September 11, 2008
GH: Slater Mill
This week the intrepid investigators we all know and love visited the Pawtucket Patriot Brewery. What's that? I'm sorry, I'm being told I've confused Ghost Hunters with a classic Family Guy episode. In fact, our favorite ghost hunters did go to Pawtucket, but to investigate Slater Mill, an 18th century textile factory formerly the site of emplyoment for up to nine children at a time.
Obviously, child labor laws no longer permit such things but apparently adults were too big to effectively get inside the looms and other machines, changing bobbins and whatnot. Children, on the other hand, were just the right size. Unfortunately, since they often were performing maintenence on the machines as they were running accidents were not uncommon and sometimes resulted in maiming or death.
During the walkthrough their host Cheryl seemed very bubbly and excited. I'm not sure if she was being overly tour-guidish or what (obviously we only see part of what happens) but towards the end I got the impression Jay was a bit annoyed and/or getting antsy to get the tour over with. Anyone else get that vibe too, or maybe it's just me?
The main building, Slater Mill proper, was built in 1793 but there is also another building on the property, Wilkinson Mill which was built a bit later around 1810. One of the things pointed out on the tour was a water wheel inside Wilkinson Mill which is said to turn occasionally even though the water source is gated the the gate is closed. This was one of the first things Jay & Grant looked at and they determined that the water level was nearly at the top of the gate, so a little extra rain and it would spill right over, causing the wheel to turn a bit. Pretty straightforward debunking, good stuff.
During the investigation there was also a moment where Kris Williams and Joe Chin were asking "the spirits" to turn on some of the machinery and suddenly we hear a machine spring to life. I was immediately on guard, because whatever it was turned on in another room and that just makes me a whole lot more suspicious of third-party intervention than if the machine right next to Kris had suddenly come to life, but as it turned out the machine in question was just a compressor which goes on and off randomly as part of its regular operation.
The investigation wasn't all debunking though. Jay & Grant brought their trusty K-2 meter (of course) and had it set on a chair by itself. They then proceeded to invite any spirits who might be around to touch it — and it lit up. Next they asked a series of questions and seemed to be getting responses (in the form of "yes" or "no answer"); if their question and answer session is to be taken at face value then they were communicating with an entity that was a 9-year-old boy from Central Falls. They zeroed in on the age by asking "are you an adult", "are you a child", "are you older than…" and then proceeded to ask it where it was from and offered the names of three nearby towns, getting an answer only when they said the name of the third town, Central Falls.
They also asked a number of questions based on the people who were in the room: Jay, Grant, an audio guy and a sound guy, two of which were bald (it's relevant!) — are there 4 people in the room? are 2 of them bald? both got positive responses from the meter. What's more, they repeated the experiment by asking the same questions about age and home town in different ways and they only got positive responses when they asked questions indicating the boy was 9 and from Central Falls. At one point they moved to another building and tried to contact the boy again, and received the same responses again.
In a word, this was astounding. Not only was the K-2 meter several feet from the nearest person, not only did they repeat the experiment and get the same result, but they repeated the experiment at a second location and also got the same result. Putting aside the possibility that this evidence could be proof positive that there's something to all this ghost stuff after all, I do see two other possibilities but neither seems terribly likely (or likeable).
First, it's possible it was edited to look really impressive but perhaps there were huge delays between question and answer and other inconsistencies we weren't made aware of. The problem with this possibility is that Jay & Grant vouched for how impressive this was, so either it really happened pretty much the way we saw it in the final cut of the show or else they're not being honest with their audience. My personal policy is if any sort of "hoax" requires more than a single person be "in" on it then I have to give the benefit of the doubt because otherwise I'd be setting up a scenario where there would be no possible way anything TAPS presented would be good enough and I'd have to think everything was a conspiracy.
The second possibility is both more and less plausible: on the one hand it only requires a single person to make it work but on the other hand, I don't really know how or if it could be technically accomplished. In a nutshell, what if one of the four people in that room had some sort of device in their pocket that sent out an EMF pulse? I have no idea what specifically would do it, if anything, but some sort of battery operated device in their pocket that has a button they can push, and when they push it the device creates an electromagnetic field on the same band as the K-2 meter?
As I said, this explanation has the benefit of only requiring a single culprit, but it's a bit science-fictioney and almost seems laughable even to suggest it — I mean what, are we in a Scooby Doo cartoon here? Still, considering they repeated the experiment it seems impossible that they were picking up something random, environmental or otherwise. When it comes right down to it, we don't know if ghosts exist for certain but we can be pretty close to 100% sure someone in the U.S. knows how to create a pocket sized device with a button and a battery that can remotely set off a K-2 meter.
