January 11, 2008
GH: St. Augustine Revisit
Well our favorite Ghost Hunters broadcast their first new show in a while the other night, and I believe it will be the last for a few more months to come. They did not disappoint. The location was the St. Augustine Lighthouse, which is a fan favorite as well as one of their own favorites, apparently. The team, showing a little growth since the official end of the season, brought out some new toys with an eye towards better coverage and fewer false positives.
Of particular note was a faraday cage they used to surround a recording device. The faraday cage is basically a wire mesh cage that is intended to reduce or eliminate any stray electrical interference which might have affected the recorder and created what might be interpreted as the recording of a spirit (EVP).
I'm not entirely clear if such a device works, and frankly it occurs to me that if Spirits are supposedly manipulating electromagnetic currents then if it did work maybe you're actually silencing real, actual spirit communications (which sort of highlights a central theme in Ghost Hunting: Every device used to hunt ghosts has some unfounded theory behind it), but in any case it's nice to know that they're trying to eliminate false positives. Although, I'm not exactly sure when or if they even used the thing since I saw Kris and Tango walking around with the handheld recordings just as they always do.
Also worth mentioning are the motion sensing devices the team brought along. One type of device would sound an audible alarm if it was tripped while the other is a camera rig used to find animals in the wild (if you've watched any shows on Bigfoot recently you've probably seen these). Another thumbs up for the attempt to get more coverage without forcing the team to weed through four times as much footage.
Of course, there's a little problem with this as well. During their first visit to the lighthouse one of the most impressive pieces of evidence the team caught was footage of what appears to be a figure leaning over the railing at the top of the lighthouse. This figure did not set off the motion-sensor that controlled the light, but as Jay & Grant ran towards it a few moments later they set off the motion sensors themselves.
So it would seem their last visit should have been enough for them to know that whatever was (or wasn't) going on in this lighthouse, it didn't trip motion sensors. At least, it would seem that way to me but at the end of the episode the team seemed surprised and disappointed that none of their high-tech motion sensing gear got any results. Go figure.
There were some EVPs worth mentioning. When Dave & Steve were doing some EVP work there was a sound that seemed to distinctly be a little girl laughing, and the acoustics suggested it was an actual sound and coming from within the same room. There were a pair of EVPs that sounded very much like a male voice, although the actual words seemed mumbled.
The team seemed to think it was saying it didn't want/need their help and pointed out that the last time they had visited they had the opposite experience, hearing what appeared to be a voice calling, "help me". They neglected to mention that the original voice seemed to be female while this new voice seemed very obviously male, so — always assuming these are actual voices and not just tape distortions — it should be clear they are two completely different people.
Additionally, at one point Kris asked if anyone was there with her and everyone supposedly heard, "yes" on the tape. Maybe my ears are failing me but on this one I just heard tape hiss, smooth and even all the way through the supposed answer. The team held this up as an example of an "intelligent" haunting, interacting with a living person. I hold it up as an example of a typical EVP: worthless. That is why I do want to stress that the child laughing and the man mumbling are indeed very impressive because they actually sound like there's no chance it's just a distortion of some kind.
Still, keep in mind that in no way rules out a living person's voice, either unintentionally captured or through deliberate trickery. At the time Kris caught her EVP Jay & Grant asked if she was alone and she answered that she was. She wasn't, we saw camera footage of her — she had a crewmember with her. TAPS consistantly leaves crewmembers out of their calculations when they try to determine who was where when a piece of evidence was captured, and that always makes me overly cautious — especially about a whispered, "yes".
Speaking of crewmembers, yet another sound guy had an experience. A sound guy named Steve said he felt something brush up against his leg, then go through it and then he felt something akin to an electrical discharge. He said this was his first paranormal experience.
What bothers me about this is that, while it may be entirely genuine, it strikes me that a crewmember having their own "experience" goes a long way to selling the show and if I was a savvy producer I might pay a little bonus out to a crewmember here and there; Jay & Grant wouldn't even have to know about it. I'm not saying this has actually happened, I'm sure Steve really did experience something, but from where I'm sitting if an eyewitness account isn't good enough then the eyewitness account of someone who works for the production company isn't going to impress me in the least, although TAPS seems to think a great deal of it.
