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2:36 am
May 10, 2009


pado

pado

Investigator in Training

posts 6

I don't know if this is the right place to post this message, but I thought I would give it a shot. I, along with a few others, had some paranormal experiences many years ago in San Luis Obispo, CA, and was wondering if anyone would be interested in investigating them. I've tried contacting a number of ghost investigating agencies, but noone seems to be interested even though it seemed to be the real thing. Any ideas?

4:30 am
May 10, 2009


MissMissy

LA County, CA

Investigator

posts 51

Can you gove a little bit of a background the experience? Sometimes if you don't word it properly to them they can blow it off as a nothing. I am not saying it's a nothing but just saying that they may not be felling you. If you have a legit case though be happy these clowns didn't become involved. A reputable group wouldn't toss someone in need to the side just because the situation isn't "sexy" enough for them.

Good luckLaughing

If the truth is out there than why haven't I found it yet?

1:05 pm
May 10, 2009


Revenant

Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage"

Lead Investigator

posts 1393

Pado, my friend, you have made my day and I thank you for it.

Someone, finally, coming to a bunch of skeptics for some answers about the paranormal.  Sign of the apocalypse?  Maybe…  Laughing

Like MissMissy said, we need as much background as possible.  The more details that we have, the better.  Perhaps there are events that we can explain without ever having to leave our keyboards.  Never know.  So list as many facts as you can, even if you think they don't matter.

After that, we'll know what we're dealing with.  In the meantime, I'll look at some paranormal investigatory teams around that area for you.  Don't get your hopes up though.  I've personally only found a few that I've liked and they are no where near your location.  But, you never know.  I look forward to hearing about your experiences.

"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer

7:59 am
May 20, 2009


pado

pado

Investigator in Training

posts 6

Sorry for not replying sooner, but I had computer problems. Upon thinking more about my experiences, I guess I can understand why it wouldn't seem attractive to investigate the place where they happened. I didn't really see anything or hear anything. Something happened but I'm not sure if you could capture it on video. Okay, so here's my story:

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In September of 1993, I moved into Tower 8 of the residence hall Yosemite at Cal Poly San Luis Obispo. Late one night, after living there about two months, I got a phone call. A young woman on the other end asked to speak to the former resident of the room not realizing that he had moved out. We began talking and after a while, out of nowhere, she asked me if the "ghosts in the room" were bothering me. Suddenly, out of nowhere, I saw an image of myself (in my head) violently waking up, trying to get up and scream, but being paralyzed like I was being held down, and then falling back to sleep. Where the hell did that come from? I thought. After a few seconds, I regained my composure and asked her what had made her ask me about ghosts. She said that when she had visited the tower the year before she had heard rumors from the residents about ghosts. At first I actually did nothing about it. Then, about two months later, I think it was in January of 1994, I had a similar experience but this time I remembered it the next day. I was sleeping when suddenly I woke up clenching at a terrible pain in my chest with my two hands. I was almost paralyzed: I couldn't sit up nor no sound escaped from my mouth and then I fell back asleep. After that experience, I decided to do a little investigating. A guy upstairs had lived in the dorm the year before so I went up to talk to him, to see if he knew anything. I still didn't know what to think so I didn't tell him much; I just asked if he had heard about any strange happenings. He said "yes," but he didn't know much since he had moved in late during the previous school year. But he did tell me that he knew someone who might know more. He called a girl who had lived in the hall the year before and put me on the phone. Again, I did not tell her what had happened to me—just that I was wondering if anything strange had happened while she was living there. She told me she had lived on the second floor in a room very close to mine and one night she woke up and the exact same thing happened to her–she tried to scream, couldn't, was unable to move, and fell back to sleep. The only difference in her story was that her roommate had been in the room at the time of the event. She could see her roommate sitting at the desk in front of her but she couldn't do anything to alert her. I never said what had happened to me. I just thanked her for her time and hung up. I later contacted the former resident of my room and he told me he had had a similar experience on the couch of the common area on the second floor. The icing on the cake was about six months later, later in the summer of 1994. I was at a camp for students who were training to be resident advisors. One night a large group of us were sitting around a campfire telling ghost stories. When it grew quiet, I decided to tell my story. I told the story, and a hush fell over the group. Then, to my right, a few people away, an Asian-American stood up and said that he had had a similar experience in the same tower two years earlier, but on the first floor. That's the whole thing. I've always thought it would be interesting to do a thorough investigation of the tower. There's definitely something strange about different people having similar experiences. And, truthfully, I really didn't believe in ghosts until this experience. Now I'm not so sure.

