April 30, 2009
GH: Essex County Hospital
This place is impressively huge, which of course means that Jay & Grant should take the opportunity to bring some extra investigators on board but will they? Well actually they did, for once their inclusion of additional team members coincided with the enormity of the task at hand. In this case, the definition of "enormity" is something on the order of 356 acres, with 35 acres of just buildings, most of which are apparently interconnected by a system of underground tunnels. Duly impressive by any standard. From a ghost hunting perspective the number of reported deaths on the premises may be more impressive yet: over 10,000 — although that number did seem to be anecdotal and no one seemed determined to nail down a firmer number through research.
Essex County Hospital was a mental institution that housed mentally ill people, including the criminally insane, from about 1895 until the final operations were closed down in 2007. The entire complex is going to be razed and converted into a park so this investigation is likely to be the last ghost hunt to take place there. It also means there isn't any financial incentive to be concerned about biasing results, as some would argue there is for cases involving active tourist destinations such as restaurants and hotels.
The extra help mentioned earlier came in the form of the inestimable Britt Griffith of California, who recently gave the TAPS team a new set of toys in the form of extremely sensitive vibration detectors which can be used to help document footsteps and the like. Also joining the team was Joe Chin, late of Ghost Hunters International. It would seem that although Joe now has a regular spot with GHI he's still subject to loan back to TAPS in the US, which is fine by me. Poor Joe seemed to have gone a year or more being underutilized. All things being equal though, I'd trade just about any regular TAPS team member for Britt Griffith coming on full time. Not only does he have a very cool name but he seems to take his investigating seriously and obviously can think of new and creative ways to document activity — which is pretty much the most important thing a TAPS investigator can do, otherwise the home audience is just left listening to a bunch of personal experiences and that defeats the entire purpose of the show (and the team).
Right from the start of the investigation there was a lot of activity in the form of errant sounds. Jay & Grant started the night off down in one of the tunnels and began hearing what Jay described as the sound of a cart being rolled around. They happened upon such a cart (but one without wheels), caught a couple of odd heat signatures on the FLIR briefly and heard some sort of yell or scream. Now, as for the thermal footage I was less than impressed simply because these were very faint, small and amorphous heat signatures caught at a distance. They could have been a reflection or a rat, either is likely and neither is ghostly. The yell/scream is another matter entirely: I heard absolutely no such noise on the production audio and we were not presented with any version of this event during the reveal. I'm left to assume that either Jay & Grant are "hearing things" in the uncomplimentary sense of the term, or they're making it up, or neither and they're just really poorly organized and forgot to show the client (and their audience) a key piece of evidence. No matter what the explanation, I find myself feeling a familiar sense of disappointment.
As Jay was giving an interview to the camera about this series of events suddenly there were some very loud sounds, perhaps footsteps, coming from the area behind his camera operator. These sounds were audible, loud even, but there didn't appear to be anyone in the vicinity. For me this is when the investigation really got started because not only was this something verifiable but it began a long pattern of events that seemed to last the entire evening and include just about every investigative team.
On the 2nd floor of Building 5 Steve and Tango began hearing a loud clatter that came and went without explanation. Steve set up a directional microphone on the floor, carefully placing it on an overturned food tray but when they decided to leave the area and Steve retrieved the device it was in a different position from where he had placed it despite no one else being in the vicinity. Elsewhere Joe & Britt heard some sounds and possibly even a moan coming from a bathroom but there was nothing inside. Moving further down a hall Britt saw something in the distance move across the hallway. Moments later Joe saw movement as well. Luckily the entire time Joe had a camcorder dutifully running and pointing in the relevant directions; unfortunately since none of the footage was played during the reveal we're left to assume it did not record the alleged moan, nor did it record the alleged movement down the hallway despite the fact that Joe clearly had the camcorder pointed in that direction during both reported sightings. The clattering sounds were definite real, but I'm forced to put all the rest down to an overactive imagination and/or the human mind trying to cope with low-light vision. As for Steve's microphone, it was on a little bi-pod, maybe it just fell over. Maybe one of them accidentally knocked it over when they walked past. All I know for sure is that as the most impressive piece of evidence actually captured from the above-described events, it's not particularly impressive at all.
We do see Kris Williams investigating briefly with Joe Chin. They hear what they believe to be footsteps but are unable to determine the source. Props to someone for actually having a cross-gender investigation team on TAPS for once, assuming of course that Joe is a guy. JUST KIDDING JOE. Anyway, I doubt it's the beginning of a trend but who knows?
In Building 3 Jay & Grant were investigating when they both heard what Grant described as a "very clear" female voice. Not surprisingly, apparently this "very clear" voice was not captured by either the production audio or any of Jay & Grant's handheld recording devices because we never get to hear any such sound. Yet, as Grant is giving an interview to the camera about the experience, like Jay earlier he is suddenly interrupted by an odd sound that is clearly audible. Again, the best way I can describe the sound is a "clatter", and once again as they tried to determine the origin of the noise the sound stopped and we were left with a continued mystery. One thing that bothered me in particular here though is they believed the sound might be coming from the attic and potentially from rodents or other warm-blooded houseguests of the uninvited variety, however the FLIR camera was notably absent. Have they been using it for the first hour or so of each investigation and then getting bored and putting it away for the rest of the evening? I'm not entirely certain. Surely it can be of more use than TAPS has been putting it to though.