The most impressive piece of evidence caught was on a thermal they had pointing up towards the top of the lighthouse. At one point during the recording a hot spot travels through mid-air, across the opening in the center of the lighthouse, from the circular staircase to a landing. One of the things I love best about the St. Augustine Lighthouse isn't just the curious evidence captured, but rather the actual lighthouse design because it severely limits how a person can move through it while simultaneously being very open. This makes it virtually impossible for some trickster to be hiding out and remain undiscovered and it also helps to rule out some human contamination — for instance we can rule out someone jumping across the gap in the center of the lighthouse, so it had to be something else.
Most interesting is that they got the production company's tape, which is something I've always thought they should be reviewing but never actually saw them show any interest in, and synched it up with the timestamp on the thermal. Around the same time the anomaly appears on the thermal Grant points up and excitedly points out something he sees.
Overall I would say this wasn't as impressive as the original St. Augustine investigation, although there was definitely some evidence captured that isn't easily explained and that puts this investigation above most. What stands out most in my mind though was the thought that went into the new equipment (trying to do a better job investigating, which is commendable) and the accompanying short-sightedness which cancels it out. One of these days, TAPS will get their act together… but not today.
Filed under Ghost Hunters, Posts by Logisti
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Comments on GH: St. Augustine Revisit »
Shawn @ 7:01 pm
My biggest beef with this episode was right from the start they're going into this investigation with the wrong attitude. Rather than say, "Let's go back there and see if we can't figure out what it was that we were seeing the first time", they say, "Let's see if we can get more solid evidence!" I find this approach to be totally alien to what TAPS stood for in the first season. They're setting out to prove a haunting, not disprove, which is exactly the opposite of what Jason always says: "If you set out to prove a haunting, anything will seem like evidence. If you set out to disprove it, you will end up with only those things you can't explain away!" (this is taken directly off of the back of his new book, by the way).
At no point did they really seem to be debunking anything. Rather it was more like a literal "ghost hunt", with them trying to sneak up the stairs and catch this thing on video. I never once heard them trying to figure out what could be causing them to see something moving up the stairway - no theories, no attempts at recreating anything…nothing! This episode, to me, only proved how far the show has drifted since it's newfound success.
By the way, my wife and I stopped off and visited the St. Augustine lighthouse while driving to Disney World just a few months ago. After climbing to the top, I talked to one of the employees there, an older gentleman who had been working there for around 20 years or more. I asked him if he had ever seen or heard anything during his long tenure, that might suggest paranormal activity, to which he laughed and said, "Nope, not a thing." It was my impression that prior to the GH episode there was little to no talk of it ever being haunted, at least not from his vantage point.
Shawn
Deziree @ 2:16 am
I do not agree with the "beef" on this episode because there was no need to try to recreate anything it was impossible to recreate it obviously there were members on the stairs when they were hearing the noise and when they chased after it the door at the top was padlocked so how could something have gotten out they felt they had to reason to try to debunk it. Honostly think about it. I believe they find something the first time of course they are wanting to grab some more evidence that is what ghost hunting is all about now i know they go to try to disprove hauntings and to me jason and grant are the realist out there in the ghost hunting world because they aren't trying to fake anything they find or don't find.
Deziree
Dave @ 9:32 am
Well, the lighthouse episodes were fun, but nothing there to suggest ghosts, in my opinion. Considering the tall, hollow structure with lots of metal in it (staircase), I’m only surprised they didn’t hear more sounds similar to voices. A little wind whips around it and “voila” ghostly sounds all over the place. Also, the winding staircase and railings are bound to create lots of shadows. A light moves a millimeter as it settles on its tripod, and, viola, you see a shadow move.
Shawn, ….. I’m not to surprised the employee didn’t mention seeing ghosts as he’s probably quite aware of, and used to, any natural sounds and shadow effects.
– Dave
Shawn @ 7:39 pm
Deziree - My point was that there semmed no effort to come in and debunk anything from their previous trip, or even much of what they were seeing in this episode either.
And that's been my problem with the direction the show has taken as of late (something I think a lot of people reading these blogs will agree), it seems they've strayed away some from debunking, while at the same time they seem to be finding a lot more activity than they did during the first season. Personally, I think the series is becoming more and more like "Most Haunted" with each passing season.
By the way, did anyone notice how they caught that figure on the FLIR in this episode and didn't seem to think much of it? It's seems to have become so mundane to them to be finding figures and shadows each week that they don't really give a second glance.