9:50 am
May 20, 2009


bullerspoke

Sweden

Investigator

posts 101

The events you describe pado, seem to be hypnagogic and hypnapompic experiences, mainly sleep paralysis. It's scary, however not that uncommon (simply put the brain misfires sometimes) but definitely not paranormal. 

I personally experience hypnagogic and hypnapompic experiences, mainly auditory (hearing voices and sounds) and some EHS and hypnic jerks. Some have visual experiences and some a bit of everything. And again, it can be scary and disconcerting and it's easy to interpret as paranormal, but isn't. 

Here are a link to the wikipedia article on the phenomena, which is pretty good and has some good links: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnagogia

This does not of course mean there might no be paranormal phenomena in play, of that we do not know, but your experiences do fit the bill on hypnagogia and until there is some evidence of the contrary or other experiences that indicate that, there is no need to reach for paranormal explanations.

Some on this board wrote in a thread that any experiences within 10 ft. of the bed should be taken with buckets of salt and I think that is good groundrule and wise approach. Our mind do play tricks on us and when we are tired or on the brink of sleep that is truer then ever.

And even when not tired, the night makes things different. Anyone who has experienced the wolf-hour knows that the world can seem a strange place, or a place for strange things, at times. But it's usually our mind and brain who is the home of the strange and weird…

When in doubt… figure it out!

12:50 pm
May 20, 2009


Revenant

Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage"

Lead Investigator

posts 1393

bullerspoke said:

Here are a link to the wikipedia article on the phenomena, which is pretty good and has some good links: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnagogia


Funny that you mention this.  I just wrote something about that last night in fact.  Hopefully, you guys will see it soon.

Pado, a very curious story.  I have to agree with Bullerspoke's assement.  Although, quite odd to have a very similar experience happen to several people in different locations of the same building.  To account for multiple events, the first thing that sprang to mind was perhaps a natural gas leak or carbon monoxide.  Since this happened 15 years, I guess no need to check for it now.  Yet, something like that could possibly explain it as well.

I can now see why paranormal investigators aren't interested in the case.  The case does not contain the "conventional" signs of a haunting.  And since the events happened so long ago, they may feel that if anything of a paranormal nature was happening, it may not currently be happening.

However, I'll take a look around and see if any paranormal groups in your area have shown interest in this type of thing in their past cases.  Never know.

"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer

1:46 am
May 21, 2009


bullerspoke

Sweden

Investigator

posts 101

Well, I find carbon monoxide or natural gas to be a stretch, but not impossible. But personally I think it is all psychology and mistaking correlation with causation. First off, from what I gather it was a dorm, where I suspect many students have slept and studied during the years. And as I wrote hypnagogic and hypnapmompic experiences are not that uncommon, so it is likely multiple people who once slept in that dorm has had one. 

And then when the stories gets around people start to interpret the dorm as the cause rather than then brain of the individuals involved. However I do believe that any place with many people sleeping in them over a long period of time, such as a dorm or an apartment building would have a similar phenomena. 

That's why I really don't find multiple reports of what is classic hypnagogic experiences much of an indication of a paranormal phenomena being in play. For that I need to have some other experiences or incidents occur; voices,  apparitions, poltergeist activity or anything that does not involve the bed. Something more tangible, over time and in multiple events.

Although it was scary for those who had the experiences, there is no indication that it was more than a good campfire story. Noone seemed distressed or in need of any help, other than sharing the story and thereby handling it, and furthermost realising they are not alone with it.

In the end, all we have is personal experiences form quite some time ago, told and retold and being subject to others experiences, which makes it impossible to really know what actually happened. And since the teller does not seem to be distressed or in need of help now there is no cause for any investigation. Which explains the lack of interest from paranormal investigators.

It also does concern me that you pado feel the need for paranormal investigation, since that leads me to believe you want it to be a haunting rather than openly and unbiased take a look at the events. If you want it ot be a haunting of course you interpret it as paranormal. Confirmation bias does seem to be at play here.