The brightest moment of this investigation for me came when Jay & Grant unveiled an honest-to-goodness Helmet-Cam, strapped it onto Britt and sent him completely solo down into the tunnels. Many, many diehard fans have been asking for this for a long, long time and maybe we'll see more of it. Maybe. They described it as a prototype and Britt reported it was a little top-heavy — we'll just have to hope this was an honest step towards having Helmet-Cams become a major part of investigations and not just a one-time attempt to appease critics. While wearing the camera we unfortunately still did not hear the footsteps or voices Britt reported hearing (although we did hear him describing what he was experiencing). The audio and video both seemed up to standards for the show though, perhaps even slightly superior. I don't doubt Britt actually might have been hearing footsteps and voices either, because he randomly wandered straight into Steve and Tango. I file that under: yet another reason to suspect TAPS investigators don't really know for sure where other investigators are at any given time (as they often claim no one else was in the building, etc). In this case, Steve & Tango seemed just as surprised to see Britt as he was to see them.
Back in Building 3, Kris & Amy were on the 2nd floor when they began hearing loud noises they described as "scurrying". The nature of the sound changed slightly as they moved closes to find the source. The sound died off, then became more pronounced (not unlike some of the "clatter" heard by other teams in various locations. Despite (I would say legitimate) fears that some animal was going to jump out and attack them, Kris & Amy succeeded where other teams had failed and actually found the source of this particular mystery noise: vertical blinds rattling in the wind. It's worth noting that Jay & Grant were in Building 3 during one of their experiences (when Grant's interview was interrupted) and I wager it's entirely possible these very same vertical blinds may have been responsible for that anomalous sound as well.
Towards the end of the night Steve & Tango may have been feeling the hour because Steve suggested Dave climb into a body drawer and have himself rolled into the morgue freezer. Steve shut the door to the drawer behind Tango, apparently latching it, before jumping into the adjacent drawer himself and apparently latching his own door shut. I can only hope he spoke to the camera operator about letting him out afterwards because it seems a little reckless for someone to just been jumping into a body drawer and latching himself in. Do those things have a handle on the inside to let yourself out with? My gut says no, but it never worked in a morgue so I can't say for sure.
After the investigation, with all the extra equipment used by the additional team members and set up around the enormous area of the investigation site, Steve and Tango were still the only two people reviewing the evidence. This boggles the mind primarily because they have so many people, because GHI often uses a four-person review team and because Steve & Tango just sat in with GHI during their evidence review on last week's program — yet, no. TAPS has two guys reviewing a veritable boatload of evidence. Heck, maybe that's the real reason why we have no audio of "very clear" voices, moans, or video of shadows moving in hallways. Maybe it's because Jay & Grant can't be bothered to participate in or at least delegate the job to an adequate workforce and instead expect two guys to get through all that evidence quickly and without missing anything.
The bulk of the evidence that was caught was this: an EVP supposedly saying "children" or something similar (I'd give it a 6.5/10), an EVP Steve & Tango caught in the body drawer (sounds more like whistling to me and could easily be mechanical background noise of some kind), and the disappearing heat signature on the thermal from the beginning of the night (as discussed, not really impressive). Knowing TAPS I wouldn't have put it past them to label the place haunted based on that alone. They didn't expressly include all the clatter throughout the night as one of their reasons for declaring the place haunted, which is just as well since we can be reasonably certain what wasn't caused by vertical blinds was caused by other mundane events. What really put them over the edge for sure though was one of the stationary cameras was lifted up and knocked over.
Now, I'd like to note this isn't the first time a camera has been moved by a "spirit" during a TAPS investigation. Personally I find it curious that although we've seen a couple of objects move over the years (like a picture frame and a jacket collar) we've never seen any other object move as freely and wildly as when a "spirit" decides to fiddle with one of the cameras. My personal guess is it's because the "spirit" is much more comfortable moving objects when it knows no one can see it or any potential strings or wires. Yes, I'm saying it's a lot easier to walk up behind a camera, pick it up and move it around than it is to convincingly move a picture frame around on camera without people realizing it's tied to a piece of fishing line. When I see a camera move instead of all the other potential objects in the room it begs the question: why the camera and not something else? If the perpetrator is a spirit then I have no answer, but if the object in question was moved by a person then suddenly we're presented with a very obvious answer.
Also, while the camera is being moved about at one point in the upper-left corner of the frame for a brief moment we see an object that might be a hand coming in front of the lens. Grant actually states that the camera is put down on the ground "gently", although Jason immediately disputes this. I would say it is a certainty that the camera was laid on the ground far more gently than if someone had simply kicked the stand and knocked it over under it's own weight. One might even suspect the entity moving the camera wanted to be sure the camera didn't break when it fell. I had no idea ghosts were so considerate.
From a pro-TAPS standpoint I would say this investigation was fairly banal with the lone exception of the unveiling of the Helmet-Cam. Overall though I thought this investigation was a real gem. We have tons of reported sights and sounds which are either not recorded despite recording equipment being running and pointing in the right direction, or just completely missed by the team reviewing the evidence. We have repeated, very loud, noises happening all over the complex that no one can seem to track down or explain, except the women (who are normally only trusted to investigate with other women) actually discover at least one set of sounds, probably two and possibly even more were just caused by vertical blinds — something every other team was apparently incapable of discovering. Then we get to close the episode out with a floating camera! We've seen enough to mistrust some members of TAPS even to behave honestly during a live, unedited investigation with cameras all over them — now we're supposed to believe some camera that was off where no one could see it, with no teams investigating nearby (and therefore no potential witnesses) was moved by a ghost as opposed to a known hoaxer? Thank you, I'll pass!