Come to think of it, did anyone notice if Grant's hands were in his pockets while he was asking the questions? Obviously check out Jay too, if you're going back to watch again. Unfortunately we never see the two crew members so that leaves a permanent unknown in our little investigation.
…and of course that means if neither Jay nor Grant seem to be doing anything suspicious then maybe it's a crew member, maybe it's a conspiracy or maybe it's actually real. Frustrating.
They caught a couple of EVPs too, both of which were apparently on cue. Grant said he told the 9 year old boy to shout into the recorder and we hear something that sounds (sort of) like a child's voice saying, "Hello". There was some talk of it being a woman's voice, but I'll go ahead and say it could just as easily have been a little boy as a woman. The possibility of a cat was also raised, and I think that's a very good point to raise, because it could just as easily have been a cat as a little boy or a woman, however no one on the team saw a cat on site and Steve seemed doubly sure of it because apparently he likes to stop and make friends with cats. It was a bit of a weird moment… and then we move on.
The second EVP is (even) less intelligible than the first, but in its timing it is even more impressive. Grant said, "We're going to need you to shout your full name as loud as you can… * Can you do that for us please?" and then Jay says, "Shout it right next to the green light. * "
* marks the spot where there what seems to be an odd voice (I would say not the same as the first voice, however) which seems to say, "Edward" the first time and then when Grant keeps talking and then Jay also asks we hear a nearly identical inflection of "Edward," but louder. Now, I'm not convinced it's a voice nor that it's saying "Edward" but the two spots where the sound occurs seem like natural points for someone to jump in and answer — and it seems even more intuitive that after they continued to ask (even though they'd already been answered) that the second answer should be louder. Whatever the sounds are, to me they seemed nearly identical except for volume.
All in all, there was some impressive evidence in this investigation, but is it evidence of something paranormal or is it evidence of an impressively executed hoax? I'm not sure.
Filed under Ghost Hunters, Posts by Logisti
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Comments on GH: Slater Mill »
Logisti @ 8:36 pm
… Stay tuned for the Pettibone Tavern write-up coming in the next day or so!
kevin @ 9:28 pm
I noticed the K-2 meter and voice recorder were placed next to each other on the chair. Could there be any electrical interference coming from the recorder causing the K-2 meter to light up? Is the recorder voice activated?
blinddog50 @ 10:03 pm
Logisti,
You need to get out more.
Have you never seen a remote controlled fart machine?
Same principle, different results.
They may have also figured out that by keying their two-radios they could set off the K2.
TP @ 10:13 pm
Overall, I enjoyed the episode. I am very skeptical about the K2. Maybe they use it all the time and only show it to us when they get some action, but still. I think it would be very easy to hook a remote up to it and cause it to light up, probably without any electro magnetism.
Who knows, I hope it's real.
Nice review!
ninjakitty @ 11:00 pm
the name didn't sound like 'edward' at all to me! it sounded like 'humphrey' but what do i know. why didn't someone look up records of the mill to see if any children by that name were there? though, maybe they don't keep have them.
i want the k2 to be real! but it just seems too good to be true. i also was curious whether the digital recorder laying near the k2 meter was amplifying emf from other sources, or otherwise interfering.
bullerspoke @ 4:11 am
Impressing and the K2. Contradiction in terms. Yet that contradiction occured. The impressing thing about the K2 indicent was the performance on cue, which was repeated in two different locations. Light it up and keep it lit, Jay asks, and it does. Two times, in two different location.
If it happened as we are to believe in the episode it is astounding. But then again the possibility of dishonest editing and hoaxing is there and does casts a shadow on the whole thing. But my premisse is that they do not hoax as general practice and the number of people involved in the show makes it less likely.
The problem with the K2 incident is that we have no clue on how the K2 meter was set up, how low intereference it lights up on. There was no controls put down to avoid for false readings. One thing that I reacted on was that they did not take out their usual EMF meters to measure the strength and intensity of the field the K2 reacted upon.
In short, it is an impressive incident that warrants further investigation, but to be evidence there are to many variables in play. If it can be reproduced, in the same settings and with sufficient controls in play, we have at truly intriguing unexplainable phenomena.
As for now, the K2 meter is way too suspicious to be the basis for conclusive evidence. And I really can't assess evidence collected with the K2, there is not enough data from and on the K2 and also to many variables in play, and furthermost a haphazard and weak theory.
The EVP's was rather clear, but I also heard something like "humphrey" rather than "edward" but they are way to inconclusive to really pin down what the say. Again it's the performing on cue that's impressing, Say your name, sound, say our name loud, a louder sound.
