Good call on the heat signature. I actually thought someone was looking in, but on Grant's 'reinactment' I thought he didn't register because (it seemed to me at the time) he didn't get close enough to the window.

A couple of nitpicks:

1)They go to the Buffalo Train Station, which is the size of Montana, with only five investigators. But to a plantation, they take…what….eight?

2)The two bimbo Krises see a cockroach and flee the room, much like Steve does. A couple of years ago Brian ran because he was caught off-guard by what he thought was a spirit, and gets ripped a new one. These clowns run from bugs, interrupting their investigation, and it's ok.

3)This show is thrown together so haphazardly, it's like no one watches the final product before it airs just to make sure everything fits.

Anyway, off to work…

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I can't wait to read Logisti's comments about the use of a flashlight with a mechanically weakened switch as a paranormal research tool.

I'm impressed that someone who passed to the Great Beyond before the Civil War can figure out how to turn on a flashlight, Maybe people back then were smarter than we give them credit for being.

And it was too bad they couldn't get Jay's hand into the same shot as the flashlight when it supposedly went out. I'm sure it was just some unfortunate screw-up by the inept production crew instead of a really lame attempt at deception.

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Logisti,

Even I, lying on my couch eating ice cream and drinking beer (not necessarily together or in that order) could plainly see that was a reflection. Probably the camera guy, who wasn't in the same place during the "re-enactment". I immediately said the same thing, if you don't see Grant outside, then the heat signature can't be from outside. I have never owned a FLIR, and only have seen one in GH, GHI, MQ, and DT, and even if could use simple deduction to figure that one out.

Secondly, and I know you haven't addressed this one yet, but the bit about Steve stopping his elbow from going back because he thought he would hit someone. Instead of "someone", how about "something", like the freaking chair that was about a 1/2 inch from where you took your arm back. He never once recognized the chair right next to his arm.

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Absolutely the most crap laden episode yet.
Bugs, bells, bootsteps?,shadows not seen, armadillo chasing, funhouse stairs, bored looking Jason.
At this point the best use of GH is that it gets the TV warmed up for DT.

P.S., What's with the new tats that J&G have?

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The worst part about SciFi's GhostHunters marathon every Wednesday is that occasionally you see old episodes where they at least made an effort.

I agree with Logisti about the investigation taking the entire show - that is the way to go. I don't know how the show is edited, but there is not enough EVP work and/or staying in one place long enough. But, it could also be a case of there was absolutely nothing going on at the Plantation.

Agree, Grant looks bored…

Flip flops and armadillos…good gravy. The light outside that no one sees but Jay and Grant. The shadow on the bed that only Grant sees. The moving door that is NOT picked up on camera. I stare at the ceiling anytime they pull out the K2 or the flashlight.

The set up and premise were solid. The investigation was shoddy with too many investigators.

The only positive I will give them is in the debunking aspect of the claims. Too bad they don't do as much with their 'evidence.'

I still watch the damn show though.

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I must say, I've followed this site for awhile now and never felt the need to actually comment cause I felt that you guys usually were dead on with your comments…

With that said I must disagree with what everyone is saying with the FLIR hit in the window. It seems everyone has grown so content with dismissing everything that noone has actually taken a closer look at this.

I do admit it could quite possibly be a heat reflection but feel it should be looked at a little closer for a few reasons.

For instance when Jason enters the room he is standing in the doorway when he gets the FLIR hit. So the theory that it is the camera mans reflection is null because both Grant and the camera man were standing behind Jason. Therefore if it was a reflection it was Jasons. Jason was standing on the right hand side of the doorway therfore no one else would've been seen as a heat reflection from behind Jason. Even if the camera man or Grant were to Jasons left you would've seen the signature disappear behind Jasons heat signature which wasn't seen.

Also it's fairly obvious that it wasn't Jasons reflection either since he was stationary and the FLIR hit was moving.

Now don't get me wrong it's easy for someone to be outside the window looking in that gave the heat signature and they could've easily shown Grant standing in front of a different window. Notice we were never shown proof Grant was standing at the correct window.