Yes, from a pro-TAPS standpoint this investigation was rather borish, but overall I found it to be hilarious, poignant and one might even go so far as to say embarrassing for TAPS. I mean, think about it: Just based on all of the evidence they didn't collect, it's downright embarrassing. It would seem that their investigators are hearing and seeing all sorts of things that aren't there, and they don't seem to look back afterwards and think maybe that's a problem — and that's what's really embarrassing. It reveals that the collection of evidence and the very idea of scientifically investigating potential hauntings is really just a farce and the real goal is actually to wander around in a creepy building and get an adrenalin rush from scaring themselves in the dark, like a bunch of teenagers except pretending to do something scientific.
Filed under Ghost Hunters, Posts by Logisti
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Comments on GH: Essex County Hospital »
John Galt @ 6:49 pm
I almost fainted when I saw them trot out the "Helmet Cam". Now, will they actually utilize it on a regular basis - or toss it back in the van and "forget" about it?
And, unless I was still stunned from the new device being introduced, I don't think that I caught a "sweetheart" or "sweetie" - maybe if I review the EVP work…
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alicat @ 7:21 pm
@ John Galt: checked - no "sweetheart" or "sweetie"! But, notice the SUV ride assignments: J&G plus Kris, Steve & Tango as usual, Amy, Britt and Joe with room for one more. Why wasn't Kris with her good friends Amy, Britt and Joe? Interesting.
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alicat @ 8:42 pm
Just finished watching again. Let me repeat my now favorite quote from Grant:
"I have to say, there's something going on here."
Yes Grant, there is going on here and it's the biggest bunch of BS I've ever seen. That was another hour of my life I'll never get back. Supposed voices they hear (but we don't), personal experiences (we never actually see except for Steve & Tango bumping into Britt) and, the pronouncement by Grant that the "strongest" evidence was the camera "falling" to the ground? Are you kidding me?
The tip off had to be the Assistant Administrator almost pleading before the cameras for them to find everything and yet "everything" he presents turns out to be the interview with the fireman who said when he went to reset the master fire alarm box that had been tripped he "saw a black apparition … head and shoulders and stuff you didn't really see legs and feet"; around the corner from the fire boxes, the Asst. Admin. said he was overcome by "this electrical energy"; "somebody grabbed my side" followed by the guy holding both sides of his body; "a flashing blue light" in one of the tunnels; "female voice"; "a sense of dread" and "voices" heard in the morgue; and, finally,"seeing a nurse walking" on the 2nd floor in Bldg. 11.
Of course, Steve set off the night by explaining the coverage from camera 3 near the fire boxes as "they would transmit a signal but nobody would be in here" and Jason says "yep". Huh? Where did that come from? Not even close!
We then have J&G with the sound they hear like a "big exhale" and later the sound of a cart being wheeled. Unbelievably they then have the exact type of cart he knows made the noise he heard yet a few feet in front of them with no wheels but he is absolutely sure it was that type of cart. They then claim a scream or yell yet we, again, hear absolutely nothing. Somebody walking 15' in front J and behind the cameraman filming J? Grant was in that vicinity yet he takes off and walks @ 30-40' down that hall searching.
Steve and Tango hearing a noise coming from what looks like a room that's being refurbished? Yes, it did look "fresh" but with all the peeling paint and run down conditions, and the place closed down, why would someone refurbish that little space in the middle of a huge location, Odd but not parnormal. Did anyone see the tree branches just outside of the windows and the metal screens on the windows? Haven't we heard noises like this in the past from this scenario?
I also loved Joe & Britt's first time out. They hear a noise (we don't) and immediately ask the other if they heard that to which is said it's "right outside the door" followed immediately by "it's right over there" and then Britt's exclamation "I swear to God, it sounds like it's coming from in there!". Okay, where exactly was that noise? Another gem, this time from Joe: "did you see that, it sounded like a moan?" and "it sounded faint". I also loved the fact that they were really brave, walked halfway down the hallway - not all the way down where they supposedly saw something at the end and they say they are not afraid and issue a challenge for it to get closer to them. If you're not afraid, walk down the end of the hall!!!!!
I also loved Steve and Tango conveniently had chairs set up when they put down the directional microphone. Can you spell set up? And Tango asking "are you insane, are you crazy?" Since they were the only ones there I almost expected Steve to answer but not a peep.
We then have a "woman's voice" with J&G which we again don't hear although Grant claims is was very clear. And, yet another great moment in ghost hunting when, after Grant hears noises from inside the building while doing his "interview" outside, he states it's not windy yet later we see blinds blowing in the wind and hear Kris and Amy confirm it is windy. Jason tells Grant "something is up there" and Grant replies: "I don't know. You want to go up there? Watch, we'll go up now it it won't make that noise any more." You think?
The helmetcam - what can I say? Running into Steve and Tango - priceless.
