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Taking science to the search for the paranormal

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8:24 pm
October 3, 2011


Nosfer

Rotaredom

Moderator

posts 2956

Well, some sort of science, anyway…needs a lot more thought to it, though.  A lot more thought.  They've gone down the quartz and granite garden path it seems.

http://www.abc.net.au/local/st…..326929.htm

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11:26 pm
October 3, 2011


Learjet

Australia

Lead Investigator

posts 1122

Some of the places mentioned are getting close to home.

Sounds like the same old same old ghost hunting pseudo-science to me.

OD'd on EMF

6:00 am
October 4, 2011


Verklagekasper

Investigator in Training

posts 25

Post edited 6:10 am – October 4, 2011 by Verklagekasper
Post edited 6:15 am – October 4, 2011 by Verklagekasper


Let's see what sort of science they took there…

 

"I decided that was a good time to go out and start experimenting, buying gear regarded as state of the art in this research field to see that whether or not we could make contact with the other side… While it's the specialised gear that makes recordings of paranormal activity possible…"

There is no gear in this research field that has been proven to detect ghosts or anything else paranormal, so there is no "state of the art". And preassuming the existence of the very thing whose existence you want to prove, ie. "the other side" or "paranormal activity", is not scientific.

 

"First the investigators have to work out who the ghost, if there is one, could be"


This does not help to prove a thing other than the researcher's bias to jump to the conclusion that, if there's something fishy going on, it must be a ghost, and it must be the ghost of somebody who lived/died there.

 

"For instance, while researching a pub in Childers, the group found that a man had died there in an accidental fall while fleeing a group he'd dobbed in for illicit gambling. Years later, on the anniversary of the death, a lightning strike took out the pub's poker machines"

 

And the point of this is…? That ghosts deal lightning strikes? Or that this coincidence was so unlikely that it must be paranormal? This would not only be be a non-sequitur; the coincidence isn't even all that unlikely:

Let m be the number of deaths that occured at a certain place over the course of years.

Let n be the number of unusual events (including rather mundane events like power failures) that happened later at this place.

Then the probability that at least one strange event happend on the same day a person died is:

1 minus the probability that none of the events happend on the same day as a person died

= 1 -[(365-m)/365]^n

So, let's say, you have 5 deaths and 20 unusual events related to a certain public place (over the course of centuries, this shouldn't be too unrealistic). Then the probability of any unusual event happening on the same day as a death is 0.24. That is, statistically, 2.4 out of 10 such places have these coincidences, without anything paranormal going on whatsoever.

Frankly, as you travel the country to investigate places, it is nearly inevitable to find places where unusual things happend on the same day a person died there.

 



 

"A digital audio recorder is regarded as one of the most important pieces of equipment in investigating," Darren says, "Because it can pick up voices we sometimes don't hear with our own ears."

 

There are ten thousands of audio engineers out there. None of them experienced such a thing that could not be explained by ordinary sources. And what about the multi-millions of people listening every day to radio or watching TV? There's a ton of electrical equipment involved on the way of a signal from the sending channel to the receiver. Yet, no ghostly voices. So, where is the proof for that claim?

 

"If we can prove that there was nobody else talking, that it wasn't me mumbling to myself for instance, then perhaps then we have caught something from the other side."

 



 

Or perhaps you caught a radio transmission or anythingl emitting electromagnetic signals. Or perhaps you caught an ambient sound crushed by software compression. Or perhaps you still just caught somebody of your crew mumbling, which is far harder to disprove than you may think.

 

"There is also full spectrum video, there is infrared video. You cannot use a normal video camera or digital camera, because you are not seeing the full light spectrum. Spirits can work outside the normal light range, where our eyes may not see."

 

Why not use a plate of cookies instead? There is no evidence that a full spectrum camera is more likely to help find a ghost than that.

 

"The investigators also use motion and vibration sensors, heat-detecting cameras and devices which seek out electromagnetic fields to build up a full picture of what's happening at the site."