As i said i'm not fully convinced this was anything paranormal but i would expect a better explanation than what everyone has posted. If you're going to debunk it then you should explian how you're doing it a little better than "it's clearly a reflection".

I honestly believe it wasn't a reflection. I feel it was someone on the balcony (Just picture Fort Delaware) then they showed Grant at a different window. There is no reason why the glass in the window would have blocked the FLIR from picking up Grants heat signature…

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robfrmpgh, if you watch closely in other investigations you will notice that glass consistently gives thermal reflections — some reflects better than others but there have a been just a ton of times in GH or GHI where they've noticed a "black spot" and gotten all excited only to realize it was a pane of glass that was missing — meaning that all the glass was reflecting thermals from inside the room and the black spot was the only area that the camera was getting a reading from outside.

As far as the specifics of this case go, we can't be sure who was standing where or even if the footage we see is a recreation because maybe the cameraman was still downstairs when Jay got the thermal hit. And yes, the thermal hit seems to move, but then again Jay is also moving so it could easily be him.

Also, we've seen many instances where Jay insists something isn't a reflection because they've tried to recreate it, but during the recreation he was provably standing in a completely different place — which I will assume is out of unprofessional inattention and not deliberate. Of all his skills, I have the least faith in his ability to accurately recreate an event.

Ultimately, it's a bit of a stretch to think Grant was accidentally standing in front of the wrong window and it's a fallacy to think getting closer to the window will overcome the window's thermal reflectivity and allow such a strong signature through (and then vanish suddenly, without leaving the glass warmer than its surroundings).

But the problem here isn't (directly) that it absolutely *had* to be a reflection. The problem is that anyone who has operated a FLIR camera inside buildings as often as Jay has should have automatically jumped to a reflection as the most likely explanation, and putting Grant outside virtually *proved* that explanation was correct, yet Jay made no attempt to address it or suggest a reason why he believed it was not a reflection.

I mean, the guy knows thermal reflections can be a problem for his investigation and here is a case where you have pretty firm evidence pointing to that conclusion but he doesn't even address it as a possibility. That's the real problem. If I drive to the supermarket and my car just sputters out halfway there and won't start, am I going to blame it on gremlins or am I going to look at the fuel gauge to see if I ran out of gas?

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so sad. i was a huge fan until about 2 yrs.ago. just so fake. really upsetting to the people who would strive to get any answer about the after-life.well i guess i will keep looking. very disappointing!!!

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Trust me I completly understand and follow what your saying. As for the glass blocking a heat signature from blocking comming from the outside i'm forced to agree with you since i'm not familiar with FLIR technology.

But my point is that Jason is looking right into the window and i never seen the camera perspective change so assume Jayson did not move.The FLIR stays pretty motionless through the entire shot. Jayson is standing right in front of the window. You can tell that from the perspective of the shot at the time it was captured.

If you look closely you can see the window frames and can tell where Jason is standing in regaurds to the window. With that in mind you would expect to see Jasons reflection in the window. Now i conclude that this is not his reflection because the heat signature moves and Jason is motionless at that moment. Pretty much what i'm saying is that from where Jason is standing you would expect to see his reflection and we dont. UNLESS he staged it and held the camera stationary while he peeked around the corner himself which i would hate to assumed happend.

As i said i agree with you 100% that it's not paranormal and probably could be easily explained had they looked into it more. I mean honestly the window could've been slightly open which could have picked up a signature from a different angle.

Unfortunatley neither of us can know for sure how it was caused or whose reflection it was based on what we were shown. And although i agree with you i would rather try to prove HOW and WHOSE reflection it was rather than say it was just a reflection.

