Leave Grant Alone! Grant did not throw those hangers.
They found the spirit of Joan Crawford because the EVP Said, "NO MORE WIRE HANGERS EVER!!!!"

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Thank you so much for pointing out the location of Grant versus the location of the hanger. I mentioned that in my response to the McKeehan House. I'm glad that someone else saw it, too!

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MissBlue, actually I wouldn't have noticed it explicitly until you pointed it out, so thank YOU!

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And I want to go back to one of the Fort episodes where he and Grant are sitting at a table when a cannon-like sound goes off. Jason, like most of us would have, jumped. It startled him that much and IT came from outside.

Now, something (turned out to be a coat hanger) lands at his FEET; yet, there is no reaction but a glance in that direction.

I'm sorry, I don't care how seasoned you are: you're sitting in the dark and something unexpected lands at your feet - it's got to startle you.

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November 10, 2008
Diogenes @ 1:37 pm
Leave Grant Alone! Grant did not throw those hangers.
They found the spirit of Joan Crawford because the EVP Said, "NO MORE WIRE HANGERS EVER!!!!"

In reply to Diogenes….
That is way too funny. Thank you.

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I think I saw a figure in the grassy knoll !!!
regards,
Anthon

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I remember, I was there. He look like either LBJ or Nixon.
No I wasn't there I was in High School English Class, trying to grab the pretty girl's leg that sat in back of me when it came over the speakers that Kennedy took a head shot.
But enough of that, this isn't the T…. Board.
This episode is the pits. We should play Taps for TAPS.

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I agree Diogenes, this is the pits ! For the last few years I'd fooled myself about these two. This really is the nail after the nail after the nail. I just feel empty. Glad for this site. I felt such a connection to these two. Not often am I fooled this way. Hindsight says I should have known better. We should have a 3 step program.
Hi !
My name is Anthon.
1)I believed.

2)I Saw

3)I'm not drinkin' the Kool Aid anymore

Regards,
Anthon
P.S
@CROWTROBOT. Was that an MLS reference I saw ? Almost as rare as ghost footage.

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I'm glad you posted that video. I didn't want to watch the episode (still to upset from Halloween) but I have heard so much about Hangergate that it was nice to have a condensed version. I didn't have to wade through the "fluff".

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Seriously, please, someone tell me how to remain skeptical and not just incredulous.?.!.?.!.
Anyone ?
Anyone ?

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Anthon asked, "@CROWTROBOT. Was that an MLS reference I saw ? Almost as rare as ghost footage."

Rep to you, sir. Yes, it was. I saw an opportunity and snuck it in there. I don't live in the DC area, but respect their organization.

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First, while we've beaten Fort Delaware to a pulp , this is another nice video debunk,truly showing Grant's fidgiting:
YouTube - Jacket Pull Debunk
The coat hanger reminds me of the episode (I don't recall the title) where they're investigating two homes side by side. Maybe in Attelboro Ma. There's a wind chime INSIDE next to Grant. The camera pans back to Jay & you hear the chime ringing. When asked Grants says he didn't touch it.

Can someone create a list of "Granted," Paranormal activity. I don't mean the K-2 stuff, bogus shadows or fraudulant Flir images. I mean the stuff that moved, or happened directly to him.
A lamp moved that he sat next to.
A picture frame moved in the room he slept in.
A table he is sitting at suddenly jumps up.
One word: TUG!
Two words: Coat hangers!
His bed sheets were pulled (that was one of the worst).
Eastern State Penitentiary. Always thought this was Brian , but it could've been Grant.

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So tell me guys, what's the verdict?

Personally, I thought the case for the Jacket was very strong, but I'm not entirely sure if there's a smoking gun there. Grant fiddling with the controls on the digital audio recorder also seems very suspect, but I'm not convinced it really proves anything beyond a shadow of doubt.

So what about this? Does this video prove beyond a doubt that the hanger came from where Grant was sitting? And if so, is that enough to prove beyond a shadow of doubt that he threw it?

