Tonight, I watched the SyFy show "Fact or Fiction" that featured "Raystown Ray"…supposedly an unknown creature swimming about in Raystown Lake in Pennsylvania. Many refer to it as another Loch Ness monster or Champ. I won't get into the shows investigatory methods. I am strictly looking at it from a cryptozoological angle.
And, of course, when one chooses to look from an angle such as this, one often starts at Cryptomundo. Here…is your first red flag…not many articles on the topic. Not many at all. This is the best one:
Had to go back to May of 2006 for that one. I will give them credit…they end the piece with this paragraph:
"This lake is man-made, resulting from the construction of the Raystown Dam that was completed in 1912. How likely is there to be a lake monster in a man-made lake less than 100 years old? How did it get there?"
Yeah…that is a problem. First things first…is it true? Yeah, pretty much. Here's the Wiki entry that kind of covers the start of the reservoir back in 1907:
So…where does that leave Raystown Ray? Well…yeah…a 20 foot unknown creature…in a man made lake…that's less than a 100 years old…that's also a huge (two million visitors) recreation spot. That is a great deal to overcome. And when Cryptomundo is even doubting it…man, Raystown Ray has got some troubles…
The only possibility that I can even remotely make a case for is some sort of genetic mutation of an existing fish. They do stock the lake and fishing is a huge attraction there (and yes…even I fished there once many moons ago). In an effort to produce "trophy" fish, could someone along the way have come up with a chemical cocktail to grow a particular fish at a faster rate and something went weird? Well…I certainly have no proof and I really, really hope not since people do eat those fish. But, if we're just covering the bases and throwing out possibilities…I can't think of a better one than this.
Beyond that…well, someone would have had to have physically placed something extremely exotic into the reservoir. And more than just one if you want a breeding population. Since there isn't exactly a "Sea-Monsters-R-Us" around…I suppose we're talking about some sort of eel. Maybe like this one:
Of course, the world record for that eel is just over 9 lbs. Not sure if they can make it up to that 20 foot type of size. Typically, your bigger eels are salt water creatures. I'm not saying a few couldn't possibly make the switch from salt to fresh…you would need a marine biologist for that one. Then again…does an eel, whatever type, really fit all the descriptions? And can it lift its head about 5-8 feet (roughly) out of the water? I don't think so. So…if it's not an eel…what else could someone have dumped into that lake?
Personally, I'm leaning towards misidentification of logs, a great marketing plan, naturally occuring water tricks (weird smaller waves that people may take for living creatures) and perhaps just a touch of hoaxing. I mean, it would be great if it wasn't and it turns out to be something unusual. It's just that I don't think this particular body of water really lends itself to any sort of monster madness.
"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
Well done, Rev. I missed this part of the episode; your post convinced me to go back and watch it. I completely agree with your last paragraph – there's no other sane explanation. The log they used could, from a distance, easily be mistaken for some kind of living creature. I thought the fake serpent they put together was close enough to the photo that they should have at least considered hoaxing. And finally, their assumption that no one could, or would go to the trouble to, pull this off and without getting caught is so naive.
Maybe I missed something but why on Earth would they search for this thing at night and in the dark? Does it also need to draw on surrounding energy in order to manifest?
Crow said: "Well done, Rev. I missed this part of the episode; your post convinced me to go back and watch it. I completely agree with your last paragraph – there's no other sane explanation."
Thanks. Um…yeah…the more that one thinks about it the more that you come away from it shaking your head. It's a man-made lake. Anything in there was either placed there by the hand of man or it's the spawn of something placed there by the hand of man. Well, unless you wish to go the more outlandish route (placed there by aliens or…it came from the ocean, hit the east coast, super-developed its amphibious nature, walked unseen all the way to Pennsylvania, hopped into the reservoir, and has now shed it's amphibious nature and keeps to the depths…), we just don't have many things to choose from.
