March 5, 2008
GH: Fort Mifflin
In the premiere episode of Ghost Hunters Season 4 the TAPS team investigates Fort Mifflin, a military base on the Delaware River in Philidelphia, Pennsylvania that was used in both the American Revolutionary and Civil Wars.
There were a lot of reports of activity among the staff but one really stands out in my mind. They get a lot of elementary school groups going in tours there and one of the staff members was giving a tour to a bunch of young kids when they apparently began to get very upset. Some of them turned visibly pale and one of them pointed to an upstairs window in the Officer's Quarters behind the tour guide and asked, "What's wrong with that lady?"
The guide himself turned around but didn't see anything. He knew, however, that the window they were pointing to at one time belonged to one of the only officers on the base who brought his family with him, and that there had been a tragedy. Apparently the mother got in a fight with the daughter, the daughter somehow died and the mother was hysterical with grief for weeks before she just decided to tie one end of a rope around her neck, the other around the outdoor railing, and take a running jump into the courtyard.
Although this incident with the kids isn't anything that could really be considered solid evidence I do find it intriguing because it involves multiple people simultaneously, none of whom knew or could have even guessed that there had been a tragedy involving a woman on that very spot.
Later when Jay and Grant went into the room they tried to do an EVP session contacting the mother but instead Jay heard a female voice say something that sounded like, "Mommy". When they played back the audio it did seem like there was a pretty clear voice saying exactly that, not once but twice.
Technically this isn't even considered an EVP since it was audible to the human ear but that just makes it more impressive to me. I feel compelled to mention though, that there does remain the possibility that the sound was simply the squeaky hinge of a window shutter swinging in a breeze or something. "Mommy" after all is a fairly simple word and not beyond the ability of nature to accidentally imitate.
The second area of interest during this investigation was a new area called Casement #11. I say new because apparently this area was not even open to the public yet and TAPS had the honor of being among the first to really poke around there. Right when they first went down Jay said he thought he saw someone crawling away from them, but he couldn't really maneuver and whatever it was vanished into the dark or around a corner. The ceilings were low and some of the passages were very narrow (it apparently was used to hold prisoners) and before being down there too long Jay got claustrophobic and went topside.
Oddly enough, his first thought seemed to be that it would be a good idea for Kris to go down there alone (at least he'd been with Grant!) but Kris was game and got as far as two rooms in before getting too spooked to continue. She plead flashlight trouble and apologized for not being able to handle it. No biggie — Jay just sent Tango in alone instead.
Tango had been goofing around with Steve, who has now fully acknowledged that his fear of "spiders" extended to anything remotely spiderish, including all insects. I think he bet Tango $60 to go crawl under a porch or something, I don't know for sure because I wasn't paying attention. They weren't being very useful is what I'm saying, I guess. Tango turned that right around with his solo trip down into Casement #11, where he lasted nearly 10 minutes before getting totally freaked out and rushing up the ladder.
Did I say "turned that right around" ? I should have said, "Continued to act as comic relief". That's okay Dave, we all have our bad days. I should probably mention here that during the course of this investigation Tango finally had that really insane personal experience he's been craving — on a trip to the bathroom.
As he was going into the men's room he saw something block the light coming from the women's bathroom, as if someone was about to step out of the doorway (there was no actual door). I think he might have even said he saw someone's leg. In any case, knowing that there shouldn't have been anyone there he went for a look, saw no one, crossed the threshold into the women's bathroom and checked every stall. If they hadn't all been empty, he might have had quite a different sort of personal experience.
So finally Jay and Grant go back down there into Casement #11 and Jay keeps hearing shuffling footsteps. He sees a shadow that appears to cross outside the room he's in, through the hall towards the area where Grant is. Grant dutifully reports that the air by him is starting to get very cold. Just as it seems he's stopped checking around the room with his flashlight and is about to lean into this crawlspace to talk to Jay in the next room he jumps like someone who's just seen a ghost.
In fact, he said he wasn't scared but was completely startled to see someone in the crawlway looking straight up at him. He described a man with unkempt and unclean blonde hair, pale skin and unshaven. When he looked back a second later the man was gone but I must say that Grant's initial reaction seemed very genuine to me. As I mentioned, right before he turned towards the crawlway the look on his face looked to me like, "Okay, guess there's nothing here after all" and then from zero to momentary-freakout in .3 seconds flat.
