The Forum [is where Ancient Roman skeptics hang out.]

Current User: Guest Login Register
Please consider registering


Lost Your Password?

S04E09: St Patrick's Day Live (note time)

Reply to Post
UserPost

9:53 am
March 17, 2011


Nosfer

Rotaredom

Moderator

posts 2954

Live from Ireland….it's St Patrick's Night. Note, this starts at 7 Eastern/5 Mountain rather than the usual 9 Eastern/7 Mountain…so you can't blame/thank me if you miss the first two hours Laugh

This episode will answer the great mystery of all time: How does SciFi number it's seasons? I originally said this live show was the start of the new season. Then SciFi and others tagged it as a continuation of Season 4…a mid season premiere, if you will. Now SciFi is calling this a New Season in the title and in the blurb it's Season 4.5 Premiere. Maybe by the time they get into the next episodes they will figure out what they are doing.

Anyway, in this 4-Hour Live event, Josh and the regular crew (not that anyone other than Josh is really a "regular" on this show) are joined by Guest Stars Barry and Kris of GHI, Jael of FoF (and formerly of DT) and Allison Scagliotti, former guest star of some South American DT episode…oh, and there to advertise her hit SciFi show. The "regulars" include Josh, Ryder, Rex, Gabe, and Allie. Two others, a Chris Lore and Kyle Wheeler, also appear or take part, but they are the Case Manager and another Cameraman (who gets less publicity than Gabe) so many may not recognize their names.

The prey in this episode is the Banshee of Ireland. Well, one of them, anyway, as there were more than one Banshee in the legends. The Banshee legend itself has changed over time and originally was one of the fairy folk simply lamenting the death of people who were of a certain level of importance. As time went on, though, the Banshee became a misfortune-teller and an omen signaling the imminent death of someone.

The Banshee has many forms, some of them not as beautiful as others. Interestingly (especially for an investigation where hints offer as much as proof) the Banshee is most often heard and not always seen. So, this brings to mind the wind as a possible source. If there is a wind that is heard and someone dies then it has to be the Banshee. If the wind is heard and no one dies, then the incident is usually forgotten and only the former makes it's way into legend. 

The Team searches for the Banshee at Duckett's Grove castle in County Carlow where local townsfolk will probably hide just out of range and make wailing noises before running laughing to the nearest purveyor of spirits (the liquid type).

Since the banshee fortells death (at least in the later legends) then I imagine it would be best that they DON'T find anything and expect to hear that at some point during the investigation, possibly as a nervous joke from Josh.

If anyone here would like to do some research and see what they can come up with as far as this place being haunted, please do…I've found nothing so far but the more eyes the better.

The team was also supposed to investigate the cliff ruins of Dunluce Castle which, to me, might be of more interest, though not necessarily from a paranormal standpoint. The Castle is on cave-filled cliffs that are reputed to have been inhabited from the earliest of times as evidenced by some of the axes found there dating to several thousand years ago. This Castle is in County Antrim and is nowhere near Duckett's Grove (in County Carlow) so I assume the teams split up and we go back and forth between them through the night.

Unlike Duckett's Grove Castle, Dunluce does have a history of hauntings including the required White Lady who wanders the remains of the ruins. She is thought to be the daughter of a family who lived there who fell to her death trying to climb out a window using tied bedsheets in an attempt to meet her lover whom her father forbade her to marry.  Sound familiar? 

This part of the investigation is no longer shown, although ruins do still appear in the previews so only time will tell.  Maybe they thought two places would be too much.

Drinking opportunities for tonight are:

  • Anytime Josh repeats the same word three times in a row in quick succession
  • Anytime there is a clip that shows one of the guests participating in a previous DT investigation
  • Anytime Josh puts on a fake Irish accent.  A chug if it's to utter some stupid phrase that includes "lucky charms"
  • Anytime Barry speaks without subtitles. An extra swig if you actually understand what he said.
  • Any reference to the Irish and Drinking
  • Anytime there is a shameless plug of another SciFi show that one of the guests is in
  • Dodge!

Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.

12:17 pm
March 17, 2011


Lindy

Guest

Nosfer said:

 Now SciFi is calling this a New Season in the title and in the blurb it's Season 4.5 Premiere.