The evidence review - pathetic at best. The "ch" or "sh" sound - I can think of an expletive someone could have said under their breath that fits that sound byte. I uttered it when I heard their explanation. The reveal showed how Jason handles Grant when Grant is explaining and makes the mistake of saying the camera fell gently to the floor to which Grant abruptly corrects Grant and proclaims "I wouldn't say gently. It bounces pretty good." And, quite frankly, I saw some debris fly up and across the camera. And how did the thermal hit that kept changing become a mass?
Okay, rats, major problems with people trespassing, windy conditions, branches brushing against metal window screens, echos in miles of tunnels, dilapidated building conditions but nothing paranormal here. Here's a link from the local paper in October 2008: http://www.vcgtimes.com/NC/0/141.html
Yes, it's a creepy place but when you hear stories about the history of the place, you mind can't help but wander about the lives lived and lost in such a place.
Whew! I'm sorry but I had to get that all out of me. Now, I'm going to end with Steve's best quote of the night:
"If this thing has intellingence, it may follow us."
Note to Steve: none of us are following you!
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chrispycritters @ 10:14 pm
When Jay asked if they were to be the last people to investigate the premises, it's really sad that my first thought was: So…cha ching! No one can confirm or deny a damn thing we say.
This show is making me far too cynical.
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stangtexan @ 10:27 pm
Wasn't this the same place that the Ghost Adventure guys went to? Didn't they pull the same lie-down-on-the-creepy-morgue-freezer-slab stunt?
I guess America's running out of haunted places so all the TV ghost hunting groups need to share.
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Learjet @ 11:02 pm
We can't win. No matter what equipment they use. For the 1001 time one of the GH team see a shadow where no camera is pointed, yet was only seconds before and after.
For 5 seasons now this has been going on, always the spook off camera.
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/8735/asylum.jpg
I predict that the use of headcams will reduce the times they cry wolf only when wearing them, but as soon as they take them off the wails of "shadow" and "apparition" will return!
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Stephen @ 11:11 pm
Okay, this place doesn't have a voting system. But I hereby allot Alicat +2 Stephen Points. Redeemable anywhere Stephen Points are accepted.
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Bobarino @ 11:55 pm
Well, not to repeat too much - a lot of possible natural explanations to almost every "incident".
The camera moving/falling is the only one I don't know. But it could easily have been some person doing it. No way of proving either way. Since humans have been proven to exist and ghosts have not, I will go out on a limb and say that a human was involved.
But the funniest part of the show was a commercial. It was for something like "Come hunt ghosts with TAPS and get to use all the hi-tech equipment just like they use on Ghost Hunters", and they were showing a picture of a K-2 while saying that.
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Lar @ 7:32 am
Good news. Bad news.
Good news. Found this link which offers every season in HQ for free along with the other paranormal shows. Now you can watch & debunk all day 24/7:
http://www.extremeghosthunters.com/index.html
Bad News: EVP? More like evp…External Voice Pollution aka NOISE.
Helmet cam: They're ONLY using this now because they're desperate for greater visual evidence.
OOOOOH! I hear noises in an abandoned building sitting on 80 million acres of land. Couldn't be wind, falling-cracking plaster/paint/foundation, bats,rats, mice, owls, snakes, pranksters, homeless,Grant,window shades…
Tripod? Don't you mean BiPod? As in two hands. They needed something visual to further exploit the show & someone picking up the camera is it.
Biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig Question? Why don't we HEAR the audio from that camera? You're not telling me it doesn't have a condenser mic are you? We ONLY see the event but do not hear what is going on. If there is or was audio, ya 'wanna' bet that's long been erased.
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alicat @ 8:48 am
@ stangtexan: Yes, this place was "investigated" by GA and you will find great reviews and comments by Harry and Oubliette in November 2008.
@ Learjet: I think Britt actually set up the on again/off again use of the helmet cam by saying it needed (in my words here) to be refined. So, I believe it will be pulled do to technical difficulties as warranted. Unless we see it off camera, we'll really never know if they actually used it if they cut it out in editing.
@ Barbarino: Sorry I was overindulgent in writing. I was just so ticked off I had to get it out. I so agree with you about that commercial. And, what do you want to bet that the couple they choose to win will get a total of maybe 2 minutes face time and never be heard from again. It would be interesting to be able to contact them after they air the episode to see if they had to sign a non-disclosure agreement, etc.
@ Lar: I also wondered about the audio from the camera. And, contrary to Jason's comment about it bouncing pretty good, I really saw no evidence of that happening.
Also, I forgot to mention that I found Jason's comment quite curious when he said that the cameraman found it in that position. They keep claiming no one except their own cameraman is going through locations with them (although we saw from the Armory incident that's not true) and supposedly only one team investigates a building at a time but then Steve and Tango proved that to be untrue as well. So, why was this guy wandering around with no "cast" member? Curious?
Finally @ Stephen: Thanks. I'll take those Stephen points and tuck them away for future use. On second thought, maybe Logisti will accept them as payment in helping me with my login problems! I hope so.
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Learjet @ 9:24 am
Who's the two guys on the roof walking around in a cut from the initial interview with the caretaker?
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/4986/roofu.jpg
Note, those with standard definition video may not see them if the side edges are chopped off.
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Wes @ 9:51 am
.. They're the guys not making the noise Jay and Grant kept hearing from the roof area … (great catch Learjet)
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alicat @ 10:21 am
@ Learjet: I agree with Wes - good catch! I never saw it. I do know they have have had security at the place due to all the trespassing and vandalism. They even had a someone who reportedly committed suicide on the property several months ago. But yes, as Wes said, they probably are the guys not making the noise J&G heard from the roof!
