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Talking Across the Spectrum

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1:17 pm
November 1, 2008


Stephen

San Jose, CA

Admin

posts 589

One of the things I value on this site is the general tone of civility and respect. Some of us are true believers. Some of us are hardline skeptics. Most of us are somewhere in between. Yet we generally respect each others' positions and try to at least understand where each other is coming from.

I've never been on a ghost hunt, and I've never had an experience I couldn't explain without turning to the paranormal. However, thanks to this site, I'm looking to leave the armchair and enter the field.

The trouble is, last time I tried this, things didn't go too well. The conversation started out OK, but soon people in attendance started to raise anomaly after anomaly, and I tried to explain them all. Then, once we reached the Grant List, the mood started to darken. We parted before things collapsed entirely, but I got the impression that all I'd managed to do was convince these folks that skeptics are closed-minded jerks.

That's obviously not my goal. Honestly, my goal is to have a good time and exercise my critical thinking skills. If I can get someone else to start thinking critically as well, from any vantage point, bonus!

To keep from having a repeat of the last time, I've come up with three simple rules. These are for in-person interactions, not necessarily for here on Skeptical Viewer. Here they are:

1. Seek first to understand, then to be understood.

When one is in a group where the prevailing worldview doesn't match one's own, it's hard not to pipe up whenever you think someone's saying something wrong. Also a great way to get ignored. Listen. Ask questions– and not leading ones, either. Make a good attempt to understand that person's world view and how they got there.

2. Don't attack.

Sometimes it's hard to recognize when it's an appropriate forum to argue, and when it's appropriate to remain silent. I plan to make it known that I'm a skeptic, but not to jump in with my viewpoint unless someone asks me about it. Like any social group, that may change as I get to know people.

3. Don't try to explain everything.

That was one of the traps I fell into– I felt compelled to try to explain everything, which turns the conversation into a game of "Stump the Skeptic". Being a skeptic doesn't mean that I can explain everything– quite the opposite.

For me, the toughest thing to handle is talking about areas where I suspect deception was involved– the Grant List. Some of the members of local groups have met Grant. They don't think he'd lie. They get very emotional if I suggest it. I think that in most of those cases, I'd probably just direct them here.

I'd love some feedback.

Stephen the Friendly Skeptic

4:21 pm
November 1, 2008


Ruth

Guest

I am drawn to watching these shows on TV and draw a different conclusion each time. Some shows are realistic and others prompt complete skepticism, bordering on 'what the…?" Not long ago, I suppose one might have called me a non-believer, having had no experience at all. Then that all changed. This is how it happened.

We purchased a house three years ago from the trust of the decedent. The daughter was selling it on behalf of the trust, or so we thought. Strangely enough and without going into great detail, we never could get a project completed. It was as if the house did not want us. As time passed, we began to look deeper only to find that the seller had lied, and that there were additional deaths that occurred on the property. Namely that of her brother the year before her mother. He had died in the room I had used as an office and although not a violent death there were unsettling issues surrounding his death.

