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11:56 am
June 5, 2009


Leslie

Investigator

posts 157

I saw this the other day. Still trying to figure out what it could be. Any ideas?

http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/olsenvid09/

At first I thought it was a log or oddly shaped piece of wood, but the more I watch it the less I think that's what it is.

12:11 pm
June 5, 2009


Mary

Pondering what you're pondering

Investigator

posts 147

I got the impression it was an animal that was trying to swim to shore, especially watching the 'enhanced' video.  Moose?  Horse?  I felt sorry for it, actually.  I hope it made it to the edge, because it looked like it was struggling to keep its head above water, and the film stopped just short of showing whether it made it, or not.

"Quando omni flunkus moritati" ("When all else fails, play dead") – Possum Lodge motto. Jason and Grant should adopt it as their own.

12:37 pm
June 5, 2009


Leslie

Investigator

posts 157

Mary-

Yea, a lot of people are thinking it's a moose, or something of that nature. The thing that bothers me about it is the size of the "head" in proportion to the rest of the body. It looks awfully small to be a moose. It almost looks 'turtle-ish' in shape, but that would be one big turtle!! Surprised I know that the low light situation can distort the image and make it look like something it's not. It is too bad we don't get to see the rest of the vidoe (if there is more) if this thing reached the shore. One other thing I noticed is a strange splash in the water in the 'body' region of the creature. It happens at about 1:20.

1:02 pm
June 5, 2009


Nosfer

Rotaredom

Moderator

posts 2875

That splash is quite a ways behind the head and the body proportion is out of whack for any moose I've seen. Where the splash is would indicate and even longer body. A moose will get pretty low in the water but I've not heard of them heading out in to large open bodies of water like Champlain before. Not to say they don't, but just never seen one do that around here.

Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.

1:37 pm
June 5, 2009


Leslie

Investigator

posts 157

It is hard to tell what represents the wake from the 'creature' and what is actual body size, but I agree it gives the impression of being very big, or long. And again, the whole head size just seems off.

2:31 pm
June 5, 2009


alicat

Lead Investigator

posts 1214

After looking at this video, I have to say it probably is a young moose (calf).  The tide plus the ripples/waves and the fact that they had a lot of rain which would swell the lake make the most sense for the video.  Three interesting things to point out are the time of day this was taken, there are no reference points to judge size and why does the video stop where it does?  If this individual was watching this enough to tape it, why not until it disappeared or came out of the water?

I'd love to believe it is something more and I've been to Loch Ness where one can get away with it due to such a remote area.  Because of my interest in Loch Ness, I'd love to believe there is something in Lake Champlain.

However, if this animal was swimming in distress, that would account for the extended wake to a degree.  That, combined with the tide and the way the light plays with the waves/ripples, would also account for it looking much larger than a moose.  I think the fact that it had rained and the Lake had become swollen accounts for a lot as well.  If you notice when it goes across the water all of a sudden it submerges and comes back up longer and larger.  Walking across the floor of the lake or swimming and then being able to stand on a sand bar would explain a lot.  The Chesapeake is famous for that.  You can anchor out close to shore at some points, go in the water and then walk (in what appears to be deep water) to sit on the shore and sun yourself on the beach.  It's really not that unusual.

Edit:  Check out this link:  http://www.nhptv.org/NatureWorks/moose.htm

3:36 pm
June 5, 2009


Nosfer

Rotaredom

Moderator

posts 2875

Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.

3:40 pm
June 5, 2009


Revenant

Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage"

Lead Investigator

posts 1393

Just to side-track just for a moment…

I read the article that comes along with the clip (thanks Leslie).  This caught my eye:

"Joe Nickell, a cryptozoologist in Amherst, N.Y., says his best guess is that the object was a moose calf.” ~ NECN

Mr. Nickel, of course, is hardly a cryptozoologist.

It is widely acknowledged that Nickel is a former stage magician and a prominent skeptical investigator of the “paranormal” (which to Nickel includes cryptozoology). He is a member of the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal and a writer for Skeptic Inquirer."

Knowing a little about Joe Nickell, this made me laugh.  Why would he call himself that?  Well, why not?  Let's take a look at an article called "20 Questions With Loren Coleman" at Mr. Coleman's very own website:

http://lorencoleman.com/loren_coleman_7.html

"2. Is there any way to prepare for the job? Does it have good benefits? Do you put "cryptozoologist" in the space for profession on your tax return?