On a side note i reviewed the moment Grant stood by the window and shined his light into the room Jason was in and you can clearly see in the FLIR footage a change when the light enters the room, even though it is minor since the FLIR doesn't pick up light. I'm sure if you look closely you'll see what i'm talking about cause it's somewhat hard to explain…

Honestly i think the show could show more of what is actually happening rather than cut and edit everything to fit. I would've liked to see Jason and Grant go back into that room with the lights on to recreate that moment but oh well…

I would also like to see them do a few shows with the lights on. I think in terms of spirts gathering energy to produce themselves it might be easier if there was actually some energy being generated in those areas. But that's for a different topic…

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I have been watching GH for about 2 years. I have always enjoyed the show, but I have always been a little skeptical. Mainly because: IT"S ON THE SCI-FI CHANNEL! Sci-Fi is short for science FICTION. Why would anyone expect them to be honest & truthful when filming a show for a channel dedicated to fiction? Anyway, the show is still entertaining only because it's fun to pick out all their fakes & mistakes, that's why I like visiting sites like this. Good site, Keep it up! C-ya around…

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SoupBone, this has been discussed numerous times but in a nutshell, the show is AIRED on the Sci-Fi channel but it is CREATED by a company called Pilgrim Films & Television that specializes in Reality shows — they make shows like Dirty Jobs and American Chopper. Ghost Hunters is billed as a Docu-Drama — the implication being that this is a documentary of TAPS (as opposed to a straight documentary on ghosts). That gives them license to keep the camera on the investigators instead of on the "shadow" they're all pointing at, but it's still supposed to be an honest documentary.

robfrmpgh, just to clarify, I don't claim to know exactly what happened in that room, but the one thing that's clear to me is that Jay did not attempt to suggest, debunk or even mention a blatantly obvious non-paranormal explanation that he's come across a hundred times and was staring him in the face.

I'd have at least a sliver of respect for him here if he had come up with some unscientific and completely wrong excuse about why he didn't think it was a reflection from inside the room, but he didn't even bother; he just jumped straight into "we have no idea what it was" and left a woman with the impression it was a ghost looking in through the window. Whether the conclusion is right or wrong, the investigative method is so irresponsible as to strain credulity.

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Logisti…

I completely agree with you. They should've spent more time trying to debunk it. Not saying that they didn't and just edited that part out. That's one reason why i completely love the live shows cause it shows exactly what goes on and how it's usually handled… Like i said i think we both agree it wasn't paranormal we just have different views on how it happend that's all.. Good conversation though…

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It would seem that by now, after years of use, that Jay would know that the FLIR cannot register thermal images THOUGH glass.
"We don't know what that was".
Yes he does.
robfrmpgh, you have everybody located as they were entering the room.
Jason, Grant and cameraman.
Except you forgot about the one that usually enters first and moves out of the way.
Soundguy and his boom mic.

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Excellent point blinddog… It never dawned on me that there would've been a boom man with them. I guess you just get so used to not seeing them that you forget they exist…

I'm not 100% sure there was a 2nd camera man though because one followed Grant onto the balcony and they didn't have any footage of Jayson while Grant was out there other than the FLIR…

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This may be the most written about episode and we didnt get to the compromised flashlight experiment yet. Why would spirits that in the past, showed they can move chairs and lamps and throw (sort of) 2 by 4's at Jason need some help pushing a simple button on a flashlight ?. I would also imagine the floor boards on a 170 year old house might have enough play in them that when Jason walked by the flashlight could be jostled enough to turn off or even on for that matter. The worst part of this I found was Grant's double take when he "first" saw the flashlight lit. It seemed sooo phony to me as if he was a bad actor trying to look casual when he noticed the flashlight was on - this little performance did for me in terms of his credibility and perhaps the show's credibility.

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The older shows were much better. At least they tried to understand what they were seeing or hearing. Now they just run with it.

Nothing but a tourist ghost show now.

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Well, it's interesting to see that they have solved the problem of the timestamps on the FLIR and the handheld cams.

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Just going back over the FLIR image that Jason caught on the second floor(Damn I need to get a life).
Anyway, as Jason enters the room he has the FLIR device almost centered with his body.
As he turns he has the sighting cross-hairs pretty much centered on the window in question.
If you watch closely from the cameraman's angle you will notice Jason weaving side to side a bit.
Don't know, just a little debunk to the debunkers.

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I think we have just witnessed the first documented occurance of a completely new phenomenom.

What the FLIR "sees" is recorded on the Mini-DVR.

The Mini-DVR recorded something that appeared to be a heat source outside the window, yet the experiment proved that the FLIR cannot see a heat source outside the window.