In other words, did we finally catch Grant holding a smoking gun?

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Logisti, I'm afraid it still comes down to this: no matter how it looks - and it looks bad - we still don't actually SEE him throw the hanger. That's his out. Even though every other possibility is……let's just say, unlikely.

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CrowTRobot, I would argue that the reason it's called a "smoking gun" is because you may not have caught the guy in the act of firing it, but you know that he did (because it's still smoking). Likewise when we discuss reasonable doubt we like to have as little doubt as possible, but at some point it's going to be unreasonable to expect there to possibly be any less doubt than there already is.

So let's discuss the alternate possibilities. If this video does not prove beyond any reasonable doubt that Grant threw the hanger, then what else might be going on?

As I see it, we know for a fact that the hanger came from the direction in which he was sitting, that he was the only person in that part of the room, that there shouldn't have been any hangers near him (because the hanger rack was on the other side of the room) and that he indicated that he saw the hanger come from that opposite side of the room, which we know for a fact it did not.

To me, that seems like conclusive proof that Grant not only threw the hanger, but also lied about it. The only other explanation I can think of that is even remotely plausible is that either there was someone else in the room near Grant (a sound guy, perhaps) or it was the camera operator who somehow threw it with an outstretched right arm. Besides stretching credulity, both of those scenarios require the act to be done within plain sight of both investigators. At least with Grant we know the camera operator was facing away from him and Jay was looking in the other direction.

If you've got more alternatives I'm certainly open to them. I must say though that I don't find it remotely plausible that a hanger floated across the room from the hanger rack to Grant without being seen (or materialized next to Grant without being seen), threw itself at Jay, and somehow tricked Grant into seeing it flying towards Jay from the other side of the room. That's not reasonable, it's not plausible, it's just silly.

So I put forth a Devil's Advocacy challenge. Is there a reasonable explanation I've missed?

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Unfortunately Logisti, I have an alternative. This is a taped episode. We don't know exactly how many takes they did or where it is edited. I think unless we have the unedited version there will be some doubt.
IMO- Grant threw the hanger!

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Logisti wrote
So let's discuss the alternate possibilities. If this video does not prove beyond any reasonable doubt that Grant threw the hanger, then what else might be going on?

Occam's razor,the simplest solution is the best
A theory that introduces the fewest assumptions.

The preponderance is based on the more convincing evidence and its probable truth or accuracy, and not on the amount of evidence.

Logisti wrote
So I put forth a Devil's Advocacy challenge. Is there a reasonable explanation I've missed?

The reasonable explanation is. Grant, the soundman or the cameraman tossed the hangers. Those are three alternatives, the rest is up to TAPS to show us that a spirit picked up and tossed a coat hanger,and it can be done with absolutely no other explanations seeming plausible.

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Logisti, of course you are correct. The 'smoking gun' part flew right over my head. I assumed we already had enough of those to open an armory - I was looking to catch Grant crimson-fisted. I can offer no other plausible explanation for the hanger.

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CrowTRobot, Stephen and I have discussed this at some length and for the most part any single "Grant" event can at best (or worst) be labeled "highly suspicious" but there hasn't really been a smoking gun.

Now, there are some aspects to "Jacketgate" that come close and might actually pass the requirements, but they're subtle. For the rest, it's the sheer volume of circumstantial evidence leveled at Grant and only Grant (another, overarching piece of circumstance) that seems really damning, but even that is somewhat of a house of cards because none of the cases it is built on are really conclusive. The race rock chair *might* have moved due to a tremor no one felt, etc.

That's what I feel the value of this video is. It's simple, it's conclusive. Even the most die-hard, loyalist TAPS fan will find it difficult to believe anything Grant says after they see it.

