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9:58 am November 4, 2009
| The Doctor
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| Lead Investigator | posts 488 |
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One of GHA's new arrivals is Heathyr, a self-described skeptical medium.
Now I believe in Elephants, yet I would be skeptical if you said you had one in your home.
This stems from my limited knowledge of the nature of the animal, yet that knowledge appears to be much more expansive then the knowledge even experts in the paranormal field have of the entities they are presuming to be skeptical of.
If you believe in something with no concrete facts or even any group concensus about the nature of that something, by what yardstick can you measure the accuracy of anothers description ?
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10:04 am November 4, 2009
| Nosfer
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I put this in the same lines of what would happen if Ghosts were proven…it doesn't necessarily mean I'm still going to believe every ghost story out there (like your elephants) People seem to think that being skeptical and accepting the paranormal/supernatural/ghosts/what have you are two diametrically opposed points of view. Every medium, ghost hunter, ghost believer, psychic, and voter SHOULD be skeptical.
So YES, a medium can be a skeptic in my opinion and there is no conflict that should arise from this.
I can have incidents occur to me which extend beyond the realm of coincidence yet still question when they happen to others (and even to me, myself) I would be remiss NOT to.
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11:07 am November 4, 2009
| The Doctor
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| Lead Investigator | posts 488 |
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Nosfer said:
So YES, a medium can be a skeptic in my opinion and there is no conflict that should arise from this.
I can have incidents occur to me which extend beyond the realm of coincidence yet still question when they happen to others (and even to me, myself) I would be remiss NOT to.
My concern is that there is no valid criteria to cause one to be skeptical -
If for example, someone were to say they saw a flying Elephant down the street, my skeptisim would be raised as it's generally accepted that elephants do not fly.
But in the realm of the paranormal, it appears there are NO boundaries beyond which one can be reasonably assured that the report is false. It you believe in ghosts, yet have no specific idea of what the properties of a ghost is, how does any claim become out of bounds ?
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11:12 am November 4, 2009
| Nosfer
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Given the state of the education system that may be crossing over into the everyday world, too.
Like almost all things, it's in the eye of the beholder…there are always going to be those who will not believe anything or who will believe almost anything.
But in the realm of the paranormal, it appears there are NO boundaries beyond which one can be reasonably assured that the report is false.
I like to say "yet" It, like many fields is still evolving, and if we can get people like Ghost Lab to stop dinking things up as far as the mis-application of science, maybe there will become a point when those boundaries will become a bit more solid. For now, though, it seems to be an arena where if you don't have absolute trust in the person reporting the event, the credibility isn't there.
Actually, IF the medium IS legit, then that person should have better qualifications for applying skeptical thinking…IF legit, that person has some idea of what or what is not possible/credible…not absolute, but at least a better idea.
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11:51 am November 4, 2009
| The Doctor
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| Lead Investigator | posts 488 |
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Nosfer said:
Actually, IF the medium IS legit, then that person should have better qualifications for applying skeptical thinking…IF legit, that person has some idea of what or what is not possible/credible…not absolute, but at least a better idea.
When you say "that person has some idea of what or what is not possible/credible" are you saying that there is some kind of critera that can be applied to claims ? ( not that there simply should be some critera )
If so, perhaps some medium can come on here and give us some specifics as to what would be "not possible" ? Maybe give us an example from one of the shows of something that they would be skeptical about since it's not possible/credible that such and such would happen since ghosts don't/can't ( whatever ) ? … and how they know this ?
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1:25 pm November 4, 2009
| Nosfer
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The Doctor said:
When you say "that person has some idea of what or what is not possible/credible" are you saying that there is some kind of critera that can be applied to claims ? ( not that there simply should be some critera )
Don't know since I don't think I have the "sight" lol But IF the person truly does have the "sight", he or she would at least know what is possible. Maybe not necessarily what is impossible, but could at least say "yeah, that _could_ happen"
I think the first thing to raise a flag would be if the person runs around proclaiming to the world that they can do this and especially if they have an ad running somewhere :) The next flag would be if they go on and on about what they've done but as soon as you ask pointed questions they start to back pedal and put conditions and stipulations on things.
