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S04E12: Jungle Temple Ghosts; Namibian Night Stalker (05-Apr-2011, 9pm E)

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11:43 am
April 8, 2011


TheBlackLyon

Investigator in Training

posts 20

Revenant said:

I wasn't aware of this.  Can you please link the written interviews or link the video interviews in which he makes these numerous not so subtle references that he is well aware the show is complete bull***? 

Or are you referring to the actual show?  If that is the case, can you please specify which episode and what he said exactly?  I've seen every episode and I don't remember anything like that.  Maybe something got past me. 

Thanks… 


"I think they saw in me someone who wasn't necessarily a crypto guy. They didn't want someone who was going to be an advocate for bigfoot and say, "I know the Loch Ness Monster is out there," and things like that."

"JG: I think that, first of all, sometimes I'm a naysayer in terms of the material and I think that's what makes the show work. I think what you don't want is someone out there who just has this boilerplate attitude where they just believe in everything. I think that makes a show that a lot of people who are skeptical are not going to respond to. I think what makes 'Destination Truth' work is I approach all these stories with a grain of salt and I want to meet these people and hear what they have to say and we really want to get our hands dirty.
"


There's something pulpy and fun and we try to fire on a lot of different cylinders. It's a travel show, sometimes it's a food show and it's definitely an investigation show with mysteries.

What do you think about the Chupacabra?
The Chupacabra is not a real monster.  It’s other things that are killing livestock. I think people are quick to associate any slaughter of farm animals with it.

Do ghosts exist?
Unconvinced.

Well, for me, I’m a skeptic when it comes to the paranormal. I’m really open-minded, I’m always sort of, I guess hoping is probably a good word, because I think that everybody kind of wants to believe that there is something going on in the afterlife.So, I’m always hopeful and I’m open-minded about it, but I don’t have an expectation that I’m ever going to find anything.

I hope these quotes will suffice. To be quite honest I am having a great deal of difficulty in tracking down the one quote in particular I wanted to share with you. It comes from one of the Ghost Hunters Live roundtable discussion that Gates hosted. I want to say it was the Alcatraz special. I'm heavily paraphrasing here, but Gates basically joked that he very grateful that SyFy would actually pay him to travel the world in search of make believe monsters. He went on further and said that he would happily paint the houses of the SyFy executives if it meant he could continue traveling the world on their dime.

Any chance you remember that particular quote? I can't capture the tone of the quote in written words. It was basically going *snicker**snicker*"I can't believe they actually pay me to do this crap"*snicker**snicker*.

12:03 pm
April 8, 2011


Nosfer

Rotaredom

Moderator

posts 2954

Post edited 12:05 pm – April 8, 2011 by Nosfer


"…people ask me, Josh, why do you always host these ghost hunters shows.  And I'll tell you why I host them.  I host them because SciFi channel actually pays for me to travel around the world hunting for monsters.  And, umm, literally, I walk in, I say I'd like to go to the Himalayas…oh how much that cost [pantomimes them writing and handing him a check]…so uh, I would paint their houses if they asked me to."

Nothing about "make-believe monsters"  And really nothing there saying the show is BS.

 

Edited: Formatting.

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1:26 pm
April 8, 2011


Nosfer

Rotaredom

Moderator

posts 2954

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6:42 pm
April 8, 2011


TheBlackLyon

Investigator in Training

posts 20

Nosfer said:

Nothing about "make-believe monsters"  And really nothing there saying the show is BS.


Thanks for tracking down that quote for me Nosfer! When did he say that quote? Was it said during the Alcatraz discussion as I thought?

You're right. He just called them plain old ordinary monsters. I used "make-believe" when attempting to recall and paraphrase his quote. Really though, is it necessary that we make a distinction between the two for the purpose of this discussion ;) Maybe I'm in the minority here, but there is only one kind of "monster" in the Destination Truth sense of the word, and those are all of the make-believe variety.

Using the above quote as an example, it is very telling in the choice of words Gates used as to what exactly he thinks of the paranormal aspects of the show. He could have just as easily said "…travel[ing] around the world hunting for undocumented species." Hell, he could even have said "…hunting for cryptids." Both phrases come off to me much more serious in tone than "…hunting for monsters."

Nosfer said:

And really nothing there saying the show is BS.

