The Forum [is where Ancient Roman skeptics hang out.]

Current User: Guest Login Register
Please consider registering


Lost Your Password?

Could Sound be a Major factor in Ghost Experiences?

Reply to Post
UserPost

10:45 am
March 17, 2011


Skooter

Investigator

posts 130

I know cracked isn't the most trust worthy site on the planet but I find is usually trust worthy enough to believe what they state as fact are actually true. I found this article very interesting. I have always heard about how electricity can cause bad/sick feelings or may cause some hypersensitive people to almost freak out, but I never heard of sound doing the same thing. I would really like one of these shows (ha!) to think about this as an alternative to just electromagnetic variables. The second I ever hear anyone say "out of the corner of my eye" you might as well just throw it out. I have seen some crazy things "out of the corner of my eye", but not once ever looked them in the face.

 

http://www.cracked.com/article…..tings.html

In 3……2……1……!!!!

10:54 am
March 17, 2011


Nosfer

Rotaredom

Moderator

posts 2954

Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.

11:33 pm
March 17, 2011


Stephen

San Jose, CA

Admin

posts 589

Post edited 12:58 am – March 18, 2011 by Stephen


As online humor sites go, Cracked is a relatively solid source of information.

 

I talked about infrasound (my absolute favorite ghostly explanation) in this podcast here. The funny thing about infrasound is that it's actually proven (ish) to cause most of the symptoms that EMF is alleged, without valid evidence, to cause.

Stephen the Friendly Skeptic

12:54 pm
March 18, 2011


Skooter

Investigator

posts 130

Yeah the EMF thing is really starting to annoy me. "The majority of provocation trials to date have found that self-described sufferers of electromagnetic hypersensitivity are unable to distinguish between exposure to real and fake electromagnetic fields," it's sad that a simple google search puts the whole theory in beyond serious doubt.

If this was fully true, these people would feel sick almost everyday of their lives with the amount of varying fields all over everyday life. Especially if a simple set of running wires can make people ill and feel scare. I am sure there are people who are sensitive to electronics but it shouldn't be used as an explination for the "ghostly feelings" everytime there are some EMF readings.

That doesn't even include the theory that ghosts carry with them and EMF. To actually even make it a legit theory they would need to conduct repeatable experiments with it, having it constantly being used to answer a question without any deviation. The "yes" for two blinks or "no" for one blink is the worst of them all. Half the time in the middle of the question it'll flicker a couple times and its, 'oh look, its communicating back yes', GHI had a couple of those moments where it was just ridiculous.

I just wish these people could do some easy research and actually admit, well we were wrong. Unfortunatly, I don't think the EMF detector is going anywhere. Looks like I should stick with Psychic Kids

In 3……2……1……!!!!

2:14 pm
March 18, 2011


Nosfer

Rotaredom

Moderator

posts 2954

Skooter said:

 The "yes" for two blinks or "no" for one blink is the worst of them all. Half the time in the middle of the question it'll flicker a couple times and its, 'oh look, its communicating back yes', GHI had a couple of those moments where it was just ridiculous.


 

The method itself isn't bad and certainly isn't "the worse of them all" although I prefer designating one meter "yes" and another "no".  The problem, like most of their theories and experiments, is the interpretation of results and how they conduct the experiment in the first place. 

I don't think they use that method that you've described, though.  They DO use one that's worse where they have the potential of having nothing happen being interpreted as a response.  Light it up for "yes" (and no instruction for what to do for "no") thus they jump to the conclusion (after a lighting up) that a subsequent non-lighting up of the meter to the next question means "no"

Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.

4:55 pm
March 18, 2011


Revenant

Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage"

Lead Investigator

posts 1393

Post edited 4:55 pm – March 18, 2011 by Revenant


Skooter said:

I have always heard about how electricity can cause bad/sick feelings or may cause some hypersensitive people to almost freak out, but I never heard of sound doing the same thing.