There were two interesting EVPs caught around this area. Both are fairly long and complex (compared to "Mommy") and both had interesting tie-ins that made them a little more impressive than they were by themselves. The first one sounds perhaps like someone with a hillbilly accent saying, "The boss wants it deeper". They found out during the reveal that during the 1860's the tunnels were renovated and they actually did dig the rooms a little deeper.
The second EVP was thought to be saying, "May I have some water, sir?" but this one is less clearly identifiable as a human voice, in my opinion. The interesting thing here was apparently one of the sound guys was busy guzzling a bottle of water at the time that this was recorded — and again, this was an area where prisoners were kept, and likely not given full amenities.
There was some FLIR evidence as well. Two, to be precise, and though I'm not entirely thrilled with either of them one is far more impressive than the other. The less impressive one is of a dark splotch on the floor that moves into and out of the frame while the camera is relatively stationary. For some reason everyone seemed to find this very impressive but it was indistinct enough (and in the right place) to just be a shadow or reflection from someone moving behind the camera.
In the second piece of FLIR footage the first thing of note is that in a room full of cots, one of them appears to be slightly warmer than all the rest — but only slightly. Jay & Grant ponder over this for a bit and notice that when they put their hand on the cot it leaves a much, much brighter mark — which they actually seem to take as a bad thing, but I don't necessarily think so. From the pattern (and the fact that there was any extra heat at all) I'd say it really did look like someone had been lying in it or sitting on it almost ten minutes before.
J & G then continue to walk through the room, aiming their FLIR down a number of narrow hallways as they walk by through a central hallway. In one of them there is what appears to be the very clear (and very hot) image of a man standing in front of the wood-burning stove, presumably warming himself. To me, it looked like his back was to the camera and he was facing the stove. They also said the stove was giving off heat but to me it looked like maybe the metal had just warmed slightly because of the person standing near it (as metal warms up much faster than most materials).
Now, on the surface this seems extremely impressive. My first problem with it though, is that Jay and Grant never miss anything like that on the FLIR when it happens. One of them holds the camera (with its built-in screen) and the other holds an external screen, so both of them are watching the FLIR footage simultaneously as they film it. For them both to miss the clear outline of a person standing in an otherwise cold, dead room seems incredible — in the original sense of the word, which is to say I don't believe it.
I think there really was someone sitting on that bunk and I think there really was someone down that corridor standing in front of the stove. I don't think that person was dead, I think they were very much alive and probably a member of TAPS or the Pilgrim crew. I'll even go so far as to suggest perhaps the reason Jay & Grant didn't catch it at the time is because they did catch it but happened to know so-and-so had just walked down there and so they ignored it and forgot about it.
I'd rather not think about the other possible explanation; I'd like to believe they wouldn't stage something like that but it does occur to me that not catching it when it happened was incredibly convenient considering they would have had to rush into a dead-end corridor and any real person in there would have been handily trapped between three walls and two ghost hunters. If I were going to stage this I would know I could "notice" the cot and mess around there but all bets were off with the "apparition" because noticing him would leave him with no escape from the camera crew.
Now, I'm not accusing anyone of anything, but I'm just saying when you consider how many times they say, "Stop, go back, what was that?" and rewind the thermal footage for some little blip it just seems highly improbable that when they get a blazing-hot full-body apparition standing in a black-cold room that neither of them noticed.
Wrapping this up, I found their final analysis — frankly — a little stupid. They said they thought the place had lots of residual hauntings. Now, for those that aren't familiar with the term what they mean is that the "ghosts" act more like a recording of the past that is played over and over. They believe there are different types of hauntings and in the case where a spirit interacts with the "real world" they consider that an "intelligent haunting".
Personally I think that if ghosts or spirits exist the simplest explanation is usually the best (as always) and there is likely to be only one type of haunting. I would speculate (since everyone else is speculating, why not me?) that the so-called "residual" hauntings are just "intelligent" hauntings that spend most of their time "reliving" these moments from their lives.