 

And so on. Unfortunately, throwing in more and more equipment doesn't make research more and more scientific unless you have an idea what the equipment is actually measuring and how exactly that is related to the things you are investigating. They are just using more equipment to make it more likely that any of their tools will measure something "abnormal". Yeah, just throw in a ton of flashing and beeping boxes, and you most likely will get battery drain, whistling EMF-meters or whatever else you call "paranormal". You can make a TV-show out of that. Or at least an appearance in an article written by someone who is as clueless as you, for that matter. But not science.

8:40 am
October 4, 2011


Learjet

Australia

Lead Investigator

posts 1122

I bet they talk to flashlights and K2 meters too.

OD'd on EMF

10:20 am
October 4, 2011


Nosfer

Rotaredom

Moderator

posts 2956

And I bet the K2/flashlight is the one that initiates the conversation! Smile

"Blink…Blink…Blinkety-Blink-Blink…Blink…Bliiiiink"

('If there is anyone looking for us, point into the darkness and say "didjaseethat!?"')

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10:41 am
October 5, 2011


HollyDolly

Investigator

posts 194

I don't know if you ever watch Extranormal on Azteca America on Sunday nights.It's a spanish language version of Gh if you will. I' have seen them use  a K2Meter a few times, but unlike GH or some of these other people,they don't rely on it that much.They really  don't use thermals that much  or record many evps that i have noticed.

While they are willing to use some of the standard tools  GH and some others use to death, they also use a pyschic and shaman  when they go to these haunted places in Mexico and elsewhere.

Maybe they feel that medium types are better for ghost contacts. And why not, I don't see where all the high tech gear is getting any of these others any closer to an answer.

7:16 am
October 6, 2011


Verklagekasper

Investigator in Training

posts 25

If psychics and shamans were the only option to high tech gear, I'd stick with the high tech gear. Or with the plate of cookies…

 

What I'd really like to see was a ghost show where
investigations take place in broad daylight. No blurry cam pictures, no
EMF meters, no ghost boxes nor any other BS-tools that produce ambiguous
results by design. Plus, every crew member saying "Did you see/hear that?" while there is nothing to see or hear would instantly get fired.

8:23 am
October 6, 2011


Nosfer

Rotaredom

Moderator

posts 2956

Verklagekasper said:

What I'd really like to see was a ghost show where investigations take place in broad daylight. No blurry cam pictures, no EMF meters, no ghost boxes nor any other BS-tools that produce ambiguous results by design. Plus, every crew member saying "Did you see/hear that?" while there is nothing to see or hear would instantly get fired.


 

A night-time investigation to supplement the daytime would be fine.  But I want to see continuous shots and daytime comparisons of the same areas.  I don't want a 0.3 second flash of a camera in one direction and then the next while the investigator points in a third direction saying he sees something.

I guess ideally I'd like to see a room covered with multiple camera angles such that every camera shows at least one other camera in its viewing area.  Entire room covered.  Cameras left there in both daytime AND night time for multiple nights.  Continuous.  Time stamps.  And an analog clock with second hand visible in each camera view.

The show would last four episodes before it got yanked for being "BOOORRRRRRINNNGGG"

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8:35 am
October 6, 2011


Learjet

Australia

Lead Investigator

posts 1122

Did someone mention cookies? I'm in. Cool

I'd still like to examine a place's EM fields, but not with just a K2 meter.

OD'd on EMF

11:24 am
October 6, 2011


Nosfer

Rotaredom

Moderator

posts 2956

Learjet said:

Did someone mention cookies? I'm in. Cool

I'd still like to examine a place's EM fields, but not with just a K2 meter.


 

Head perks up…cookies? 

Not just a K2?  Come on, where's your sense of adventure?  Where's your willingness to continue in a tradition of meaningless blinks?  Course, with the economy going the way it has been it's getting more and more difficult to afford the quarter to keep the darn thing on!  I hear you, let's get some scopes set up…and for more than just 3 seconds while going on in a monotone about fear cages.

Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.

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