An impressive, and frustrating episode. But the believers sure got their fix. As for the rest of us, the fence just got bigger.
Wes @ 7:53 am
I don't think the K2 evidence was that impressive because of the supposed affirmative nature of the responses — if you have a device that goes off randomly and you ask "is your name Bill" and get no response and then ask "is your name Billybob" and get a response, how does that prove anything — Because they got consistent results, you may argue. But that's not true – even in the heavily edited portion of the K2 session we saw there was a major contradiction. Grant asked "are you older than 5" and got no response. So clearly the ghost is younger than 5 – but wait! A few follow up questions, and we determine the ghost is 9 (but he's not older than 5?!).
The way the question were phrased and the selective way they were accepted could have just as easily led them to determine the mill was haunted by a 411 year old troll from New Jersey.
Yeti33 @ 7:56 am
I noticed Jay looking like he was getting annoyed too. I'm still very skeptical of the K2. I wish we could see an un edited version of one of these investigations. I know they would be hours long but that way we could see that they use them all the time or not. As far as the "Edward" EVP. I thought I could hear "Riley". All in all, it was a good show this time. Except for the second half. Why don't they put the parts that they don't find any evidence in the first half of the hour?
Lar @ 8:03 am
The problem with their illuminated GyroGhostinator aka The K2 Meter is it doesn't make sense. Ugh? If this thing worked as INCREDIBLELY as it appears too, all of us would own it. Especially when it's available for only $50.00 by it's "creator," at the Unknown Magazine Store – K-II EMF Meter Kit.
Why spend $22,000.00 on gear when for $50.00 you can CLEARLY talk to the other side.
Why don't they invite the person, in this case the museum curator, to ask her own questions. THAT always puzzles me.
If anyone buys one of these your first question should be, Is this piece of plastic worth $50 bucks? If the red light blinks twice it means NO!
Cman @ 8:18 am
For me when they say the boy says "hello", I think it sounded more like a 9 year old yelling "Micheal".
Logisti @ 8:46 am
@blinddog50, I thought the results were quite similar, actually
@wes, I think he did get a response at "older than 5" but it was only 1 light, not the strong "all lit up" we saw on some of the other responses. Also, it's likely in part of the "interview" that was left on the cutting room floor Grant explains, "only wave your hand in front of it if the answer is yes, otherwise don't make it light up" or some such.
@Lar, keep in mind they've been doing this for some time and they've never had anything nearly this impressive happen. The first "interview" using the K-2 during the "Manson Murders" investigation comes close, but someone is holding (and capable of manipulating) the K-2 during that entire investigation. Subsequently there were a couple of times that seemed possibly impressive, but possibly coincidental too.
The only time that really stands out in my mind is the Iron Island Museum, where they asked for activity and all of a sudden the thing lit up like we've never seen it light up before. To me, that trumped the weak activity they'd gotten previously — but it also happened to be the investigation (seemingly) just before this one, and we see something similar to that this episode when he asks the "spirit" to "light it up and keep it lit". Both of those last two facts could easily suggest a hoaxster who recently learned a couple of new tricks.
Brad @ 9:56 am
Where can you get a K2 meter? I want to try it out. Also, is it just me or is Jay always the one who drives the van? Why doesn't anyone else drive?
kingofseattle @ 2:06 pm
"Come to think of it, did anyone notice if Grant's hands were in his pockets while he was asking the questions? Obviously check out Jay too, "
Just watched this episode on youtube and caught the scene where Jason and Grant are asking question in front of the K2 Meter.
The results are mixed. In some scenes, Jason has his hands (in what appears to be) his pocket but not for every question he asked. Grant appeared to have his hands visible throughout.
I can't really call that suspect though because im not sure how much editing was done on the scene before broadcast.
Sully @ 2:21 pm
Dunno, guys, this K2 Meter thing is too much like an electronic Ouiji Board.
Same problem I have with EVPs — it's a paranormal phenomenon, sure, but ghosts are just one possible explanation out of dozens. We might not even even be aware of many of the possible causes, owing to the limitations of our own scientific knowledge or experience. To their credit, Jason and Grant seemed moderately skeptical, and didn't really label the mill as positively haunted.