Lastly, and this is worth pointing out, pados experience is a perfect fit for hypnagogia, it is about as classic and on the mark as it can get. That other people had the same experience proves nothing else than that hypnagogia exists and is a proven phenomena with certain characteristics and that it is not that uncommon. In fact, pados story ends up being a strong evidence for scientific explanations to strange experiences  rather than paranormal explanations.

Edit: Found this quote by the philosopher Francis Bacon which should be pondered in connection with presumed paranormal events (not least the one in this thread): "The general root of superstition is that men observe when things hit, and not when they miss; and commit to memory the one, and forget and pass over the other." 

When in doubt… figure it out!

3:50 am
May 21, 2009


dr_peter_venkman

Rochester, NY

Investigator

posts 99

pado,

I'm going to second bullerspoke's diagnosis of sleep paralysis. I had the same type of experience in college as well. For me it followed a pattern. If I broke out of a "normal" sleep pattern too far, I would have these types of dreams. I found that I had dreams of being paralyzed when I tried to grab a quick nap too soon after waking up for the night. It went like this: late night, early class, back to the dorm, power nap, nasty dream. My own personal theory is that these dreams are related to a disruption in the sleep cycle. Since college is usually one long disruption, many students experience this.

I rarely have these now but I have had a few over the years since college. In every case, I could point to a ill-timed nap as the probably cause.

Hee hee hee! "Get her!" That was your whole plan, huh, "get her." Very scientific.

3:55 am
May 21, 2009


Learjet

Australia

Lead Investigator

posts 1122

I agree, classic sleep paralysis. I've had this happen to me in similar form several times.

OD'd on EMF

7:22 am
May 21, 2009


Hannah

Texas

Lead Investigator

posts 361

dr_peter_venkman said:

pado,

I'm going to second bullerspoke's diagnosis of sleep paralysis. I had the same type of experience in college as well. For me it followed a pattern. If I broke out of a "normal" sleep pattern too far, I would have these types of dreams. I found that I had dreams of being paralyzed when I tried to grab a quick nap too soon after waking up for the night. It went like this: late night, early class, back to the dorm, power nap, nasty dream. My own personal theory is that these dreams are related to a disruption in the sleep cycle. Since college is usually one long disruption, many students experience this.

I rarely have these now but I have had a few over the years since college. In every case, I could point to a ill-timed nap as the probably cause.


I am going to chime in here also on the sleep paralysis disgnosis.  I have found that my experiences happen when I am overtired, which would apply to Dr. Venkman's theory of a disrupted sleep cycle. 

10:44 am
May 21, 2009


pado

pado

Investigator in Training

posts 6

It's an interesting possibility. I did some reading about it and I see the similarities. But I'm not totally convinced. The only reason I connected my experience to paranormal activity is because I had no idea that there was such a thing as sleep paralysis and it seemed too bizarre of an experience for me to have any other explanation. I mean, the fact that people were experiencing the same exact thing to a tee says to me that we were all being influenced by the same exact thing. But what that was I have no idea, whether it was supernatural or natural. However, I really find it hard to believe that we all just experienced sleep paralysis around this place for no other reason other than our sleep cycles had been disrupted. That seems more farfetched to me.

2:35 pm
May 21, 2009


Bobarino

Valencia, CA

Investigator

posts 181

Hi Pado,

Thanks for sharing.  I obviously don't know for sure what happened, but one thing that I personally do is look to "real world" explanations first.   It's not that I do not beleive in the paranormal.  It is only that the real world is proven to exist, the paranormal to date has not been proven to exist.

So when reading about your experience, first thing I thought of was Sleep Paralasis as well.  I too have had that happen to me, and as others it happened more so when in my college years. 

It IS strange however that there were so many in your dorm that had the same experience.   It could be attributed to the college lifestyle, and probably a lot of students having similarly irregular sleep patterns.  There could be other explanations as well.  Perhaps something with the building.  Maybe some sort of gas or chemical in the paint or building construction?   I would say fear cage but that too is an unproven theory.  ::cough::  But even so there are many possible real world explations, even more than what I listed. 

I would be interested to hear if someone ever does investigate the building to see what they find. 