@ Queen of the Nerds, I did consider that the show is edited but that goes back to my list of implausible explanations. There is no question that the hanger came from where Grant was sitting, so are we going to question whether Grant was sitting there *at the exact moment* the hanger flew? Is it reasonable to suggest maybe he left to use the bathroom when the event occurred? That still leaves us with a hanger coming from where he was sitting instead of from the hanger rack, so I don't think it's plausible.

He's boxed in here, the only ways out are either nearly as damaging & distasteful as they are incredible (claiming the camera was accidentally off for the 2nd hanger and this was a recreation) or literally unbelievable (saying he left the room to use the bathroom and a ghost levitated a hanger over to where he'd been sitting before throwing it at Jason).

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I noticed this as soon as it happened. I said, that's not where the closet was, it is where Grant was.

I'll still watch the show to see how G tries to deceive us.

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"….the rest is up to TAPS to show us that a spirit picked up and tossed a coat hanger,and it can be done with absolutely no other explanations seeming plausible."

Exactly. Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proofs-wasn't it Carl Sagan who first said that?

Anyway, there were just too many humans in that room who could have easily tossed the hangar, esp. since the direction it came from is simply not where the clothes rack is.

This was so lame coming as it did on the heels of the live show. I truly believe that if the string or wire that magicians use could have been seen on the videos (and of course that's the "magic" part; it's not supposed to be visible) we would have had a smoking gun at last. Those tugs, IMO, have a probability factor of 99.9% that they were produced by Grant.

Check out how easy it is to make invisible thread at home, as shown by a teenage magician:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uft6X37vfkI

Not that Grant couldn't just go out and buy it. I've done a web search and there are a large number of invisible threads of various strengths to chose from.

Given all that's been noticed down through the years, maybe the man can't help himself. He's always so quiet and unassuming. You know what they say about still waters running deep.

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Great video.

You pointed out several things I hadn't noticed before.

The 3D analysis video for the Tug will be online within the next day or two.

I will post a link as soon as it's ready.

It will be very in depth.

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It's very difficult to analyze edited footage, so many liberties are taken in the editing room.

One tip I can give you guys when you are watching the episodes is to pay attention to continuity.

From one shot to the next you may notice comething different.

Sometimes when two separate events are edited together to look like they occured at the same time something in the shots will be different. The way someone is sitting for instance. In this case there does not seem to be any noticeable errors, Although I have caught these many times.

My eye has become sensitive to this stuff over the years
of working in Film and VFX so I pick up on them fairly quickly, even when I am not looking for them.

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If this video does not prove beyond any reasonable doubt that Grant threw the hanger, then what else might be going on?
I believe that is really a rhetorical question, in a form without the expectation the implied answer to the question can determine the correct answer.Hypothetical it's based on surmising and implies no answer calls for a definitive or conclusive answer. It’s the opinion of anyone who want's to answer the question. If you apply to the rules of logic; as, a logical argument or inference; then using any logical reasoning would be logical to explain what is actually happening in the video .

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I will say this again:

A lot of this doubt can be eliminated by simply
putting cameras on Jason and Grant's heads.

J&G Cams!

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Paul Anthony, I'm not sure what all that fancy talk means, but if you're saying that I was leading the witness then I must plead guilty as charged — however I made that remark in the comments as a reader, not in the post as the author. A minor distinction, but one that allows me to separate out some of my own opinion from the centerpiece of discussion.

The YouTube Video really captures what I was going for. I just tell the viewer to pay attention to where Jay, Grant & the Hanger Rack are in the room and then show them the hanger. The closest to a suggestion I make is to remind people one last time where Grant is sitting in relation to Jason by showing that last clip.

I was a little put off with the other video that has commentary on the screen that can't be proven, like "He's lying" and "Grant is browsing through the sound files". Leading the witness was something I wanted to avoid doing with this video, but I can't deny that I'm biased — I reached my conclusion on Grant some time ago.