"Cryptozoologists" do not have a formal job description, per se. Various educational backgrounds (anthropology, linguistics, zoology, biology, etc.) are helpful, and other trainings go into making one a cryptozoologist. I teach at a university, consult, research, and write. I believe my accountant puts "professor/author" on tax forms."

So….really….anyone can call themselves a cryptozoologist then?  Just not Joe Nickell…

I've got nothing against Loren Coleman.  Seems like a nice person and I've enjoyed reading many of the things that he's written.  It just so happens that I disagree with him on some points…like this one.

Oh…and by way…since I'm in a good mood today…anyone who has posted in this thread or does so after this post…is now a cryptozoologist!  Be sure to update your resumes…

"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer

3:50 pm
June 5, 2009


alicat

Lead Investigator

posts 1214

Revenant,

I could have used that at my interview earlier today!  Darn it!  Once again, I'm too late!

Nosfer,

Thanks for those links.  That third one really startled me so much I actually jumped!  I wasn't expecting that to happen.  3 out of 4 were in pretty calm waters and the one was close to shore but even the third one shows how far out one can appear to be and still stand or appear to stand.  They are pretty strong swimmers (6 mph) and if it was a young one, the power of those legs could really stir up the water as they would be shorter and therefore closer to the top and moving very quickly.  Where's Michael Phelps when you need him?  I am not calling him a moose but he does kick up a wake.  LOL! 

4:20 pm
June 5, 2009


blinddog

Moderator

posts 854

Rev, being as we have posted, can we add author to our resume also.

" Take the red pill ".

9:12 pm
June 5, 2009


Hannah

Texas

Lead Investigator

posts 361

Revenant:  "Oh…and by way…since I'm in a good mood today…anyone who has posted in this thread or does so after this post…is now a cryptozoologist!  Be sure to update your resumes…"

Blinddog: "Rev, being as we have posted, can we add author to our resume also."

Thanks, guys.  I will list you both as references.  Cool  

I think it might be a baby moose.

Baby moose swimming:

http://image09.webshots.com/9/5/48/56/178354856bLwupM_fs.jpg

12:56 am
June 6, 2009


Revenant

Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage"

Lead Investigator

posts 1393

alicat said:

After looking at this video, I have to say it probably is a young moose (calf).  The tide plus the ripples/waves and the fact that they had a lot of rain which would swell the lake make the most sense for the video.  Three interesting things to point out are the time of day this was taken, there are no reference points to judge size and why does the video stop where it does?  If this individual was watching this enough to tape it, why not until it disappeared or came out of the water?


I finally had a chance to look at all the video.  Alicat, I agree with your three points.  I thought the same exact things.  Especially the last one…why does the film end when, whatever it is, is so close to the shore?

I have to admit, the first thing I thought of was a beaver.  I know, I know.  But an older beaver can get up to 100 lbs and over 4 feet long.  And since there's no reference point for size, I can't tell how big the animal really is.  And I also thought that the beaver's powerful tail, under the water, might be able to produce that odd wave behind it. 

Many people seem to like the moose theory.  I can see it.  But I can't see any ears in the video's.  Don't moose have pretty big ears?  Maybe they're just pinned back?

Overall, I'm just not sure.  It is interesting…

EDIT:  Ok, I just used the links in this thread.  I didn't know more video had become available.  Check out the 28 second black and white video near the bottom:

http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/oslen1wkd/

I guess others have guessed beaver or otter too.  I don't know much about otters, so I'm sticking with the beaver.  Laughing

"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer

7:37 am
June 6, 2009


Nosfer

Rotaredom

Moderator

posts 2875

I have not seen many otters swimming, but I've seen a LOT of beaver and not one of them has swum with it's head out of the water like that. And especially not with it's neck arched out of the water and it's head forward or even slightly downward. When they swim, the head is diagonaled upwards so the mouth area is the highest portion, and it's a smooth angle for gliding through the water, not an abrupt protrusion like I see in the video. They will sink under like the one in the video, but that's about the extent of the similarities as far as I've seen.

A few I've taken recently:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk136/GH-X/DSCF1215.jpg
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk136/GH-X/DSCF1221.jpg
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk136/GH-X/beaver1.jpg

A moose would have pretty big ears, although they could be "flattened back"

The problem I have with some of the wake suggestion is that in the video it appears and disappears quite distinctly (abruptly) and a ways back from the head portion. A wake would be more fluid and originate more towards the head rather than just appearing/disappearing behind it some distance.

Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.

