December 15, 2008

Collargate: Final Analysis–Part 2 Jason

by Oubliette

From the beginning of the show, it was apparent that Jason was not a happy camper.  Of course, we can only speculate as to why this was so.  But after the debacle that follows, I feel that our two buddies had exchanged words before the cameras came on.  Whether Jason was wary of, or knew, that Grant was going to try and "embellish" evidence is something that is best left up to individual viewers to decide.  To me, Jason's facial expressions, obvious impatience and anger, coupled with his vain attempts to divert the viewers away from Grant's shenanigans (Grant's "Dude, it just did it again", said about 5 times was becoming extremely irritating) indicates that Jay was unsuccessful and he decided to put a stop to Grant's tomfoolery.

These screenshots are a bit clearer.  We believe that they show that Jason, after digging very deeply, finds the string.  Again, please read my comments below the pictures to understand what I think is going on.  Also, I have added the video on this page as a convenience so readers can watch it at normal speed and hopefully can then see Jay's actions in a new light.

Jay Finds the String or Wire

For the sake of not producing a book, I have left out pics of Jason's search of Grant's collar and jacket that preceded this screenshot.  We have all seen had thoroughly he began to look inside, right in full view of the camera.  This happens after Jason points to his earpiece and says that "they caught it on the FLIR".  Jay is obviously holding something between his thumb and fingers.  He locks eyes with Grant.  It is an awkward moment between the two friends.

Jay Starts To Pull

Here Jason is still tightly gripping whatever he has pulled out of Grant's jacket.  I believe he is starting to try and remove the string in an effort to get rid of it.  You might ask why he would do this with the camera so close.  First, he wanted desperately to stop Grant from continuing ad nauseum to play his little game.  Nothing else seemed to work and Jay knew that, if caught, it could be devastating to the show.  Which leads me to the second reason.  At regular speed, what Jay does is barely visible to the audience.  But he did not consider that some people might decide to look at this on a frame by frame basis.  He had to do something and decided to take the chance.  IMO, the line is visible in this pic, although my eyes just may be playing tricks on me.  There does seem to be something thin and straight between Jay's thumb and the top of Grant's collar, but it could also be something in the background of the shot.

Jay's Attempt to Throw Away the Evidence

Jason's left hand is still closed over something and right after this he straightens out his left arm (for the first and only time during the jacket examination) in an attempt to pull out and throw away the evidence.  Why would he only straighten out his arm this once if not to toss something on the ground?  As we know, magicians use wire that is meant to be highly invisible but also has to have quite of bit of tensile strength to assure that it will not break and thus destroy the illusion (and the credibility of the magician).  Which leads me to the final "tug".  What I think happens is that some of the line is lying down the back of Grant's jacket and when Jay taps (almost hits) his back, it's enough to cause the final pull that we all see.

To sum up, here's what I think happened: Grant actually invites Jason to check out his collar.  He does this to allay suspicion that he's up to something.  His plan was to quickly pull out what he was using before Jay walks over to him.  His attempt fails, and he only succeeds in pulling out something which may be a clip of some kind, leaving the string either still attached to the collar or hanging not far from where it had been attached.

Jay begins an intensive examination.  He finds the wire and tries to jerk it out and get rid of it for the reason outlined above.  What I believe he ends up doing is pulling out enough of the string so that it is now draped on the outside of Grant's jacket.  He pats Grant's back and in so doing causes the last pull.  Alternatively, some of the string may have gotten draped around one of his fingers, and when he does the pat, it gives the collar a final yank.  Here again is the shortened clip.

Jason's Discovery

For those who wish to see the original video that we used as it appeared on YouTube, here is the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjEUcIuB0Dc

After working on this for over a month, it is finally time to put it to bed.  Whether or not you agree with our interpretations, I thank you for reading this and bearing up with my amateur attempts.  And so, finally, I say:

FINI

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Comments on Collargate: Final Analysis–Part 2 Jason »

December 15, 2008

Lar @ 3:06 pm

My Google debunking video is still getting plenty of hits:
DeBunk Da'Hunt, Ghost Hunters Collar DeBunked!
Most believe Barry Bonds pumped more steroids than G's felt cold spots. Barry's results, like G's are fake. Management knew Barry was pumping, but he was a cash cow (for it). Sci Fi & Pilgrim must know G is pumping evidence, but it pays off at the gate. Hopefully the gate will close by the 5th season.

Wes @ 3:29 pm

One other thing that I don't think has been mentioned to add to the mountain of circumstantial evidence: isn't it odd that a ghost would grab the EXACT same spot on someone's jacket and pull it the EXACT same way in the EXACT same direction several times in a row?