Bobarino

I've found that being AWESOME is a full time job…

9:24 am
May 22, 2009


pado

pado

Investigator in Training

posts 6

Like I said, I'm not convinced of the paranormal–it was just one of the strangest things that ever happened to me. I had and have never had anything like it happen to me before. But when I look at the whole story, another thing that I find interesting is that I had a repressed memory burst (and I thought long and hard as to what verb to use here because the memory didn't just rise to the surface; it felt like what I imagine a bubble bursting feels like) onto my consciousness at the question, "So, are the ghosts bothering you?" Why my mind would automatically associate this possible episode of sleep paralysis with ghosts is strange. The only thing that comes to my mind in trying to rationalize it is that the event seemed unexplainable, so maybe my mind associated ghosts with the unexplainable and connected the two. But I have never been a believer in ghosts, so it seems strange that I would make this connection if there wasn't any. I am a firm believer in intuitive knowledge, so maybe that's why I have always associated the whole thing with ghosts and the paranormal. In my life, I've had two other episodes similar to this memory burst. The first one was when I was 23 and I was watching the film The Fly. There's a scene in which a dog is used as a guinea pig in a teleportation experiment and the dog comes out all mangled and deformed when he rematerializes. Upon seeing the deformed, dying dog, something clicked in my mind and the memory of my dead dog burst open in my head. For 15 torturous minutes, I cried harder than I had ever cried before. When I was through, I realized that the way my mom had put the dog to sleep (by taking him to the vet and only saying the dog was "gone" when she returned) had left me with a reservior of sadness inside me that had never been relieved. So here it was finally gushing out by the image of this dog. The point here is that there was a connection between the outside stimulus (in this case the dog) and my reaction (the outpouring of emotion for my dog). So what was the connection between a question about ghosts and the repressed memory? I don't know, but my mind seemed to think there was one. My other memory burst was not so much an outpouring from a memory, but an image that burst open in my head. This image seemed to come from nowhere. There was no stimulus, just an image, and because of the lack of a stimulus it scared the hell out of me. It was about ten years ago: I was at the gym just opening my locker to get a towel so I could shower when boom, out of nowhere, I saw my father lying on a table, surrounded by doctors, being operated on. And then just like that the image was gone. I thought it was strange, but I didn't know what to make of it, so I didn't give it much thought until I got home that night and read an email from my sister telling me not to worry, dad was fine, he just had a little bit of surgery that day, but he was going to be alright. No one had said anything to me about it because they didn't want me to worry. But somehow I had already gotten the message. This is why I take some stock in the idea of the paranormal being involved in the dormitory. But you guys have definitely given me a new perspective on the matter, and I understand now also why ghost hunters might not be interested in it, and I will always keep that in mind. I still would love to do some sort of investigation on that place just to see if anything turns up. Especially about the history of the place. I guess I will have to do it myself one day.

1:11 pm
May 22, 2009


Hannah

Texas

Lead Investigator

posts 361

You have had some very interesting experiences prado.  It is odd I will admit that so many students at that time related similar experiences. 

Since the towers still house students http://yosemite.calpoly.edu/  perhaps as an alumni you could call/email and see if the RA has heard anything?  

Cal Poly Alumni  http://www.alumni.calpoly.edu/ 

This page covers my Cal Poly days. The earliest crowd was Yosemite Tower 8, my freshman year. If you used to know me, why not email me … Jim Schrempp and say hello.http://www.majorityvoters.org/about_me/calpolylist.htm

Looks as though he was there maybe a decade or so before you, has active homepage and appears talkative. . .might be worth an email. 

12:28 am
May 23, 2009


pado

pado

Investigator in Training

posts 6

Okay, so I decided to do a tiny investigation myself (thanks to Hannah) and contact someone in the tower I lived in to find out if they know anything or if there has been any talk about strange phenomena there. Here's the message I sent:

Hi…,
From what I can read online, you're blah, blah. I lived there and was president of tower 8 about 15 years ago. Wooo, it's been a long time. I can't believe how long. Hey, I just wanted to ask you one question: since living in tower 8, have any strange things happened to you or anyone you know there? I know it's a strange question, but I had a few weird experiences there and I know several others did, too, and I was wondering if these things had continued into the present. I used to live on the second floor in the room closest to the courtyard on the end. Recently, I've been talking about it with others and they basically think I'm crazy, but I swear to God something happened–I just don't know what or why. Well, let me know if you know of anything. Or maybe you could ask around a bit if you don't know anything? Eh, I'm sure you're busy, but it could be interesting if you find something out. Let me know. My email address is …. Thanks!