Crow also said: "The log they used could, from a distance, easily be mistaken for some kind of living creature. I thought the fake serpent they put together was close enough to the photo that they should have at least considered hoaxing. And finally, their assumption that no one could, or would go to the trouble to, pull this off and without getting caught is so naive."
I couldn't agree more. I know that if I were to perpetuate some sort of hoax ( ) there is no end to the man-hours that I would put in to make it perfect. I would literally become an expert on any aspect that I needed to make it believable. Why? Because it's fun. I think many people, like those on "Fact Or Fiction," seem to either really downplay this or they simply don't understand it. Fooling people or making people look foolish is an American past-time. Look at all the video clip type of shows now on TV. I don't think a day goes by where I don't scan the channels and catch a skate-boarder eating some concrete or someone asleep and getting something thrown on them or being subjected to an insanely loud noise. It's fun to do and funny to watch…apparently…
To get back directly to hoaxing in our context…you can see the progression with Bigfoot. Back in the day, some guy out in the woods just strapped large cut-out shapes of feet to his own feet and walked around. Technology caught up with this and began to look for "tell-tale" signs like dermal ridges. What has been the hoaxer response? To take rubber molds of his own feet and use chemicals to expand the size. In this way, not only do you have the foot shape, but you also now have dermal ridges. There was a show that featured this, maybe MQ (100 Revenant points for anyone who can find that clip….). Why do people go to this extreme? Because they find it funny. *shrugs* Human nature…
So Crow, you're absolutely right about the crew of "FoF" being naive. If people are making Bigfoot prints complete with dermal ridges…why wouldn't they have fun with wood or foam or any other light weight material to build a Ray or a Champ or a Nessie?
Lindy said: "Maybe I missed something but why on Earth would they search for this thing at night and in the dark? Does it also need to draw on surrounding energy in order to manifest?"
Yikes…not only is Ray a sea monster….but a ghost of a sea monster…
Why did they search at night and in the dark? That's an excellent question. If we acknowledge Ray to be real, then Ray is a marine creature. He is not magical or mystical nor does he have magical or mystical powers like a ghost is reported to have. So, marine creatures act in very particular and predictable ways. "FoF" could have used this way of thinking to expand their search.
For example, why do fishermen fish in the early morning? Tiny fish feed at that time. Smaller fish come by and eat the tiny fish. Medium fish come up and…you know…the circle of life. Many fish feed in the early morning. That would be the prime time to see anything big. I doubt many boats run at night on that lake, so the waters would still be relatively undisturbed. And…best of all, the sun is up. You can actually see.
And lastly…the sightings of the creature were during sunlight hours. Why? Many fresh water marine creatures are more active during the day. Again, we're not under "ghost rules" here. Ray, if he does exist, would be an unknown marine creature. He wouldn't have magical properties…well, unless he actually was dropped off by aliens…then all bets are off…
"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
To get back directly to hoaxing in our context…you can see the progression with Bigfoot. Back in the day, some guy out in the woods just strapped large cut-out shapes of feet to his own feet and walked around. Technology caught up with this and began to look for "tell-tale" signs like dermal ridges. What has been the hoaxer response? To take rubber molds of his own feet and use chemicals to expand the size. In this way, not only do you have the foot shape, but you also now have dermal ridges. There was a show that featured this, maybe MQ (100 Revenant points for anyone who can find that clip….). Why do people go to this extreme? Because they find it funny. *shrugs* Human nature…
To expand on this progression as technology evolves concept, you can also see the progression of crop circles over the years. Since the late 70's when they started becoming popular up to now, the designs have become more complex as the hoaxer's methods and skills have developed.
@Lindy – I agree. Here's an old thread on the subject here at SV. Oh, and check out my post about mid-way down. It provides a link to one the greatest, if not the greatest, sites on Crop Circles. They even have a starter's guide.
And…while I'm here…I have some randomness to get out of the way…
At night, when they were doing their dive, Ben says "Visibility improves once we get down to about thirty feet."
