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10:34 am October 24, 2010
| Revenant
| | Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage" | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1393 |
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I recently watched a commercial for a new show called "Auction Kings." I guess with "Pawn Stars" grabbing some ratings, similar shows will take a stab at the pie. And speaking of stabbing…
What drew my attention to this show, that starts next Tuesday, was a glimpse of a Vampire Killing Kit. As fate may have it…their website shows a clip of one so everyone here can check it out:
http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/auction-kings-vampire-killing-kit.html
Wanting to find out more, I found this article. It's nice and short and also provides many links to other examples of kits. You can find that HERE.
Do I believe that these kits are authentic? I lean towards no. I haven't researched them so I'm just guessing. I'm not saying that the items are fake, they are probably from the time period. I'm just doubting that these kits were put together and sold in the late 1800's.
However, would I buy one? You better believe I would…if the price was right. I love old technology and old science gear (having bought an astrolabe earlier this summer…my pride and joy). Anyway, from the article, they are reaching into the thousands. At high end, $12,000 to $20,000. That…is a bunch of crazy. Sure, having a period piece pistol or small crossbow would be great, but certainly not for that price. The article mentioned one being sold for $4500. Even that seems high to me but its getting closer. I mean they do come with a couple of silver period piece knives as well.
Anyway, with Halloween closing in on us and if you're still trying to find that perfect gift for me…well…get your auction cards ready…(I'd prefer a kit with a crossbow over a pistol…). 
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"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
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1:17 pm October 24, 2010
| Orion
| | The Mundane Plane | |
| Investigator | posts 105 |
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I've known about these for a long time, and though no doubt some are modern constructs using collected antiques, I also believe many of them are the real deal. Science and myth held sway over people for hundreds of years, the "Age of Reason" didn't happen overnight.
Hey, look at things today – the paranormal is bigger than ever, witchcraft and wicca, among other forms of magic and new age or pagan religions, are flourishing, and many superstitions still hold power over even "regular" folks; so I'm not really surprised.
And it's probably only going to get more so, due to quantum mechanics and it's theories: from superposition and bilocation (spooky action at a distance) the Zero Point Field (virtual particles), warping of the space-time continuum, to the 11 dimensions of string theory, to M Theory, to you name it. Reality might actually be weirder than we ever thought.
I'd love to have one o' them vampire hunting kits myself, but it wouldn't be that hard to make your own, really. I've also seen Werewolf killing kits. Silver bullets are a little hard to come by though. 
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Having an open mind is a two way street.
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1:51 pm October 24, 2010
| Revenant
| | Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage" | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1393 |
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Orion said: "I've known about these for a long time…"
That's just it. How long is a long time? I'm thinking that I've been aware of them in only this past decade or so. But…I don't remember them while growing up and that strikes me as odd. I used to read everything known to man on Vampires back then…and I don't remember these kits.
It also strikes me as odd that so many seem to be sold now…but have they been sold regularly throughout the past century? Can they be traced back to their creation?
Hmmm…there's something not right about these kits. I have to really set some time aside to take a good look at this.
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"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
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3:09 pm October 24, 2010
| Learjet
| | Australia | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1122 |
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With the silver bullets…. do they have to be solid silver or will silver plating do? What percentage of silver will work, can a 50% to 90% allow do the trick, or will I need 99.9%? Do they have to be fired from a gun or will a silver tipped crossbow bolt work also? Will a silver tipped crossbow bolt kill a vampire / werewolf hybrid? If I drink colloidal silver will it make the werewolf sick and die if it bites me? Will I still turn into a werewolf?
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3:47 pm October 24, 2010
| hyacinth
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| Investigator | posts 122 |
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4:40 pm October 24, 2010
| Nosfer
| | Rotaredom | |
| Moderator
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Alright…you folks ready for some irony? This is somewhat in response to Learjet's post above about silver. Silver bullets are supposed to be effective against werewolves. In fact, silver itself, whether or not in bullet form, is supposed to be a deterrent or even a means to end a werewolf.
Werewolves go through their transformation at the time of the full moon. The theory, then, is that werewolves have a tie to the moon. I don't know whose theory it is, it's just one of those theories that is out there. Let's just call it Herman's Theory.