I guess what it boils down to then is a personal interpretation of his quotes. When asked why he host the Ghost Hunter shows he doesn't say anything like "because I have an interest in paranormal topics" or even anything remotely close to that. He says its because SyFy pays him well to travel around the world and do so, and would gladly paint their houses instead so long as they continued to pay him well and let him travel.

At least, that is what I take away from it.

 

9:06 pm
April 8, 2011


Nosfer

Rotaredom

Moderator

posts 2954

He's warming up the crowd so he's going to use more "common man" terms, monster vs cryptid, and "undocumented species" just doesn't have the same ring when you're getting a crowd ready. You lose that if you come out and give the technical descriptions of what you are doing.  Adding Make-Believe really does change the equation…if he said that, but he didn't.  That would indicate that he's chasing after things that not only he KNOWS do not exist but which he refers to in a belittling way, but again, he doesn't say that.

Let's look at these quotes.

http://www.cinemaspy.com/Inter…..Truth/4688

"I think they saw in me someone who wasn't necessarily a crypto guy. They didn't want someone who was going to be an advocate for bigfoot and say, "I know the Loch Ness Monster is out there," and things like that."

Just what exactly is wrong with him saying this (other than the implication that all cryptozoologists are rabid believers in every creature reportedly out there)? If you get someone who is a bigfoot advocate, you get someone very Bill-like from FoF. And we see how well that goes. By getting someone who is of Josh's character and belief, as he states here, you would get someone who is, maybe, more "skeptical"? Nothing wrong with that, and there is nothing in the quote above that says "thus, this show is BS."


 

http://www.thefutoncritic.com/…..ationtruth

"JG: I think that, first of all, sometimes I'm a naysayer in terms of the material and I think that's what makes the show work. I think what you don't want is someone out there who just has this boilerplate attitude where they just believe in everything. I think that makes a show that a lot of people who are skeptical are not going to respond to. I think what makes 'Destination Truth' work is I approach all these stories with a grain of salt and I want to meet these people and hear what they have to say and we really want to get our hands dirty."

Naysayer in terms of the material does not at all mean a naysayer of the show, it's more along the lines that he has doubts about a particular creature existing, and sure enough, they have disproved or come up with regular explanations for some things. You definitely don't want someone with the attitude of believing everything, when you have that, you're back to FoF. His statements are really not ones that are open to misinterpretation.  The last sentence (the one containing grain of salt) is probably the one that you see as indicating that he thinks this is all BS.  I don't see it that way, any good investigator is going to take a story with a grain of salt, meaning that he hears it, but wants to prove the veracity of it himself.  Sort of like a lot of us here.

"There's something pulpy and fun and we try to fire on a lot of different cylinders. It's a travel show, sometimes it's a food show and it's definitely an investigation show with mysteries."

I see nothing wrong with this, either, nor does it come across as saying that he doesn't buy into any of it.  It is, in fact, quite an accurate description of the show.  He does add that it is "definitely an investigation show with mysteries" in addition to the "food and travel show."  I agree that the food portion and the unnecessary travel experiences (the vehicle nonsense) are, well, unnecessary but it does show what the "street situation" can be like.  I just don't think they need to dwell on it as much, but I also doesn't think that Josh's admitting that food and travel are a part of the show undermines his feelings for it.


 

http://scifitalk.com/2010/09/0…..onference/

"Well, for me, I’m a skeptic when it comes to the paranormal. I’m really open-minded, I’m always sort of, I guess hoping is probably a good word, because I think that everybody kind of wants to believe that there is something going on in the afterlife.So, I’m always hopeful and I’m open-minded about it, but I don’t have an expectation that I’m ever going to find anything."

Good answer I feel, and one that is what I would look for in someone doing this sort of thing. Going strictly by what he says, he's skeptical (good), open-minded (also good), hoping that there is something else out there (nothing really wrong with that), but no expectation that he's going to find it (no problem with that either, he's going in without preconceived notions). None of those statements give me the impression of someone who thinks that the show is just BS.


 

http://www.weirld.com/Paranorm…..Truth.html

What do you think about the Chupacabra?

The Chupacabra is not a real monster. It’s other things that are killing livestock. I think people are quick to associate any slaughter of farm animals with it.

This is Josh's personal opinion about one particular "monster" (or, cryptid, if you will). It says nothing other than what his personal belief is about the Chupacabra and in no way comes across as him appearing to think that the entire field of cryptozoology or a show centered on such is a joke or BS.

Do ghosts exist?