So now I'm just going to wait and see if there's a response. I'm glad you guys got me to do this. This could be interesting.

4:45 am
May 23, 2009


dr_peter_venkman

Rochester, NY

Investigator

posts 99

pado said:

However, I really find it hard to believe that we all just experienced sleep paralysis around this place for no other reason other than our sleep cycles had been disrupted. That seems more farfetched to me.


I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the physical location as a cause. The people that experienced this had a lot more in common than just the place. Same age range, similar stresses on their systems, bad sleep habits, alcohol consumption, etc. Ah college. I miss those years.

Hee hee hee! "Get her!" That was your whole plan, huh, "get her." Very scientific.

11:45 am
May 23, 2009


bullerspoke

Sweden

Investigator

posts 101

As dr_peter_wenkman points out and as I stated earlier let's not confuse matters, by interpreting correlation as causation.

I quote myself: "However I do believe that any place with many people sleeping in them over a long period of time, such as a dorm or an apartment building would have a similar phenomena. "

Hypnagogia is fairly common, and when lots of people sleep in the same building it is not strange that a number of them have hypnagogic experiences. I'd bet the same thing has happened in the apartment building I live in, I know for sure I have had hypnagogic experiences and I'm sure some of my recent neighbours or previous neighbours have had the same. And I'm certain if I polled them, they would bring up similar stories to the ones pado heard.

If a number of people living in a building with many people living there have luck in games, does that mean the house is a lucky charm? No. Superstition we'd call that. I can't see no difference with hypnagogia in pado's case.

And as for hypnagogia being farfetched, well, if you really want it be paranormal it is, confirmation bias that is called. Contrary to what you seem to think hypnagogia is a well-known, proven phenomena with plenty of research done on it and above that fairly common. Just because you didn't know of it, doesn't mean it's obscure. Every serious scientist, psychologist and doctor who works with sleep disruptions knows of it and on a daily basis meet people who have hypnagogic experiences.

So what are you gonna go for, a proven phenomena backed up by stringent science or your own subjective feelings (and desires)?

The reason I hammer the subject is because there is a number of cases of people in the paranormal field who has misinterpreted hypnagogic experiences as paranormal and subsequently made a career out of it. Debbie Constantino for one. And that is downright sad, firstly becasue they fool themselves but secondly because they fool others and thirdly because it makes the paranormal field a joke, filled with self-serving people who can't distinguish black from white. Which is a big disservice to any actual paranormal phenomena out there and downright disrespectful to the same.

It bugs me that pado can't accept her experience was natural and common one, but keeps grabbing for straws. Admitting to oneself one probably did not have a paranormal experience might be sad or boring, but it does not mean paranormal phenomena don't exist, just that you haven't experienced them. Yet. 

I have had experiences that others would have interpreted as paranormal, but that I due to critical thinking and knowledge know have natural explanations. Does that make my life boring? Hell no. Quite the opposite, because it makes me vigilant to experiences and makes me see what others don't see or simply ignore. And furthermost, it reinforces the wondrous nature of the universe.

When in doubt… figure it out!

10:19 pm
May 23, 2009


pado

pado

Investigator in Training

posts 6

Okay, I'm starting to accept it. It's not easy after all these years. So what causes this sleep paralysis? Is it only the disruption of your sleeping cycle?

4:45 am
May 24, 2009


dr_peter_venkman

Rochester, NY

Investigator

posts 99

pado said:

Okay, I'm starting to accept it. It's not easy after all these years. So what causes this sleep paralysis? Is it only the disruption of your sleeping cycle?


Pado,

The sleep cycle theory I mentioned is based on personal observations of my own experiences. The wikipedia link (from above) states: "This happens when the REM atonia sets in sooner than usual, before the person is fully asleep, or persists longer than usual, after the person has (in other respects) fully awoken."

I'm not sure why this happens to me when I nap at the wrong time. I can tell you that it was so repeatable that I intentionally avoid taking naps in the early part of the day no matter how tired I am.

Hee hee hee! "Get her!" That was your whole plan, huh, "get her." Very scientific.

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