Austin, who is in the boat, responds "Perfect. You guys should be getting below the first thermocline, feeling a slight fluctuation in temperature. That's where the predators are going to be. If Ray's down there, that's where you should find him."
First, I must admit that I had to rewind that part about 20 times just to get that right. Anyway, it's somewhat odd that he uses the term "thermocline" for a man-made lake. I usually associate that term with the ocean, but it's not really a big deal. What caught my ear was the use of the term "predators." What predators? So…I looked here:
The list has catfish, carp, bass…blah, blah, blah…and then "Muskellunge" jumped out at me (I will link something about the fish in a moment). A "Muskie," for those that aren't fishermen, are big (can be over 4 feet and 60 lbs) and have very bad attitudes. If you get one in the boat, you better have your wits about you or someone is going to get hurt. But Austin doesn't expound on the term "predator." He certainly doesn't mention the Muskie. And he doesn't explain why predators (any type) would be given to hang out at 30 feet. Water temperature (remember his use of "thermocline") is only one factor in determining where a certain type of fish is. Since he isn't stating what the predators are, how can he determine the depth of water and the temperature of the water that they would be in? Much less…the nature of Ray…which IF real…is still unknown. So…Austin has Ray as not only a predator, but now knows both the depth and temperature of water that he should be found in. Hmmm…how?
Because apparently Austin "specializes" in lake monsters. Really? And he has a degree in biology (so why his title on the show is "Stunt Expert"…I just don't know). Well…let's put Mr Biology Degree to the test. Let's talk about that sonar hit that he saw.
Was the sonar image actual solid? That is unknown and never addressed again by the show. Was the image recorded and looked at by sonar experts or expert fishermen? Relatively easy to do yet nothing seems to have been done. So, we're left to our own imaginations, cool…let's use them…
Nosfer, in another thread, mention this: "It appears that someone is trying to capitalize on this (rather poorly, though) and the website even has a blurb right on the home page about filming of the Fact or Faked show there in April of 2010 ."
Hmmm…so the FoF team is there in April. Muskie are large fish that can school together at that very time of year. They spawn in shallow water (where they were) and they also choose a location with a rock or sand bottom (which was seen on the show).
So, since we're left to use our imaginations…which is more likely? Austin saw a solid image of a 15 foot, or more, unknown creature named Ray in a less then a 100 year old man-made lake…or…he saw a school of Muskie roaming around a potential breeding location in spring time?
If only there where seasoned, expert fishermen around who could have looked at that sonar image. You know, guys who have fished that lake for years and know every inch of it. Hmmm…like the 11 fishing guides listed on that Raystown website that I already linked. If Austin is indeed the "methodical scientist" that his bio claims that he is…why wouldn't he use such a valuable resource as that? So eye-witness testimony of Ray is given incredible weight…yet, the expert fishermen (the people whose very jobs depend upon being on the lake as much as possible…) have no say in the matter nor do they get to even check out the sonar reading? Hmmm…these just don't sound like the actions of a "methodical scientist" to me.
Ray, Ray, Ray…the more that I look into this, the more I shake my head…
"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
In my previous post, I stated that the FoF (Fact or FAKED…I keep calling it Fact or Fiction, my bad…) bio for Austin stated that he "specialized" in lake monsters. Being a Cryptozoologist myself (and who isn't?)…I wanted to bone up on my lake monsters:
About mid-way down, they begin to list the Lake Monsters by country. And when you go through the list, check out Sweden! I guess I'm not swimming in the lakes of Sweden anytime soon. When I get some time, I'll take a look at Sweden and try to figure out what is going on over there and report back here in another thread.
