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"Witch Bottle" Discovered

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11:47 pm
June 8, 2009


Revenant

Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage"

Lead Investigator

posts 1393

I was uncertain as to which section to post this under.  We've never really discussed witchcraft in the General Paranormal section before.  I considered the "Fringe" Science section…yet…having witchcraft and science in the same sentence makes me queasy.  So…General Paranormal it is…

As the title says, an actual witch bottle from the 17th century was recently discovered in Greenwich, England.  Many have been discovered before, but never intact.  This one was.  And it yielded some very interesting contents.  Be warned…if very old magical jars filled with urine, nail clippings, hair, and brimstone upset you, then do not follow this link:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31107319/

I was impressed with the extent of the study.  CT scans and chemical analysis including gas chromatography.  Nice.  After all the shenanigans with GH, GA and the rest of them, it does my heart good to see some real science being done by real scientists and getting some verifiable results. 

"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer

5:57 am
June 9, 2009


Wallydraigle

Ohio

Investigator

posts 114

Neat.

6:41 am
June 9, 2009


Oubliette

Igloo in NJ

Lead Investigator

posts 574

This is a very important find.  I didn't find it gross in any way, but actually was amazed that modern forensics was even able to determine the person involved was a smoker!

It is hard for us to understand the power that belief in the supernatural in everyday life held sway over otherwise rational people.  From early medieval times and well into the 18th century, people believed in witches, demons, consulted astrologers, prophets-i.e., the Maid of Kent-and many carried protective bags around their necks to ward off evil.

Elizabeth I, although one of the most intelligent rulers in history, herself made no important decisions without consulting Doctor Dee, a well-known astrologer but also a learned man who studied mathematics and philosophy.  Even he was caught up in thinking that supernatural forces could have an effect on people's lives. 

It is appealing to think that we could bring about change in our lives through a magical practice.  There's a few people that I would create a witch bottle for!

I was about to write that it's fortunate we have outgrown this type of magical thinking but just one episode of PS dispels that notion.

If 50 million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.
Anatole France

7:04 am
June 9, 2009


alicat

Lead Investigator

posts 1215

I agree with Oubliette.  I found it very interesting.  I love reading about these types of finds.  Here are a few links to check out regarding Revenant's original link with a picture of the actual bottle itself and another one as well.  In addition, the last link refers to the other bottle and also gives you a spell.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leicestershire/6386403.stm 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/dorset/4376442.stm 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lincolnshire/3437241.stm 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/4388248.stm

8:12 am
June 9, 2009


Learjet

Australia

Lead Investigator

posts 1122

Lol on the "how to spot a witch" cartoon. I always thought the water test a little unfair. If the person floats – a witch which they then burn or hang resulting in dead. If they sink they drown so dead there too. Dead  no matter which way you try them.

OD'd on EMF

12:13 pm
June 9, 2009


Revenant

Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage"

Lead Investigator

posts 1393

Learjet said:

Lol on the "how to spot a witch" cartoon. I always thought the water test a little unfair. If the person floats – a witch which they then burn or hang resulting in dead. If they sink they drown so dead there too. Dead  no matter which way you try them.


It reminded me of the scene from Monty Python and the Holy Grail:

Sir Bedevere: There are ways of telling whether she is a witch.
Peasant 1: Are there? Oh well, tell us.
Sir Bedevere: Tell me. What do you do with witches?
Peasant 1: Burn them.
Sir Bedevere: And what do you burn, apart from witches?
Peasant 1: More witches.
Peasant 2: Wood.
Sir Bedevere: Good. Now, why do witches burn?
Peasant 3: …because they're made of… wood?
Sir Bedevere: Good. So how do you tell whether she is made of wood?
Peasant 1: Build a bridge out of her.
Sir Bedevere: But can you not also build bridges out of stone?
Peasant 1: Oh yeah.
Sir Bedevere: Does wood sink in water?
Peasant 1: No, no, it floats!… It floats! Throw her into the pond!
Sir Bedevere: No, no. What else floats in water?
Peasant 1: Bread.
Peasant 2: Apples.
Peasant 3: Very small rocks.
Peasant 1: Cider.
Peasant 2: Gravy.
Peasant 3: Cherries.
Peasant 1: Mud.
Peasant 2: Churches.
Peasant 3: Lead! Lead!
King Arthur: A Duck.
Sir Bedevere: …Exactly. So, logically…
Peasant 1: If she weighed the same as a duck… she's made of wood.
Sir Bedevere: And therefore…
Peasant 2: …A witch!