Here is a link so you can see what this place actually looked like before GA and GH. Notice there is no grafitti on the doors of the morgue freezer and they said the last patients were moved out in 2007 so it has to be between when they closed in 2007 and early 2009 when GH visited. FYI - You have to go about 40 pics down to see the freezer photo.
http://www.abandonedbutnotforgotten.com/essex_county_hospital,_cedar_grove,_nj.htm
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Lar @ 10:29 am
The very first thing you'd do is to CRANK UP THE VOLUME while watching the camera being picked up. You'd want to hear who it is. You'd listen for breathing, foot steps, whispering. You wouldn't show the evidence without audio.
They'll claim the mic didn't work, there was no mic on that unit, the audio was disabled, or there was nothing to be heard so they didn't bother to share it.
Yet,in a dark abandoned building, one that sits on 90 acres of land, an entity manages to find your video camera, pick it up, look at it, then toss it over, without leaving an audio foot print.
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dr_peter_venkman @ 6:09 pm
@Lar - excellent point about the audio for the camera "tip".
I was too busy analyzing the movement to pick up on that. Here is what I thought was interesting about the camera fall. There was evidence that some dust had kicked up at the beginning of the clip. It could have been caused by the air flow created by someone walking up behind the camera. The other interesting thing was how the camera appeared to be set down on its side rather than falling on its side. During the analysis, someone (perhaps Jay) said it looked "gentle" and Grant disagreed. I thought it didn't look like a fall. The speed seemed too slow. How would you handle a piece of equipment you owned? Would you tip it over and let gravity do the rest or would you try to keep it from getting damaged? If you were a squatter and came across this camera would you gently tip it or just kick it over?
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alicat @ 7:03 pm
@ Dr. Venkman: In my earlier post about the camera falling, I mistakenly said Grant corrected Grant. My typing error! It was Grant who said it fell gently to the floor but it was Jason who jumped in and immediately corrected Grant by proclaiming "I wouldn't say gently. It bounces pretty good." First, if something was falling, it wouldn't stop in midstream and second, I saw no falling or it bouncing pretty good as Jason claimed. I don't even think we saw the tripod on the ground. If I remember, I only saw the camera. To me it looked like someone took it off the tripod but my memory could be wrong.
I also saw the dust you mentioned. Interestingly, Jason himself stated you should have seen dust kicked up if an individual came in and knocked over the camera. Was this a pre-emptive strike on Jason's part? He was quite adamant that there was absolutely no dust kicked up but there it was at the 50-53 second mark.
I also agree about your statement regarding a squatter finding the camera. They would have just kicked the tripod and the movement would have been much faster. Why would they care? Someone on the crew or a cast member on the other hand would have respected the ownership of the camera and put it down gently as Grant originally stated. An alternative to the squatter theory is that they probably would have taken the camera and either sold or pawned it since there was supposedly no one in the immediate vicinity who would have seen them take it. It was an easy target.
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ghostgirl74 @ 9:17 pm
I thought the whole "camera falling to the floor" was questionable myself. Let's say a "ghost" was curious enough to check out the camera. I still don't think it would care enough to gently lay the camera on its side, or even let it "bounce pretty good", because it certainly wouldn't care that that particular piece of equipment costs a pretty penny. If something other than human had anything to do with that little trick, the damn thing would have crashed to the floor and being that the floor is concrete (or at the very least hard-packed dirt), the camera would have broken in a hundred pieces.
@alicat…I agree about a squatter finding the camera and kicking it aside. A squatter would have had enough sense to take the blasted thing and hocked it!
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The Doctor @ 12:03 am
This whole "camera tipping" episode is ridiculous -
Anyone remember back to the first episodes when the other Brian was fired for leaving his post at Command Central ? … and now a camera is tipped over for at least 20 minutes and noone notices ? Nice work by TechMangler Steve
Just what is part of the camera crew doing wandering around on an active "set" alone, and messing with the "props" ?
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bullerspoke @ 7:12 am
I have to go with my gut, Grant said when proclaiming the place haunted. No, sir, you do not go by your gut, you go by the evidence (like you stated you would do, back in the beginning, but increasingly have not done). Evidence which really is, or atleast was, the premise of the whole show, investigation as a tool to gather evidence for paranormal phenomena. Presented in an entertaining way.
I was surprised by the lack of evidence and how lacklustre the evidence was. Not that I think the place is particularly haunted, if haunted at all, but they usually get quite alot of ambigious readings, which they then misinterpret, in places like this (as previous investigations of old hospitals and mental institutions has shown). And considering how they oversold the place in the episode and the investigation I was anticipating something juicy, like the shadow at St. Augustine, the chair at Race Rock, the closet door at Stanley Hotel.
What did they catch then? Unintelligible EVP's, if they indeed even are EVP's, I only heard noise. The "children" EVP was about a far a stretch you could get. And a falling camera, whose fall does not really correspond, in my opinion, with the description they gave, and since they did not try to debunk it by examining the camera, the area or try to recreate it, which should be the minimum requirement, we are left with absolutely nothing. Only a group of people admittedly scared of the place hearing strange noises, which they without hesitation and any attempts to debunk interpreted as paranormal, which anyone scared by walking around in the dark in a creepy place like that would. Confirmation bias is the shit.