I also can't help but think that the "head and shoulder" silhouette seen in the thermal image closely mirrors another "head and shoulder" silhouette - namely the one seen in the third season episode in Massachusetts (I think) where the guy who shot himself in the head was supposedly haunting this woman and her child. Anyone else notice that? What do you want to bet they have some cardboard standee of Captain Picard they lug with them to bring out whenever they need something on the thermal? LOL
Shawn
Dave @ 8:45 pm
A cardboard standee of Captain Picard? ….. hmmmmmm? Marilyn Monroe might work better?
Actually, I'm sure it's not to hard to find shadows resembling something, like cloud watching — there's a rabbit, there's an elephant, there's a face.
Yes, it did look like a previous shot I recall with something sitting motionless in a chair. Captain Picard in the dark.
I couldn't figure out what that head and shoulders shot was. As I recall, they just showed a freeze frame of the shot. Did they try to reduplicate it - not that I saw. There's a rectangular board, or somehing there - couldn't exactly figure out even what that was because they didn't show us, but the board isn't in the shot with the figure, as I recall, and it should have been. Maybe the freeze frame was even of a different window? Who can say?
– Dave
Shawn @ 9:13 pm
Dave,
I found the links where the Capt. Picard standee makes his cameos:
First, the link to the St. Augustine revisit (go to about the 1:47 mark):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfzSiLkD2-Y
Now, for the Athol, MA episode (go the 5:01 mark to get a clearer look): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1DPsv0CzkM&feature=related
Notice how in each clip, the "torso" doesn't move at all, but is perfectly still and, to me, looks to be about the same shape as the one in the St. Augustine episode. Nothing concrete granted, but something I find oddly similar.
What do you think?
Shawn
Stephen @ 11:09 am
Shawn and Dave,
I think that the "standee" you're referring to is named Jason. It's been well-documented that the Harrington House episode you're referring to is in fact Jason's reflection:
http://www.skepticalviewer.com/2007/11/08/harrington-home-ma/#comment-389
My guess is that this time it's Jason's shadow, and that the background isn't actually a window. Grant says, "That's the window, right there, and there's something standing in front of it." If it's the window, why does it show up as a bright square on the FLIR, when presumably it's colder outside? Notice that when Jason kneels down in front of the (real) window later, it shows up as a dark square in the background, as one would expect.
Also notice there's a second apparition on the left, which appears to have something in its hand about the right size to be the FLIR screen!
The apparition appears to be absolutely still. That's because we're looking at a freeze frame. Remember, Jason always waves the camera around as though he were watering the lawn with a garden hose, so anything we see on FLIR is going to be slowed down or a freeze frame.
My guess is that there's a source of infrared light behind Jason and Grant and that they're casting a shadow on the far wall. The "window" is the reflected light coming out of the hallway, and the "apparition" is Jason.
Dave @ 11:15 am
Shawn, ….. Well, the St. Augustine figure could just be the rectangular board clipped, because of distortion in the reading from a brighter background (diffraction), to look rounded off (shoulder), and the head just a slight mar on the wall. Put them together and you get head and shoulders.
The figure in the chair could be just the chair and something behind it lined up that looks a bit like a head. The camera moves around a lot, in that shot, and they should have tried to duplicate it from the same angle, but instead they sit in the chair and try their best to deliberately match it up, rather than trying to debunk it.
The cut-out Pickard idea sounds interesting, but probably not necessary?
– Dave
Dave @ 5:27 pm
Stephen,….. Right, could just be a reflection of Jay and/or Grant in both cases. One thing I don't get is why is the FLIR picture green in the first shot (and supposed light window shape) but pink in the other shot (and black window) when they try to compare it with Jason's body? Anything they pick up that FLIR could be a reflection if there's a surface to reflect off.
Yes, "Jason always waves the camera around as though he were watering the lawn with a garden hose". Another thing is that I’m sure the TAPS team has no idea how the equipment actually operates, and don't seem to care as long as they get something they can't figure out - pretty amateurish. I’ve never tried using a FLIR type camera, and I can’t judge too well what’s going on, but at least we do know about the reflection effect.
– Dave
Shawn @ 6:24 pm
Stephen - I think you hit the nail on the head! I didn't even think about it being Jason's shadow, nor the fact that they would be freeze framing the FLIR shots for effect (and being a filmmaker myself, I should have). It seemed odd to me that they captured this (what looks to me) identical silhouette that comes off as being perfectly still twice now.
I prefer your "Jason's shadow" theory much more so than my "Captain Picard Standee" idea, especially since it doesn't point to any "monkey business" (to use one of Grant's terms) by the TAPS group. Good call.