Therefore I submit that, like Electronic Voice Phenomena where audio is recorded when none is heard, we have a case of Electronic VIDEO Phenomena, where the Mini-DVR recorded images the FLIR could not see.

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To the Doctor: I think you have mixed up the FLIR and Mini-DV and the DVR. As you out it forth now, it is quite confusing and well, wrong. A honest mistake, there are many abbrevations thrown around.

—

Well, I'll throw my two cents into the mix. First, the FLIR footage. Almost a paralel to the Ironing Board incident in that the obvious explanation was not pursued, this time however against better knowledge. It was a reflection, period. Probably someone from the Pilgrim crew, unintentionally creating said reflection. Jason sudden drop in IQ when trying to understand and explain this footage was ridiculous. I believed to be a better man than to resort to such behavior, bordering on fraud.

Overall they caught zilch, nada, nothing. Absolutely nothing. And this was a full episode investigation. But hey did spin the ambiguous happenings that occurred even relaying the faulty assertion from Kristyn Gartland that the door moved when the camera showed it didn't. In fact, this episode was a bonanza of spinning personal experiences into evidence. Nothing was corroborated by the gathered footage, audio or anything else.

The flashlight incident? We have seen it before. Or, the last time we actually saw it turn on AND off on camera. But Stephen debunked that thoroughly in one of the podcasts.

This place would probably been totally debunked if it had been shot in the early seasons, but now it's suddenly worth a full episode not built on the debunking, which was scarce at best, but on ridiculously ambiguous personal experiences not supported by any evidence.

One more thing, as someone pointed out in the forum I think, why is there no footage shown of the flashlight going out? We see Jason's hand and then footage of a black flashlight but the no footage actual turning off, which was said to coincide with Jason's hand moving into a cold spot (whatever happened to the digital thermometers?), above the flashlight is not shown. This despite that the flashlight seem to be positioned so that the DVR camera should catch it.

In short, this show was nothing but a disappointment as far as TAPS behavior is concerned and the episode itself, well, was dead boring.

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Someone earlier here (or maybe another thread) asked the question again, why don't they investigate some with the lights on? In all their investigations, there were experiences related to TAPS that didn't occur in the dark. So many of these experiences occur in broad daylight. So why not have some lights on? Well, this episode ought to, once and for all, answer that question. They aren't getting any credible evidence anymore and they need their "personal experiences" where their senses are tricked by the dark to keep this show alive and provide mass marketing for bed and breakfasts all around this great US of A.

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Jason had a pissy look on his face during the whole investigation. Nobody seemed excited to be there…even Barry! He seemed strangly quiet and uncomfortable with the group. He hardly seemed interested in hearing about Joe's family history…I know I wasn't. They barely show Kris anymore…probably because each time she is on camera she looks pissed that she never experiences ANYTHING and those around her do. (that is until she films the phone call to the Roto Rooters..a chance to exercise her acting background) I couldn't believe Pilgrim thought it was a good idea to show these two idiots running from a bug in an area that could of had great potential! You gotta be kidding me! At least we didn't hear anymore "tinny" recordings of some voice telling us to beat it! Since this place took up the entire episode, I was thinking that I was in for a treat…what a disapointment! I swear I could hear you all logging onto this site and typing away.

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I actually would like to drop a popcultural reference that sums up my emotions towards this episode.

Worst. Episode. Ever.

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bullerspoke, I would change that around a bit. The episode was highly entertaining and gave us a lot to talk about. The problem is that the investigators looked like buffoons and for the first time almost seemed to be deliberate in how awful a job they did. Overall, good episode. The investigation, on the other hand, set paranormal studies back 20 years.

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Bullerspoke - Obviously I added the extra R but I don't recall when I outed it forth as in " As you out it forth now,…" your useage of this strange term could be quite confusing or well, wrong.
A simpler explanation could be a single wrong letter.

Back to the show…

J's attitude started at "Louisiana .. in the summer " and continued the whole show. For the rest of the crew it seemed like this was their first time at the rodeo - Kris freaked by the bug, Steve playing games with the bell and fan, Barry looking for a carriage with horses and chasing an armadillo (does he chase down every rat and stray dog in England ?) Is there some reason Joe decided to single-hand the K2 and his walkie-talkie ?