But that's neither here nor there, my beef in this case is that on the one hand you have a purported ghost that seemed to be engaging Jay and Grant on some level and actually made eye contact with Grant, and then on the other hand you have an EVP which is supposed to be asking the sound guy for some of his water. On what planet is a haunting like that considered "residual" ? If we're to believe all of their evidence is exactly how they interpret it then it clearly points to an Intelligent Haunting. When these guys can't even properly follow the made-up rules of their supposed field of expertise I'm not sure what to think but it doesn't inspire me with confidence.
Filed under Ghost Hunters, Posts by Logisti
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Comments on GH: Fort Mifflin »
Jerry Johnson @ 12:06 am
I liked your view on this episode. I always wonder if "ghosts" are really around. I also watched the show and you thoughts hit home. Has anything ever happened to you?
if so, let me know. I think most people including myself has stories. Thanks!
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Logisti @ 12:12 am
Jerry, if you'd like to share a personal experience we've just added a forum for exactly that purpose. Personally, I've never really experienced anything spectacular that I couldn't explain — but I'm open to the possibility.
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CrowTRobot @ 9:04 am
Good point about the residual/intelligent haunting analysis. I completely missed that one. But what really bugged me was their handling of Casement "11. Apparently, something was going on in there; and they decide to send Kris down there alone?? THAT wasn't happening. And then just Tango? First, doesn't this break GH's 'never go alone' rule"? and second, J & G already had unsettling experiences - and they were together. Why didn't they bring the whole team together and go in and do a thorough check?
And while I'm not quite sold on this whole EVP thing, I still find them interesting. I thought the, "May I have some water?" EVP actually sounded more like "…..Authur.." which, I think, would have actually been answering their question. And was it just me, or did they seem to really rush through the EVPs during the analysis/reveal? It didn't seem like they gave us viewers a chance to make out what we thought before GH just jumped in with their opinions. And even then, I kept wanting to hear them a couple more times.
The hot spot on the cot: If I'm not mistaken, a cat walked past them during the initial tour in the beginning of the episode. That spot looked about the size of a cat; and if it had heard people, especially strangers, coming towards the room, it would have jumped down minutes before they got there. Just a thought.
Still, good to have GH back.
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Logisti @ 9:36 am
I don't remember the cat but you bring up an excellent point: Even when "no one" was in a given area that doesn't mean a hot spot mightn't have natural causes.
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Todd @ 10:58 am
Yes there was a cat that was visible during the walk-through.
I'm with Crow on the "Arthur" sound.
There seemed to a lot of filler video last night. They used a lot of the handheld video that wasn't really pointing at anything. If I were Jason and saw the amount of just waving of the camera, I would be sending the team to film school or something just to get some better camera control.
I wasn't impressed with the cot warm spot. It appeared to me that it could have just been noise. There was one point toward the end of the analysis, I believe, where the entire end of the bunk was the same shade as the "hot spot".
And while the skeptic agrees with Logisti on the potential of a crew member being the source of the figure, I have to wonder if Jason might not be a little more cautious after some of the stuff they have been burned on.
And by the way, Destination Truth was interesting last night.
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CrowTRobot @ 12:07 pm
Oh, and one more thought on the EVPs. (I had forgotten this until I saw it brought up on another website this morning.) When I first heard the "Mommy" sound, I actually thought it said "Help me".
And, the related experience of an elementary school group WAS quite impressive. However, I'd be interested in some kind of follow-up on that story. I understand the need to treat this carefully, considering we're talking about children; still, I also know how quickly mass hysteria spreads in elementary-aged children - and it only takes one 'joker' and a friend to get the ball rolling…
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Jef @ 2:33 pm
Interesting episode. My Impressions -
I thought it noteworthy that the time stamp was back in action on our good friend FLIR.
I got a good chuckle when the caretaker said something about wanting TAPS to come and do some scientific research… I'd go to the TiVo for the exact quote but my son is watching his Spongebob.
No debunking in this episode. Obviously a lot of ground to cover but still… they didn't ever seem even a little skeptical about anything.