The only thing though is in the St. Augustine Revisit episode Grant notes that the "head & shoulders" appear to only be about four and a half feet tall. Are they saying this is another one of those, what I like to call, "Phantasm" ghosts (named after the short little brown "Jawa" like ghouls that ran around in the film) which they also said of the apparitions they supposedly caught at Eastern State, Waverly Hills, and the Moon River Brewery?
Shawn
Shawn
Dave @ 7:51 pm
Re: Shorty Ghosts (FLIR Reflections)
Well, when you you look in a big mirror, from 15 feet away, what do you see? - right, a smaller version of you then you'd see from 2 feet away. The relection looks small because of the distance you are away from what you're being reflected off of. Jason is a big guy, but we see a smaller version of Jason.
– Dave
Dave @ 8:57 pm
Re: Shorty Ghosts (FLIR Reflections)
Added Note:
The lower you put the camera, the lower the reflected image appears to be at that position on the mirror. It looks like they generally hold the FLIR camera at gut level.
– Dave
Shawn @ 9:51 pm
That sounds about right. Oh, well - there goes my "Captain Picard" theory right out the window. LOL
Shawn
Dave @ 6:26 pm
I thing I'll have your Cap'i'tano Pickard idea for my own show — TRAPS - Ghost Blunderers.
Still, the shows do amuse me so I guess I'll keep watching them.
– Dave
Dave @ 9:45 pm
PK TRICK
This may be out of context, but can anyone figure out how this PK trick might have been accomplished?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5NwRfMJgOQ&feature=related
– Dave
Dave @ 9:56 pm
Re: PK Trick - Think I just figured a way.
Mercury — if you put your hand towards a blob of mercury (like what’s used in thermometers) the blob will move away from your hand (body heat). When the blower was on I suspect that the heating element was off. This appears similar to another trick where they were rolling around cigarettes and cigar tubes. Will you find this “how to do it” trick on the net? Well, I never have, but I’m sure it will work by folding in a smear of mercury. The guy might also have been using a heating element off camera. Like to see the guy do it with my set up.
– Dave
Mary @ 6:02 pm
What bothered me most about this episode is that it seemed to me they broke one of their "rules". Why was Kris alone in the lighthouse? How did she got stuck in that little room, there is a shot of her inside the room (obviously the cameraman is in there with her). Then, he gets out and leaves her there? And, the chair is not by the window when Jay and Grant find her. I've always heard them say, noone goes alone.
Logisti @ 6:41 pm
I think the cameraman stayed outside the room (at least most of the time) and he just stuck the camera in through the hole where she crawled through. In order to get that shot, the cameraman needed to get right up to the wall, so he moved the chair out of the way so he could get right up to it and lean in.
I'm pretty sure that's what happened, and I find it humorous to note that Jay & Grant have what seems to be a little staged scene where they walk right past the area Kris is in without noticing here — the cameraman was with her the whole time and couldn't be that hard to spot.
Stephen @ 2:55 am
I have to give TAPS props for using a Faraday cage. Now if they would add a backup recorder to the mix and compare them correctly, their "evidence" might actually add up to something! Not necessarily something compelling, but still something. I'm afraid it doesn't sway me much toward EVPs, but it's good to see TAPS trying to eliminate a source of error.
I'm going to make a prediction, though. I'll bet that we never see the Faraday cage again– or at least this season.
Dave @ 11:10 am
Re: Kris in the little room - alone.
There's a back shot, at one point, so the camera would have needed to be in the little room to get that angle. So, I'm wondering, how did the camera guy get in and out?
Anyway, no question the whole thing was, for the most part, staged.
– Dave
bill kelly @ 7:34 pm
I have a question for you debunkers.
in the early episodes, jay always seems to say "i hate calling a place haunted" and "you're always going to have skeptics"
the skeptics, as with this post, are getting better at their debunking. so since TAPS know about sites like this, why arent they being more cautious with their evidence? what they used to do as compared to now (never leaving anyone alone) and going in to debunk rather than finding more evidence?
Andy was a decent debunker and on GHI he continues to debunk things. could GH be slacking because of people they've lost? i read that people left TAPS because of travel yet 3 are now on GHI. then i read jay/grant got too hard to work for. jay was on larry king a few months ago. makes me wonder. if travel is too much, why go overseas?
seems like TAPS has gone too commercial and though sites like this can easily debunk their findings, dont care cause they're popular. its one thing to say "ghost dont exist" but you guys have proof TAPS is failing fast. and as i just posted somewhere else, i'm noticing more proof, thanks to this site, that these guys arent as true as i thought
CrowTRobot @ 11:05 am
Unfortunately, most GH viewers don't know or care about sites like this. They watch, believe or don't, then move on to "Most Haunted" and "Paranormal State". I also suspect the GH producers decided they needed more 'evidence' to compete with MH and PS. It comes under the heading of 'dumbing down'. Oh, and I'm afraid we'll be adding GHI to that list.(the face in the photo?!?!?)