So, we have silver being bad for werewolves and, by Herman's Theory, we have werewolves with a link to the moon. Now…for the irony:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1322753/Why-Moon-really-IS-silvery-Lunar-surface-contains-traces-precious-metal.html
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11:42 am October 25, 2010
| BSHistorian
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Hi, Big Les from the JREF forum here. Readers of this thread might be interested in a number of posts I've written on the subject of Vampire Killing Kits, starting with something on the Auction Kings piece;
http://bshistorian.wordpress.com/2010/10/16/one-staked-every-minute/
Then comparing a few like known examples;
http://bshistorian.wordpress.com/2010/10/02/towards-a-typology-of-vampire-killing-kits/
Followed by an assessment of their collective authenticity on the basis of folklore and pop culture;
http://bshistorian.wordpress.com/2010/09/01/vampire-killing-kits-2/
A short piece on an oddball French piece;
http://bshistorian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/un-kit-dextermination-de-vampires/
And my original article from 2007, focusing on an obviously recent fake;
http://bshistorian.wordpress.com/2007/10/27/vampire-killing-kits-no-seriously/
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12:47 pm October 25, 2010
| Orion
| | The Mundane Plane | |
| Investigator | posts 105 |
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Revenant said:
Orion said: "I've known about these for a long time…"
That's just it. How long is a long time? I'm thinking that I've been aware of them in only this past decade or so. But…I don't remember them while growing up and that strikes me as odd. I used to read everything known to man on Vampires back then…and I don't remember these kits.
It also strikes me as odd that so many seem to be sold now…but have they been sold regularly throughout the past century? Can they be traced back to their creation?
Hmmm…there's something not right about these kits. I have to really set some time aside to take a good look at this.
Well, to me, 10 years is a long time. 
That's roughly as long as I've known about them too, Rev, but my introduction came by way of Bizarre Magic, not normal paranormal research. We love antique looking props. But my peers and I also thought they were (or at least, some were) geniune.
Hmm.. might be us bizarre magicians have been duped. Or not? I would accept one from the early 20th century as fairly authentic.
I know one thing for sure, speaking of vamp killing myths – the practice of "staking" vampires is a relatively recent (20th century) construct, created by Hollywood. The olde techniques from slavic folklore usually involved decapitation and/or burning. A stake might have been used to hold a vamp in place while you decapitated it, but there was no "wooden stake through the heart" back then, not even in Bram Stoker's Dracula.
Holy water.. that probably has some folklore behind it.
I'm also pretty sure that sunlight first became a vampire killer in the orignal 1922 Nosferatu movie with Max Schrek. Before that, vamps shunned it but I don't think it was deadly to them.
Of course, any truly modern VKK would have a powerful UV light, ala Blade. ;) I never bought into silver as a vampire weapon much though.. thought that was for werewolves.
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Having an open mind is a two way street.
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7:49 pm October 25, 2010
| Learjet
| | Australia | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1122 |
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Orion said:
I never bought into silver as a vampire weapon much though.. thought that was for werewolves.
Well it is, I just thought it might serve as a two in one multi-purpose weapon if tipped onto a crossbow bolt to save carrying all that extra heavy gear around. Not that my theory can be field tested for accuracy lol.
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8:26 pm October 25, 2010
| Wallydraigle
| | Ohio | |
| Investigator | posts 114 |
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You would be amazed at how much stuff pointy objects made of silver will kill.
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2:04 am October 26, 2010
| Revenant
| | Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage" | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1393 |
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Wow…a great deal to respond to…
Learjet asked: "If I drink colloidal silver will it make the werewolf sick and die if it bites me? Will I still turn into a werewolf?"
One…we have no evidence that you are not already a werewolf. Two…one would have to ingest a lethal dosage of colloidal silver to prevent lycanthropy so it will kill you before the werewolf (note – I am not a doctor but I play one on the net). Three…if I were a werewolf I would ask all sorts of questions about silver as well, which further supports the new theory that you, Learjet, are indeed a werewolf. Four…I would suggest to everyone to load up on those fancy-schmancy silver nitrate rounds of ammunition as seen in "Underworld" before visiting Australia because it has just now been proven beyond fact that Learjet is a werewolf.
Orion said: "Of course, any truly modern VKK would have a powerful UV light, ala Blade. ;) I never bought into silver as a vampire weapon much though.. thought that was for werewolves."
Hmmm…I would bypass both the UV light and the silver. I like explosives. Give me some C4 and a few remote detonators and something tells me that I'd become a very formidable vampire killer. And speaking of that….one cannot really "kill" a vampire, can he? I mean, vampires are already dead…or undead. I would be a Vampire Destroyer…with my Vampire Destroying Kit…with C4. 
@ BSHistorian/Big Les -
Very nice work, my friend. And welcome to the site. You know, the more I thought about those kits, the less and less that I believed that they were "real." I am so glad that you stopped by and posted. As I said, I was about to invest a great deal of time researching these things. No reason to re-invent the wheel when you did such a nice job on it and a far better job than I could have done.
And for the record, I'm still not against them, in theory. What I mean is the Vampire Killing Kit is a great idea. It's a fantastic prop, a talking point, and just plain cool…as long as it's on the up and up and regarded as something newly created and not passed off as something old. I'd even be interested in a modern version with Orion's UV light idea, stake and mallet (even if it's a Hollywood invention), so on and so on. It would still be fun to have. But these "old" ones…I'm just not seeing how they are going to auction without authentication.