No, I was disappointed, mostly by the overselling and the very lacklustre investigation. They had a good opportunity to make som really good entertainment, as GA did at the same place, and maybe catch some juciy ambigugous reading, but they really didn't. They talked like they did, but there was very little content and actual stuff that happened. So little that they tried to sell ambiguous events as the rattling noise when Grant was being interviewed outside. Or Steve's badly acted microphone incident, which actually made me wanting to hide my head in a pillow out of embarrassment.
With that said, it was almost uncanny to see the trial of the Helmet-Cam, even if I personally not is as convinced as others here about it's value and ability, but any attempt to further their methods should be encouraged. I was however disappointed of it's construction, I'm no engineer or even tech-savy, but I do believe I would come up with something better than that clumsy, top-heavy thingie they produced, if given time, money and tools. A big problem in my opinion was that you almost got sea-sick when watching the footage, due to the movement of the person wearing it making the picture sway. A tip is to check out the military's helmetcams, or hiring a camera consultant who could redesign the helmetcam. A good start would be to put the camera in front of the helmet instead of on top of the helmet…
So in conclusion this episode was really more MH (minus the screams) than GH with lots of noises and lots of noise being made about the noise but nothing substantial whatsoever. If they only could have kept their heads cool and not fall for the temptation to oversell the episode just because the place felt and looked creepy… Or atleast if they now went for entertainment and drama actually provide some entertainment and drama and not an hour of jaded, formulaic noise hunting .
Lastly, it seems to be a rule in the paranormal field and on tv, that a creepy place has to be haunted. And what worse is GH unlike MH doesn't even have a resident "skeptic" that actually raises the question of confirmation bias, when being put in a creepy, alien environment. They simply ignore that perhaps because it would put their experiences in question, and since they had nothing except their personal experiences, they would be left with nothing if they questioned their experiences. Ambiguity is the shit.
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The Doctor @ 11:16 pm
The captions cracked me up …
Electomagnetic Field detector
Detects Electro and Magnetic Fields
Really ?
Hey, Techmangler Steve — I know what a magnetic field is …
…but just what IS an "electro field" ?
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Learjet @ 11:24 pm
It's like a magnetic frequency that Jason mentions, only of opposite polarity when re-routed through the deflector array.
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Lar @ 7:47 am
Once again TAPS is assisted by the ppc aka Pilgrim production crew. TURN THE VOLUME DOWN as you watch the camera "float n' fall."
Without hearing the music "BUMP," synced to the camera hitting the ground, you get a better feel for how hard it hits. Yes, it does bounce…a bit, but the music creates a THUD like effect which it is not.
One other area we're overlooking…How do we know there isn't AUDIO evidence not only of the event itself, but afterward?
Did the person(s)who knocked the camera over hang around, run away, what? We're taking J&G's word that the video camera recorded nothing but the side of a filing cabinet for about 20 minutes.
We don't HEAR what happens before, during or after. We don't SEE what the camera records before it's lifted (I mean minutes before) & we are not given the chance to see what's recorded for some 20 minutes as it lay on the ground. Was it moved? Was dust kicked up?
We have three LEGITIMATE theories:
An outsider (kids, pranksters, homeless) knocks over the camera.
Someone from Taps/Pilgrim does it purposely OR
A Taps/Pilgrim employee does so accidentally but doesn't own up to it.
The only thing haunted about this place are the investigators who like the spirits they claim to see, also go "bump," in the night.
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camile @ 4:32 pm
I can't seem to find this episode online to confirm this thought but..
Also- great points, everybody, about the lack of sound evidence that should have occurred with the camera fall.
Did anyone else think that the camera fall seemed 'wrong' somehow? It seemed to be falling in slow motion- especially during the bounce at the end. If the camera was carefully set down then we wouldn't have seen the little bounce at the end. On the other hand, if it was pushed or knocked over carelessly it moved awfully slow during that fall and bounce. Can someone please take a look and correct me if I'm wrong? I'd like to take a look at it again if anyone can find it online. Thanks a bunch.
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dr_peter_venkman @ 5:45 pm
@camile: I posted earlier on this and completely agree. There's a lot wrong about the camera fall.
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Lar @ 2:34 am
Remember we're at the mercy of TAPS. It appears they enhanced the footage. It looks to be sloooooowed down creating a more ghost like float as it falls. Now someone may have just done just that, picked it up s l o w ly, but it does look like as it falls the video is slowed down if only slightly to make for a more spiritual float, and when it hits the floor it is again slowed down slighlty enhancing the bump.
I don't know how this guy gets away with it, what with TAPS being so adamant about exposing their fraudulant findings online but EVERY GH Episode can be found here:
Online Paranormal Television - ExtremeGhostHunters.Com
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Scott @ 12:54 pm
They are redoing the old Marlboro mental hospital. II myself have been in it (was allowed by a care taker friend) and will never go back to that place again.(even tho security is tight now by state) I am skeptical of spirits, and remenents making themselves known. Yet that place simply has a bad feelings, emotional, nto in a mean negative way but a sad emotional way, painful way. What started out as a skeptical joke left 4 of us just agreeing some things are left better alone. I wouldn't want to work security there.