Nice addition to the plethora of debunking/questionable behavior regarding collargate, Oubliette.

ponyone @ 4:59 pm

To me it just looks like Jay found some lint or other type of small material on Grant's jacket and flicks it away.

and when they "lock eyes" it just looks like Grant is bewildered/surprised they caught it on thermal. Either he's like "they caught my string on thermal?" or "sweet, my trick worked, and we have thermal evidence to back it up."

It does look like Grant tries to throw something away before the inspection, but this could be just another piece of lint/thread or something as he thumbs through his jacket.

Though I'm certain Grant is up to something, I don't see Jay finding the evidence and trying to dispose. I just see him finding something…lint, thread, cobweb, SPIDER (notice Steve was nowhere to be found during this) or some other piece of whatever and flicking it off.

Who knows though.

Harry @ 7:05 pm

Very good work, Oubliette! The positions of their hands is especially telling, and I hope—-I really hope—-no one seriously believes Grant was merely throwing away "lint." That would be a really big chunk of lint!!

ponyone @ 7:54 pm

The ball of lint or spool of thread could just be catching the ir light of the camera, thus appearing bigger (like an orb). Plus he's throwing it pretty much right at the camera.

Or I could have not clue one what I am talking about. That could be it too.

Lord knows I've gotten pretty good hunks of material out of jackets/clothes though.

You have to play devil's advocate here and try to debunk the debunk of the bunkity bunk. Sure he's more than likely guilty, but could he just be flicking something non-incriminating away and doing it at the worst possible time? Maybe. Or maybe he's flicking nothing away and he swats a renegade moth with his hand thus sending it flying stage right.

I do not exonerate Grant from this, but I will say my opinion after watching the video is that Jay is merely flicking something away, and not holding onto a string.

I don't think anyone can be certain though due to the quality of the video.

Harry @ 8:06 pm

ponyone, based upon all of the evidence presented, do you think "The Tug" was a legitimate paranormal event or a fraud perpetrated by Grant, perhaps over the objections of Jay?

I say it was definitely a fraud, and, moreover, there's no room for any doubt about it.

What do you say?

Nosfer @ 8:29 pm

Have to say I'm not really seeing anything in the video. Quality sure isn't the greatest and people could be matrixing string, wire, or dwarves into it, too. I don't buy that it was paranormal, but unfortunately I'm not seeing anything to smack it down in the video or photos.

blinddog50 @ 8:58 pm

Oubliette,
Travail tres bon.
Une image vaut mille mots.

(Oubliette,
Very good work.
A picture is worth a thousand words).

Oubliette @ 9:04 pm

Thanks for the complements and also any dissenting opinions. That's the only way to arrive at the truth, if at all possible.

I've been working for over a month trying to make this clearer but finally had to give up.

If I could get my WMP to work properly, it is possible to see whatever Grant pulls out and throws go first upward and then descends towards the camera and away from his arm. The shot right before this shows him reaching very deeply inside his collar and comes up with his fist closed around this object.

Just put it up because it's been bothering me for a long time. I doubt if Jay has found lint. Don't know that lint would even bother someone like that. The frame before this shows him also reaching VERY deeply down Grant's back. He's got his fingers curled around something that's between his palm and thumb. Whether it's wire I can't tell; as I noted it could be just my eyes looking to see it. But to me it doesn't change the fact that Jay has gotten a hold of something and he hangs onto it before letting his arm down.

There was almost certainly nothing paranormal going on that night. But I did see a lot of friction between the two; more then I've ever noticed before. Whatever, it was a big mistake on Grant's part to try something like this and frankly it shocks me that he would attempt this on a live show. But we will never know what's behind this event unless someone finally decides to tell us :(

Of course, in the end it's always up to the viewers to decide. This is our interpretation; people will have their own. But IMO, this piece of video, coupled with body language and facial expressions, adds up to this scenario. Just something else to think about.

What will be interesting is how the new season will shape up. Obviously, whatever happened has not affected their ratings, so we can be sure SciFi will keep them going for some time yet.

kevin @ 9:49 pm

Good job, Oubliette. But I'm wondering why Grant and Jay would attempt to remove the string or wire in full view of the camera, filming live. Seems kind of dumb. There was no pressing need to remove it at that point in time. Why not wait until a commercial break, or remove it after the show is over? Maybe Jay's inspection of Grant's collar was as fake as the collar pull itself. But, that said, their actions do look suspicious. Maybe Jay was messing with Grant's head, making him think he (Jay) was ready to expose him.

Oubliette @ 10:23 pm

kevin, thanks for your comments. I've outlined why I think Jay took a chance in doing this. Personally, I believe he was at his wit's end trying to stop this playing around on Grant's part. Should he have waited? Yes. Maybe he figured most of the damage had already been done.

