal community. Sure it has been used a quarantine station, and (regular) hospital, but also as harbour, artillery bastion and as mentioned before and place for a retirement home and agriculture.
I know, this isn't that surprising, but still it is irritating that they try to sell the place as hell on earth, with legends that in some cases are factually wrong. Ok, it's GA, it is entertainment, but still this was surprisingly embellished even for them.
One of the fun things about shows like GA and GHI (and GH at times) is the locations and the history surrounding some of the places. When GA so blatantly ignore the history and go for only for embellished legend (modern in origin), it really devalues that aspect of the show. The fun or sad thing, is that they at Remington made a whole number on how they do research on the locations they visit. Sure, guys, what you do is scour for legends and anything that can add a paranormal vibe to a place. Don't try to pass it of as research. Please.
Lastly, I know, it's GA, it's entertainment, it's a tv show, but it is really quite disrespectful to misportray a place like that. The people watching get the wrong idea and you only purport myth and legend. You could atleast add the actual history of the place and not only legend, if nothing else, so as a service to the viewers. I guarantuee the ghosties wouldn't mind, but I do believe they would mind that you don't even get basic facts right.
Here is the article (in english, the italian is even better but not I don't know much italian, but enough to realise it does not support GA's claims)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poveglia
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When in doubt… figure it out!
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8:39 pm February 8, 2012
| ydfkdy
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| Investigator in Training | posts 2 |
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Concertina said:
I'm not a regular viewer of Ghost Adventures. I find Zac and his crew to be incredibly annoying and unprofessional. I gave the show a chance a few months ago when I watched one episode (the one where they went to Bobby Mackey's and Zac was "scratched" by a demon..lol…) and although interesting, did not find it credible nor convincing. I swore off Ghost Adventures after that until I saw that they went to Poveglia Island, which in itself sounded like a recipe for a great episode.
Oh how wrong I was. Everything from Zac's "possession" to the unconvincing look on Aaron's face as he says, "The camera just stopped recording… out of NO WHERE" turned something that was supposed to be scary into a Comedy Central stand-up Special. Are you kidding me?
Most of, if not all the "disembodied voices" did not give me that "paranormal" vibe (but more something explainable), and the panic-attacks by the investigators that occurred every five minutes did nothing for me except an involuntary response to roll my eyes. The black mist was interesting, reminded me of the movie "The Grudge", but I am still skeptical as to what it could have been.
Saying that, there is no doubt in my mind a place like that is haunted. But who can tell what is going on when all you are hearing is Zac's constant babbling? The guy needs a Xanax, and a nap. And I'll stick to my Ghost Hunters as after having watched all the other Paranomal shows out there right now, TAPS seem (to me anyway) the most credible.
you say u are investigator in training, u also say u picked up no vibes and it was a great comedy. well if u get vibes like u say u do then this should b a simple task for u. here is some history for u and some pictures. pictures should b easy to pick vibes up on weather they b in a form of energy, good, bad, or whatever u pick up. http://www.mentalfloss.com/blo…..ives/55234. maybe u should schedual a day to go investigate, and this island was on scariest places on earth prior to being on ghost adventures.
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8:54 pm February 8, 2012
| ydfkdy
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| Investigator in Training | posts 2 |
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if u all r so skeptic go find ur own ghost hunting adventures and see what u get. this episode first came on scariest places on earth, maybe u should give them a call maybe they can give u all ur first adventure who knows. u can also pay GH to hang out with them when they come to ur city but y do that when u can join ur local paranormal team. but who is to say u will all experience what ur looking for or get what u want.
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9:03 am February 9, 2012
| Nosfer
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Welcome "fgjalflka" Perhaps you should read some more of the threads in here before shooting off and suggesting what all we should do.
Also, do you REALLY save that much time by writing u for you or ur for your or r for are or y for why? Why don't you abbreviate the bigger words like experience to something like xprenc? You get a lot more bang for your buck with saved time…see what I did, I just saved 5 letters! You also missed the obvious "c" for "see" or 1st for first.
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3:47 pm February 19, 2012
| Eric
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I presume we never hear from ydfkdy ever again. 
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