 Both Stephen and Nosfer focused on infrasound, something that occurs naturally.  But as for  sound "causing bad/sick feelings"…let's not forget to mention the intentional sources, such as acoustic weapons.  The US military is very interested in such things as it provides a non-lethal option in particular situations.  This site just touches upon it:

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-a…..eapons.htm

I've seen quite convincing demonstrations of some advanced weaponary of this nature.  Quite effective…

"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer

5:04 pm
March 18, 2011


Nosfer

Rotaredom

Moderator

posts 2954

And sound has long been used in psyops.  Vietnam.  Waco.  Directed at Noriega when he was holed up, etc.  They do quite well in some stores just playing some of the garbage they do over the audio system.  I guess those would be unintentional sources that cause bad/sick feelings to some people Laugh

Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.

8:46 pm
March 18, 2011


Axel Olrik

Investigator

posts 184

Post edited 8:53 pm – March 18, 2011 by Axel Olrik
Post edited 8:55 pm – March 18, 2011 by Axel Olrik


Nosfer said:  And sound has long been used in psyops

That reminds me of the Mythbusters' infamous "brown note" episode.

But the whole topic also reminded me of one of the paranormal shows (GH?) that visited the Edinburgh Vaults.  In it they referred to a professor who had investigated whether the perception of an environment as "gloomy" or "sinister" might trigger a paranormal experience.

It was Dr. Richard Wiseman and his site references infrasound and geomagnitism as well:

 http://www.richardwiseman.com/…..hosts.html

 

 

 

1:02 pm
March 20, 2011


Oubliette

Igloo in NJ

Lead Investigator

posts 574

Post edited 1:08 pm – March 20, 2011 by Oubliette


I have been a fan of Prof. Wiseman for many years now.  Many thanks for the link above.  He is quite the skeptic when it comes to ghosts.  However, he is intensely interested in the psychological aspects of the phenomenon.

Being familiar with his work in the Edinburgh Vaults, and knowing that something occurred there that he can't quite figure out, just ups the ante for me as far as something going on that can be called a haunting.  The answer may lie in the brains of our ancestors and thus passed down to us re: certain environments evincing fear responses. 

In the Vaults (and covered more in an article I just can't find at the moment), the rooms that correspond to reported activity, both by the general public and his test subjects, seem to be wide, with low ceilings.  Is it the similarity to an unknown cave that produces the odd perceptions?

However, this may be of interest regarding that experiment:

***************************

Wiseman himself said afterwards: "The events that have been taking place in the vaults over the

last 10 days are much more extreme than we expected"

In true scientific style, the tests were distributed between vaults with a reputation for

being haunted and those with no such background. Although the subjects – and even

Wiseman himself – were unaware

which was which, they reported anomolous experiences far more frequently in the "haunted"

chambers.

Wiseman remains a skeptic about the existence of ghosts, but the results still impressed

him:

"Had the public experiences been randomly distributed between the vaults then you really

couldn't conclude anything, what you can conclude is that there is something going on in

some sense, that these vaults are in some senses producing an experience.

"That's why I think scientists can be quite excited about this, because suddenly there's

an effect to work with, something to untangle that is a little bit of a mystery."

So science hasn't proved the existence of ghosts and it hasn't told us exactly what

happens in the ancient depths of Edinburgh Castle. But it has shown us that

something strange really is happening.

External Links:

http://www.wyrdology.com/edinb…..seman.html

*****************************

Of much interest to me also is the theory of low-frequency sound waves, sometimes coming from quite a long distance away, that can produce audio and visual hallucinations.  This was covered in a documentary where actual physicists (as opposed to paranormal "experts" who go around waving equipment they don't understand) were investigating a supposedly haunted place and found that it was receiving these waves from an unknown source.  In any case, it sounds as valid as the EM theory is made out to be.