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alicat @ 1:38 pm
@ Scott: I'm sorry to burst your bubble here. This episode was about the Essex County Hospital not the "Marlboro mental hospital". Two different towns in two different counties. The Marlboro Psychiatric Hospital closed and is located in Marlboro Township, Monmouth County and the Essex County Hospital was closed and is located in Cedar Grove, Essex County. The state does not have security at the Essex location and, since last summer, they are in the process of demolishing the buildings to build a park.
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FORMERGHFAN @ 7:12 pm
Not wanting to bring the whole Collargate issue up again but someone posted this
on one of my videos and I thought it worth sharing.
This puts a whol enew light on the subject.
Apparently Steve Valentine is an accomplished magician!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Valentine
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alicat @ 7:34 pm
Hi FORMERGHFAN! Good to see your post. I must admit (red faced) that I saw the episode of Monk with Steve Valentine when it aired about 2 months ago and he played a professional magician on that episode. Big leap! I googled him after I saw the show and found out he was a magician. Duh! I don't know why it didn't click but I think it's because you did such an incredible job with "collargate", there was no question about J&G in my mind. But, I should have posted it! I just thought from the Estate of Panic show he was just an actor. I should have pulled him off of IMDB. He also has his own website but it took so long for my computer to download, I gave up. Here's the IMDB bio which confirms he is a professional magician. Yes, it does explain a lot!
Steve Valentine (I) More at IMDbPro
Date of Birth 26 October 1966, London, England, UK
Height 6' 5" (1.96 m)
Spouse Shari Valentine (2 August 1989 - December 2005) (divorced)
Trivia
Worked as a DJ in Yugoslavia when he was 18.
He has played a character named Nigel on at least three different TV shows: 'Silk Stalkings', 'Martial Law' (guest appearances), and 'Crossing Jordan'.
Had two cats named Sidney and Troughton; awarded to now ex-wife Shari in the divorce.
Hometown: Bishop Briggs, Scotland.
He is a professional magician.
He enjoys riding roller coasters, dancing and horseback riding.
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Chicago Mike @ 1:12 pm
I almost choked on my "World's Deadliest Catch" fish sticks when the Administrator was giving the tour. 10,000 people died? Really? That's one person ever 4 days for 110 years. Really? And no one was concerned? OK, table that . . . what about the bed eater? Really? So, apparently while the doctors and nurses and guards are busy watching the the patients dropping like flies, this guy has time to consume an entire bed. Really? Oh, wait, we need to set up some funny dialogue between Steve & Tango. I won't even comment on the helmet cam. I agree folks, old GH was no evidence, no haunting. A class C EVP (more like class Z) and faked camera drop doesn't cut it anymore. So sad.
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alicat @ 2:05 pm
@ Chicago Mike: It does sound like a large number of people but I guess, if true, back when the first patients arrived until it closed, there was a need for healthcare workers and they were most likely so understaffed, given the variety of illnesses to care for that it would not be unheard of for such an hospital.
As far as the gentleman that ate the bed, when Steve told Tango the story, I was surprised by Tango's calmness in then relating to Steve the story of the man in France. I had heard the French story before so I wasn't surprised by Tango relating it but I think his demeanor in relating the story and Steve's somewhat immediate acceptance with little or none of his usual over the top reaction, was rather odd. I guess I'm saying, it was almost like it was "rehearsed". And, like I said before, there was probably a staffing issue and misunderstanding of how to treat these patients. Unfortunately, as we have seen in the past with some places (certainly not all) the way these patients were cared for years and years ago, is entirely different from now or in the recent past.
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Sceptical @ 1:37 pm
Hi to all: I just 'discovered' this site last week. Great comments by all. I was really shocked by the helemet-cam in this episode. I had just suggested this to them in a message I left on their site last week as well. Once I found this site, I realized that I was not the first or the only person to suggest they use some type of head cam. Also I see (from postings from as far back as 2007) that my wife and I are not the only people annoyed with the timing of the production music when the GH investigators 'hear' a voice or whatever. My wife did some training (nurse) at the Essex County Hospital back in the '90s. It was quite populated back then with real people. She remembers being there, but not much else. They only interacted with the general psych population - not the criminal types. I wanted to contribute comments to this episode, but everyone was a lot faster than I and certainly didn't miss anything that I'm aware of. So there doesn't seem to be much left. Now that I'm watching the GH show with a much more critical eye, I wonder at myself why I was so willing to accept their show as 'straight-up'. I still enjoy it and I still find it entertaining, but now it's 'different' for me. All of your insights, observations, and reasonings are really spot on.
After eating a frame bed, what does one have for dessert? Remember the movie Dracual (the one with Anthony Hopkins)? I wonder if Essex's psych ward was like the one in the movie? It would go a long way in explaining so many deaths.
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Revenant @ 1:22 am
@Sceptical- Hello and welcome. First, don't feel bad about not being the first or the only person to suggest anything pertaining to GH. It only shows that you are interested in the paranormal, thinking about it in a skeptical manner, and coming up with solutions that may improve their methodology or enhance the viewing experience of the show. Nothing wrong with that at all.
As for watching the show and it being "different" for you now…well, join the club (or the website I should say). You are not alone. I think many of us have had our "Hey…there's just not something right about what I just saw" kind of moments.