11:20 am
June 6, 2009


Revenant

Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage"

Lead Investigator

posts 1393

Nosfer said:

I have not seen many otters swimming, but I've seen a LOT of beaver and not one of them has swum with it's head out of the water like that.


Perhaps the beaver has a bad back and is forced to swim that way… Tongue out

Cool pictures by the way.  Thanks for showing them. 

Beaver, otter, moose, dog, deer, log or something more…exotic…it's just hard to tell.  Looking at supposed "lake monster" footage is extremely difficult.  We need distance, depth, current, a look at the bottom of the lake in that area for lay-out and obstructions, etc.  The list just goes on. 

Whatever it is that we're looking at, I must say, I find this infinitely more intriguing than that supposedly old 8mm film of Bigfoot in the cornfield.

And at the very least, the topic has exposed my utter lack of knowledge concerning otters.  I'll have to start studying up on them… Laughing 

"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer

11:25 am
June 6, 2009


Nosfer

Rotaredom

Moderator

posts 2875

Revenant said:

Perhaps the beaver has a bad back and is forced to swim that way… Tongue out

Cool pictures by the way.  Thanks for showing them. 

Beaver, otter, moose, dog, deer, log…it's just hard to tell.  Looking at supposed "lake monster" footage is extremely difficult.  We need distance, depth, current, a look at the bottom of the lake in that area for lay-out and obstructions, etc.  The list just goes on. 

Whatever it is that we're looking at, I must say, I find this infinitely more intriguing than that supposedly old 8mm film of Bigfoot in the cornfield.

And at the very least, the topic has exposed my utter lack of knowledge concerning otters.  I'll have to start studying up on them… Laughing 


LOL, I hear you on the otters! What I find most disappointing (and somewhat suspicious) about the footage is where it ends. I suppose his camera phone ran out of memory at that point, but it would seem rather convenient. There was one post on the site about it not being an animal that was in trouble and I agree with that. There would be a LOT more thrashing around if it was.

Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.

11:44 am
June 6, 2009


Revenant

Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage"

Lead Investigator

posts 1393

Nosfer said:

LOL, I hear you on the otters! What I find most disappointing (and somewhat suspicious) about the footage is where it ends. I suppose his camera phone ran out of memory at that point, but it would seem rather convenient. There was one post on the site about it not being an animal that was in trouble and I agree with that. There would be a LOT more thrashing around if it was.


Agreed.  I really don't like where the film clip stopped so close to the shore.

And reading some of the articles over at Cryptomundo, they keep going on about how the guy who shot the film clip is "over-whelmed" and has gone into hiding.  Seriously?  It's 2009.  You post a film clip of a supposed lake monster and guess what?  It's going to be all over the news and tons of people will be after you for all sorts of information.  To think otherwise is simply childish.  You post it, you live with it.  Stand up and answer the questions!  Get it over with.  Going into hiding makes things worse.

"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer

4:26 pm
June 6, 2009


Leslie

Investigator

posts 157

Nosfer- Thanks for the moose video links. After watching those I really doubt it is a moose. There are no ears, or anything else that makes it look like that kind of head. Also, the 'head' doesn't seem to move around at all (side to side, or up and down) as if an animal is swimming. This leads me back to my original thought of it being a log, or more likely a tree floating. I've seen some big, funky looking logs/trees floating around the lake here where I live, and they can be very deceiving.

8:19 pm
June 6, 2009


Wallydraigle

Ohio

Investigator

posts 114

Well, I'm already Time Magazine's "Person of the Year" for 2006, and I will be eligible to run for president in the 2016 election, so I've accounced my candidacy for that.  I tried to secure a Nobel Peace Prize nomination, but my contacts failed to turn up a professor of social sciences who could throw my name into the hat, so "cryptozoologist" will have to do instead, on my list of pointless wannabee titles.

7:50 am
June 7, 2009


alicat

Lead Investigator

posts 1214

Nosfer,

Thanks for sharing the pictures.  Agreed, not a beaver or otter.  I'm still in the moose camp.  Even if you accept the photos on that website, if you look at the aerial views of the supposed area (appears from the comments there is some discussion if it is the correct area), you can obviously see in that cove the water is not very deep towards the shore.  If you look further up in that same shot, in the approximate direction the arrows show the "creature" moving, you can see a small area where, even though the water around it appears deeper, it shows a definite change in depth.  Ears pinned back while swimming would not be surprising to me at all.  I think that depends on the age/maturity of the animal.

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