All I know is that if someone kept saying the same thing over and over like Grant did, I'd find some way to shut him up!

Why this happened at all is the real question. Live TV is way different and there is no way you can go back and edit things out or try to cover them up. All I know is that this past season has provided us with many, many things to discuss, from the K-II meter, collargate and hangergate. Plus a bunch of really strange EVPs.

ponyone @ 11:04 pm

@Harry

I am leaning toward fraud or just some very odd wardrobe malfunction. Definately nothing paranormal.

I was just trying to mainly mention my thoughts on Jay and seeing nothing on the film or pictures (good job by the way Oubliette) that points to him holding a string or finding anything on the jacket, or really suspecting Grant of trickery. Sure, he seems a little peeved, but maybe he was cold and tired of walking around for 7 hours?

and I was throwing the lint ball in there for Grant incase he reads this and needs an out for his myspace blog. Again, just playing a little devil's advocate. Every side has more sides than the side you thought you sided with.

Everything points to trickery on Grant's part though… there is little doubt about this. Or is there? Dun dun dunnnnnnnn

December 16, 2008

Lar @ 8:07 am

Let's tug this idea around…

YOU'RE G. I along with the other crew members are watching/recording you. Your coat is tugged repeatedly. There's "evidence," it's a hoax. You would immediately ask me & the entire production team to validate what happened. You would not rely soley on night vision-like video…unless you didn't want us to talk about it.

To avoid claims of a hoax, you would immediately take your coat OFF, giving it to a third party, someone of trust worthy character for a thorough inspection.

If this were a lawsuit whereby G's credibility was called into question his lawyer would call the production team to testify on his behalf. G's paranormal legal team (TAPS/Pilgrim) do not allow key witnesses to testify. WHY?

No production member, not one who was in the tunnel with G, all of those watching from within the control "booth," or any involved with post production have ever validated G's claim.

WHY? It's not paranormal. It's abnormal (behavior). It's a hoax.

CrowTRobot @ 11:41 am

Good job, Mr and Mrs Oubliette.

Like others, I think the bigger question here is "Why?". Why risk something like this on a live broadcast? If you wanted to create 'compelling evidence' there are certainly safer ways to do it.

And there was just this and the phony voice, right?

Either Grant's not very smart, or he's just so arragant that he didn't think he'd get caught….

…Enter: The Skeptical Viewer

Brenny @ 12:06 pm

I think he had to do this on the live show simply because it was BORING and they knew it. Nothing significant was happening and this was early enough in the night to keep the audience watching all the way through. I just don't think they were aware of how much we (the audience) could see with the night vision cameras on them. Remember, they were in near-complete darkness…so I think that Grant just couldn't help himself and took a chance….thinking that we would not tear this apart and analyze every frame. Thanx Obliette….great work…I was really searching around to find some evidence of the item being thrown by Grant….you got it…I can sleep now! Don't forget the slight sound the "string" makes as it is pulled out of G's collar.

December 17, 2008

FORMERGHFAN @ 12:06 pm

Let's make sure we focus on the facts and not speculate.

Speculation will lead to people discrediting everything we have done.

Don't give anyone anything to attack you with.

The facts here are:

Jason examines his collar
There seems to be something white coming out after Grant swings his arm out
Jason Taps Grant on the back and then the collar moves down again.

We shouldn't speculate about Jason's mental state or his relationship with Grant.
We could never know this unless there was an eyewitness to them arguing.

Don't speculate or it will make us look childish in their eyes.

Stick to the facts and be professional.

December 18, 2008

Harry @ 4:57 pm

FORMERGHFAN, I understand your concerns about unfounded speculation and you make several good points. However, drawing inferences from the available evidence is not the same as speculation. Drawing inferences is something we do every day—–we have no other choice, since we never have perfect knowledge about any situation. Choices as to what we should buy, what route we should take for travel, or even whether we should take someone as our spouse are all based on inferences we make from the evidence we have.

If you have ever sat on a civil case jury, you might remember the judge instructing you that you can make inferences about a witness's credibility based upon their demeanor and behavior during their testimony. And you were also probably instructed about the "reasonable person" theory, which holds that we can judge a person's behavior as believable or prudent based upon what a reasonable person would do in the same circumstances. (BTW, I'm not an attorney, but my wife is.)

That's why the behavior of Jay and Grant during the Halloween live special is very relevant to evaluating their claims. If what Grant experienced was a legitimate paranormal event, it would be the most sensational bit of evidence for the existence of the paranormal ever gathered—–an entity twice tugged Grant's collar on live national television!! A reasonable person in those circumstances would probably be ecstatic—–they captured the Holy Grail of the paranormal on live TV, right?