There was a nice moment there, though, when Jason told the putative ghost kid that he could come home with him. Jason really did seem bemused, and a little bit wistful. If it is a nine-year-old boy haunting the place, that's sort of sad to think about, a little child stuck between life and death, not understanding what's happened to him. Gotta be lonesome for the kid. That moment was the highlight of the episode, for me.
bullerspoke @ 3:02 pm
K2 is indeed a electronic ouija board. You get the answers you ask for. In fact, you can construct a conversation simply by interpreting blips or no blips. Any "information" is coming from your questions. However, when it performs on cue, like when Jason says, light it up and keep it lit is more impressive because there is no two ways of interpreting that result. Either it lights up and keeps lit or it doesn't. This does not prove it is manipulated by anything paranormal in itself, especially without basic protocol, but it is indeed an anomaly. One thing that ought to be standard is to pair the K2 with a standard EMF-meter to measure the strength of any field the K2 finds. Now we don't know if it's faint background radiation passing by through or what. As far as I understand anything under three is natural background radiation, anything over three is either man-made or paranormal (in the broadest sense).
As for EVP's, they are not paranormal. They are audio anomalies, in some cases seemingly unexplainable, but nothing indicates paranormal origin since natural origin isn't ruled out. Without basic protocol we can not rule out natural origin, matrixing or simply hoaxery.
The thing is that if you take away the K2 "conversation" this investigation really didn't give much at all. EVP's are not enough, even for TAPS (we are told anyway), and basically that's what they got, and ambigious ones aswell.
For me, the only really substantial was the K2 meter lighting up and stying lit on cue. However there is very limited data and it all relies on the meter, no other meters or measuring device was used, or if they were used, such as the FLIR, it yielded nothing.
Sully @ 3:15 pm
I agree, bullerspoke!
Once this K2 meter started lighting up like a pinball machine, I would have liked to seen TAPS break out the FLIR, the still cameras, the audio recorders, basically throwing everything they had at the area to see if they could catch anything.
In fairness, though, perhaps they didn't want to scare the "ghost" away with too much activity. Then again, GHI tried this "saturation" technique during at least one episode this season.
What it all comes down to is that these phenonmena are interesting, but they're not conclusive. Unless I see an apparition with my own eyes in the visible spectrum, or I hear a voice with my own ears in the audible spectrum, I'm not going to believe it's a haunting.
Paul Anthony @ 3:44 pm
No one knows what frequencies ghosts operate on. Is it possible for a K-11 meter to be tuned in to the exact frequency? Do we have a device that goes off randomly, can we rule out the possibility of human intervention.
Anyone familiar with K-11 knows the unit has only a pressure sensitive power switch which some skeptics have said makes the meter very easy to manipulate to receive "answers" from beyond. I have inserted an article that explains how the sensor switch can be modified by either jamming a dime into the space between the switch and housing or by adding a mini toggle switch to the meter.
What if our ghost busters modified the K-11 to do just that? I think it’s fair to say the K-11 works off the RF spectrum. I find it difficult to believe the K-11 is technically designed to have EMF shielding device. Which if it did would eliminate walkie talkie, cell phone or other electrical interference. By passing the thumb sensor switch
leads me to suspect someone off camera may have used a device to Manipulate the responses.
The article was gracious enough to provide a diagram of the wiring procedure.
http://ghost-mart.com/product/emf13_K-II_emf_K2_meter.html
63leopard @ 3:50 pm
ninjakitty – I too thought I heard "Humphrey" both times. It would be the old fashioned kind of name you'd expect, maybe; as opposed to, like, "Kevin" or something. Also, did pick up on some impatience in Jason's demeanor. Maybe I was projecting my annoyance with the woman, but totally agree with you; why not look into the records of the place for names to throw out? You'd think Rhode Island would have some written history or news items from the turn of the century. I am more entertained by Logisti's reviews than by the show, nowadays. Love the site!
Logisti @ 3:51 pm
Sully, if everything occurred the way it was presented then I disagree with the assertion that there could be "dozens" of explanations. Clearly there is an intelligence at work here:
1) They repeated the experiment 3 times and consistently received "affirmative" responses or no response to the same questions consistently.
2) They repeated the experiment at 2 different physical locations (different building)
3) They reworded their own questions (to ask the same thing in a different way) when they repeated the experiment and still received the appropriate response / non-response.
We could come up with some arbitrary number to say, well if they can repeat it TWENTY times then I might want to take a closer look, but technically being able to duplicate their experiment and achieve the same result even one additional time qualifies it as a scientific result.
Frankly, twice may not have cut it for me either considering there are plenty of uncontrolled variables, but after three times I'm convinced someone was answering, I'm just not convinced they were dead.
Logisti @ 3:53 pm
Paul Anthony, they are using a model with a flip-switch (not pressure sensitive) which they leave on a chair (no one is near it to physically manipulate it)
Also, it is K-II or K-2 technically. The K-11 I'm sure will be coming out as an upgrade at some point in the future