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Logisti-
I'm a little confused. Yes, the hanger did come from Grant's side of the room. But the hanger rack was not on the otherside of the room as you suggested, it was on Grant's side. He is sitting to the left of it on the bed (if you are looking towards Grant). The rack itself is between the bed and the door (to Grant's left). The camera shot of J is from a handheld camera that was sitting on the chair almost directly under the hanger rack. I don't recall if Grant said that the hander came from the other side of the room, but I do recall him looking up at the rack next to him after the first throw.
The camera guy was filming J. It would have been better if he had gone for the wide angle shot of both J and G in the picture to see who was doing what at the time of this stunt.

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Leslie, sorry for the confusion. You're right, the hanger rack is not technically "across the room" from Grant in the sense that it is on the opposite wall — it is in fact on the wall Grant has his back to. The hanger rack is to Grant's left, but all of the hangers are down by the entrance, which is on the opposite end of that wall from where Grant is sitting.

Basically, if the hanger came from the hanger rack it would enter the video frame from the other side of the room — entering the picture from the left side and moving towards the right. Instead we get the exact opposite, and tracing the angle back would bring us to the wall on Grant's immediate right side, not the hangers on the wall to his far left.

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Yes!

People are using common sense. It's a beautiful thing.

It's actually a little insulting that they don't seem to be trying very hard. As if to say the audience is so dumb they can do anything and we will eat it up.

I guess they can always argue "Why would we fake something that is so obvious when we could do it better"

That is the dumbest argument I have ever heard.

It's like someone sticking his hand in your pocket and taking your wallet and when you confront them they say "Why would I stick my hand in your pocket and get caught like that? It would be too obvious"

Sorry but that doesn't hold water at all.

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Logisti

Whoever agrees or disagrees what is viewed on the video is neither correct or incorrect it’s the opinion of what anyone feels is the logical answer why wee see hangers flying. It’s any person’s opinion on what they see. Nothing can be inferred as leading, you either believe or disbelieve what you are watching on the video, my conclusion is Grant, the soundman or cameraman or some other person in the room is responsible for what we see and not a ghost. And that is my hypothetical rhetorical answer.

May 11,2008
My response to Comments on SV Podcast 006: The Third Option.
I believe Grant fakes and produces evidence. I also would strongly suggest the entire Taps Team is not only aware of it, but they are all in on it, including Pilgrim Films. I also can't deny that I'm biased.

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I just watched the show again, and I'm certain that the camera that is on J as the hanger is thrown is on the chair to Grant's left. It is not the camera man, who is standing slightly in front of J, because we see his (the cameraman)shot after the throw as it pans to the floor to look at the hanger. I can see the other camera on the chair in shots before and after the throw(s).However, this is not to say that I believe that it was real paranormal activity!
(I'm spending WAY too much time on this stuff)

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Leslie, that's interesting — I thought the camera man was just shifting positions, there is a second camera on a chair? That would suddenly open up the question of why switch to that angle just when the hanger is thrown (or at least why not show both angles)? If that camera operator is still standing out in front of Jay he might have caught a little TOO much of that hanger being thrown.

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During the filming of the first hanger toss, there is a break in continuity at 21/22 seconds on the SV video on YouTube. Jason is saying "Move something…whatever you can do" Then there is a break or "jump" (obviously a cut in the film that was broadcast) and then the camera pans over to Grant. The Break is _right_ as the sound signifying the hanger incident appears which is "odd". Coincidence?

I'm not seeing a Chair in the position indicated by the schematic above when the camera pans from Jason to Grant. Was its location derived from an earlier shot and it was subsequently moved?

At 23 seconds when the standing cameraman pans to Grant, you can see a distinct light in the lower right corner of the screen (Is this another camera sitting on the chair? Is that where the chair is?) It is immediately to the left of Grant, probably against the wall or very close to the wall, not out at the foot of the bed.

For the second throw, the camera is stationary (or the cameraman is _really_ braced and kneeling on the floor) It has to be no more than 3 feet from the wall when you see the angle it has at Jason. The hanger comes in from the RIGHT of that and the only thing to the right is the bed that Grant is sitting on.