I thought it was odd that they only took a team of 5 for a 42 acre site. They couldn't have dusted off one more body for what they kept telling us was a great honor to be the first the explore blah, blah, blah?
Will we ever have an episode where they don't cut away to Jay or Grant describing what an EVP is? I get it!
The reveal did feel rushed. I wonder if the producers were weary of time constraints and had J & G rush through.
Good episode though. Looking forward to next week!
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Shawn @ 6:22 pm
I completely agree with you on the whole thing with the FLIR as the first thing I thought of too was, "How could they have missed that?" Not to mention, in their review why would they assume right away that this must be a ghost seeing how hot the image was? Shouldn't their immediate conclusion have been that someone had to be down there with them rather than claiming it to be some sort of apparition. Since no one knows if ghosts exist, how can they assume one would give off heat like that to be registered on the thermal anyway?
As for Grant's reaction to seeing a "face", I have to disagree and say that it looked a little staged to me, especially in light of Grant always being the one who has these amazing experiences but always when the cameras aren't able to record it.
Shawn
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Robbin @ 2:37 pm
This was a fun episode to watch or me. I liked the story of the children seeing the lady. I was not impressed with Tango and his first experience. The EVP's I found to be very digital sounding, they were very odd to me. Grant seeing the face, he seemed seriously startled to me and I don't think that was faked at all.
I too am wondering why they are sending people in by themselves, especially realtive newbies. I look forward to the next one….
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Crymsyn @ 5:41 pm
I was reading on another site that some thought that the small blob on the floor caught by the thermal looked a lot like a cat. I went back and watched it several times and it indeed looks like a cat slowly walking towards them then leaping away ( probably trying not to get stepped on in the dark). THey do need to have professionals go over the footage and EVPs to discount real or natural occurances.
I have a friend who lives in a "haunted" house and she sends me her EVP's and I go through them editing out natural noises and most of the time the voices end up being something natural. I guess you could call it cleaning them up. I heard some very specific answers to questions but I could not say with conviction that it was a ghost answering. Some were just noises that sounded vaguely like human voices. MY point is she told me to listen at specific points to what she thought was an answer but all I heard was a natural noise. I'd love to get a hold of copies of their (TAPS) EVP's to be able to analyze them closely.
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Wes @ 5:49 pm
One of the (many) things I find amusing about ghost hunting as practiced by TAPS and others is that ghosts can show up as heat on thermal images AND produce cold spots … as for the episode, I agree that it seems unusual they would have missed the FLIR image as it was being recorded . At least this wasn't Ghost Hunters International and the bountiful "moving shadows" that never appear on film!
I agree with Todd that Destination Truth was a very interesting follow to GH.
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numyer @ 7:34 pm
Very nice site here. I was happy to see the return of new episodes of GH. I had gotten to the point where I didn't even watch the last episode of GHI. The preview I saw had Josh Gates saying something like "Brian won't pander to a ghost" cut to a shot of Brian pounding on a wall or something yelling "C'mon out" that was enough for me.
Anyways I liked the Fort Mifflin episode. I had the same exact thought during it. They made a point of the "residual" haunting but their experiences seemed to point to interaction.
I can't figure why they missed the FLIR either, that was about the cleanest outlined image I have seen on the show.
Grant's encounter was very interesting, whatever he saw - I am sure he saw something, seemed to genuinely surprise him.
Which makes me not understand why they would send Kris down there alone, it just seemed like an area anyone would get creeped in, so you'd think you'd want a couple people in there - also for their past reasoning of having someone to back up evidence. Or was this a TV thing? If she flips out does that make for a good commercial insert? They certainly have Steve jumping at yet another spider to use.
The evps were very strange sounding, almost like a high powered communication radio bleeding through like hot-rodded CBs do through sound systems.
"Will we ever have an episode where they don't cut away to Jay or Grant describing what an EVP is? I get it!" - Haha I laughed out loud reading that comment Jef - it is SO true.
So, Good episode, glad the show is back with new eps, fun to watch, fun to discuss.