 Are they really plugging it as the "Season 4.5 Premiere"?

That's sounds like a ridiculous attempt to drum up interest.

Similar to those furniture stores using any reason to call it a "Sale"

"It's the Andrew Jackson's Neighbor's Veterinarian's Uncle's Birthday Sale"

12:19 pm
March 17, 2011


Lindy

Guest

Nosfer said:

Drinking opportunities for tonight are:

  • Anytime Josh repeats the same word three times in a row in quick succession

 Plus an extra snort if it goes to commercial immediately afterwards.

5:34 pm
March 17, 2011


hyacinth

Investigator

posts 122

Found this article from Ireland

http://www.independent.ie/nati…..81119.html

 

6:52 pm
March 17, 2011


blinddog

Special Agent Zombie Elimination Agency

Moderator

posts 857

45 minutes in and I'm already tired of looking up everyone's nostrils.

Are they that special hue of green for St. Paddy's Day?

Double tap to the head. Don't become Undead.

7:10 pm
March 17, 2011


Nosfer

Rotaredom

Moderator

posts 2954

Post edited 7:12 pm – March 17, 2011 by Nosfer


Nice to see that they are showing the Dunluce Castle portion, apparently that was investigated ahead of time and wasn't supposed to be part of the Live Show.

Edited: Well, short-lived but at least we got to see some of it, seemed a bit more interesting though that could be because that was the clip they chose to show.  Maybe some more later on.

Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.

8:02 pm
March 17, 2011


Buffy

Investigator

posts 92

I was trying to find some more on Duckett Grove hauntings for you Nosfer, but really, I didn't come up with much either. However, I did find a History Press is planning a book on Carlow County, where the castle is located, is trying to put together local ghost stories.  I found a forum "Carlow related ghost stories and legends" and someone poses the question about the haunting of Duckett Castle, and no one said they heard anything. 

2 hours in and this has been a boring investigation in which it seems that they are trying very hard to make it exciting. Yawn!  I thought a banshee was supposed to have a really high pitched scream. The "screams" that they were hearing sounded more like crows then banshees.  

8:12 pm
March 17, 2011


blinddog

Special Agent Zombie Elimination Agency

Moderator

posts 857

At this point they should take a clue from the suicidal crow.

Double tap to the head. Don't become Undead.

1:28 am
March 18, 2011


Revenant

Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage"

Lead Investigator

posts 1393

I saw the 4 hour special.  Just a few quick observations:

- Kris brought up a pretty good question.  If one truly believes in the Banshee…then going after it is quite unwise since it involves curses and death not only to you, but members of your family as well.  So…it begs to be asked…if you don't believe in the Banshee and its curse…what are you chasing again?

- I want to see Jael paired up with Susan from GHI for an investigation.  It would be an awesome display of one-up-manship.  "I feel sick."  "I feel really sick."  "I just felt a hand on me."  "I felt two hands on me."  "I just saw a ghost."  "I just saw a Banshee and two ghosts."

- "The Banshee Button" rates right up there with the "Bat-phone" in both usefulness and coolness.

- I like Ryder's new hair style.  The long bangs help to…"soften" her.  When I say "she's more manly than I am"…I mean it as a compliment…yet…it just doesn't sound like one, does it?  But it does seem to capture her.  Hopefully the new "do" will, like I said, soften her.

- I have a 52" HD wide-screen…and I couldn't see the mist/half person image in the photo that they kept showing.  Could anyone else?  I mean really…52 inches of HD…I should see something.  Then again…I rarely ever see anything in these photo's or hear the EVP's.  Never sure if that would make me a good or a bad paranormal investigator…  

"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer

8:32 am
March 18, 2011


Nosfer

Rotaredom

Moderator

posts 2954

Revenant said:

- Kris brought up a pretty good question.  If one truly believes in the Banshee…then going after it is quite unwise since it involves curses and death not only to you, but members of your family as well.  So…it begs to be asked…if you don't believe in the Banshee and its curse…what are you chasing again?

- I want to see Jael paired up with Susan from GHI for an investigation.  It would be an awesome display of one-up-manship.  "I feel sick."  "I feel really sick."  "I just felt a hand on me."  "I felt two hands on me."  "I just saw a ghost."  "I just saw a Banshee and two ghosts."