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Nosfer, that continuity break is mine — I edited out a few seconds where Grant asks Jay if that was him and he says he didn't move, but I wanted to make sure I kept the camera pan over to Grant.

The schematic is my "best guess" from everything we see. If there's a camera on a chair then I need to update it. I think I see what you mean, I'll update the picture.

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Irony of Ironies. We have become what TAPS was intended to be. To debunk what is not paranormal. We continually debunk what they claim as paranormal, which is still what they claim they do, except when they FAKE it to (self) promote the paranormal.

The credibility of Pilgrim, Sci Fi wouldn't be hurt, it's "entertainment," progamming. But to admit to your fellow national & international "hunters," that you faked evidence would expose much of the paranormal groups as the frauds they are.

John Edwards, Slyvia Browne, make millions because people want to believe they're talking with the dead. The psyschic has to ask 800 questions before we can get the message from the deceased husband saying " Hi Honey. I have an office here too. Yes, it's a mess, but who cares, the rest of the place looks like Hell!"

If Grant admitted to faking evidence now, it would be due to public outcry not because he was doing what is right. He's a paranormal politician who won't admit to anything unless he's forced to.

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I think you and I are on the same wavelength. I was debating the "Magic string theory" with some people. I think that's how grant did it..but he wouldn't have to get it at the store-he could ask Dave Tango-from his Myspace page:

"I used to perform proffesional magic shows for children and adults alike, so I still have a fond interest in magic and illusions."

I'm not trying to infer that Tango had anything to do with it-just thought it was funny I found that today

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Obviously, we can't say for sure that Grant is to blame because 1) we didn't see him do it and 2) there were multiple people in the room, probably at least two off camera. Even though we can't be certain of the culprit, I hope we can all agree that the hanger did not emerge from the closet. A live human being was responsible. So, whether it's Grant or the production company staff, there's little doubt in my mind that someone's hoaxing.

What about the camera that caught the hanger flying? My verdict is that it was Grant's hand-held that he put next to him, judging by the fact that the video quality seems off (compared to Sci-Fi's cameras) and it's sitting very low. (Plus the fact that we know TAPS didn't set up cameras - no Steve and Tango!) If that were a cameraman holding the camera, then I can't imagine how he'd be positioning himself to catch that angle. Of course, this begs the question, why did Grant put down his camera facing Jason? Was he expecting the hanger to fly out of the closet again? Why wasn't he holding the camera? If I had been Grant, I would have aimed my camera at the closet because you just don't know what direction the hanger will go. Maybe Grant put down the camera to free up his throwing arm.

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The little blue box that the cameraman is supposedly standing in make it look like the hanger rack ends on his right–why?

The schematic also says 'path from hanger rack' when it should say 'path to floor from grouped hangers on rack' There is a vast difference there.

Additionally, Grant says that he put the hanger back so that he would know if it moved again–did he put it with the others–or on the rack right next to him on the left?

Based on the quicktime video the stationary camera is sitting on something about a foot or so out from the bed, and about halfway down the length of the bed. It appears that the end of the hanger rack is actually above Grant's left shoulder.

Does this absolve Grant? COULD Grant be absolved here? Probably not. But it does offer a scenario that seems to be in line with what was shown and said.

Could Grant STILL have tossed the hanger? Of course. It could ALL be faked.

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Probably IS Grant's camera. Which makes it worse. The show is about Ghost Hunters and that excuse has been used to exonerate the film crew when they film the investigators rather than the event. Grant is a crack investigator but thinks it's better to get a shot of happy Jason sitting on the couch? Screw the Grant List, let's start a list of Missed events. Bird Cage, The Hanger, The Lunatic Asylum…I can add more.

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I uploaded my 3D analysis video last night.

It's at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n_HwoTKafY

Please check it out and let me know what you think.

Thanks!

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Impressive

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Very very impressive. Thanks for the time and effort you put into it.

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