The other article discussing Wiseman's Edinburg experiment spoke of an odd occurence: a participant (all of them had no knowledge beforehand of the Vaults and their activity) claimed to have seen an apparition of a man in the same room where "leather apron", who was I believe a cobbler, has been sighted numerous times.  How to explain this?

What really puzzles me is the Covenanter's Graveyard and the Black Mausoleum of Bloody George MacKenzie.  Here we have activity that can actually be traced to a particular event and year.  It even resulted in the gates being locked by the City Council due to a number of people becoming ill or physically hurt.  Now one can only get in via a tour group.  But that's another post altogether!

 

If 50 million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.
Anatole France

1:42 pm
March 20, 2011


Nosfer

Rotaredom

Moderator

posts 2954

Oubliette said:

The answer may lie in the brains of our ancestors and thus passed down to us re: certain environments evincing fear responses. 


 

That's something I've wondered about for a long time.  Can memories be inherited (ie passed down)?  Is it just the empty gray matter or do we also get some of the memories in it…what ARE memories, etc. 

In that vein is something brought up here in the Feral Dogs thread (Post #29):

http://www.skepticalviewer.com…..gs/page-2/

 

Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.

8:27 pm
March 20, 2011


Skooter

Investigator

posts 130

Nosfer said:

Skooter said:

 The "yes" for two blinks or "no" for one blink is the worst of them all. Half the time in the middle of the question it'll flicker a couple times and its, 'oh look, its communicating back yes', GHI had a couple of those moments where it was just ridiculous.


 

The method itself isn't bad and certainly isn't "the worse of them all" although I prefer designating one meter "yes" and another "no".  The problem, like most of their theories and experiments, is the interpretation of results and how they conduct the experiment in the first place. 

I don't think they use that method that you've described, though.  They DO use one that's worse where they have the potential of having nothing happen being interpreted as a response.  Light it up for "yes" (and no instruction for what to do for "no") thus they jump to the conclusion (after a lighting up) that a subsequent non-lighting up of the meter to the next question means "no"



here is an example and idk if this editing trick was caught before. The two readings do look identical in every way. 

In 3……2……1……!!!!

8:35 pm
March 20, 2011


Nosfer

Rotaredom

Moderator

posts 2954

Yes, this has been caught before, and there have been a number of other instances of problems like this with the K2 and the Flashlight.

My point was exactly that…HOW they do it, show it, and interpret it is bad.  A two blinks "yes" one blink "no" COULD be a good method, but even the best methods fall apart when you are at the mercy of editing and showmanship that kills anything remotely related to a scientific method.  Don't blame the method, blame the investigators.

Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.

8:55 pm
March 20, 2011


Skooter

Investigator

posts 130

It was more to the point of you saying they don't use the method I described. I agree it could certainly be a good method if it was done properly. Also what do they count as an official blink? One light? Three lights? all of them? It's just sad that its just the same over and over and over and people love it

In 3……2……1……!!!!

8:14 am
March 21, 2011


Nosfer

Rotaredom

Moderator

posts 2954

This was the first time they used the K2 (this was introduced by Fleming here and it was Chris that pretty much ran the show in this episode) There were several problems with this episode besides just the repeated K2 footage.  Once they started the K2 conversations on their own, it was for the most part "make this device light up for yes"  There may have been a few occasions where they tried the number of blinks but that got too difficult for them probably. 

I don't think it really matters what they consider as a blink because there is no set standard that they have defined for us and they vary it at will and to suit their findings. 

Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.

Reply to Post


Reply to Topic:
Could Sound be a Major factor in Ghost Experiences?

Guest Name (Required):

Guest Email (Required):

Smileys
Confused Cool Cry Embarassed Frown Kiss Laugh Smile Surprised Wink Yell
Post New Reply

Guest URL (required)

Math Required!
What is the sum of:
4 + 5
   



Permalink Print
Copyright 2010 SkepticalViewer.com - The Ghost Hunters Fansite for Skeptics