Moving forward up until the time we moved out we did not understand what was going on until we allowed a friend to stay on the property, in fact two different people at two different times. Both commented there were strange occurrences and both felt very uncomfortable there alone. That was when we decided to conduct a cleansing of sorts. Rather impromptu, we assembled a concoction of various herbs, candles, and incense. We walked throughout the house offering soothing words and asking for whatever was there to please leave. In one room, we both stood in awe as we saw a shadow pass across one wall and leave out the door. The next room we entered felt cold and in as much as nothing was seen it felt extremely uncomfortable to be in there. Then we entered what had been the office, and no one was prepared for what was about to happen. My friend, who was carrying the candles and herbs suddenly, was struck on one arm and everything fell to the ground. Strangely, the room went completely dark, candles went out, and nothing thankfully caught on fire. We then relit the candles and gained our composure. Placing the candles on the floor, we decided everything was safe since the candles were on a tray and left the room for several minutes. Do understand we were still a bit shaken by what had happened but very much in control. After returning to the room, which had windows wide open and a door removed we were shocked at the temperature change within the room. This was May in San Diego California and not an overly hot month at all. Best guess would say the room had increased by 40 degrees, if not more. I actually broke a sweat when I entered the room. In as much as I am unsure why I stayed within the room I then found myself watching this strange fire for almost an hour. Removing myself from what appeared to be an overly warm, almost hot room I returned to find an out of control flame, wicking up towards a far away curtain. My friend and I could not believe our eyes, no draft was present to cause this, and the room had taken on a most eerie glow. Before we could react, the fire flashed and became larger than life, yes almost life-size. Prior to this and for reason I cannot explain I had grabbed a fire extinguisher and brought it with me into the room, it was our savior.  Immediately after the fire was out the room cooled so quickly we sat and stared at one another while this took place not realizing the full extent of what had just happened. Our only response was to break out into full laughter and rejoice that we had not burned to a crisp. The calmness that came over the house after this was unexplainable. No longer was there a sense of uncertainty, tenseness or profound feeling we were not alone. NEVER and to this day can I explain what happened. All I know is that whatever was there was no longer angry or maybe had simply left the premises.

One thing I have not mentioned was the fact that I made a promise during the course of this, that we would uphold the decedents last wishes. Her daughter had intentionally taken and sold the house against the decedents last wishes. I made a promise that night to make that wrong a right. Give the house to the charity the woman had intended to give it to, essentially fight the daughter who had sold it illegally to return what she had taken from her mother. This has in no way been easy and we have struggled because of it, but as long as we keep our word this will come to an end someday. We have contacted state and federal organizations and try to keep the 'ghost' aspect to a minimum, not wanting people to cast a shadow of doubt we cannot explain. Put bluntly, this was a crime against another and although it took a turn that most would never understand, it was a crime of greed and ultimate misdeed. To say that those who have passed are not in control, think again. The woman who passed, that we now fight for was someone we never knew, but she made her presence so strong and her wishes so believable we could not turn our backs on her.

This is the short version and many have said, "Make a movie or write a book, this has happened some where else or will happen again to another." Yes…we know, but to get it off the ground and not lose sight of what the ultimate goal is, remains the most difficult position of all. Money and time seem not to be on our side.

In closing please allow me to say, no matter how old or how well you think you know someone, please convey your last wishes. Make sure that those you intend to bestow upon know how and what you are leaving behind. If you do not…I can guarantee a haunting will follow.

 

 

4:47 pm
November 1, 2008


Harry

Fort Mill, SC

Investigator

posts 60

Your intentions are good, Stephen,  and in a few cases it is possible to have a continuing dialog with persons with views directly opposed to your own. There is much everyone can gain from such situations.

I suspect your position is likely much like mine: no, I have not seen anything in the way of evidence to convince me ghosts and other paranormal phenomena are real, but I would welcome any reliable, objective evidence to show ghosts and the paranormal are real. And to have a true dialog, I would need to be paired with someone who believes ghosts and paranormal phenomena are real but is also willing to discount alleged hauntings and paranormal phenomena not supported by objective evidence (like, say, this season's episodes of GH).

But these situations are rare, mainly for the reason you mention: people get very emotional about their beliefs. To such people, you're "attacking" them when you are not in 100% agreement with them.

And we skeptics are just as bad as true believers. I've had too many people, including family members, swear to me they have seen a ghost or experienced paranormal phenomena to totally discount their claims. I happen to think they have misinterpreted something, or maybe were dreaming, or possibly hallucinating—–I've had a couple of hallucinatory experiences that, with a different world view, I would have thought paranormal. Maybe "quantum weirdness" works on a more macro level. Whatever it might be, I still haven't seen any evidence that a team of investigative plumbers can communicate with the dead via a K-II meter—-but, given an experiment with the right protocols and safeguards, I'd be willing to change my mind.

I wish you good luck in your efforts, Stephen. I applaud you for showing respect for believers and for not resorting to snarkiness and mockery in dealing with them. Most skeptics like to pride themselves on being more intelligent than average, but it's hardly intelligent to begin an attempt to change someone's mind with a personal insult!

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