What's better than a little Python to celebrate my 400th post?  Laughing

"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer

12:45 pm
June 9, 2009


alicat

Lead Investigator

posts 1215

Congratulations Revenant!  I'll take a little Python with a pint and my parrot, Polly, agrees.  Right Polly?  Uh,…he's resting.  'ELLO POLLY!!!!! Testing! Testing! Testing! Testing! This is your nine o'clock alarm call!

Nevermind!  Congratulations Revenant!

1:54 pm
June 9, 2009


Nosfer

Rotaredom

Moderator

posts 2956

It reminded me of the scene from Monty Python and the Holy Grail:

I _cannot_ believe you left out the part of the scene about being turned into a newt!!

Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.

3:24 pm
June 9, 2009


Revenant

Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage"

Lead Investigator

posts 1393

Nosfer said:

I _cannot_ believe you left out the part of the scene about being turned into a newt!!


Sir Bedevere: What makes you think she's a witch?
Peasant 3: Well, she turned me into a newt!
Sir Bedevere: A newt?
Peasant 3: [meekly after a long pause] … I got better.
Crowd: [shouts] Burn her anyway!

You mean that one?  Wink

And Alicat…thanks.  Four hundred posts of "um…what?"…I'm so proud.  As for Polly:

"'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies!
'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig!
'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!!

THIS IS AN EX-PARROT!!"

"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer

3:43 pm
June 9, 2009


Nosfer

Rotaredom

Moderator

posts 2956

[meekly after a long pause] … I got better.

That's the one!! I have many favorite scenes in that movie, but that is one of the top ones…Thanks!!

Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.

4:48 pm
June 9, 2009


Hannah

Texas

Lead Investigator

posts 361

Truly fascinating.  I had heard of nail, hair clippings, urine and other things, but never knew there were witch bottles.  Congrats Revenant on your 400th post!  Thanks alicat for the other links were interesting.  Would not have thought the urine would still be liquid. 

Edit:

Interesting site: Apotropaios (greek origin of the word apotropiac, meaning evil-averting)

Concealed shoes used as spirit traps, witches bottles, dried cats, horse skulls, and ritual marks, etc.

http://www.apotropaios.co.uk/

11:52 am
June 11, 2009


Revenant

Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage"

Lead Investigator

posts 1393

Oubliette said:

It is appealing to think that we could bring about change in our lives through a magical practice.  There's a few people that I would create a witch bottle for!


Hey…you leave Jason, Grant, Zac, Ryan and Chip alone!  Tongue out

And thanks to Alicat and Hannah for the links.  Quite interesting, especially Apotropaios.  Maybe I should start taking a look at witchcraft and see how it relates to modern day beliefs and practices, especially as it pertains to "paranormal activity" as seen on our favorite TV shows.  Always interesting how the past forms the future…

"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer

4:01 am
June 16, 2009


MissMissy

LA County, CA

Investigator

posts 51

Revenant said:

Hey…you leave Jason, Grant, Zac, Ryan and Chip alone!  Tongue out


If we do leave them alone then there is no point in going on with my life! It used to be Ryan but my cross hairs are now set on the pretty boy (i.e. Zak). They are like Frats Gone Wild: Ghost Edition.

If the truth is out there than why haven't I found it yet?

2:34 pm
June 16, 2009


Revenant

Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage"

Lead Investigator

posts 1393

MissMissy said:

Revenant said:

Hey…you leave Jason, Grant, Zac, Ryan and Chip alone!  Tongue out


If we do leave them alone then there is no point in going on with my life! It used to be Ryan but my cross hairs are now set on the pretty boy (i.e. Zak). They are like Frats Gone Wild: Ghost Edition.


Hmmm…if I were to rank them, with "1" being not only first, but who suffered the most (I mean, I am using a Witch Bottle after all…), I would go:

1) Chip- "Psychics/Mediums" like him should always get the biggest and nastiest witch bottles.

2) Ryan- His show is hurting people and all he cares about is the glory.

3) Grant- His fishing line and fake falls along with his "I would never fake evidence" wide-eyed sincerity has earned him this spot.

4) Jason- Simply the use of the word "hawesome" gets him here.

5) Zac- Yes, he's annoying, but he's not quite on the level as the others.  He knows he's faking evidence.  The public knows he's faking evidence.  Even the ghosts know that he's faking evidence ("Dude…that wasn't me!  Swear to God!  I'm over here!  That was just the wind.  Wait, I can do…never mind…").  The show should really be categorized as a docu-comedy.  I mean, it is pretty funny.  Laughing 

"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer

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