Pretty interesting that your wife actually worked there. It's a shame she doesn't remember much about the experience as it probably wasn't all that exciting. However, that did make me think a bit. So I take it that she never experienced anything that she would consider paranormal there? Or heard of anyone else who worked there having some sort of experience? I only ask because it is quite interesting to hear about people who have spent time at a location and experienced nothing for years and then TAPS walks in and finds all sorts of "evidence" in one night. Odd how that works out…
And lastly, to answer your question…what does one have for dessert after eating a bed frame? Obviously the pillows are always saved for last. Chewy…
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Oubliette @ 8:18 am
Sceptical–great post. For what it's worth I don't think there is anything going on at Essex County Hospital. As Logisti's excellent summation has pointed out, they did a great job of spooking each other out over the slightest noise. Still it was fun to watch. This episode could have almost been shown as a "Scariest Places On Earth" segment.
Having skimmed several message boards, including TAPS own, it is apparent that many people were questioning why they didn't use headcams. So what do they do? Create the most absurd looking piece of equipment to date and have Britt complain about how heavy it was. Which, IMO, is their way of satisfying the fans while using the heaviness excuse not to use it again. When I saw it, I burst out laughing. There are normal looking headcams available so there must be a reason why they came up with that absurd looking one (and also why they really don't want to use them).
My husband worked many years at Ancora Psychiatric, which is still very much in operation. And he did take care of the criminally insane at times. Had to have his jaw x-rayed after one of them succeeded in connecting with his head. Thankfully, no broken jawbone. He said that the tunnels that all these hospitals have are enough to creep out anyone and create all kinds of weird experiences. In other words, such a scary environment is enough by itself to get the imagination working overtime.
Another odd thing was that there was a patient there who would swallow coins like crazy. Heck, if you asked him to jump you could sometimes hear the jingle. Caretakers would joke with him about needing change and asking him to use the, uh, facilities so they could get change for a dollar.
Essex Psych was a real washout. As a season finale (or semi-finale?), I thought it was very poor. The only good thing they did was to split up the teams and coverage of the place was done pretty well. Unfortunately asbestos is a BIG concern in all these old state/local facilities, whether they are still being used or not. Glad to see they took precautions, though not enough, IMO. Think I would have passed on any investigation there because of this health concern.
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shamm_rock @ 3:58 am
I haven't seen anyone comment about this one piece of interesting evidence (if that is what you can call it), that I noticed, and then rewatched to make sure: When the camera falls and hits the ground it happens exactly when the time counter hits 1 o'clock. However, the clock goes from 12:59:59 to 13:00:00. That happens to be 1 in the afternoon, not 1 at night.
I just think it's weird that TAPS has their clocks on their equipment set wrong…and I think it is strange that it just happens to fall, right when it hits 1.
I just wondered if anyone else noticed it, and if they had an explanation for it…
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The Doctor @ 11:44 am
Nice catch on the DVR clock.
They gave up keeping things syncronized long ago, and normally don't have the clock showing - leave it to TechMangler Steve to let another one slip through.
I find it most curious that camera 3 was setup "just around the corner" from command central.
Grant says at one point" we had just done a round and Jason was talking about their experiences" … J goes on to explain about the sound of walking 15-20 ft away "and many of us heard it" - and Grant is then seen passing camera 3 searching for the source.
This is the camera that falls over, yet no one notices it or hears it, and Jay explains that no one was in the building for 20 minutes until a cameraman was nice enough to set it back up.
???
How does one explain the non-paranormal actions of the team and crew ?
My best guess is the catering truck showed up.
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Nosfer @ 1:20 pm
Hate to say it but I've pretty much stopped caring. The time on the camera just goes to show you that either the whole thing is staged and they DID do it just after noon, or the clock is incorrectly set, in either case it is further proof that the most closest they come to doing anything scientific is that the first word of the channel it's on happens (for the moment) to be short for "Science"
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shamm_rock @ 12:26 am
So, if they don't have their stuff synced up, then how do they know what time things are happening if no one is there? Doesn't make sense to me.
I like the show though, and I will continue to watch just because I like that the cheesy music and sound effects actually creep me out…I'm a sucker for a cheap scare.
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katherinejrsygrl @ 1:07 pm
ok so i geus u have never been there that place is soooo creepy even during the day ans since i have been there at night also i cant even explain the creepyness.
i went there during the day yesterday to take pics of it and last night i couldnt sleep at all
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alicat @ 1:23 pm
katherinejrsygrl:
Really? I seriously doubt your claims but if so, trespassing is a serious offense or didn't you see the "No Trespassing" signs posted all over the place? If you live in the area you know all about this. The police are monitoring the site closely and are arresting individuals for such foolishness. Let me put it this way: Without photographs, I have to seriously doubt your story.
[EDITED BY ADMIN: Please be respectful/hold the sarcasm
]
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Nosfer @ 2:50 pm
Being "creeped" is a state of mind. If your mind expects to be creeped out, it's gonna happen. If you keep your wits about you and approach it with rationale and common sense then the things that go bump aren't going to make you go _____
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The Doctor @ 3:42 pm
"shamm_rock @ 12:26 am
So, if they don't have their stuff synced up, then how do they know what time things are happening if no one is there? Doesn't make sense to me."
Correct, it makes no sense if you want to run a real investigation, but a lot of sense if you are looking to create a show.
For example -
At the Muppet Studios, time stamps on the FLIR screen appear to show that portions on it were re-created many hours later, and not filmed at the time Jay says they were.
When skeptical viewers brought this up it was not corrected, they simply stopped showing the timestamps.
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