To his credit, Grant commented on the slanted stairs, and at least appeared to investigate the mirror … but not enough to make note that people would not be sitting there in the dark.

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The lack of footage showing the flashlight going off as Jay moved his hand toward it drove me absolutely nuts. . . . they could pan to show Jay's hand and the flashlight in the same shot once it was out, but they couldn't get that shot two seconds earlier when the flashlight was supposedly still on???

I actually enjoy a well-crafted hoax, or innocent misinterpretation, that has me scratching my head asking, "How'd they do that?" That's why the St. Augustine lighthouse episodes of GH are my two favorites; I'm still not sure what they captured on video or how the phenomenon was caused.

But I'm 100% certain what happened this week: the flashlight was off the entire time and it didn't shut off when Jay moved his hand toward it. The entire shot was a fraud from start to finish, and the GH crew considers us to be stupid enough to believe it.

Another thing that bugs me about the flashlight is the notion that a pre-Civil War ghost would have any idea how to use a flashlight or know what that word meant; would a person of that era have any clue what an electrical "switch" was or how to manipulate it? If there were really any pre-Civil War spirits roaming around Oak Alley, I think the GH crew would've captured an EVP asking "What's a flashlight??" when they requested the spirits to switch it on and off to indicate their presence.

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Wow, everybody here covered just about everything so there is not much I can add except that Barry F. is a terrible historian.

While talking about Paris to nudge the spirit(s) into responding, he made a big faux pas. Of course he was referring to the infamous catacombs underneath that beautiful city. I'm sure most of you are familiar with it as it is one of the strangest places on the planet, filled with the bones of untold people from several centuries.

But I really jerked awake (since this episode almost had me snoozing) when Barry stated that the body of Marie Antoinette was found there. Sorry, Barry, but after her execution her body was thrown into a common pit filled with other victims and covered with lime. However, it was later removed and identified and now rests in a beautiful monument to both her and Louis XVI.

Logistic, talking about car trouble–you can always call Jason and asked what is happening if your car stalls. He might say it's gremlins, but on the other hand he can use his vast knowledge of car repair (on the cult TAPS board someone stated he has a degree as an automotive technician) to help solve the problem.

Geez, can this show get any worse????

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Just a quick comment on the last 2 posts…

Without watching it again i'm not 100% sure Barry did say that Marie Antoinette was found down there. I believe he said she was just there. I know it sounds stupid but maybe he meant visiting. He did say he was trying to irk the spirits and he also said "does it bother you that someone is talking about your native country like that".

Also as far as the flashlight comment Grant clearly explains what a flashlight is. He said "it's just like a candle but it doesn't produce heat". He also went on to explain to any spirts how to actually turn it on. He said "you just have to touch it".

I'm not trying to say the flashlight incident was real or not but i do know he explained how it worked…

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Going back to the flashlight incident, one thing that really bothered me was the fact that you can clearly see Jason holding the FLIR when they enter the room and when he first sits down (Actually, they had it both times they were in the room). However, the FLIR is no where to be found when Jason and grant start to find all of these "cold spots." Seems to me, they, as investigators, should have grabbed the FLIR (or, as others have pointed out, a thermometer)and taken a peek at what might be happening. The sudden "disappearance" of the FLIR just makes me want to scream

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Nevets,

See, you are assuming that TAPS actually wants independent verification of their "experiences".

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Nevets, the FLIR wouldn't be of much use for that particular case anyway. The FLIR needs some degree of solidity in order to pick up a reading, so unless the spirit was solidifying in mid-air (rather than just changing the temperature of the air itself) the FLIR would just get its readings from the objects behind the spot you'd be trying to measure.

The IR thermometers had the same flaw, but TAPS eventually realized this and bought ambient thermometer attachments for the IR thermometers, which is what they normally use to measure air temperature variations. This used to be a prime tool for them, but I haven't seen them used at all recently.

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Geez, Doctor, chill down. I misread you. I'm sorry if I offended you, that was not my intention.