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2:17 pm November 4, 2009
| The Doctor
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| Lead Investigator | posts 488 |
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Nosfer said:
The Doctor said:
When you say "that person has some idea of what or what is not possible/credible" are you saying that there is some kind of critera that can be applied to claims ? ( not that there simply should be some critera )
Don't know since I don't think I have the "sight" lol But IF the person truly does have the "sight", he or she would at least know what is possible. Maybe not necessarily what is impossible, but could at least say "yeah, that _could_ happen"
?? If saying "yeah, that _could_ happen" is to have any meaning at all, there must be some point where they would say " No, that could probably never happen, because ".
The "because" should be based on their mediumistic knowledge of the limitations of the paranormal.
Without that flying elephant point, everything could happen, and skepticism no longer exists.
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2:25 pm November 4, 2009
| Nosfer
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You've just come across an elephant for the first time. You're looking at it from a great distance through a telescope…just a speck but enough to class it as an elephant. You see it walking around and squirting water with it's trunk. Based upon that, you KNOW that an elephant walking and squirting water is possible. You haven't seen it fly yet so you can't say for sure whether or not it can, and you're not seeing it in enough detail to say for sure there are no wings or other characteristics that would allow it to fly. That could be where the medium is, the person has seen enough to know what is possible, but can't rule other things out because it's still new.
The other way around, you're seeing a big bird walking around from a distance, it's wings folded and inconspicuous…it hasn't spread them or displayed them. You know from what you've seen that the bird can walk. You haven't been able to determine whether or not it can fly, though.
And, again, I'll add…Yet.
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3:03 pm November 4, 2009
| The Doctor
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| Lead Investigator | posts 488 |
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Nosfer said:
That could be where the medium is, the person has seen enough to know what is possible, but can't rule other things out because it's still new.
And, again, I'll add…Yet.
The problem with " it's still new" and "… Yet" is that psychics and mediums have been around for how many hundreds of years ?
You seem to have used the medium's limited knowledge of the subject to create an argument for why a medium cannot be a skeptic.
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3:07 pm November 4, 2009
| Nosfer
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Well, I can't proxy for one so let's just wait until one comes in here and posts.
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5:45 pm November 4, 2009
| Learjet
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| Lead Investigator | posts 1119 |
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I used to be a medium but now I'm a large, hehheh. 
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5:49 pm November 4, 2009
| Nosfer
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Well, at least we did prove the inverse by example…a Skeptic CAN be a medium…OR a large LOL
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6:19 pm November 4, 2009
| Harry
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| Investigator | posts 60 |
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"One of GHA's new arrivals is Heathyr, a self-described skeptical medium."
Yes, that makes as much sense as saying you're an honest thief.
Or a promiscuous virgin.
Or a born-again agnostic.
Or a faithful philanderer.
Or a loyal traitor.
When Heathyr made that statement, it was a laugh-out-loud moment.
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8:46 am November 5, 2009
| The Doctor
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| Lead Investigator | posts 488 |
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Upon deeper reflection, I realize the medium would have a few avenues for skepticism.
It appears they cannot be based on the knowledge of the paranormal, since there is no concensus of opinion for a basis, but they can be skeptical based on where the report comes from, or the quality of the report.
Hopefully a person claiming to be a medium can still look at a figure of a person wearing a black sheet over their head and be as skeptical as any non-believer. The question then becomes one of integrity … would the medium be willing to cry foul and perhaps be tossed from the group, or are they willing to let it slide ?
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9:11 am November 5, 2009
| Nosfer
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The question then becomes one of integrity … would the medium be willing to cry foul and perhaps be tossed from the group, or are they willing to let it slide ?
I think that question applies to anyone in the group, not just the medium. If it's a TV Show, would contracts trump integrity? Again, that is at the individual level and lumping all mediums into one category isn't a fair thing to do. Same would go for the "scientist" in the group…does he have a contract? What's his level of integrity? Can't lump them all together, either, but unfortunately in today's society, that seems to be the norm for "ease of use" :(
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