And for the record, I don't like lake monsters all that much. Everytime I see a picture or a video, it's like an aquatic Rorschach test. It's a dark mass that's maybe moving around. I never know what I'm looking at. Some people see an eel. Some see a tree. Some see a moose. One guess usually is just as good as another. As for the particular picture that they aired showing Ray. No idea what I'm looking at in that picture. I see a few black masses. No idea if they are connected. No idea how big they are. No idea if the photograph is even real (not photo-shopped…has that been confirmed?). Again…I never know what I'm looking at with these watery events…
"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
Interesting, the site was registered on 14 April 2010 which happens to be about the time FoF was at the lake filming…
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Thanks for letting us know about the book. I did have a question for you. In my research of Raystown Ray, I found that an unusual amount of cryptozoologists were shying away from this particular "cryptid." I was wondering if your friend, Thomas Perryman, has faced any opposition from any fellow cryptozoologists? Or has the book been endorsed by any well known cryptozoologists?
"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
Hey thanks for the question Revenant, not trying to drum up business, but The Auther is my father.
I know he was going to work with Jeremy Wade on this investigation but with Wade's tentative schedule or success, it could not happen. My dad started on this around 04 or 05. I know the Freeman crptozooie guy was talking with him, I forget his first name but he is from the UK like Wade. My father has a lot of ties to the UK. He had a bust made by a UK studio effects artist that did tons of awesome Hollywood films.
I sent a link of this forum to my dad, I think he could answer a lot better.
Thank care, I'm working on his next Lake project but I really could not on this last book due to my 4 year college pretty much conflicted.
The legend of Raystown Ray is bogus. The creation of Raystown Ray began in 2006 with the following news release in the local newspaper the Daily News. "Huntingdon County Visitors Bureau – PRESS RELEASE April 2006, RaystownRay. "We've known it's been in there a while now," admitted Managing Director of Raystown Lake Dwight Beall when he was asked his thoughts on this astonishing discovery. "It's a private creature, but it comes out around this time of year. Call it Raystown's own Punxatawny Phil."
Actually this was public relations ploy to increase visitors to the "Lake," as it is known locally.
I can recount to you that it may be an off spring of another spoof to eliminate the Canadian Geese problem on Army Corps Property. The geese were, and still are, enjoying the natural beauty of this vast inland body of water. Enjoying the view and grass, to the displeasure of the locals and visitors. The geese enjoy large grassy strips of shore line, not allowing the visitors access the water or beach area in the wilder parts of the park. The solution to the geese in the Big Lake, release an everglades alligator. The plan was simple, the National Park Service and the Army Corps of Engineers would have a lend lease, or in this case, a release of a 800 pound 14 foot long native crock to rid the lake of the Canadian invaders. Of course this was not done, thanks to the sanity of local officials. And as I said it was a spoof.
Had the perpetrators of the Raystown Ray story kept true to local legends, the mystery of the lake monster would have more credence.
Raystown Branch of the Juniata River has a long history. From the Juniata River, the Raystown Branch extends to Bedford Pennsylvania. Bedford in 1756 was the location of a British Fort during the French and Indian war period. One could travel up the Raystown, twenty or more miles. However this all changed in 1905, when a dam was constructed to provide Hydroelectric power for Huntingdon County.
The Raystown branch also pasted Saxton and the Broad Top coal mining region of Huntingdon and Bedford Counties. The stream passes through a ridge and valley system, passing through a steep and narrow valley.
Had the creators of Raystown Ray in 2006 kept with local tradition rather than inventing a Loch Ness creature, then the story would have been more of a mystery.
Raystown Ray would have been more believable if the story line followed a tradition that came out of the local coal mine ledgends, and ended up with the construction of a nuclear plant in Saxton. The Raystown Ray story presented to the gullible public in 2006 would have been more believable if it was told with more local facts and not so much trying to be related to Punxatawny Phil. The story of Raystown Phil could have begun….
Raystown Ray story begins here. There has been a legend of a giant snake in the Broad Top Mountains of south-central Pennsylvania for many years. The snake resembles an Anaconda and ranges from 28 to 40 feet in length. The first sighting on record was in 1927. This was 22 years after the construction of the first dam across the Raystown Branch of the Juniata. Up until that time the snake had free range of the lower Juniata River valley. With the construction of the 1905 dam the creature was trapped in the slack water of Raystown.