You wrote:
"The Mini-DVR recorded something that appeared to be a heat source outside the window, yet the experiment proved that the FLIR cannot see a heat source outside the window."

When I read that I interpreted the Mini-DV meaning a different camera not the recording device which is part of the camera or more precisely the tape. What you meant was the tape itself or the recording device, Your point was that a heat source was recorded when none was possible, none exist for the FLIR to "see", but it is still imprinted on tape.

That statement is your hypothesis: a heat signature was imprinted on the recording media (by paranormal sources or not) and not "seen" in the camera. However, if that is the case Jason should have missed it and the imprint first seen when the team analysed the FLIR footage, just as with true EVP's. Now that didn't happen, Jason saw it on the monitor as it appeared and what he sees is not the signal from the tape but to the tape. Then again it could have been produced within the camera, not only the tape, I'll grant you that, but then it is not a new phenomena since similar phenomena is captured on other cameras now and then, not least almost all "ghost" stills. And then there is the question of malfunction in the camera, sloppy handling or lens flare. And all other variables that might influence what the camera registers, FLIR or not. The FLIR is a camera in the end.

And still the likelihood of it being a reflection, in my opinion, overwhelming. Nothing indicates an EVP-like phenomena and furthermost nothing rules out reflections.

So a new phenomena? Probably not, more likely the same old camera phenomena. Again, if the phenomena had the characteristics you wish to assign it, Jason would not have seen it, just as EVP's are not heard at the time.
A reflection? Yes, most likely.
Paranormal? Maybe, but the facts point to a natural explanation. Which one, well, that's another question.

So sorry for the misread, but in the end, your theory does not seem to fly anyway.

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bullerspoke - Nope, I didn't say it was imprinted on the recording media itself, just that it was recorded.

In the voice recordings, there is no idea of just where in the sequence the "voice" is injected, just that it is said not to be an acoustic input picked up by the microphone since no human ear hears it.

Since Jason has assured us that it was not from the inside of the room, and experimentaly showed us that it was not from outside, we are left with 3 possiblities.

First, he is wrong.

Second, it was created WITHIN the glass by unknown forces.

Third, it was created or fed into the FLIR after the sensor and before the image reached the screen and was subsequently recorded.

Think about it … my newly minted phenomena explains every strange occurance, including the one where the IR camera did not record anything when the FLIR did. It's no longer a matter of incompetance.

A thermal face peeks out at them and they can't find a real body
…. it must be a E V(ideo) P

Expect to see it used soon !

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Got some info on Jay's tat.
It's a chess piece, the King.
He says the five points represent his five children, the cross on top represents his wife.
He says as he puts his girls to bed at night he says
"Good night princess" and they reply "Good night King".

It looked like toilet plunger to me.

Couldn't make out Grant's new tat.

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Doctor, I don't understand why you feel the need to go for a long-winded explanations with many variables, which would imply the existence of yet another phenomena in this case. Especially since the hypothesis that is a reflection is soundly based in experience and science. I think you are reaching for straws.

As for EVP's nothing indicates they are indeed acoustic phenomena quite the contrary, If they were they probably would be heard at the time and then technically be a voice phenomena. EVP's is generally believed to an electric or magnetic phenomena that imprints disembodied voices on tape, Directly on the tape, and no acoustic stimuli is present.

At the end of your post I do detect some irony or atleast I hope so, so maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree. If you are ironic, you got me, if not, I am troubled.

You wrote:
"Think about it … my newly minted phenomena explains every strange occurance, including the one where the IR camera did not record anything when the FLIR did."

Just to be sure, this is an irony over paranormal believers explanations, no? Because it follows them to the letter. Of course, everyone is free to believe but they still have the same burden of proof as the rest of us.

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bullerspoke-
"EVP's is generally believed to an electric or magnetic phenomena that imprints disembodied voices on tape, Directly on the tape, and no acoustic stimuli is present."

UH - the handheld voice recorders they are using don't HAVE tape.

"Of course, everyone is free to believe but they still have the same burden of proof as the rest of us."