So why did Jay act so disinterested and almost angry if he indeed believed Grant was on the level with his claim? If things were on the up-and-up, why did Grant need to dispose of some "lint" just as Jay started to examine his collar?

This isn't "speculation." This is simply applying a little common sense and logic to the available evidence and finding the behavior of Jay and Grant very different from what we would expect from people who had just captured what would be incredible proof of the existence of the paranormal. However, it would be in keeping with what we would expect if Grant was attempting a hoax on live TV and Grant was thinking, "Oh God, this will never work and we'll look like fools."

Oubliette @ 5:45 pm

Thanks Harry, I appreciate your understanding of what I was trying to do.

The analysis I posted is just that; my take on what I interpret given the entire scenario. I have shown what I believe is physical evidence of the mechanism, but there is also the human aspect to it. It is something that should not be ignored. My guess is about 80% of people watching that night caught the friction between Jay and Grant from the very beginning. It set the stage for what was to come.

Jay has one of those faces that give away a lot of what he is thinking. I did not base my interpretation on just these screenshots. Throughout this section on the full video, he is mumbling to Grant and at one point gives him one of his "throwing daggers" looks while his lips are moving and he speaks to Grant so softly that no mic was able to pick up on it.

I also think it is hard to deny that Jay wanted Grant to stop this charade. It is not too difficult to tell when someone is disgusted and/or tries to divert attention elsewhere. Grant just wouldn't let it go, and IMO Jay knew how much was at stake. Put this together with the physical evidence and there is a story to tell. Mine is only one of several, but I felt it important to explain what the screenshots seem to indicate and why I feel the pictures are very important.

FormerGHFan: I fail to see why you feel that speculation (mine included) will lead to people "discrediting" all we have done. Everything at this point is speculation, and I feel that this is an important part of digging for the truth. To me it provides one explanation as to both the attitude and the behaviors exhibited that night.

I happen to think your interpretation of Grant's body movements is excellent; but even if I didn't, I would never call it "childish", as some TAPS supporters have insinuated, comparing your work to a cartoon. "Childish" would be making fun of, and name calling, the principals involved.

I'm not a professional with video, just someone who slowed down the video to the slowest degree possible and was amazed at what showed up within not only those seconds, but a single second. I have no credentials to throw around; my degrees are in history and psychology. But I wanted to share my husband's and mine opinions with others, because we know what we see in those few frames. I invited others to take a look.

I don't mind that some people don't agree with me, but, and I say this with all due respect, the fact that my attempts could discredit serious inquiry and are childish is something that, frankly, I just don't understand.

Getting inside the heads of people is a tool in determining what we see on screen. We make conjectures all the time about the world around us. It was just my contribution to the whole picture. I've spent a lot of time and thought compiling my research on this event, and don't see how my work could "discredit" serious efforts to find the truth.

I stated it is my interpretation; people can judge for themselves what the facial expressions and body language indicate. Just as you did with your 3-D rendition. It is simply another approach. We are not here to discredit one another, but to analyse in as many ways possible an incident that happened on live TV and which resulted in repercussions throughout the paranormal field, as well as the general public.

FORMERGHFAN @ 6:18 pm

Unfortunately this isn't a court room.

And again we don't know Jay and Grant (as they repeatedly say).
I am saying if you specualte as to their mental state or whether
or not they had an argument before the show (Something you are only guessing
on) you leave yourself wide open to attack from them and consequently they will use that to discredit you and your evidence.

There is PLENTY of visual evidence to go on, no need to take it into
those areas.

The comments about Jason being distracted by Bats are very valid. That is on the tape.

Grant moving his arm in a peculiar manner when examining it is valid. Again it is on the tape.

You can say what you want it doesn't bother me. Just a warning about giving them something to grab onto to tear you down.

No need to be defensive, I am not attacking you.

I believe people here understand what I am saying.

Harry @ 8:23 pm

FORMERGHFAN, it's true we don't know Jay and Grant. But we don't need to. All we need to know are their claims, the evidence (or "evidence") they present, and their behaviors we can see on screen. We can then apply our common sense and judgment to evaluate their claims.

I guess we're going to have to disagree about the line between "speculation" and "inference." To me, if you take what we saw and heard on the Halloween special, especially involving Collargate, and analyze it with common sense and normal adult experience, it's very obvious there was tension and conflict between those two all night. Yes, this isn't a courtroom, but that's how we make decisions in real life.

Jay and Grant are the ones making fantastic claims, but have offered absolutely nothing meeting even the most minimal standards of scientific or legal proof in support of those claims. I am hardly worried about being "discredited" by those two scam artists or their merry, but dimwitted, band of true believers. Let Jay and Grant first prove just a fraction of their wild claims and then I'll worry about being "discredited" by them.




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