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krystal moore @ 6:50 pm
didnt i hear something about grant being a trained magician? i dont know id love to believe but i feel his surprise at the face seemed exactly how id look if i was going to try and freak someone out and tell them i saw a face…..and i did notice about how they called it a residual haunting even though the ghost interacted with them asking for water. and i read somewhere that everyone went into casemate 11 alone to try and get individual experiences thay may coincide but they edited it out. i was also bothered by that when they sent kris alone till i read this, but i understand why they did that. good episode anyways, good entertainment.
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Logisti @ 8:44 pm
krystal, I believe it's Dave Tango you're thinking of who trained as a magician. I think it was brought up when he debunked the Queen Mary bed-unmaking tape that his training as a magician helped him be a better debunker and spot clever tricks.
As for Grant's reaction to the face, it's certainly possible that he was acting but I felt it looked genuine enough to give him the benefit of the doubt (in that particular instance). As stated earlier though, I'm less inclined to believe he and Jay "happened" to miss seeing that very clear image on their FLIR.
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Todd @ 11:07 pm
When I went back and watched the explanation of the residual vs. intelligence explanation I came away with two impressions:
1.) Grant did not explain it very well
2.) All 3 EVPs could be residual. The "mommy" voice would be linked to the officer's family. The "dig it deeper" would be linked to the workmen. The "water" voice would not be outside the realm of possible for a solitary confinement.
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Kay @ 4:08 pm
Great comments! Most of my concerns have been addressed here, except one. It may be minor, but points to the editing issues that have come up in the past.
Kris has her hair up when descending into Casement 11 but when she emerges it is down. I have read around to see if anyone had anything to say about this — it seems a major continuity error to me… maybe she went down into Casement 11 twice?
Again, minor, but it gives me doubts about the whole enterprise.
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bill kelly @ 4:42 pm
Overall, i thought this was a good show.
as far as grant's reaction? it looked real and we have to remember. no matter how many places they have gone, they're still gonna go into a place with high energy. so when they crawl around creepy old places like this, a quick turn one way or another and it's easy to see things in the walls that might not really be there because of having high energy going in. watching the old episodes, as soon as they see a place like this as they drive up they get all excited. not saying he didnt see anything, but….
I like watching GH, but will add this. Especially since someone brought it up. I'm liking Destination Truth a lot more because they take their evidence - this week the Yetti - and really show the viewers how they put it through rigorous scrutiny before we see it. I know post-p;roduction has to be done as someone who earned a Comm/Media degree and worked on films, but thanks to this site, I have some reservations about Pilgrim.
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krystal moore @ 5:04 am
"Logisti @ 8:44 pm:
krystal, I believe it's Dave Tango you're thinking of who trained as a magician."
thanks so much for clearing that up i thought that sounded really bad, whew….i can look at a lot of what grant says with less jaded eyes now lol.
"As stated earlier though, I'm less inclined to believe he and Jay "happened" to miss seeing that very clear image on their FLIR."
true i remember one where they were at a church or something and were outside riding on a gokart there was a tiny flicker and they scrutinized over it immediately and that was a super fast flash the flir in this episode of mifflin was on the "apparition" for a good few secs it looked like….
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Iowa Mike @ 9:54 pm
Ever hear of Post Production? This is where the pencil necks cut and paste and add their extra Hollywood garbage.
This is why J&G's comments don't make sense; it's not edited correctly.
As for J&G not seeing the heat source in the room? You try looking at a little screen in a dark room you have hardly ever been in before and see if you don't take your eyes off the screen to try and see where you are going. I notice how Jason realy moves the camera quickly when he is not looking at it. Complacency is everywhere. If he looked up did he notice the room was even there?
2 cents
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Jef @ 2:09 am
I had another thought about the whole "sending people in alone"
In most cases isn't there at least a camera operator with anyone and who knows who else? Even when a ghost hunter is alone they aren't really alone.
Just sayin.
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Veronimica @ 2:45 pm
I must say, I'm glad I'm not the only one that questioned all of this!
GH has to be one of my favorite shows, but this episode did make me question a few things, especially when I watched it again this morning. Kay, I caught the Kris hair thing too! And missing that FLIR footage… I don't get it either. But typically when something like that happens, they call themselves out. I'm stumped there.
They did debunk the whole self-opening door (sort of); Steve and Tango looked at it and it hadn't moved in months… but there weren't a lot of reports of moving objects to start with. I love it when they rule that stuff out!