- I have a 52" HD wide-screen…and I couldn't see the mist/half person image in the photo that they kept showing.  Could anyone else?  I mean really…52 inches of HD…I should see something.  Then again…I rarely ever see anything in these photo's or hear the EVP's.  Never sure if that would make me a good or a bad paranormal investigator…  


 

A few thoughts on the Banshee-chasing.  Some of it would depend upon which legend you were following.  Is the Banshee the cause of or a reaction to a death.  If it foretells the death, then one could say that it was going to happen anyway and whether or not you were chasing it wouldn't matter.  But then there was that whole "comb" thing which seemed to indicate a vengeful Banshee that made it's own choices. 

Jael and Susan…I think I'd be sick before either of them were, just from watching it!

The figure.  I couldn't see anything for the longest time and then realized they were spending an inordinate amount of time on the BEFORE picture in the series.  When they showed the actual photo of interest, I DID see a shadow of a somewhat upright person, er, thing.  Something triggered the trap-camera since it's motion-sensitive so as long as we rule out any foul-play on the part of the team, then something triggered it.

Regarding "foul-play" I did not see any of that last night although I did see a lot of hyping themselves up and leaving themselves wide open for suggestion and jumping to conclusions that shouldn't have been jumped to.

I wonder if, with all the noise and traipsing around, one of the raven/crow population got active (they would usually be roosted at this time, but they did wake up the pigeons, so…) and flew down quickly and back up.  Having done a LOT of bird photography, I've seen birds doing that many times and it had a very familiar look to me in that regard, and we know such birds were around there.  Would be nice to have seen the next photo in the series….would that have been asking too much?  Or did an owl (which would be hunting at night) find a mouse lol

Figure in the tower on the photograph.  There was nothing there that I could see.  Not in the photo nor in the live shots of it where they were saying something was in the window below Jael.

Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.

11:35 am
March 18, 2011


Revenant

Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage"

Lead Investigator

posts 1393

Nosfer said:  

A few thoughts on the Banshee-chasing.  Some of it would depend upon which legend you were following.  Is the Banshee the cause of or a reaction to a death.  If it foretells the death, then one could say that it was going to happen anyway and whether or not you were chasing it wouldn't matter.  But then there was that whole "comb" thing which seemed to indicate a vengeful Banshee that made it's own choices. 


 

 

Oh right…just having a bit of fun.  To me, the Banshee lies somewhere in between old Irish tradition of "keeners (women singing a lament at funerals, thus singing or loud sounds signifying death)" and that of the Celtic war deity Morrigan.  If anyone is into mythology, please add Morrigan (or Mor-Rioghain) to your reading list.  A very colorful and complex character.  In fact, recently some scholars have been trying to attribute her to the Arthurian character of Morgan le Fay.  I have a few friends who both study and teach mythology and oddly enough all are against this new notion. 

In any event Nosfer, you did a nice job in trying to explain what a Banshee is…which, is actually a bit difficult to narrow down.  I mean throw in the three different forms (attributed to "triple aspects" of that godess of war and death; Badhbh, Macha and Morrigan…I told you it was interesting…) and start tossing in aspects from the "Dames Blanches" from France and the "Washer women" from Germany and then just add in typical ghost type elements…it becomes a mess.

It's a shame that they didn't delve a bit more into that aspect.  It would have been nice to really seperate the myths and legends, find what is uniquely Irish and then possibly propose some idea of how some of those things got started.  The information is out there.  I mean I knew this stuff just off the top of my head (I did check for spelling on names though)…just think of what an expert can tell them.

"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer

12:00 pm
March 18, 2011


Nosfer

Rotaredom

Moderator

posts 2954

One also thinks of the legend of La Llorona and the various similar legends throughout the world and throughout time.  The wailing/lamenting woman is almost a universal concept.  Philippines, the Aztecs, Scandanavia etc.  Think of "The White Lady" that is so common in Ghost Stories.  I think GHI has gone to several places that involve such a being.

When you consider both the lamentor aspect and the vengeful aspect, there are a lot of parallels in many other cultures around the world.