Wallydraigle said: "You would be amazed at how much stuff pointy objects made of silver will kill."
In the eternal struggle of Rock/Paper/Scissors…C4 trumps both Pointy Objects and Silver. 
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"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
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2:20 am October 26, 2010
| Learjet
| | Australia | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1122 |
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The other thing I could not quite figure out with werewolves, was how full the Moon has to be for the change to happen. Can this only happen for one day per luna cycle or does the Moon just have to be "fullish".
If I was a werewolf I still wouldn't know because werewolves lose their memory for the period of the change. 
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9:34 am October 26, 2010
| Orion
| | The Mundane Plane | |
| Investigator | posts 105 |
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Learjet said:
The other thing I could not quite figure out with werewolves, was how full the Moon has to be for the change to happen. Can this only happen for one day per luna cycle or does the Moon just have to be "fullish".
In lore, I think it's considered 3 nights long, the two "bookend" nights not technically full moons, but close enough.
Must be something in regalith when sunlight reflects off of it.
Same weird theory around "people acting loony" during a full moon. That's always a fun discussion. ;)
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Having an open mind is a two way street.
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11:19 am October 26, 2010
| Revenant
| | Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage" | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1393 |
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Hmmm…Learjet has an awful lot of questions about werewolves and Orion seems to have an awful lot of answers about werewolves. That's it. I'm killing them both. I just can't take any chances. I'm guessing C4 would work just as well on werewovles as it would for vampires…so…when you guys find a very pretty clay pot outside your door-steps, if you could hold them nice and tight to your chests…that would be great. Thanks. 
And always a good starting point for monsters…
http://www.monstropedia.org/index.php?title=Werewolf
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"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
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2:03 pm October 26, 2010
| big_les
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| Investigator in Training | posts 1 |
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Revenant – thanks for the kind words, and I do agree with you. I would love one of the high-end kits. They're really nice pieces. And I can't rule out the possibility that someone, even as far back as the late C19th, might have made one either as a gag, or to sell to the unwary. That – particularly the latter – would be the holy grail of VKKs and would go some way toward vindicating the hawkers of these things!
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4:12 pm October 26, 2010
| Learjet
| | Australia | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1122 |
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I'm not done yet lol.
An eclipse of the Moon can occur at full Moon, what happens to werewolfies then?
And what happens if a werewolf looks at a full moon through a telescope? Or Jupiter's moons which are always full?
Okay I think I'm done now. For 5 minutes anyway.
Sorry to derail thread. So many questions, so little time.
P.S. Found this pot shaped package at the letter box, but it was obviously sent to the wrong person so I returned it to sender. 
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11:12 pm October 26, 2010
| Stephen
| | San Jose, CA | |
| Admin
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You know, it always seems that Australians are awake when I'm asleep. That clinches it– Learjet and the rest of Australia are the undead!
Eclipses are the only times when werewolves and werehawks can meet. See LadyHawke for details.
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Stephen the Friendly Skeptic
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10:54 am October 27, 2010
| Revenant
| | Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage" | |
| Lead Investigator | posts 1393 |
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So the "Auction King" episode with the Vampire Killing Kit aired last night. I came away with two things.
First…the show is dreadful. And when I say dreadful, I'm being extremely and uncharacteristically kind. As the show rolled on, I found myself hoping for a gas leak and then a massive explosion. Like I stated earlier in this thread…I like explosions. It would have certainly helped the show…
Second…everyone here knows that I really don't like to do this, but, I am calling Shenanigans! That's right, Shenanigans has been called.
When someone who owns an auction house wants to authenticate something, maybe it's not the best idea to go to your father, who also owns an auction house. There's just a hint of "conflicted interest." Or should I say stench of it. It's the equivalent of a car salesman stopping in the middle of sale and asking another car salesman to give his opinion on the used car. Guess what he's going to say? You think that used car is the best car on the lot? You better believe it. Same goes for this show.
Where did "daddy" get his very general information like the kit was probably made in the 1850's? No clue. He didn't state any source material, but he did say with a great deal of conviction…so it must be true. 
So, with daddy's blessing, the Vampire Killing Kit was authenticated and placed in auction. With that sort of vetting process I should take my rock that Bigfoot threw at me once. Should be a big seller. In fact, I have two of those rocks. Actually…I have a whole box of those rocks in my garage. Man…can't wait for the auction…I'm going to make a fortune! 
@Big Les – I'm wondering if you were able to see the show and what your thoughts were on it. Also, thinking that you're in England…kind of wondering if you knew anything and could add anything to this curious story on "Witch Bottles." And by the way, I really like your website. A lot to go through, but I'm enjoying it. Thanks again for the links to it.
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"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
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12:33 pm October 27, 2010
| hyacinth
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| Investigator | posts 122 |
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What I got out of the show is that having your own auction house is a license to print money . Charge the seller 20% and I saw a sign that they also charge the buyer 15% .
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