I also have to side with Grant being sincere in his reaction. I don't understand why Jay wasn't using a thermal during that scene, because if there had been someone/thing in that window, Jay could have caught it as he was standing in that area, even if we couldn't see it from Grant's position…
Last thought and I'll stop rambling: the "water" evp sounded like "officer" something to me, which would have been an actual answer to the question.
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jim mancini @ 6:32 pm
Why is Kris even in the group. Did Sci-Fi say hey we need a pretty girl to get more people to watch. she is an actress. u can Google her.Always remember everything is on tv. Sci-Fi added shit to mifflin case. they didnt have a choice. if this series wants to go on they need more evidence to get folks to watch.
Ghost adventures documentary actually is better then taps
has anyone seen it
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jim mancini @ 6:34 pm
PS: how many times are they gonna show Steve talking about his fear of spiders and heights with his old ass green shirt on.
and by now. everyone knows what an evp is.
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krystalmoore1986 @ 6:50 pm
at the sci fi board a lot of us decided they should put a little disclaimer at the bottom that says "for a full description of evp,steves gear guide, and more bonus info go to http://www.scifi.com"
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Kevin @ 7:04 pm
I thought the most interesting part of the show was Jay and Grant exploring casement 11. Too bad they weren't wearing head cams or something, so we could at least have a chance to see what they were seeing, or thought they were seeing. I agree with Veronimica … why didn't they take the FLIR down there to try to get some thermal readings?
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Veronimica @ 7:45 pm
Seriously, then they could've backed it up. Earlier in the board someone said it's convenient that Grant always has these experiences and we don't see it; it's really frustrating! I love the show, but don't leave room for me to question what's happening…
Also, I had a thought about the EVP evidence; a couple folks said it sounded really digital. I wonder if they maybe upgraded equipment or maybe that happened when they were cleaning up the track? I didn't listen that closely though, so I could be full of it!
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bill kelly @ 7:45 pm
jim
i thought the same thing. with donna, lisa and paula gone, the "divas of darkness" as they called themselves, i guess so. kris is like a b-movie actress among other things.
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Veronimica @ 7:46 pm
Also, jim? what's the other show you're talking about? What channel is it on?
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jim mancini @ 7:08 pm
scarey but true comes on sci fi. its on before scariest places on earth
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Carli56 @ 5:13 pm
The investigators on GH are never alone. There are production people with them….sound, video, equipment mules, etc. I really can't stomach the investigators that are constantly afraid of their surroundings. Brian aways sees shadows, Donna is afraid of her own shadow, Steve is afraid of…well, anything that moves. Get some investigators that are serious about their mission.
I saw the second girl from GHI (forgot her name, not Donna, the other one) on an episode of Paranormal State. Her home was being investigated by Ryan and crew. Now she is a terrified investigator on GHI. How the heck did that happen?
Ratings, ratings, ratings. It seems that both GH & GHI are trying hard to find something paranormal to report. I agree with the writer above. Why don't they just set up the equipment, do their 8 hour investigation, then leave the stuff alone for a few hours. They have enough production staff to look at all the video and listen to all the audio. Who really believes that Steve, Brian and the other investigators go through all that stuff themselves? Not me.
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Carole @ 7:31 am
Has anyone wondered if Sci-Fi is paying TAPS. I know J+G put out a book a short time ago. And then there is the radio show and the appearances at conventions. There has to be income for both of them from that. Has anyone noticed that Jason has moved to a much larger new house? It was at the end of an episode, the one where his son fell off a swing and broke his arm. The rest of the members of TAPS came over with well wishes and balloons. I know in the beginning of the series, it was mentioned several times that they investigate to help people, not receive payment. I don't think that the clients are paying them, but Sci-Fi Channel has to be. With all the travel to investigate all over the country, their Roto-Rooter salaries can not be supporting this. From what I can surmise, the first season they had their dumpy white van, second season, wonderful new black van and truck probably provided the Sci-Fi or donated by GMC as advertisement. I love these guys, respect what they are doing, just wondering about the financial side of their investigating.