In the 1927 the Broad Top was, and still is, a mountainous region that is 90% forested, with remote sections without any houses for miles. As Pennsylvania winters are very cold, the local legend is, a tropical snake could winter in the various mine shafts of the Broad Top coal field.
But two events transformed the large snake of local legend into the lake monster of today.
From 1962 to 1972, the Saxton Nuclear Power Plant was constructed and in operation. Saxton pioneered the use of boron in cooling water to control the chain reaction, and was also the first privately owned power reactor to use plutonium as fuel. Today the plant has been decommissioned the site return to its natural state. But during the 10 years of operation, soil and water contamination leached into the Raystown. Branch. Decommissioning began in 2000. The same year the Broad Top Snake was last seen. (Broad Top Bulletin)
Now one can not say that there is a connection in seeing a large snake beginning in 1927 and a decommission of a nuclear reactor in 2000. But there may be a connection. During the time the plant was in operation, research was being conducted by Pennsylvania State University and Rutgers University. Both research facilities with government funding. Also what is added to the mix was the interest by the Army Corp of engineers in 1965 with a proposal for the new dam that incorporated the ideas of "…… provide(ing) flood control, … water quality and fish and wildlife enhancement" (U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, 1974). Interesting that after the two universities were involved in reactor research and the army Corps wanted to have a large body of water that "included wildlife enhancement."
Some believe that the large snake of 1927 was trapped in the Raystown by the 1905 dam. The reptile was transformed by the boron in cooling water and the plutonium. And from the genetic experimentation of the two universities a creature of valuable scientific importance was created. Today, Juniata College has a research Field Station on the Raystown Lake, funded by the Federal Government..When alumni of either university is asked about experiments on such a creature, they smile and shake their heads, no words are spoken. And what was the roll of the Federal Government and the Army Corps of Engineers to construct a dam finished in 1972? Was it for flood control? Or was it to contain the great snake of the Broad Top Region?
@ Janos – First off, welcome to the site. A very interesting post. Thank you for posting it. If you don't mind, I have a couple of questions.
Janos said: "There has been a legend of a giant snake in the Broad Top Mountains of south-central Pennsylvania for many years. The snake resembles an Anaconda and ranges from 28 to 40 feet in length. The first sighting on record was in 1927. This was 22 years after the construction of the first dam across the Raystown Branch of the Juniata. Up until that time the snake had free range of the lower Juniata River valley. With the construction of the 1905 dam the creature was trapped in the slack water of Raystown."
It is generally accepted that the largest modern record for the length of an Anaconda is 28 feet and the longest length for a snake on modern record is an Asiatic Reticulated Python at 33 feet. (typical link that verifies this information) So to assert that the snake could be 40 feet is quite something. Is there any physical evidence that such a large snake either lived or currently lives in Pennsylvania? Physical evidence, of course, would include pictures, video, bones or even skin that has been shed.
Janos said: "Interesting that after the two universities were involved in reactor research and the army Corps wanted to have a large body of water that "included wildlife enhancement."
I am unclear as to how you are using "wildlife enhancement." To me, it is simply the restoration of grasslands and/or wetlands. "Through the restoration of grassland and wetland habitats landowners can significantly increase the abundance of grassland wildlife (pheasant, prairie-chickens, quail, songbirds, and more), increase carbon sequestration, improve soil quality, reduce soil erosion and improve water quality." That quote comes from the SAFE Project. Most states have programs like this or include something like it.
It seems that you are implying that "wildlife enhancement" has some other meaning. Can you please explain this?
Janos said: "Some believe that the large snake of 1927 was trapped in the Raystown by the 1905 dam. The reptile was transformed by the boron in cooling water and the plutonium. And from the genetic experimentation of the two universities a creature of valuable scientific importance was created."