I mentioned raven or crow above in regards to the picture. Ironically, the crow is one of the forms the Banshee has taken depending upon what legends you read.

Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.

3:20 am
March 19, 2011


Revenant

Hopelessly Locked In A "Fear Cage"

Lead Investigator

posts 1393

Nosfer said:

When you consider both the lamentor aspect and the vengeful aspect, there are a lot of parallels in many other cultures around the world.


 

Absolutely.  That's why I really wanted an expert…a REAL expert to talk about it.  Not some "ghost story guy"….but perhaps a professor of mythology.  It would have been nice.  Sometimes Wiki doesn't have all the answers… Laugh

Back to the special itself…I didn't think it was bad.  I think they learned a thing or two from both GH and actually GA.  The GH live specials…they do tend to stand around a lot and "feel" a room or whatever.  Even though they have many teams, there is little sense of movement.

GA came along a changed that.  Say what you will about them or their special (like the guest throwing his recorder down the hallway… Laugh ) but they did move around a great deal.  They gave you a sense of exploration.

I think this is what DT learned.  Keep moving.  Give a sense that the place is HUGE, there is a TON of activity, and they probably can't get everything in the four hour time limit.  Of course, that's an illusion, but still…it's a good one.  They may not have been finding a lot, but at least they had that sense of exploration.  For what they do…in all honesty, I'm not sure if the show could have gone better.  They had good timing, switched around enough to avoid teams "in route" to locations, people "kind of got hurt," they came up with some evidence…I don't think that you can ask for more.

If I were to change only one aspect…it would be to get a stronger leader for the second squad.  I don't know that guy's name….but he was kind of annoying and really jumpy.  He certainly heard more and saw more than anyone else…which, of course, raises all kinds of red flags.  I would dump him in a heartbeat.

"Skepticism is not a position, it's a process." -Dr Michael Shermer

10:36 am
March 19, 2011


Nosfer

Rotaredom

Moderator

posts 2954

I think Rex was leading the second team.  Not the best choice, I'd probably have put Ryder in charge of it.  I really did not care for her earlier on in the series but she got her act together and has really improved.

Yes, Wiki sometimes doesn't have all the answers…in fact a lot of times it doesn't.  I don't particularly care for it as a source since there is no real vetting of the people who write things there.  Heck, even I have stuff in Wiki somewhere lol  Not to get too far off track but what really soured me on Wiki was what I saw happen with the global warming business a while back.  People coming in and deleting things because it went against their belief, then other people coming back and putting things in and deleting things the first group wrote etc.  I sometimes consider it to be mob-reference.  Less controversial topics are not as bad, but whenever I look there, I usually try to confirm from another source not associated with it.

Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.

12:30 pm
March 20, 2011


Oubliette

Igloo in NJ

Lead Investigator

posts 574

OK, I'm going to start off by saying I enjoyed the show.  Maybe because without having any expectations except entertainment, there was nothing to disappoint.

I was very glad to see Ryder back (and yes, Rev, her new hairdo is nice; almost didn't recognize her at first).  She's really tough, more so than Jael, and is more of an adventuress.  Not that I minded Jael being there.  She's a bit harder to take after seeing her on F or F, knowing the silliness that goes on with that show.  She did climb up that tower and seemed genuinely frightened up there, although she still pressed on when hearing noises.  More about that later.

My husband and I both burst out laughing when Kris W. asked "Why are we looking for the banshee" given her association with death.  My own thoughts had been running along those lines also.

At least the whole show wasn't devoted to the banshee, but was a paranormal investigation as well.  That place, even after the fire, still was very interesting to see.  And it looked just plain creepy, like it SHOULD be haunted.  Agree again with Revenant, the way the show was done, they were able to fill up the four hours using a technique that kept them moving.

Josh (and probably the rest as well) definitely are city folk.  The noises they were hearing could easily have been put down to any of the curious animals that inhabit the countryside after dark.  Most of us are not familar with them since they are rarely seen.  And I have heard many a strange, human like cry that would definitely startle anyone, esp. coming from the woods.  One night outside there was a weird call that seemed to be everywhere.  I could not pinpoint its location except that it sounded all around me.  Thinking back, it may have been a bird flying around my position, which would explain why its source could not be pinpointed.  Don't know why the DT team didn't think of that but, again, they seem to be city folk despite their outdoor adventures.