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DL @ 7:26 pm
One thing I noticed was the large airplane either taking off or landing right over the fort at the very end of the show. That could account for EVPs - especially "Mommy" and a request for water: two common things heard on airplanes.
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Leslie @ 11:07 am
a heat signature from a cat walking would not show up as a shadow on the thermal video. this is how the dark spot moving along the bottom of the video was explained. if it is true that a cold spot is a ghost, wouldn't the thermal hit be cold, not hot?
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Robbin @ 11:39 pm
Carol, I am sure that Sci-Fi is paying TAPS, this is a TV show that is generating revenue for Sci-Fi. I think they looked to real investigative groups and picked these two as they seem very credible.
The issue now seems to be that ratings and revenue may be causing credibility issues. I would hate to think so, but this is now a job for these people.
I just hope that Jason stays the course he laid out when on Larry King. Larry King basically said that you realize that if you are hoaxing people you are lowest of the low. Jason assured Larry that there was no hoax being committed.
I hope he meant it.
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ElleAmental @ 10:49 pm
The first recorded incident of the term "mommie" or "mommy" does not appear 1902, according to etymology online. Are we supposed to believe the all ghosts have learned contemporary english? "Mother" or "mamma" would have been common usage for the Revolutionary period and certainly through the Civil War era as well. TAPS needs to study their history if they're going to create "EVPs" that aren't really EVPs!
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Logisti @ 11:06 pm
Wow, now there's an interesting wrench to throw into the discussion! Unfortunately the true-believers do have a ready theory to answer that: spirits can communicate in the native language of whoever is trying to talk to them by… uhm, I guess reading their mind or something.
Some "theories" sound reasonable to me, even if there isn't any evidence to support them. I don't find this particular one remotely reasonable; nevertheless, some would make that assertion.
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ElleAmental @ 11:27 pm
Good point Logisti, I agree it's not the most reasonable assertion. Didn't the TAPS team say these were "residual EVPs". So, they wouldn't be reading anybody's thoughts, they'd just be playing back past incidents. In that case the language should not be contemporary, but I've never had a ghost of any type talk to me, so what do I know?
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Logisti @ 11:46 pm
Yeah, plus I had forgotten this wasn't even an EVP — it was a sound Jason heard while he was in the room and it happened to be captured on tape.
Frankly, I thought it had a fair chance of being a squeaky door hinge so if you're saying the phrase "Mommy" hadn't even been invented yet while this Fort was in use then I don't have any qualms about sealing the deal and tossing that piece of evidence in the garbage pile.
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Stephen @ 12:17 am
Nice research ElleAmental! I wonder how many other EVPs are linguistically implausible like that?
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Logisti @ 8:52 am
Well it didn't escape my notice that GHI was investigating in Germany and Romania, then they go on break and come back investigating in New Zealand and the U.K. Perhaps the producers of the show recognized that they were stretching credibility a little thin by talking to medieval German ghosts in modern English (and occasionally getting alleged responses of the same).
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ElleAmental @ 7:17 pm
I still love the show. They "debunk" the spooks and I love this website because you guys debunk the debunkers!
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beedoo @ 11:11 pm
I think the movement along the bottom of the one FLIR video looks like the "bug-on-the-lens," just with the way that it moves.
The warm spot on the cot did not look like a cat had been there, because it was on the very edge of the bench and a cat would not sit like that. It looked like a partial ass-print. In other words, it looked like someone had been sitting perched on the edge of the cot a while earlier.
I can't say for certain what is up with the "man" figure, but… There is a clear hot spot that looks like a man facing the stove. The guys also point out that there is something hot on the stove–you can see a small hot spot on the stove as well. To me, it looks like a man is pissing on the stove. Seriously. Go look, I swear that is what it is. Man, facing stove, it looks like his arms are in front of him, and the "hot spot" on the stove seems to have a small "trail" reaching toward the figure. Rather like a stream of urine. Who is pissing on the stove? I have no idea, nor do I know why Jay and Grant didn't see it or chose to ignore it, but I believe it is somebody taking a leak on the stove. Somebody agree with me!
Maybe there's a dirty blonde bum who lives there, sits on the cots and pees on stoves.
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