You have completely and utterly lost me. The reptile was…transformed…by the boron in cooling water and the plutonium. You mean…like how Godzilla grew to a magnificent size due to exposure to nuclear radiation? I'm sorry, but I'm going to need to see some scientific evidence of what you are implying.
And…two universities (PSU and Rutgers) dabbled in genetic experimentation and created a creature of "valuable scientific importance"…but haven't written a paper on it to gain further funding? I would buy the snake with the Godzilla-like properties before I would believe that. In the world of science, I find it highly unlikely.
Think of it this way…if you are implying that the two schools created a snake that could grow to 40 feet and beyond…this would be quite significant. Your "valuable scientific importance" angle would be dead-on. At one time, snakes could grow to enormous size. Fossils show this. Of course, the Earth was 6-8 degrees warmer and there was much more oxygen in the atmosphere. So if geneticists at PSU and Rutgers found a way to greatly improve upon the circulatory system of snakes…this would be a goldmine. No, actually…a diamond mine. In any event…papers would be written, awards would be given, and checks would be cashed.
Lastly…Janos, please do not take any of this personally. It is not meant to be so. This is a skeptical website. One in which we constantly challenge each other's views, opinions, and facts in a hopefully mature and polite manner. We do so in the spirit of truth and we enjoy a good, intelligent argument. I hope you understand this
"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
If you wish to remove my comments that is ok. My original post may have had to much information. My intent was to state that those following the Raystown Ray story are not looking into the facts. "Had the perpetrators of the Raystown Ray story kept true to local legends, the mystery of the lake monster would have more credence." As the Science Fiction Channel posted a video and investigated the site with two witnesses is a waste of solid research. Where is the historic documentation for a region that has been transversed since the 18th century, and no earlier sightings? The Science Fiction Channel research group is basing their story on the 2006 newspaper spoof. Any thing earlier recorded? If one is to invent a creature, then use the stories that have been reported historically — as the large snake –, add a bit of mystery — a research facility, and the bring in the government — always some black-ops –somewhere.
I am very skeptical of the Raystown Ray story as one can be, and as cynical as why put such a story to the public. Other than to create a fabracated myth.
So which part of the story is the local legend and which part is where it just goes off the deep end? From your (Janos') original post I assumed that everything after 2006 was "off the deep end" and nothing more than PR. Where does the boron mutation fit into this, is that the local legend part or off the deep end? (personally I'd be leaning toward the "off the deep end" side of things) I'd say the 2006 press release is no worse than a back story of a mutation of the snake by plutonium… I think the FoF episode would have been even worse had they brought in that as an explanation. Or have I read all this wrong?
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Janos is indeed correct about Raystown Ray being a PP creation and nothing more. The local visitors bureau issued its release around April Fool's Day 2006. Some local media played along, others didn't. But, for whatever amount of attention Ray got at that point, it was enough to give the false legend some teeth.
A prior manifestation of the visitors bureau once had a little groundhog mascot named Randy. Maybe there's only enough room for one celebrity groundhog in Pennsylvania – I don't know what became of Randy. Ray, too, is a story on loan from more famous places.
The frustration of persons like myself, and I'm assuming Janos as well, is that the general area has a very rich and long history, and along the way some very intriguing legends have been born.
Like Janos, I have to ask why any person or group would invent a legend on the spot when there are long documented mysteries yet to be solved and historical niches to be explored. Ray is no mystery.
So, while Ray is getting air-time on cable television and helping sell t-shirts, our bona fide legends which were not born out of some committee, have been shoved aside. I can't help but cringe when I hear or read about people trying to put some scientific meaning to the Ray story and taking it all so seriously. It's not science, but rather finance. He's a means to sells more merchandise to the lake's 2 million annual visitors and to get some free publicity via cable TV.