Unconvinced.

Same answer would be given by everyone here probably. It means Josh has not seen any evidence that they do. If you read the FOLLOW UP question that he was asked which is "Really? Why?" Josh responds, saying:

"I’ve never had an experience that left me feeling as though it was….I mean, everyone has had those experiences where they think they hear something, see something or feel a certain thing, but it’s so difficult to make the leap and say ‘it’s a ghost.’ The whole notion of ghosts is something that is so hard to substantiate and I haven’t had an experience that’s left me with that kind of faith. I would love to believe that there are supernatural, paranormal things in the world. I think that would make the world a more interesting place. I just don’t know if they’re there."

That's a pretty darn good answer. I think it is the sentiment felt by a lot of people here. But we, too, are still here, some of us are still looking for answers of more out there. This in no way makes him out as one who thinks that what he is doing is BS, it's more that he's out there looking for the answers that he (and others, even here) still want to know.

In none of the shows have they made any definite pronouncements that a certain creature exists.  The closest could be the Yeti instance.  They have left some as "open ended" and several they have dismissed based upon findings.  The one I have the contention with is the Sloth which they could have dismissed before going to Panama.

It's not really a matter so much of interpretation as reading the entire set of interviews and seeing what he says in their full context and not reading things into it that are not there.

We here are skeptical and answer the descriptions of a lot of what Josh describes (unconvinced, wanting proof, etc)  I, for one, am open-minded (another of Josh's descriptions) and if there were reports of a particular creature in some place, I would be first in line to investigate because we do NOT know everything.  And even if the possibility of its existence were slim, going there to explain what something is NOT is also quite a useful endeavour, as well.

Nothing of what I see in the above interviews comes across as "not so subtle references … that he is well aware the show is complete bull****"  Even if he DID feel that, he's not going to come out and say that in an interview (especially in a not so subtle way)  He does like the traveling and he's not going to do anything to jeopardize that.

Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.

11:55 am
April 12, 2011


Revenant

Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage"

Lead Investigator

posts 1393

A thanks to TheBlackLyon for explaining his position on why he thought that Josh Gates has, essentially, come out and said that DT is complete BS.

Another thanks to Nosfer for beating me to the punch and proving that Gates has, to my knowledge, never come out and said that.

By not being a "crypto guy," the idea was that Gates was the normal/ideally skeptical charismatic host of a paranormal show. Yes, getting a paycheck to travel the world and needlessly jump out of helicopters…sign me up too. So calling the show BS would not be the brightest move in the world.  Calling a shadow a ghost is one thing…destroying your livelihood…that is something else entirely.

Do not get me wrong.  There are many aspects that I do not care for when it comes to DT.  I've also seen a nasty progression of weirdness and sloppiness since the first few shows.  I mean pick a DT thread and odds are either Nosfer or myself are pointing out such things (don't even get me started on their use of the FLIR or that nonsense in Romania…"Circle of Death"…pffft…).

Whether Gates believes in whatever or not is really immaterial.  One can still produce an entertaining show…which I think it still is.  And one can also still do a good job and present things in an honest and intelligent manner…and that is where they are falling woefully short.  The show is spirally down a sink hole of bad science and becoming an affront to common sense.  This is where SV should and has been focusing.  Does Gates believe?  Don't care.  Is he portraying an event inaccurately or "going with it" for positive paranormal results?  That…I do care about.

And with all of that being said…I would leave with this:

I would rather watch a show where the host thought that the paranormal was complete BS.  This would at least be a new take on it.  Maybe then every shadow wouldn't be a ghost and every sound out in the woods wouldn't be Bigfoot.  Of course, the downside would be that this show would be viewed as "skeptical."  It would be the polar opposite of when J&G claim to be skeptics.  Both would be an incorrect example of being skeptical…

"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer

9:24 am
April 13, 2011


Eric

Guest

Also, consider the narrative epilogue Josh gives after his searches yield no definitive results…."Perhaps this creature in the sky could be just a large bird that residents are…."  "…a large dog could be the reason natives fear…."

 

All in all, he has more personality and class than 4 ghost shows put together (GA, GHI, GH…AND yes…the evil college coeds: Paranormal State)

8:13 pm
April 17, 2011


Buffy

Investigator

posts 92

If Rex was really in danger, why didn't Kyle drop the camera to help?  He just kept filming and yelling for Chris.  Right there, that tells me he was never in real danger.

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