But think about it: The mere thought of ghosts existing is debateable. Then you get MH and PS carrying on conversations with them?……every show?….too much.
I think that's what I liked about GH. They could usually find real reasons for certain events/feelings. But when they couldn't debunk, it was much more interesting….
…although I could do without all the personnel drama.
Andy O @ 4:56 pm
I couldn't believe it when they showed that face in the photo. I mean seriously, I would have laughed if they showed me that as evidence.
Ghost Hunters has changed since the first season. In season 1 they actually had cases where no evidence was found through debunking. Since then it seems that every show has something. It would be nice to have access to the unedited tapes to see how much they actually debunk. My guess is that will never happen.
daverobertss@yahoo.com @ 12:41 pm
i have been examining Ghost Hunters (Taps) video footage of their shadow man who is caught on camera twice on their first visit to St Augustine Lighthouse in Florida. Although i do trust them, i believe i have found a way to duplicate footage to show what appears to be shadow men. Why not try this out for yourselves!
Use a standard camcorder with or without night vision, if you have night vision switch it off & use an independent infra red light source at a good distance away from the camera you are using. (or none at all works excellently) Now if you utalise a light source that is illuminating a light colored wall for instance, & the light source is directly behind the person you wish to be portraid as a shadow person, you end up with what appears to be a full blow solid apparition of a shadow man which shows no features what so ever, all you see is a black mass in the shape of a human figure, an ultra violet light works extremly well for this purpose.
At, or near the top of the lighthouse there is a motion detector & if anything comes within its sensor range it gets triggered off & the internal lights come on. Well interestingly enough the shadow man is caught on camera at the top of the lighthouse but the motion detector does not get triggered. Now how can anyone prevent this from happening if they wanted to recreate this? Well if you shine a light source or a torch directly on a motion detector you render it blind, you can stand in front of the sensor for as long as you like without it being triggered & even when you remove the light source from the sensor it takes a while before the sensor re-activates.
Now footage of a light is seen at the very top & appears above & behind the shadow man, now it would take two people to recreate this, one posing as the shadow man & another to direct a beam of light at the motion detector when required. Wouldn't be interesting to find out if the light that is seen at the top of the lighthouse corresponds with the positioning of the motion detector!
When Jason & Grant were in the lighthouse & they said they could hear full blow convesations being heard of a man and a child, and a man and a woman. Strange then there is no EVP's being picked up on their audio recording devices to back up their claim, however saying that, on camera there are sounds that sound like what they claim to hear.
Plus - Help me! can be heard at one point, to me it sounds like a pre-recorded voice played on a small hand held recording/playback machine.
The video footage of the shadow man on the staircase, it looks like that the night vision camera appears to be turned off in this sequence - i have already mentioned what happens when you turn off the night vision in this scinario, so why was it turned off?
Now i am not trying to debunk the debunkers, i am just giving my personal version of what can be done if i wanted to juice things up for the ratings.
muchgooder @ 12:44 pm
I appreciate the work that many have done to debunk this show. However, I think you only need to look at what is fact to figure out that these guys are dishonest. They figured out that if they pretend to be skeptics and debunk a few things that they will get some cred with some viewers. The proof is in the pudding - I've written my own thoughts on the show at this link but here are a few observations that I've had:
http://www.muchgooder.com/Home/Adam.nsf/LookupContentByKey/debunking_ghost_hunters
For me, the use of the K2 meter is all that you need to know to see that these guys are dishonest. First, as with the other tools, there is not a shred of evidence to believe that electromagetic fields are proof of supernatural presence. They are EVERYWHERE. More importantly, in many episodes they think that something is answering them back through the K2. In the Mill episode they asked many yes or no questions. If this were on the up-and-up, wouldn't you sit there all night asking questions? Maybe try to get a name? How about what is on the other side? No, instead they ask how many bald guys there are and move on. Huh? The whole point of your show is to find something that is irrefutable. They have the one piece of something that would go a long way to doing that (if it were real) and they move on? Geez, they (allegedly) spend countless hours going over tapes!