I don't mean to be so hard on Ray. He's fun and if the lake needs an official licensed mascot, he'll do. But he's not based on any existing local myth or legend. He started out as an April Fool's joke. A strange without a past.
As far as our actual local myths go, I myself am intrigued by the Broad Top Snake which manages every so often to slither across one of our rural roads to the horror of some hunter or early morning car pool, and which at least could be connected somehow to an exotic circus escapee.
@ Gertrude – Hello and welcome to the site. Thank you for contributing to the thread. You have some interesting points and I would like to respond.
I began this thread because I was intrigued by the possibility of Raystown Ray and treated it like any other paranormal claim. As I examined the evidence presented by SyFy's "Fact or Faked" television show, I found the evidence wanting. The more I looked into it, the less impressed I was.
Although some paranormal claims can be dismissed by saying it was a joke or a promotional stunt or simply a hoax, I think we go the extra mile here at SV. If possible, we want to prove it. We will discuss the methodology, the evidence, the motivation behind it, and so on. That is why I brought up as many points as I could and refute them one by one. Raystown Ray really has nothing going for it.
So really, we are in total agreement that the likelyhood of Raystown Ray actually existing is dismal at best and most likely, an out and out falsehood. However…
If you wish to replace Raystown Ray with the "Broad Top Snake"…so be it. But the BTS (Broad Top Snake) will have to stand up to the same scrutiny.
Gertrude said: "As far as our actual local myths go, I myself am intrigued by the Broad Top Snake which manages every so often to slither across one of our rural roads to the horror of some hunter or early morning car pool, and which at least could be connected somehow to an exotic circus escapee."
Ok, let me ask you the same question as I asked Jonas…what physical evidence do you or anyone else have of the BTS existing? Is there anything beyond eye-witness accounts?
And if I am to believe what Jonas has written, the first sighting was in 1927. You are claiming, from what I can gather, recent sightings. The typical lifespan for an Anaconda is 10 to 12 years with some living for 20+ years while in captivity. So, either there is a breeding population of Anacondas or there are many exotic circuses losing a ton of snakes throughout the years. I would have to view either of these things as very unlikely.
Now let's talk about the size (28 to 40 feet) for a moment. As I said before, the modern day record is 28 feet and that's in the Amazon Rain forest. I think that we could both agree that the Amazon Rain forest is the optimal location for these snakes because they can eat all year round. In Pennsylvania…not so much. The winter months would drive the snake (snakes?) down into the coal mines to hibernate. If they could survive (I think they could…but even that's questionable…), they wouldn't be eating much. Hence…they wouldn't be growing to world record sizes.
I still do not understand what Jonas meant in his second post when he said: "…add a bit of mystery — a research facility, and the bring in the government — always some black-ops –somewhere." So…the "transforming" snake from Boron and Plutonium and genetic experiments was just made up? Or is that actually apart of your BTS myth? Still lost on that one.
So, to finally sum things up…you are upset over the newer myth (Ray being most likely a falsehood) taking the place of the lesser known, older myth (one in which really resembles Ray since there is zero physical evidence of its existance)?
I would love to further engage in this new BTS argument with either yourself or Jonas…I just need more to go on. I am not seeing how one myth is "better" than the other…
EDIT: Ok…I swear someone named Gertrude posted. Now…not seeing it. Odd, because I thought her post was pretty decent. Not sure what happened there. I was going to say that I'm not crazy…but…I can't prove that one way or another…
"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer
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) there is no end to the man-hours that I would put in to make it perfect. I would literally become an expert on any aspect that I needed to make it believable. Why? Because it's fun. I think many people, like those on "Fact Or Fiction," seem to either really downplay this or they simply don't understand it. Fooling people or making people look foolish is an American past-time. Look at all the video clip type of shows now on TV. I don't think a day goes by where I don't scan the channels and catch a skate-boarder eating some concrete or someone asleep and getting something thrown on them or being subjected to an insanely loud noise. It's fun to do and funny to watch…apparently…
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