We didn't see the "figure" until it was actually pointed out to the audience.  Did look like a mist of some kind but I couldn't really make out a human shape.

About Jael being sent alone on that awful climb to the tower–first off, a big no-no in such a situation.  Too easy to take a missed step and get injured.  Does anyone else get the impression she was a bit pissed during a good part of the show, and especially the solo tower part?  She was very believable about the noises going on just under her position and anyone would be somewhat freaked out by the whole situation.

But have to admit-I think some of that was, well, not faked, but there was more to it than was shown.  I don't think she made her way down by herself, or even maybe up as well.  IMO there was someone there, unseen, who was with her both during her trek up and then back down whatever one can call that staircase/ladder.  She did get down quickly in order to make it to the final group shot. 

In fact, there was an interview with Josh about two years ago during a SyFy event in NYC.  It sticks in my mind because of what he said.  After stating that he was thinking of how to answer the question (about the dangerous aspects of an investigation) without rattling the legal department, he did say something to the effect that things weren't as scary as they looked and they are rarely in any actual danger.  How to interpret that–well, I take it that matters are more under control and that there may be people who are never seen on camera monitoring their progress.

To sum up this overly windy post, the entire four hours was, to me, worth watching.  It was good to see Josh and also Ryder, Jael (really) and even Gabe.  Rex is OK, I'm glad he's there to led a medical hand and I've sort of gotten used to him being around. The woman from Warehouse 13 (oh how I hate these crossover guests) somehow gets on my nerves.  It's a personality thing.

There is no way I could stomach 4 hours of GH.  DT again outdoes them in the entertainment department, and they do tackle many a challenging place that GH wouldn't have the guts, or the ability, to take on.

Final Oubliette rating: A

 

 

 

 

If 50 million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.
Anatole France

1:27 pm
March 20, 2011


Nosfer

Rotaredom

Moderator

posts 2954

Oubliette said:

About Jael being sent alone on that awful climb to the tower–first off, a big no-no in such a situation.  Too easy to take a missed step and get injured.  Does anyone else get the impression she was a bit pissed during a good part of the show, and especially the solo tower part?  She was very believable about the noises going on just under her position and anyone would be somewhat freaked out by the whole situation.

But have to admit-I think some of that was, well, not faked, but there was more to it than was shown.  I don't think she made her way down by herself, or even maybe up as well.  IMO there was someone there, unseen, who was with her both during her trek up and then back down whatever one can call that staircase/ladder.  She did get down quickly in order to make it to the final group shot. 


 

There was a cameraman filming her going up but I think that was the extent of it.  With zoom he can appear to be a lot closer than he actually was, and in her shots going up, of which we saw a good portion of her ascent, there did not appear to be any assistance being given to her.  I would imagine the same going down as two people on a rickity staircase would be worse than one.

The sounds under her position could very well have been the cameraman walking around below her.  I still did not see anything in that window the multiple times they showed it, nor in the picture that was supposed to be so amazing.

I wouldn't call the figure by the steps/entryway (the first one that the trap cam got) a mist, looked very solid to me and probably quite natural given the animals that we know were around there.

Lack of guts or ability of GH might be a little unkind to them, they did, afterall, investigate Leap Castle and the environs when given the opportunity, which was a similar type of setting to this.

Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.

3:39 pm
March 24, 2011


Nosfer

Rotaredom

Moderator

posts 2954

Not too good for a Live show AND a "Half Season Premiere":

0.926 million viewers

Legal: The content of this post is copyrighted and is intended exclusively for use on skepticalviewer.com It may not be copied, distributed, or redisplayed on any other site without the express written consent of the author.

Reply to Post


Reply to Topic:
S04E09: St Patrick's Day Live (note time)

Guest Name (Required):

Guest Email (Required):

Smileys
Confused Cool Cry Embarassed Frown Kiss Laugh Smile Surprised Wink Yell
Post New Reply

Guest URL (required)

Math Required!
What is the sum of:
8 + 3
   



Permalink Print
Copyright 2010 SkepticalViewer.com - The Ghost Hunters Fansite for Skeptics