It appears obvious that they don't -

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Okay guys, let's not get bogged down in semantics. EVPs are theoretically affecting the recorder in some way, perhaps the microphone but they definitely aren't supposed to be actual sound waves and they don't require physical tape.

You both seem to agree it's not an acoustic phenomena and you both seem to agree that TAPS is not meeting a reasonable standard of evidence or burden of proof. Let's keep the disagreement confined to topics on which you disagree

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Logisti - Your're right obviously

You're also right about the figure passing the window behind Kris, but that was Pilgrim footage, correct ?

When the flashlight turns on you can see a slight refection off the lounge chair, and I doubt if J was scurrying around on the floor.

I'm curious, when they re-create certain scenes ( perhaps like the flashlight going off ) who makes that decision ? Does a Pilgrim director block out the show on the fly and suggest (order) retakes ?

Good catch on the stationary camera, that should have had the whole story.
Check my post regarding the one that should have caught the flip-flop incident at Vinoy - it appears that CH-01 had been sanitized from the episode except for the fleeting glimpse of the 4X screen.

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Ok, tape, harddrive, SSD whatever the recording media is. Does not change the premise. Electric or magnetic or whatnot phenomena affects the recording media leaving an audible imprint which is not the result of acoustic stimuli i.e sound. That is the general theory put forth by the believers (not me I might add). But let's leave this sandbox fight over words and get to the facts and reasoning.

As I have stated, your hypothesis that it we witnessed the birth of an EVP-like phenomena on the FLIR or any other camera is not supported by the facts of the event.

And furthermore, that cameras catch phenomena where no visual stimuli was present is not a new phenomena, whether it is imprinted via the optics or directly on the recording media, be it analog film, memory cards or whatnot. So my conclusion is that it is either not a new phenomena or not a phenomena at all.

And again, the hypothesis that is a reflection is supported by the facts of the events and deals with sound scientific variables and well, logic. Heat reflects of glass and other objects, there were heat sources, humans, in the room. To then suddenly overlook that and construct a hypothesis on new, unknown and untested variables is unwarranted and well, bad science. Variables ought to have basis in observation, experiments, logic or earlier research.

I might sound zealous pounding this point, but it needs to be addressed. We already have to many unsupported claims floating around, we don't need another one. The aim must be to advance the field of paranormal resaerch, theory as well as methodology, and therefor all theories and methods, ours and the believers, must be put under scrutiny.

I find the Doctors claim faulty and unsupported for above stated reasons and it is now his burden to prove me wrong.

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"I find the Doctors claim faulty and unsupported for above stated reasons and it is now his burden to prove me wrong."

If can presume to speak for the good doctor, I don't think he actually supports his "theory", but reasons that if one accepts the concept of audio EVPs (which I don't) then why not expand the theory to include video? I'm surprised that none of the true believers have developed this idea.

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Nothing says an EVP-like phenomena can't occur on video recordings. In fact, it would be logical if ghosts now have the ability to manipulate recording media; why not leave a visual imprint on it? That is not my beef.

My beef is that the event we talk about here does not support that such phenomena took place. In short, it might happen, but it didn't happen here. I have stated why earlier in this thread, but in short, in that case the phenomena would not have been discovered until the MiniDV was reviewed. Now, Jason saw it in the camera as it happened and the MiniDV recorded what the camera saw. Not the other way around.

It's the reasoning that bugs me, not the validity of this or that paranormal theory which is implied.

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I am under the impression that the belief is that the nature of spirits is such that their presence, or their "voice" has some effect on Electro Magnetic Fields. They move in front of K2's and whatever they consider their voices can effect magnetic tape.

With the advent of digital recorders, this idea must change unless the nature of the spirits is such that somehow their actions can read, manipulate, and rewrite binary files in various formats ( .mp3,.wav, etc.) on various media.

Pretty impressive for a ghost that needs to be told what a flashlight is !

Therefore, the FLIR screen showed and the Min-DV recorded information that was changed by the spirits effect on EMF acting on the internal componants of the FLIR before the signal reached it's screen.

Think about it … just why would a spirit show any heat signature at all ?
There dosen't appear to be reports of "hot spots".

E V(ideo) P at work !

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